Saints fans jailed

[Sour Mash]

Are you thick?

 

The £30,000 of damage was not caused by just these 12 people you mong. That is the TOTAL, many of these are going to jail for simply throwing a coin and causing NO criminal damage. Look through the charges when they are released and see how many charges relate to criminal damage.

 

And most of the damage was caused by smashed windows on the cars caused by Skates throwing rocks into the garage.

 

Exactly.

 

As I said on here a few months ago (and had no nothing idiots trying to disagree with me), these lads would be hammered with completely disproportionate sentences to the crime. It people misbehave at football, by all means arrest and punish them, but this is clearly politically driven to make a point and is therefore grossly unfair. Best wishes to the lads and families concerned.

[wild-saint]

NO sympathy. regardlesss of who they support anyone that is prepared to throw coins, wood, hubcaps etc at another person and gernerally behave inappropriately at an event that has been attended by children is in my opinion a scumbag and desrves no sypathy. It may be harsh but I bet they wont do it again. There were another 31k + people that could restrain thier behavior despite any provocation that may have occured. Sorry but I have no sypathy for those involved.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I'll say it before and I say it again, you will see worse on a night out in town...

 

As previous posters have said, if they were on a 'last warning' then fair enough, but if they were swept up 'in the moment' and had no previous, this does seem very very harsh.

[Turkish]

To be honest, it sounds like they deliberately went to find the Portsmouth fans(so it was planned for a start) and then they started ripping bits off cars and throwing them... no, they deserved it.

 

and if the police had shown a bit of common sense and kept the pompey fans in like they odo at evey derby the area would have been cleared and none of this would have happened. OB covering their arses. And it wasn't planned, if it was they'd have been charged with conspiracy.

[Smirking_Saint]

But a little child wasn't blinded. I don't get your point.

 

Your just being pedantic.

[SO16_Saint]

how anyone can condone criminal damage, violence etc is beyond me.

 

if these people were popey fans you would be saying it wasn't long enough.

 

If they have, as someone said above, lost their jobs, houses, kids for a year - good.

 

Will teach them a leson, you hope, and they wont darken our doorway again. thugs.

[Hatch]

Although prison is extremely harsh, to get involved despite the fact they were hundreds of coppers stood around and being filmed makes them pretty effing stupid.

[StuRomseySaint]

I wonder if the police are now going to be subject to an enquiry as to why they let P*mpey out at the same time as Saints... because it was a direct result of their policing which contributed to this happening.

 

If they had kept skates in and cleared the area ( like happens in every other derby match ) then there would have been NO trouble.

 

They had the resources to do this and they decided against it... surely someone at the police force also needs to be held accountable?

[toofarnorth]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8230528.Fans_jailed_after_derby_match_violence/

[dune]

NO sympathy. regardlesss of who they support anyone that is prepared to throw coins, wood, hubcaps etc at another person and gernerally behave inappropriately at an event that has been attended by children is in my opinion a scumbag and desrves no sypathy. It may be harsh but I bet they wont do it again. There were another 31k + people that could restrain thier behavior despite any provocation that may have occured. Sorry but I have no sypathy for those involved.

 

This. When we played Leeds a few years back and they started throwing hot dogs and plastic bottles it was not a safe environment of children. What if amongst those items someone had thrown a dart and it'd lodged in the head of a child?

[Saintandy666]

and if the police had shown a bit of common sense and kept the pompey fans in like they odo at evey derby the area would have been cleared and none of this would have happened. OB covering their arses. And it wasn't planned, if it was they'd have been charged with conspiracy.

 

So it's the police's fault the people decided to try and chuck car bits and wood at each other, not theres?! That's like saying when a murder happens, it's the polices fault for not being at the scene. I disagree, people have to take responsibility for their own actions and as someone said earlier on, 31,000 other people managed to do it fine.

[Turkish]

So if a year is too harsh what is an appropriate punishment?

 

3 year football bans, heavy fines or comunity service. Not saying having been found guilty you should not be punished but this is way over the top and smacks of a political agenda.

[Dan Johnson]

Pretty clear message isnt it. If you don't want to get done, don't be tit in the first place. No sympathy.

[Smirking_Saint]

I wonder if the police are now going to be subject to an enquiry as to why they let P*mpey out at the same time as Saints... because it was a direct result of their policing which contributed to this happening.

