Saints fans jailed

[John B]

The sentences do seem harsh but in terms of a detterent they are just what was needed. In recent years hooliganism has once again grown and it's only tough action such as this that will make the hoodlums think twice. If in future derbies there is less trouble then you'll be grateful that the courts took this action.

 

Dont forget the 2018 World Cup is up for grabs and we dont want football violence to harm our chances

[up and away]

One simple question. Are any of us going to feel safer at St Marys next season knowing that these 12 guys, who weren't know to Hampshire police as trouble makers, are behind bars?

 

The sentences by comparison are extremely harsh and the police should have kept the Pompey fans in St mary's for at least 45 minutes after full time, as we had to suffer at Fratton park. But the reason for these sentences are because of the past history of mass football violence and why the government insists upon it being eradicated early. When you have trouble on this scale it is virtually impossible for a police force to control the situation and we have clearly seen in the past horrific personal injuries and financial damage. Because football violence on this scale is so difficult to control, the authorities bring the full force of the law to bear to attempt to keep this to a minimum. This is how football violence was reduced to next to nothing previously. It's the same laws and penalties, just several have forgotten because it was so long ago.

 

Now anyone who has not figured that out by now has to pay the price for not thinking more than their actions!

[Thedelldays]

lol at this thread..

 

a bunch of numbnuts have gone to prison for a few months....big deal..

 

maybe next time..instead of frothing at the mouth when we play pompey...they will go straight home (if they are even allowed in SMS)

[Noodles34]

One simple question. Are any of us going to feel safer at St Marys next season knowing that these 12 guys, who weren't know to Hampshire police as trouble makers, are behind bars?[/quote

 

Err, a couple that I know are serious trouble makers mate, the father and son, Steve and Cameron Jordan, very well known indeed. I spoke to Steve after the incident before the arrrests and the way he said it was the way it looked, a bit of fence shaking and a few things thrown (from both sides it has to be said), he didn't think it was much, guess he was wrong!

Anyone know what happened to the Skates who were throwing stuff?

[wagon 84]

Anyone know what happened to the Skates who were throwing stuff? Nothing

No surprise there really as the ob are only targeting our lot.

Does anyone know yet why the ob let the skates out the same time as us yet?

[docker-p]

There is no justice in those sentences. If they had raped someone they would have got less. Absolutely ridiculous. Good luck to them, i hope they appeal

[alehouseboys]

Anyone know what happened to the Skates who were throwing stuff?

 

I'm sure their pictures will be plastered all across the local papers shortly as it's been pointed out things were being thrown in both directions. And that skate that was caught throwing the firework at the Police...wow is he in the sh............

 

The local OB and the courts have certainly set the bar now for football hooligans, all those nawty 657 are gonna have to watch their step now they're back in the unruly lower leagues.

[Pecho Lobo]

I haven't read the whole thread just parts so not sure if this has been pointed out yet. Violent disorder is , in the scheme of public order offences a serious matter and is one down from riot. That I suspect is the reason for the sentences which would be entirely in line with sentencing guidelines for this offence. It is not a question of just being abusive but far more serious than that, and the group element is a major part of the offence.It is the behaviour of the group taken together using or threatening unlawful violence etc. There is no point in comparing it to any other criminal offence (driving etc) since the sentence would be in accordance with guidelines for violent disorder and it is the elements of this offence that are relevant.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

lol at this thread..

 

a bunch of numbnuts have gone to prison for a few months....big deal..

 

maybe next time..instead of frothing at the mouth when we play pompey...they will go straight home (if they are even allowed in SMS)

 

That's a surprise, Delldays coming on a thread, disagreeing with something, trying to get a reaction.

 

I suggest you find a hobby, or a girlfriend, it might give you a new sense of being.

[docker-p]

I haven't read the whole thread just parts so not sure if this has been pointed out yet. Violent disorder is , in the scheme of public order offences a serious matter and is one down from riot. That I suspect is the reason for the sentences which would be entirely in line with sentencing guidelines for this offence. It is not a question of just being abusive but far more serious than that, and the group element is a major part of the offence.It is the behaviour of the group taken together using or threatening unlawful violence etc. There is no point in comparing it to any other criminal offence (driving etc) since the sentence would be in accordance with guidelines for violent disorder and it is the elements of this offence that are relevant.

