Saints fans jailed

[Sour Mash]

No of course your right. 5 years would have been so much better than 1 year.

 

Violent disorder

Title: Public order

Offence: Violent disorder

Legislation: Section 2 Public Order Act 1986

Commencement Date:

Mode of Trial: Either Way

Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty: 5 years

 

Get back in your box FFS

 

I know the highest sentence possible is 5 years. That in know way makes their sentences "good" or "lucky". You do not understand how sentencing works. God knows why you post on this thread.

[saintjay77]

I know the highest sentence possible is 5 years. That in know way makes their sentences "good" or "lucky". You do not understand how sentencing works. God knows why you post on this thread.

 

When the maximum sentance is 5 years and they only got 1 I would say they got off fairly lightly. That doesnt take much understanding IMO.

 

They were unlucky to be charged with Violent Disorder for on the face of it, doing not allot.

 

I dont know why I have to explain almost everyone of my posts to you but if you really want me to get off "your" thread just ask. This being a Saints Forum and me being a Paid member and a Saints fan I thought I have every right to post and give my opinion. I am not trying to state anything as fact but trying to be objective. If you have a problem with that then hit the ignore button and feck off. x

[Turkish]

When the maximum sentance is 5 years and they only got 1 I would say they got off fairly lightly. That doesnt take much understanding IMO.

 

They were unlucky to be charged with Violent Disorder for on the face of it, doing not allot.

 

I dont know why I have to explain almost everyone of my posts to you but if you really want me to get off "your" thread just ask. This being a Saints Forum and me being a Paid member and a Saints fan I thought I have every right to post and give my opinion. I am not trying to state anything as fact but trying to be objective. If you have a problem with that then hit the ignore button and feck off. x

 

Or alternatively they could have done away with the drama and expense of a crown court trial and put it through magistates where the maximum is 6 months

 

Arrest and Punishment

‘Violent disorder’ is triable either way although it will usually be tried on indictment. It carries a maximum sentence of 5 years on indictment or 6 months before magistrates and is therefore an “arrestable offence”. At a trial on indictment, a jury will usually have the alternative option of convicting the defendant of the lesser offence of threatening behaviour (Section 4 of the act).

 

Or they could have given them a threatening behaviour charge which according to the above a jury usually have the option of. Not quite so dramatic in the media that though is it.

[Rowan Gorilla 5]

We need to blame someone or something for all of this. I know, authority. It must be the collective faults of the police, the CPS and the courts that all of this happened and a number of unfortunate innocents were wrongly convicted and given grossly disproportionate sentences for what they were wrongly convicted for in the first instance. Outrage. Why isn't the criminal justice system more like Minority Report? That would sort it. Wouldn't it? Oh no, innocent until proven guilty isn't it? Back to the drawing board then.

 

I seriously don't know what some people expect. How are the police meant to totally prevent large-scale public disorder? If disorder does take place then the police are wrong to arrest those they catch in the interests of fairness because some others got away? It's wrong that these same people are then found guilty even though evidence and the letter of the law suggests that they are? It's wrong that custodial sentences of roughly 12 months each are handed out because a murderer might get away with 14 years?

 

They broke the law. They were caught. They were found guilty. They were punished.

 

Lucky they don't live in certain other countries where the police are slightly more hands on and a little less accountable and the sentences passed down by the courts just a bit sterner.

[Sour Mash]

We need to blame someone or something for all of this. I know, authority. It must be the collective faults of the police, the CPS and the courts that all of this happened and a number of unfortunate innocents were wrongly convicted and given grossly disproportionate sentences for what they were wrongly convicted for in the first instance. Outrage. Why isn't the criminal justice system more like Minority Report? That would sort it. Wouldn't it? Oh no, innocent until proven guilty isn't it? Back to the drawing board then.