 

If they had kept skates in and cleared the area ( like happens in every other derby match ) then there would have been NO trouble.

 

They had the resources to do this and they decided against it... surely someone at the police force also needs to be held accountable?

 

That i do agree with, whether the men deserved their sentances or not, it was a bit of a f*ck up by the police who could have handled it much better.

[Turkish]

So it's the police's fault the people decided to try and chuck car bits and wood at each other, not theres?! That's like saying when a murder happens, it's the polices fault for not being at the scene. I disagree, people have to take responsibility for their own actions and as someone said earlier on, 31,000 other people managed to do it fine.

 

I didnt say that, but but why let them out at the same time? Tensions were running high, letting them out at the same time was asking for trouble. They keep them in at other derbies why not this one? Whilst people are responsbile for their own actions the police are there to prevent disorder as well as catch people who have commited a crime. Its almost like they let it happen, lots of them stood around filming while the 'riot of freeborn was carried out. If they have prevented the flashpoint in the first place by keeping the skates in then none of it would have happened. You wouldn't give a peadophile a packet of sweets, let him hang around a school with the police filming him then when he did something arrest him months later for it.

[yorkiesaint]

Come on, every one of those guys knows how he could have avoided those sentences, if only they'd engaged their brains like the other 30,000 in the stadium. and we shouldn't judge the length of individual sentences until it is clear what they are. They are not going down for throwing a coin, they are going down for going to a match with the intent of causing trouble, and then getting caught in the act. The pre-meditation is the central point.

[Saintandy666]

I didnt say that, but but why let them out at the same time? Tensions were running high, letting them out at the same time was asking for trouble. They keep them in at other derbies why not this one? Whilst people are responsbile for their own actions the police are there to prevent disorder as well as catch people who have commited a crime. Its almost like they let it happen, lots of them stood around filming while the 'riot of freeborn was carried out. If they have prevented the flashpoint in the first place by keeping the skates in then none of it would have happened. You wouldn't give a peadophile a packet of sweets, let him hang around a school with the police filming him then when he did something arrest him months later for it.

 

Yes, but they still did it and responsible people should be able to control their actions, therefore they should still serve the sentence.

[saintjay77]

You were doing fine until the bit in bold. A decent citizen is by my definition also a law abiding person. Wrecking the property of that Car dealer, even in the heat of the moment, is not the actions of a decent citizen.

 

Have to agree with this.

 

Getting carried away with a bunch of fans that are looking to "start something" with the opo fans doesnt mean they are imune from any pnnishment.

 

The punishment may seem harsh compared to similar acts away from football but football related crimes have been under the microscope for years so people can hardly be suprised when tougher sentances are dished out.

 

I know plenty of "Decent Citizens" that went to the game and simply walked away after. It may come as of a suprise to some but the Police were not interested in them at all!!!

[MarkSFC]

Without knowing all the charges and having not witnessed any of the behaviour the punishments do seem on the face of things a little over the top. Without knowing individual records either you can't make a fair judgement.

Anti-social behaviour, agression and violence should not be condoned regardless of the circumstances. Every citizen has the right to feel safe and expect offenders to be punished. This must fit the crime as well.

If I "only threw a coin" (which will be classed as a weapon and the act of throwing I'm sure will be coupled with intent to harm) I would accept appropriate punishment if caught.

 

In a civilised society this is the least to expect.

 

If you break the law you deserve to be punished BUT it must be fair.

[dune]

I didnt say that, but but why let them out at the same time?

 

99% of those in attendance went home/down the pub after the game. We're talking about a tiny minority who chose to engage in vandalism. It's my view that the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time because it's the polices civic duty to protect the public and by holding the Pompey fans in it would have made them sitting ducks when they made their way to their cars when everyone else had vacated the vicinity.

[Turkish]

But a little child wasn't blinded. I don't get your point.

 

exactly, the story isn't accurate, no scene from baveheart mentioned, no 95 year old men or pregenant women running for their lives.

[StuRomseySaint]

So it's the police's fault the people decided to try and chuck car bits and wood at each other, not theres?! That's like saying when a murder happens, it's the polices fault for not being at the scene. I disagree, people have to take responsibility for their own actions and as someone said earlier on, 31,000 other people managed to do it fine.