But the few the OB managed to get shouldn't have to serve a day or two for all those the OB couldn't get, which appears the case. This is banana republic justice. You can tell the Tories are back at the helm

[LGTL]

Isn't it strange how the Police let us all out at the same time, and then have had people sent to jail for a year for pushing a fence. It looks like they got what they wanted anyway.

[alehouseboys]

I haven't read the whole thread just parts so not sure if this has been pointed out yet. Violent disorder is , in the scheme of public order offences a serious matter and is one down from riot. That I suspect is the reason for the sentences which would be entirely in line with sentencing guidelines for this offence. It is not a question of just being abusive but far more serious than that, and the group element is a major part of the offence.It is the behaviour of the group taken together using or threatening unlawful violence etc. There is no point in comparing it to any other criminal offence (driving etc) since the sentence would be in accordance with guidelines for violent disorder and it is the elements of this offence that are relevant.

 

Well officer, why wasn't everyone present that day arrested? Both sets of fans were as guilty as each other for the "threat". And you really should have locked up TCWTB years ago, particularly for p*ssing on our seats.

 

And...why did you let them out at the same time?

[trousers]

[Ponty]

Isn't it strange how the Police let us all out at the same time, and then have had people sent to jail for a year for pushing a fence. It looks like they got what they wanted anyway.

 

They were given what they wanted! That's the whole point. No one, not the police or anyone else, made them throw sh*t and grab at the fence, etc. That was their choice.

[100%Red&White]

They were given what they wanted! That's the whole point. No one, not the police or anyone else, made them throw sh*t and grab at the fence, etc. That was their choice.

 

If that IS the reason they let everyone out the same time then the Police took a mighty gamble as it could have resulted in innocent people getting caught up in serious violence.

 

They got lucky both sets of fans couldn't break through a wire fence and a dozen Saints fans were snapped throwing stones/rattling fences. I guess they got lucky.

[BridgnorthSaint]

Are you saying that them losing their jobs, having their lives turned upside down, children having their parents taken away is an acceptable punishment for throwing a fookin coin?

 

You seriously are retarded.

 

Yep - If I was the judge I'd have added a public flogging - They are a disgrace to our club

[wagon 84]

yep - if i was the judge i'd have added a public flogging - they are a disgrace to our club

 

t.w.a.t

[warsash saint]

If that IS the reason they let everyone out the same time then the Police took a mighty gamble as it could have resulted in innocent people getting caught up in serious violence.

 

They got lucky both sets of fans couldn't break through a wire fence and a dozen Saints fans were snapped throwing stones/rattling fences. I guess they got lucky.

 

I agree that on reflection it was probably a stupid idea for the Police to let everyone out at same time BUT I assume the Police has to weigh up whether the Skates would cause more trouble keeping them in & trashing the place like they did last time.

[Turkish]

Yes, because all the yobs now know where they stand. Behave or go to jail.

 

I am not talking about 'all the yobs' are our strets a safer place because becuase these guys are in jail. Also do you think it is right that a few fall guys, not known to police, not know to the courts as 'hooligans' are hung out to dry so 'all the yobs' as you put it know where they stand? The stand out one for me was the guy who got a year for grabbing the fence and shouting aggresively. **** me, i've shouted aggresively at football a few times myself, we best watch our step next season or there'll be plenty more year jail terms and 6 year bans dished out if this is the benchmark for violent disorder

[dune]

I am not talking about 'all the yobs' are our strets a safer place because becuase these guys are in jail. Also do you think it is right that a few fall guys, not known to police, not know to the courts as 'hooligans' are hung out to dry so 'all the yobs' as you put it know where they stand? The stand out one for me was the guy who got a year for grabbing the fence and shouting aggresively. **** me, i've shouted aggresively at football a few times myself, we best watch our step next season or there'll be plenty more year jail terms and 6 year bans dished out if this is the benchmark for violent disorder

 

I refer you back to the previous comment. Seriously 99.99% of fans go to the football for a laugh and visiting different towns and cities and enjoying meeting people from them is what it should be all about. In the 50's and 60's Saints fans used to watch Pompey and vice versa. That is what it's all about. All these yobs that have attached themselves to clubs are not how it was and they are not how it should be. It's time to move on and grow up.