 

I seriously don't know what some people expect. How are the police meant to totally prevent large-scale public disorder? If disorder does take place then the police are wrong to arrest those they catch in the interests of fairness because some others got away? It's wrong that these same people are then found guilty even though evidence and the letter of the law suggests that they are? It's wrong that custodial sentences of roughly 12 months each are handed out because a murderer might get away with 14 years?

 

They broke the law. They were caught. They were found guilty. They were punished.

 

Lucky they don't live in certain other countries where the police are slightly more hands on and a little less accountable and the sentences passed down by the courts just a bit sterner.

 

Ha ha, some of you oddballs seriously crack me up

[Fan The Flames]

We need to blame someone or something for all of this. I know, authority. It must be the collective faults of the police, the CPS and the courts that all of this happened and a number of unfortunate innocents were wrongly convicted and given grossly disproportionate sentences for what they were wrongly convicted for in the first instance. Outrage. Why isn't the criminal justice system more like Minority Report? That would sort it. Wouldn't it? Oh no, innocent until proven guilty isn't it? Back to the drawing board then.

 

I seriously don't know what some people expect. How are the police meant to totally prevent large-scale public disorder? If disorder does take place then the police are wrong to arrest those they catch in the interests of fairness because some others got away? It's wrong that these same people are then found guilty even though evidence and the letter of the law suggests that they are? It's wrong that custodial sentences of roughly 12 months each are handed out because a murderer might get away with 14 years?

 

They broke the law. They were caught. They were found guilty. They were punished.

 

Lucky they don't live in certain other countries where the police are slightly more hands on and a little less accountable and the sentences passed down by the courts just a bit sterner.

 

 

In response to your first point innocent people have been found guilty hundreds of times or the guilty have been given disproportionate sentences in our near perfect judicial system . On the other point no one disagrees with that, the whole point of this thread was the ridiculous custodial sentences these guys got.

[dune]

We need to blame someone or something for all of this. I know, authority. It must be the collective faults of the police, the CPS and the courts that all of this happened and a number of unfortunate innocents were wrongly convicted and given grossly disproportionate sentences for what they were wrongly convicted for in the first instance. Outrage. Why isn't the criminal justice system more like Minority Report? That would sort it. Wouldn't it? Oh no, innocent until proven guilty isn't it? Back to the drawing board then.

 

I seriously don't know what some people expect. How are the police meant to totally prevent large-scale public disorder? If disorder does take place then the police are wrong to arrest those they catch in the interests of fairness because some others got away? It's wrong that these same people are then found guilty even though evidence and the letter of the law suggests that they are? It's wrong that custodial sentences of roughly 12 months each are handed out because a murderer might get away with 14 years?

 

They broke the law. They were caught. They were found guilty. They were punished.

 

Lucky they don't live in certain other countries where the police are slightly more hands on and a little less accountable and the sentences passed down by the courts just a bit sterner.

 

Well said. I bet that the yobs will think twice before causing trouble at future derby games.

[Turkish]

Well said. I bet that the yobs will think twice before causing trouble at future derby games.

 

Just out of interest Dune, do you go to games?

[Rowan Gorilla 5]

In response to your first point innocent people have been found guilty hundreds of times or the guilty have been given disproportionate sentences in our near perfect judicial system . On the other point no one disagrees with that, the whole point of this thread was the ridiculous custodial sentences these guys got.

 

The sentences are not that ridiculous. Check out some of the sentences dished out for the Bradford, Burnley and Oldham riots. Officially large-scale violent disorder and not riots. Just because a repeat burglar gets a slap on the wrist does not mean that 14 months for shaking a fence in this context is over-zealous. It means that the slap on the wrist is too soft a punishment. Complain about that.

[dune]

Just out of interest Dune, do you go to games?

 

Yep.

[Turkish]

The sentences are not that ridiculous. Check out some of the sentences dished out for the Bradford, Burnley and Oldham riots. Officially large-scale violent disorder and not riots. Just because a repeat burglar gets a slap on the wrist does not mean that 14 months for shaking a fence in this context is over-zealous. It means that the slap on the wrist is too soft a punishment. Complain about that.