 

Yes it is the polices fault.

 

Of course the individuals need to be held accountable, but with PROPER policing, it could have been prevented, ask who Freeborn blame... the 12 that got jailed or the police for not preventing it... I'm pretty sure I know what their answer will be.

 

The police had a duty to protect innocent fans and local property and businesses... they failed massively. That's what they were paid to do... someone needs to be held accountable in the police.

[Matthew Le God]

I'm not in jail for events on 13th February 2010. Why is that?

 

After the final whistle I was disappointed to lose to our rivals but I walked out of the Kingsland stand and walked home. Didn't even watch events unfold. It really wasn't hard to do.

[stevegrant]

To be honest, I've generally got very little sympathy for those involved - firstly, the surveillance is magnified at derby games; secondly, Maze Hill should have been a reminder that, rightly or wrongly, football-related disorder is generally treated with much harsher sentences than you would expect for similar crimes in "normal" life; thirdly, regardless of the harshness (or otherwise) of the sentence, they've still broken the law and as such can expect to be penalised for doing so if caught.

 

That said, the entire situation would probably have been avoided had the police done what is normally done for derby games, i.e. keep the away fans in the ground until the home crowd has dispersed. One might even speculate that they may have set up such an incident in the hope of nabbing a few "faces" and in order to justify the expense of policing the game (even though it's covered by the club).

[Sour Mash]

Come on, every one of those guys knows how he could have avoided those sentences, if only they'd engaged their brains like the other 30,000 in the stadium. and we shouldn't judge the length of individual sentences until it is clear what they are. They are not going down for throwing a coin, they are going down for going to a match with the intent of causing trouble, and then getting caught in the act. The pre-meditation is the central point.

 

Er no, they are being sent down for throwing a coin, "pre-meditation" has nothing to do with the sentencing. HTH and all that.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8230528.Fans_jailed_after_derby_match_violence/

 

Still searching for people?!?

[StuRomseySaint]

99% of those in attendance went home/down the pub after the game. We're talking about a tiny minority who chose to engage in vandalism. It's my view that the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time because it's the polices civic duty to protect the public and by holding the Pompey fans in it would have made them sitting ducks when they made their way to their cars when everyone else had vacated the vicinity.

 

Why does EVERY SINGLE other police force keep fans in during derby games then?

 

F*cking hell Dune, is your Surname Pointon??

 

The police f*cked up big time, yet a cynic could also say that they intended on making arrests and it was intentional letting skates out at the same time.

[dune]

The police had a duty to protect innocent fans and local property and businesses... they failed massively.

 

Didn't the vandals have a duty somewhere in all this?

[Give it to Ron]

It's my view that the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time because it's the polices civic duty to protect the public and by holding the Pompey fans in it would have made them sitting ducks when they made their way to their cars when everyone else had vacated the vicinity.

 

Well if everyone had vacated the vicinity who would of made them sitting ducks??

I know of one of those lads - first offence threw a coin and is now going to jail.

Silly sod - don't condone it at all- but lets agree none of this would of happened if the police hadn't let them out at the same time.

[Turkish]

99% of those in attendance went home/down the pub after the game. We're talking about a tiny minority who chose to engage in vandalism. It's my view that the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time because it's the polices civic duty to protect the public and by holding the Pompey fans in it would have made them sitting ducks when they made their way to their cars when everyone else had vacated the vicinity.

 

As apposed to letting them out at the same time when they were sitting ducks? They could have held them in, cleared the area surrounding and then escorted them back, you know like they do to us at Fratton Park, like they do in all othe local derbies. Letting them out was asking for trouble.

[SO16_Saint]

Yes it is the polices fault.

 

Of course the individuals need to be held accountable, but with PROPER policing, it could have been prevented, ask who Freeborn blame... the 12 that got jailed or the police for not preventing it... I'm pretty sure I know what their answer will be.

 

The police had a duty to protect innocent fans and local property and businesses... they failed massively. That's what they were paid to do... someone needs to be held accountable in the police.

 

you do talk a lot of ****.

 

This country is turning into (turned?) a blame culture. It's always someone elses fault, never mine.

 

So a group of imbeciles decide to have a running fight, cause £30k damage throwing coins, hub caps etc and it's the police's fault.