[Daren W]

As a footnote to all of this, has anyone questioned the police in all of this? Amongst all the pro and con of this debate, has anyone suggested the police hold an inquiry as to why, on a hotly contested, top graded local derby, the police saw fit to let home and away fans mingle out side the ground?

People are in prison, now will the police be held accountable for their incompetence?

[dune]

As a footnote to all of this, has anyone questioned the police in all of this? Amongst all the pro and con of this debate, has anyone suggested the police hold an inquiry as to why, on a hotly contested, top graded local derby, the police saw fit to let home and away fans mingle out side the ground?

People are in prison, now will the police be held accountable for their incompetence?

 

Letting the Pompey fans out at the same time was the right thing to do. Why should innocent Pompey fans be made to walk through St Marys to their cars stood out like sore thumbs because the bulk of the crowd had dispersed?

[Pedro]

So prisons can't be bursting at the seams or the Government directive about not jailing burglars etc is bullsh**t otherwise these would have got community service, suspended sentences or something similar.

 

Claus got a drug offence lingering, didn't do his drink driving rehab and in court for assaulting a woman, got a £500 fine. The judge said it didn't concern him af jobs and families were affected and yet when sentences are considered these factors are usually taken into account, totally OTT.

 

The OB didn't try to stop what happened, just wanted it to start so they could film it, get some convictions and brownie points. All this could have been avoided and the whole of the garage could have been fenced off so that the re-directed fans couldn't shortcut across the forecourt.

[Turkish]

I refer you back to the previous comment. Seriously 99.99% of fans go to the football for a laugh and visiting different towns and cities and enjoying meeting people from them is what it should be all about. In the 50's and 60's Saints fans used to watch Pompey and vice versa. That is what it's all about. All these yobs that have attached themselves to clubs are not how it was and they are not how it should be. It's time to move on and grow up.

 

and a lot of people shout aggresively, they had better sleep with their shoes on if shouting aggresively is violent disorder.

[Turkish]

Letting the Pompey fans out at the same time was the right thing to do. Why should innocent Pompey fans be made to walk through St Marys to their cars stood out like sore thumbs because the bulk of the crowd had dispersed?

 

You really are clueless. Morally maybe it was but for safety of the public was it? If it was why does every derby in the country, including the ones at Fratton Park in 04-05, keep away fans in? Maybe in your world everyone walks the streets holding hands and swaps scarves and kisses each other on the cheek whilst congratulating their rivals on their win and the other side wishing them better luck next time. But, as is becoming quite evident, you dont live in the real world.

[Turkish]

As a footnote to all of this, has anyone questioned the police in all of this? Amongst all the pro and con of this debate, has anyone suggested the police hold an inquiry as to why, on a hotly contested, top graded local derby, the police saw fit to let home and away fans mingle out side the ground?

People are in prison, now will the police be held accountable for their incompetence?

 

No, but they should be. I'd also add that the echo should be taken to task for glamourising it. Headline news now on 7 occasions since the day of the derby. If it wasn't for the echo glorifying the incident it would have long been forgotten. I also get the impression the police were hoping for something to happen, they even had a BBC film crew following them around on the day FFS!!! Interesting that the police at first descirbed it as a job well done and they kept trouble to a minimum yet now they have got their headlines and convictions they stopped a riot. Amazing what a few headlines can do.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

As a footnote to all of this, has anyone questioned the police in all of this? Amongst all the pro and con of this debate, has anyone suggested the police hold an inquiry as to why, on a hotly contested, top graded local derby, the police saw fit to let home and away fans mingle out side the ground?

People are in prison, now will the police be held accountable for their incompetence?

 

I believe that people should email the IPCC and question this.

 

Someone needs to be held accountable from the police force for making the decision to let fans out at the same time.

[trousers]

I believe that people should email the IPCC and question this.

 

Someone needs to be held accountable from the police force for making the decision to let fans out at the same time.

 

Perhaps they thought that football fans were clever enough not to start fighting with other football fans.....oh....

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Perhaps they thought that football fans were clever enough not to start fighting with other football fans.....oh....

 

Would you say that someone should be held accountable for that very foolish decision to let Southampton and Portsmouth fans out at the same time? It was not hard to predict what was going to happen. This is why every other single *hostile derby in the country uses this tactic, without exception.

 

What is it they say about assumptions being the mother of all f*ck-ups?