 

Would this be the riots where over 1000 people rioted, throwing firebombs, bricks etc, 300 odd coppers injured? That is exactly the same as a plastic chair and a few bottles tops and stones being thrown over a fence isn't it. I just despair of some peoples logic.

[Turkish]

Yep.

 

really? Did you go to the Pompey game?

[dune]

really? Did you go to the Pompey game?

 

Not missed a Derby in years. Carry on.

[Turkish]

Not missed a Derby in years. Carry on.

 

Of course, you could say anything on here and no one would know any different, anyway, do these derbies you've not missed in years include the ones at Fratton Park? You know, when Saints fans were kept inside for over an hour each time.

[dune]

Of course, you could say anything on here and no one would know any different, anyway, do these derbies you've not missed in years include the ones at Fratton Park? You know, when Saints fans were kept inside for over an hour each time.

 

Merrington was the boss at my first derby, and i've not missed one since, but of course I could say anything on here.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I was just up the pub, there was police outside, someone walked straight past them and into a pub and chopped some old grannys head off and casually walked back out the pub, stopping to shake a police officers hand on the way.

 

I don't blame the police for not stopping it, it's not their job after all, I blame the loon with the machete.

[Turkish]

Merrington was the boss at my first derby, and i've not missed one since, but of course I could say anything on here.

 

So obviously when Pompey rioted at Fratton Park you were angry that the police kept you in the ground after the game in 2004 and didn't let you out to blend into the crowd outside.

[Turkish]

I was just up the pub, there was police outside, someone walked straight past them and into a pub and chopped some old grannys head off and casually walked back out the pub, stopping to shake a police officers hand on the way.

 

I don't blame the police for not stopping it, it's not their job after all, I blame the loon with the machete.

 

I wonder what Dunes take of event in Chandlers Ford was a few years back, when police prevented an armed robbery using guns and shot one of the criminals carrying it out. In Dunes world they should have let the robbery take place, guns and all and stood by and filmed it and hope that the camera footage they recorded was enough to gain convictions at a later date. Rather than stopping it like they did of course. Why should bank robbers dictate to normal bank users when and where they can do their banking. What do you think of that Dune?

Edited 23 June, 2010 by Turkish

[JustMike]

We need to blame someone or something for all of this. I know, authority. It must be the collective faults of the police, the CPS and the courts that all of this happened and a number of unfortunate innocents were wrongly convicted and given grossly disproportionate sentences for what they were wrongly convicted for in the first instance. Outrage. Why isn't the criminal justice system more like Minority Report? That would sort it. Wouldn't it? Oh no, innocent until proven guilty isn't it? Back to the drawing board then.

 

I seriously don't know what some people expect. How are the police meant to totally prevent large-scale public disorder? If disorder does take place then the police are wrong to arrest those they catch in the interests of fairness because some others got away? It's wrong that these same people are then found guilty even though evidence and the letter of the law suggests that they are? It's wrong that custodial sentences of roughly 12 months each are handed out because a murderer might get away with 14 years?

 

They broke the law. They were caught. They were found guilty. They were punished.

 

Lucky they don't live in certain other countries where the police are slightly more hands on and a little less accountable and the sentences passed down by the courts just a bit sterner.

 

well said!

[Kingsland Nick]

The sentences seem inconsistent with earlier ones arising from the same "riot":

 

http://http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/5009132.Four_fans_in_court_following_derby_game/

FOUR fans involved in violent clashes during the Saints and Pompey FA Cup derby have today been given three-year football banning orders.

 

Daniel Poskitt, 21, from Sholing Road, Southampton, was charged with causing harrasment, alarm or distress contrary to Section 5 of the Public Order Act. He pleaded guilty and was fined £135 and handed a three year banning order.

 

The following were charged with fear or provocation of violence contrary to Section 4 of the Public Order Act.