 

Did the police throw the items? no.

Did they force them to act like idiots? no.

 

These people dont deserve any sympathy for this. they need to grow up.

[Sour Mash]

99% of those in attendance went home/down the pub after the game. We're talking about a tiny minority who chose to engage in vandalism. It's my view that the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time because it's the polices civic duty to protect the public and by holding the Pompey fans in it would have made them sitting ducks when they made their way to their cars when everyone else had vacated the vicinity.

 

Away fans are kept in while home fans are dispersed at every single major derby in the country. Why do you think that is?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

99% of those in attendance went home/down the pub after the game. We're talking about a tiny minority who chose to engage in vandalism. It's my view that the police did the right thing in allowing the Pompey fans out at the same time because it's the polices civic duty to protect the public and by holding the Pompey fans in it would have made them sitting ducks when they made their way to their cars when everyone else had vacated the vicinity.

 

When I went to Fratton when we lost 4-1, I was kept in after the match I got home perfectly alright....I'm with SRS on this one, they should have been kept in, end of.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

This. When we played Leeds a few years back and they started throwing hot dogs and plastic bottles it was not a safe environment of children. What if amongst those items someone had thrown a dart and it'd lodged in the head of a child?

 

Lol

[Smirking_Saint]

Why does EVERY SINGLE other police force keep fans in during derby games then?

 

F*cking hell Dune, is your Surname Pointon??

 

The police f*cked up big time, yet a cynic could also say that they intended on making arrests and it was intentional letting skates out at the same time.

 

Yes, IMO the police should be held accountable, if it was intentional then however thought of the ill thought sting operation was a good idea should equally be charged for inciting violence or something.

 

Equally, if it was not intended to do so, someone should be held accountable for not doing a good enough job.

 

Saying the men shouldn't be charged however is crazy, the fact that they were being filmed and watched by the police at the same time of putting peoples public safety at risk that had no intention of being involved in violence makes them f*cking idiotic and deserving of a sentance (even if a year is a tad harsh)

[dune]

Why does EVERY SINGLE other police force keep fans in during derby games then?

 

F*cking hell Dune, is your Surname Pointon??

 

The police f*cked up big time, yet a cynic could also say that they intended on making arrests and it was intentional letting skates out at the same time.

 

They did the right thing. It's my view that the priority of the police should be the protection of the innocent and by letting the Pompey fans out at the same time it allowed innocent Skates that wanted no part in the trouble to zip up their jackets and get to their cars safely. If they'd been held in for 30 minutes they'd stand out like sore thumbs. Your whole stance is in favour of the vandals, try thinking about the law abiding majority for a second.

[SO16_Saint]

Lol

 

something funny?

[saintsub]

Justice has been done - well done the Judge in this case. I see little point in anyone trying to justify the indefencible. I have no sympathy for thugs and buffoons who behave like animals. Enjoy your porridge chaps.

[100%Red&White]

Why does EVERY SINGLE other police force keep fans in during derby games then?

 

F*cking hell Dune, is your Surname Pointon??

 

The police f*cked up big time, yet a cynic could also say that they intended on making arrests and it was intentional letting skates out at the same time.

 

Exactly the same Police force that feels it's right to not only keep Saints fans inside the ground for an hour when we go down there but also hold back our trains so many of us don't even get into their sh*thole until half way through the first half. Ridiculous decisions by the authorities but I don't think they see it that way.

[dune]

When I went to Fratton when we lost 4-1, I was kept in after the match I got home perfectly alright....I'm with SRS on this one, they should have been kept in, end of.

 

I was there too and for those on the coaches or on the trains they had an escort, but for those who had driven in their cars it created the potential for innocent people to have their heads kicked in.

[OldNick]

' A THUG who attacked a teenager at a Winchester bar has been given a 12-month suspended sentence.

 

Winchester Crown Court Thug escapes jail after attack in Winchester

 

##########, punched Southampton student ######## as he was leaving Bar 3One in The Square in the early hours of Good Friday last year.

 

A jury convicted ###### of carrying out the attack, which left his 18-year-old victim with a fractured nose and eye socket. He also had to have a metal plate inserted into his face.

 

Judge #r, CBE, described the attack as a 'malicious assault'.