[dune]

You really are clueless. Morally maybe it was but for safety of the public was it? If it was why does every derby in the country, including the ones at Fratton Park in 04-05, keep away fans in? Maybe in your world everyone walks the streets holding hands and swaps scarves and kisses each other on the cheek whilst congratulating their rivals on their win and the other side wishing them better luck next time. But, as is becoming quite evident, you dont live in the real world.

 

You're the one that is looking for angles to shift the blame away from the thugs. Morally it was the right course of action - why should the thugs dictate when fans leave a stadium? In the safety of the public it was the right course of action - why should normal pompey fans be exposed to feral thugs by being forced to walk through St marys when the bulk of the crowd had dispersed? Your whole stance on this is in favour of the criminals and I applaud Hampshire Constabulary for putting the general public first.

[trousers]

Would you say that someone should be held accountable for that very foolish decision to let Southampton and Portsmouth fans out at the same time? It was not hard to predict what was going to happen. This is why every other single *hostile derby in the country uses this tactic, without exception.

 

What is it they say about assumptions being the mother of all f*ck-ups?

 

I agree that it was a somewhat strange move by the police given the inability of some human beings to walk from A-to-B without getting involved in some aggro but it's a sad indictment on 'Great' Britain today when some people appear to be looking at the police as the root cause here when in fact the root cause is some human beings being incapable of avoiding conflict.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I agree that it was a somewhat strange move by the police given the inability of some human beings to walk from A-to-B without getting involved in some aggro but it's a sad indictment on 'Great' Britain today when some people appear to be looking at the police as the root cause here when in fact the root cause is some human beings being incapable of avoiding conflict.

 

The police have a duty to protect the public from all forms of criminal activity, including public disorder.

 

Of course it is the fault of the individuals for the disorder, but on a much more serious scale, it is the fault of the police for allowing it to happen though bad policing decisions.

 

They need to be held accountable for that in the same way that the individuals jailed have been held accountable for their actions.

[Turkish]

I agree that it was a somewhat strange move by the police given the inability of some human beings to walk from A-to-B without getting involved in some aggro but it's a sad indictment on 'Great' Britain today when some people appear to be looking at the police as the root cause here when in fact the root cause is some human beings being incapable of avoiding conflict.

 

FFS!!!!! No one is saying that!!! Should thye have done it? - no. Are they responsible for their actions? - yes- did they deserve to be punished for being stupid? yes. were the sentances over the top? - yes, could the whole thing have been avoided if the police had done what every other police force and every other derby in everyother town does? - yes. So none of this need never happen if the police had shown common sense and for that they need to be held accountable, as have the guys that commited the so called violent disorder.

[trousers]

FFS!!!!! No one is saying that!!! Should thye have done it? - no. Are they responsible for their actions? - yes- did they deserve to be punished for being stupid? yes. were the sentances over the top? - yes, could the whole thing have been avoided if the police had done what every other police force and every other derby in everyother town does? - yes. So none of this need never happen if the police had shown common sense and for that they need to be held accountable, as have the guys that commited the so called violent disorder.

 

Fair point

[Gorgiesaint]

I believe that people should email the IPCC and question this.

 

Someone needs to be held accountable from the police force for making the decision to let fans out at the same time.

 

The police have a duty to protect the public from all forms of criminal activity, including public disorder.

 

Of course it is the fault of the individuals for the disorder, but on a much more serious scale, it is the fault of the police for allowing it to happen though bad policing decisions.

 

They need to be held accountable for that in the same way that the individuals jailed have been held accountable for their actions.

 

Spot on. In the same way, they have to operate for rules of entrapment for various offences - it was a crazy decision to let both sets of fans out at the same time given what had happened in the game. Saints fans were held in for 45 minutes at their last visit to fartton, why? Because it was the right thing to do. The same should have applied here. Whoever made the decision has to be made accountable for some poor decision making, in the same way that these individuals have now been made accountable for their actions.

[SET]

Point still stands. Had they gone home like the rest of us rather than try to goad the ob and Pompey. They would not now be in prison, only themselves to blame.

[dune]

FFS!!!!! No one is saying that!!! Should thye have done it? - no. Are they responsible for their actions? - yes- did they deserve to be punished for being stupid? yes. were the sentances over the top? - yes, could the whole thing have been avoided if the police had done what every other police force and every other derby in everyother town does? - yes. So none of this need never happen if the police had shown common sense and for that they need to be held accountable, as have the guys that commited the so called violent disorder.