 

Perran Maddern, 18, from Dairy Lane, Chichester pleaded guilty and was fined £200 and handed a three year banning order.

 

Mark Davis, 37, from Nightingale Grove, Southampton pleaded guilty and was fined £350 and handed a three year banning order.

 

David Michael Guy, 44, from Beverley Gardens, Bursledon pleaded guilty and was fined £367 and handed a three year banning order.

 

They appeared at Southampton Magistrates' Court with four others who were also charged with fear or provocation of violence.

 

Ashley Singh, 19, from Mandela Way, Southampton pleaded guilty and was fined £100.

 

Nick Singh Digwa, 29, from Mandela Way, Southampton pleaded guilty and was fined £150.

 

[and two who pleaded not guilty]

 

The Crown Prosecution Service is considering appealing the sentences handed to Digwa and Singh to the Crown Court, so they can be issued with football banning orders.

 

Does anybody know what this group actually did? Some of those jailed don't seem to have done much more than causing alarm or distress.

[JustMike]

Ha ha, some of you oddballs seriously crack me up

 

why? what exactly was "oddball" about the post you quoted?

 

Can't do the time etc etc

[Turkish]

well said!

 

NOt really, what he said is in fact a load of ********, because no one is saying they were innocent, no one is saying it is the collective fault of the CPS, police etc and someone needs to be blamed. What people are saying is that the sentances,for in one case, shouting aggresively, which carried 12 months, are massively over the top. What people have also said is if the hampshire police did what every other police force in the country and they themselves have done in in recent derbies and kept the away fans in the ground until the area was clear then the whole thing would have been avoided. Which it would have, undoubtedly.

[Ponty]

I wonder what Dunes take of event in Chandlers Ford was a few years back, when police prevented an armed robbery using guns and shot one of the criminals carrying it out. In Dunes world they should have let the robbery take place, guns and all and stood by and filmed it and hope that the camera footage they recorded was enough to gain convictions at a later date. Rather than stopping it like they did of course. Why should bank robbers dictate to normal bank users when and where they can do their banking. What do you think of that Dune?

 

Well I, for one, think you're reaching slightly. Not quite as far as DBP above but pretty far.

[BridgnorthSaint]

We all break the law everyday, have never done 38 mph in a 30 zone? how many men have never had a fight? Not many i know, let he who is without sin..... The point is these guys day by day are probably decent, law abiding citizens, but they acted stupidly and have been punished for thier actions in a ridiculously over the top way just so the government and Hants OB can be seen to make an example of people, best legal system in the world? It is if your a repeat offender, if are a nornmal bloke you cross the line just once though you are ****ed.

 

The point you appear to make is a good one - If you get caught committing a crime you must face the consequences. These people now have to face up to the consequences of their pathetic behaviour. If you don't want to go to prison then behave at the match. I am sick of people coming on this site and defending the actions of morons that get a sniff of the barmaids apron and want to fight the world. If you want to fight join the army they are looking for brave fighters, otherwise behave so that others can take their families to the match in safety.

[Turkish]

Well I, for one, think you're reaching slightly. Not quite as far as DBP above but pretty far.

 

Why? The police prevented that armed robbery. The police could- not saying would have, but COULD have prevented the scenes at Freeborn garage by keeping the pompey fans in, clearing the area then letting them out, like every other police force does. Both are crimes, one was prevented by the actions of the police, which were very brave and commendable, one was not prevented by the actions of the police, when it could have been. What is the difference?

[BridgnorthSaint]

In response to your first point innocent people have been found guilty hundreds of times or the guilty have been given disproportionate sentences in our near perfect judicial system . On the other point no one disagrees with that, the whole point of this thread was the ridiculous custodial sentences these guys got.

 

Are you implying that they were innocent?

[Gorgiesaint]

I was just up the pub, there was police outside, someone walked straight past them and into a pub and chopped some old grannys head off and casually walked back out the pub, stopping to shake a police officers hand on the way.