 

He said: “You will know that courts are very worried about the number of outbreaks of violence late at night.

 

“So I have a duty to send a message out that people who behave violently on the streets of Winchester need to be taught a lesson.

 

“The sentence is suspended so that you have the opportunity to show me that you can live for the next two-years without committing any other offences.”

 

#, claimed he acted in self-defence.

 

# was ordered to do 150 hours unpaid work and pay his victim £1,200 in compensation. His 12-month sentence was suspended for two years. '

 

 

I copy an example why I believe the sentences were harsh, now it could be said that the judge was too soft of course.

[StuRomseySaint]

you do talk a lot of ****.

 

This country is turning into (turned?) a blame culture. It's always someone elses fault, never mine.

 

So a group of imbeciles decide to have a running fight, cause £30k damage throwing coins, hub caps etc and it's the police's fault.

 

Did the police throw the items? no.

Did they force them to act like idiots? no.

 

These people dont deserve any sympathy for this. they need to grow up.

 

You keep mentioning the £30,000 of damage.

 

How many of them where charged with criminal damage?

 

How many of them were having a 'running fight' , if so, who with and how many punches where thrown?

 

What were the police BEING PAID FOR BY SFC?

 

Was it to prevent trouble or to just nick anyone causing trouble? Or both?

[Turkish]

This. When we played Leeds a few years back and they started throwing hot dogs and plastic bottles it was not a safe environment of children. What if amongst those items someone had thrown a dart and it'd lodged in the head of a child?

 

Oh brilliant, lets start sentancing on what ifs, when you drive at 80 on the motorway, what if you hit someone and kill them, death by dangerous driving for you, not because of what you did, but what if....

[SO16_Saint]

You keep mentioning the £30,000 of damage.

 

How many of them where charged with criminal damage?

 

How many of them were having a 'running fight' , if so, who with and how many punches where thrown?

 

What were the police BEING PAID FOR BY SFC?

 

Was it to prevent trouble or to just nick anyone causing trouble? Or both?

 

so these people were arrested, charged, found guilty and sentenced for ...... doing nothing?

[Smirking_Saint]

Oh brilliant, lets start sentancing on what ifs, when you drive at 80 on the motorway, what if you hit someone and kill them, death by dangerous driving for you, not because of what you did, but what if....

 

There is a difference between this and acting reckless. And it all depends on the situation.

[StuRomseySaint]

so these people were arrested, charged, found guilty and sentenced for ...... doing nothing?

 

Violent Disorder was their charge, not criminal damage. Which can be as simple as shouting 'C'mon you fakkin c*nts!!!' when in a group.

[OldNick]

They did the right thing. It's my view that the priority of the police should be the protection of the innocent and by letting the Pompey fans out at the same time it allowed innocent Skates that wanted no part in the trouble to zip up their jackets and get to their cars safely. If they'd been held in for 30 minutes they'd stand out like sore thumbs. Your whole stance is in favour of the vandals, try thinking about the law abiding majority for a second.

 

I saw a lot of Pompey fans who able to walk safely to their vehicles without having to hide their colours. That is how it should be, if this harsh sentence makes it be more likely to happen then I will accept that the law is correct. I await until the zimmer frame mob come down this season. They are gearing up to send down fans who dont normally turn up, if the rumours are true ( i know we have heard it all before, and the police will be ready). I hope the police are filming these people and make an example of those who are traveling intentionally looking for trouble

[corky morris]

And David Laws steals £40k plus from the state & we have to hear the tories & liberals brand him 'an honourable man'. The punishment does not fit the crime for these lads. There is absolutely no coincidence that these lot have been convicted in a world cup year! I dont condone what they have done, but to use £30k of damage as some kind of justification is plain wrong IMHO.

[StuRomseySaint]

There is a difference between this and acting reckless. And it all depends on the situation.

 

Are you suggesting that driving above the speed limit ( say 50 in a 30 past a school at kicking out time ) is not reckless? You would still only get 3 points on your license and a slapped wrist because although something worse could have happened, it didn't.

[SO16_Saint]

Violent Disorder was their charge, not criminal damage. Which can be as simple as shouting 'C'mon you fakkin c*nts!!!' when in a group.

 

seems like they got away lightly:-

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/violent_disorder/