 

The police have nothing to be held accountable for. They did their job and they did it well. The fact that the innocent Pompey fans were able to blend in with the crowds and safely get to their cars without sticking out like sore thumbs is a credit to the operation.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

The police have nothing to be held accountable for. They did their job and they did it well. The fact that the innocent Pompey fans were able to blend in with the crowds and safely get to their cars without sticking out like sore thumbs is a credit to the operation.

 

I am sure the lady who had her car vandalised as she was leaving would have a different opinion of that.

 

Also, I think you forget that they let the Portsmouth fans out then held them in Britannia Road and did not let them go on their way, only very few women/families were allowed out of the corden. So with respect Dune, you are talking rubbish.

[saintjay77]

FFS!!!!! No one is saying that!!! Should thye have done it? - no. Are they responsible for their actions? - yes- did they deserve to be punished for being stupid? yes. were the sentances over the top? - yes, could the whole thing have been avoided if the police had done what every other police force and every other derby in everyother town does? - yes. So none of this need never happen if the police had shown common sense and for that they need to be held accountable, as have the guys that commited the so called violent disorder.

 

I agree with all of that but just to make a point. The Sentances were pretty good when you consider they were looking at a maximum of 5 years inside. The charges while technically correct were probably on the extreme side and im sure there could have been different charges used that would have carried a lower sentance.

 

As for letting them out at the same time or not, I guess they thought that after investing in a fence to seperate the fans it made sense to them to use it by letting them out together. If they wanted to let them out seperatly I doubt they would have put the fence up and just shepparded them into the ground then then just left them for an hour befole letting them on there way. Just a guess mind as I dont know if a fence has been put up elsewhere and staggered exits used or not.

 

Either way, Saints v poopy is always going to be a game under the spot light and the OB were always going to try to be seen as being tough on Football related crime so they were bound to get a result in there mind. Makes anyone that stepped over the line a little more stupid IMO as it was not as if it wasnt expected.

[dune]

I am sure the lady who had her car vandalised as she was leaving would have a different opinion of that.

 

Also, I think you forget that they let the Portsmouth fans out then held them in Britannia Road and did not let them go on their way, only very few women/families were allowed out of the corden. So with respect Dune, you are talking rubbish.

 

No Stu, i'm not talking rubbish. The incident with the grown "men" picking on a middle aged woman only serves to illustrate the people the police are dealing with and you could extraoplate that single incident to multiple incidents had the yobs been given the opportunity to "get at" more pompey fans. If these lowlifes were prepared to vent their irrational anger on a middle aged woman one can only assume they would have taken it one step further against a man.

 

Ask yourself this:

 

Should the priority of the police be to protect the feral louts from themselves or to protect the inocent public from the feral louts? Any rational person would support the latter and therefore the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time so they had a chance of blending in with the dispersing crowd.

 

Thankyou for bringing this incident to mt attention as it only serves to illustrate the point I was making.

[Sour Mash]

I agree with all of that but just to make a point. The Sentances were pretty good when you consider they were looking at a maximum of 5 years inside.

 

No they weren't. You yet again show how little you know about this subject.

[100%Red&White]

There were plenty of vids on the web just after the derby showing both sets of fans acting in a 'threatening' manner, the one that appears most is probably as the skates came out of Southampton Central. They were constantly trying to break out of the police cordon and, I think I remember correctly, at least one was arrested for throwing a firework at a Police horse. Yet all the Police cameras appear to have been solely pointed at Saints fans.

 

For what these Saints fans have gone down for surely a number of skates should have faced similar justice?

[Turkish]

No Stu, i'm not talking rubbish. The incident with the grown "men" picking on a middle aged woman only serves to illustrate the people the police are dealing with and you could extraoplate that single incident to multiple incidents had the yobs been given the opportunity to "get at" more pompey fans. If these lowlifes were prepared to vent their irrational anger on a middle aged woman one can only assume they would have taken it one step further against a man.

 

Ask yourself this:

 

Should the priority of the police be to protect the feral louts from themselves or to protect the inocent public from the feral louts? Any rational person would support the latter and therefore the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time so they had a chance of blending in with the dispersing crowd.