 

I don't blame the police for not stopping it, it's not their job after all, I blame the loon with the machete.

 

So if the police (on the guys way in) see that he has a machete & can see he's outraged by something, would you expect them to open the door for him, or do something to prevent him using his machete?

 

By the way - I agree that all of these people need to take personal responsibility for their actions so have no excuses. But the police also have a responsibility.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

So if the police (on the guys way in) see that he has a machete & can see he's outraged by something, would you expect them to open the door for him, or do something to prevent him using his machete?

 

By the way - I agree that all of these people need to take personal responsibility for their actions so have no excuses. But the police also have a responsibility.

 

Indeed, it was clearly very hostile and volatile before and during the P*mpey game, so it's the same thing.

 

Also, who the f*ck do the Cumbria police think they are? I understand they were blocking roads and making people stay indoors, simply because some loon was walking the streets killing people?

 

Who the f*ck do they think they are? What happened to our civil rights? Just because someone is running around killing people, the police shouldn't be stopping people going down the shop for a loaf of bread just incase he decides to shoot them.

 

It's a f*cking disgrace. I agree with Dune, rather than try and prevent innocent people getting caught up in it, they should have let people carry on with their normal everyday life.

 

I am writing an email to the IPCC RIGHT NOW

[Turkish]

So if the police (on the guys way in) see that he has a machete & can see he's outraged by something, would you expect them to open the door for him, or do something to prevent him using his machete?

 

By the way - I agree that all of these people need to take personal responsibility for their actions so have no excuses. But the police also have a responsibility.

 

Dune thinks they should open the door for him, why let machete wielding thugs ruin the day for non machete wielding thugs .....

[Ponty]

Pathetic, both of you.

 

You've gone beyond the point of reasonable argument here.

[View From The Top]

You'd have to be pretty feeble minded, or Stanley, not to be able to work out why the OB set up the fences, stood around with their video cameras and let everyone out at the same time.

 

Unfortunately for them they didn't nick any of those they wanted to get because they weren't dumb enough to kick off outside the ground.

 

Stupid idiots for getting involved but I don't believe they deserved jail time. Those that kicked that Yeovil fan in the head whilst he was out cold did!

[saintjay77]

Or alternatively they could have done away with the drama and expense of a crown court trial and put it through magistates where the maximum is 6 months

 

Arrest and Punishment

‘Violent disorder’ is triable either way although it will usually be tried on indictment. It carries a maximum sentence of 5 years on indictment or 6 months before magistrates and is therefore an “arrestable offence”. At a trial on indictment, a jury will usually have the alternative option of convicting the defendant of the lesser offence of threatening behaviour (Section 4 of the act).

 

Or they could have given them a threatening behaviour charge which according to the above a jury usually have the option of. Not quite so dramatic in the media that though is it.

 

I think your last point would probably have been more sensible but no matter which way it ended up I think there would still be debate about it.

 

The OB could have gone steaming in with battons and horses to split up the croud which would of no doubt caused a backlash as most fans there would have through it would be unnecisary and the OB's actions would have done nothing but agrivate the situation.

 

The press probably didnt help matters by dramatising things that bit more which may have left the OB thinking they had to make more of a statement.

 

But out of all of this the fact remains that the OB charged them as they did and in court when defended by Barristers they still ended up getting what we think are harsh punishments. What were there Barristers there for? Did they not point out that there clients did nothing more than shake a fence or shout angrily? Are they planning an appeal?

 

Although it looks harsh to us and a charge of threatening behaviour seems more reasonable to most, they cant get away from the fact that had they walked away like most others they wouldnt be in this situation.

[saintjay77]

I was just up the pub, there was police outside, someone walked straight past them and into a pub and chopped some old grannys head off and casually walked back out the pub, stopping to shake a police officers hand on the way.

 

I don't blame the police for not stopping it, it's not their job after all, I blame the loon with the machete.