 

Thankyou for bringing this incident to mt attention as it only serves to illustrate the point I was making.

 

Dune, i saw the incident you are talking about, i was there, i am on the you tube clip walking past the car, i saw the grown 'men' picking on middle aged women. You dont have a clue what you are talking about. It was ONE man, this man was told to **** off by people round him and stop being a *****, all Saints fans, the car allowed to pass through the crowd without any further hassle. Would that happen in Portsmouth? I would put my mortagage on it that it wouldn't.

 

As for your comment about the Pompey fans being allowed to blend in with the crowd, do you really believe that there weren't just as many pompey fans who would have been up for a ruck if they'd be allowed too? Do you really believe that the Pompey fans would just go on their merry way, the fans mingling and chatting to each other with gay abandon? If you really think that after the game one of the firecest rivalries in English football would result in a love in as they all walked home together then you dont live in another planet you live in another universe.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

We should make Dune incharge of Hampshire Constabulary.

 

By his opinions, we wouldn't need a police force, apart from arresting people. Because at the end of the day, it's not up to the police to prevent disorder. lol

[Turkish]

You're the one that is looking for angles to shift the blame away from the thugs. Morally it was the right course of action - why should the thugs dictate when fans leave a stadium? In the safety of the public it was the right course of action - why should normal pompey fans be exposed to feral thugs by being forced to walk through St marys when the bulk of the crowd had dispersed? Your whole stance on this is in favour of the criminals and I applaud Hampshire Constabulary for putting the general public first.

 

Well why bother having police at all? just let everyone out together, in fact, do away with segregation too and ticketing, let everyone just turn up and all sit together. What happens happens. Why let a simple thing like safety get in the way.

[dune]

Well why bother having police at all? just let everyone out together, in fact, do away with segregation too and ticketing, let everyone just turn up and all sit together. What happens happens. Why let a simple thing like safety get in the way.

 

During the 50's and 60's there was no segregation. The police and the government need to look back to then to solve the yob problem. National Service is the answer imo.

[SFKA South Woodford]

Surely this should work both ways then, by your logic, the 2000 of us that were at Fratton in 2004 have had our civil liberties curtailed illegally by Hampshire police. Should we launch a joint action against them?

 

I'm a normal Saints fan, who has no interest in violence, and yet I was kept locked in that sh*thole along with over 1900 other decent law abiding Saints fans because the police were in your estimation cow towing to their feral thugs. We then stood out like sore thumbs to their thugs when leaving that pit, and those that used the train to get to the game, were subjected to a multitude of things being thrown at them and verbal abuse from people whose houses and flats were passed on the way back to the station, the police even knew where those people lived, yet were any of them arrested, no.

 

I take exception to excessive sentencing and erosion of our civil liberties in this country, especially with police incitement at mass protest events for which offences have been recategorised and sentences stiffened, protest is a civil right and one of the things that my grandparents generation were willing to lay their lives on the line to protect, and yet you can now get a stiffer sentence for exercising that right than you can for mugging an old lady. There were even arrests made at the countryside alliance march, and that was supposed to have consisted of nothing more than the cream of and most polite and mild mannered in society.

[saintjay77]

No they weren't. You yet again show how little you know about this subject.

 

No of course your right. 5 years would have been so much better than 1 year.

 

Violent disorder

Title: Public order

Offence: Violent disorder

Legislation: Section 2 Public Order Act 1986

Commencement Date:

Mode of Trial: Either Way

Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty: 5 years

 

Get back in your box FFS

[saintjay77]

There were plenty of vids on the web just after the derby showing both sets of fans acting in a 'threatening' manner, the one that appears most is probably as the skates came out of Southampton Central. They were constantly trying to break out of the police cordon and, I think I remember correctly, at least one was arrested for throwing a firework at a Police horse. Yet all the Police cameras appear to have been solely pointed at Saints fans.

 

For what these Saints fans have gone down for surely a number of skates should have faced similar justice?

 

I think it sucks that some from the poopy lot were not also charged with similar offences but im guessing that being the minority group may have had something to do with it?

[saintjay77]

Well why bother having police at all? just let everyone out together, in fact, do away with segregation too and ticketing, let everyone just turn up and all sit together. What happens happens. Why let a simple thing like safety get in the way.

 

Some of that works in Rugby.