 

Are you suggesting that had one of the saints fans involved was weilding a machette the OB would still have just sat back and filmed it?

[Turkish]

Pathetic, both of you.

 

You've gone beyond the point of reasonable argument here.

 

Not really Ponty, in your opinion prehaps, but i know looking at your posts you sit on the 'lock um up and throw away the key' side of the fence. Dunes comments were "why should the thugs dictate when fans leave a stadium? In the safety of the public it was the right course of action - why should normal pompey fans be exposed to feral thugs by being forced to walk through St marys when the bulk of the crowd had dispersed"

When it was suggest the police could have avoid the whole thing by not letting the Pompey fans out. So they COULD have prevented it if they had chose too, just like they chose to prevent the armed robbery in Chandlers Ford. Just because you dont agree with me does not make my views pathetic.

[saintjay77]

You'd have to be pretty feeble minded, or Stanley, not to be able to work out why the OB set up the fences, stood around with their video cameras and let everyone out at the same time.

 

Unfortunately for them they didn't nick any of those they wanted to get because they weren't dumb enough to kick off outside the ground.

 

Stupid idiots for getting involved but I don't believe they deserved jail time. Those that kicked that Yeovil fan in the head whilst he was out cold did!

 

 

If they wanted to catch a load of muppets having a ruck you would have thought they wouldnt have bothered putting up a fence to seperate them wouldnt you?

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Pathetic, both of you.

 

You've gone beyond the point of reasonable argument here.

 

The point is Mr Ponty ( I will call you Mr, because you are a Moderator ) , it is pretty obvious by simply keeping them in, as happens with every single other hostile game in the country, that trouble could have been prevented.

 

Do you agree or not?

 

The police where either stupid, or it was a sting ( which also went wrong ).

 

Which one do you think it was?

[Turkish]

I think your last point would probably have been more sensible but no matter which way it ended up I think there would still be debate about it.

 

The OB could have gone steaming in with battons and horses to split up the croud which would of no doubt caused a backlash as most fans there would have through it would be unnecisary and the OB's actions would have done nothing but agrivate the situation.

 

The press probably didnt help matters by dramatising things that bit more which may have left the OB thinking they had to make more of a statement.

 

But out of all of this the fact remains that the OB charged them as they did and in court when defended by Barristers they still ended up getting what we think are harsh punishments. What were there Barristers there for? Did they not point out that there clients did nothing more than shake a fence or shout angrily? Are they planning an appeal?

 

Although it looks harsh to us and a charge of threatening behaviour seems more reasonable to most, they cant get away from the fact that had they walked away like most others they wouldnt be in this situation.

 

If you read View from the Tops comments his BIL works for the FIU and the sentance were predetermined before the trial/guilty pleas, so their barristers were about as useful as trying to out out a bush fire with a tea cup full of water.

 

IMO i think a few cracks round the nut with a batton might make people think twice, that is what they do in Europe.

[Ponty]

I sit firmly on the "If they were stupid enough to do it front of police with cameras then they deserve what they get" side of the fence. I've not actually voiced an opinion about the length of the sentence, other than to say that it makes sentencing for more serious crime look pathetic by example, and I stand by all of that. What I haven't done is paint a patently ridiculous scenario then try and use it to justify the opinion that the OB are somehow responsible for the whole thing.

[dune]

I get the feeling that Turkish is just crying because the sentences have put a nail in the coffin of the feral yobs that attach themselves to football clubs. If there is less trouble at future derbies because the yobs fear imprisonment then good.

[Ponty]

If you read View from the Tops comments his BIL works for the FIU and the sentance were predetermined before the trial/guilty pleas, so their barristers were about as useful as trying to out out a bush fire with a tea cup full of water.

 

Except that the OB and CPS can only recommend a sentence, they cannot enforce or predetermine one. That's all on the judge.

[saintjay77]

If you read View from the Tops comments his BIL works for the FIU and the sentance were predetermined before the trial/guilty pleas, so their barristers were about as useful as trying to out out a bush fire with a tea cup full of water.

 

IMO i think a few cracks round the nut with a batton might make people think twice, that is what they do in Europe.

 

I might have missed that but I thought View From The Top said that the OB were going for a custodial sentance. Didnt see they had one agreed already. Isnt that illegal in its self? Surly any Barrister worth his salt would be able to get a case thrown out of court if he could prove the OB were acting a Judge and Jury before someone is even proven guilty in the court of law and all that?

[Turkish]

I sit firmly on the "If they were stupid enough to do it front of police with cameras then they deserve what they get" side of the fence. I've not actually voiced an opinion about the length of the sentence, other than to say that it makes sentencing for more serious crime look pathetic by example, and I stand by all of that. What I haven't done is paint a patently ridiculous scenario then try and use it to justify the opinion that the OB are somehow responsible for the whole thing.

 

I have NEVER said the OB are responsbile, look back through my posts on this subject. What i have said numerous times and i'll say it again now is

1/ The people involved were silly to do so

2/ They deserve to be punished, having been found guilty

3/ Their sentances were way over the top- again using 12 months for shouting aggresively as an stand out example

4/ The whole thing could have been avoided if the police had done what EVERY OTHER police force do and hold away fans in after games. Like they have done themselves to us at Fratton.

 

I have said this on many many occasions.

[Kingsland Nick]

It seems that what an individual does isn't important, if he is part of a violent group:

 

Violent disorder

 

Title: Public order

 

Offence: Violent disorder

 

Legislation: Section 2 Public Order Act 1986

 

Commencement Date:

 

Mode of Trial: Either Way

 

Statutory Limitations & Maximum Penalty: 5 years

 

Specified offence under Section 224 CJA 2003

 

Sentencing Range:

 

Aggravating & Mitigating Factors

Busy public place. Large group, people put in fear. Vulnerable victims, weapons, fighting between rival groups. Planning/organisation. Racially/religiously aggravated. Injuries/damage. Violence towards Police. Disguises. Impulsive action. Provocation.

 

Relevant Sentencing Guidelines (If Any)

None

 

Relevant Sentencing Case Law

 

Sentencing guidance in cases of serious disorder:-

R v Chapman (2002) 146 SJ

D took part in street riot over a number of hours. Threw stones at Police and re-armed himself in order to continue.3 years in YOI on G plea. Upheld.

 

R v Hebron and Spencer 11 Cr. App. R (S) 226

Both under 21 and took part in N.Y. Eve riot.

H threw bottles at Police. S shook fists and shouted "Kill the Bill".

10 and 12 months respectively was an appropriate sentence.

IT IS NOT ONLY THE PRECISE NATUTE OF THE INDIVIDUAL ACTS BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT THE DEFENDANTS HAVE TAKEN PART.

 

R v Green [1997]2 Cr. App. R.(S) 191

Revenge attack. 3 men attended house of victim plus one. Property damaged. Assaults with baseball bats. 3 and 4 years prison upheld.

 

R v Watson & others (1990) 12 Cr App R (S) 477

Retaliatory violence. D with others, broke into premises, caused damage. Attacked innocent persons. Good character. 18 months prison.

 

R v Rees [2006]1 Cr App R (S)

A feature of the offence is that it is not the individual conduct of one offender that is of importance but the nature of the offending as a whole.

 

Ancillary Orders:

 

Compensation

Banning orders

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/violent_disorder/

[Thedelldays]

4/ The whole thing could have been avoided if the police had done what EVERY OTHER police force do and hold away fans in after games. Like they have done themselves to us at Fratton.

 

I have said this on many many occasions.

 

that is clearly not true

[Turkish]

I get the feeling that Turkish is just crying because the sentences have put a nail in the coffin of the feral yobs that attach themselves to football clubs. If there is less trouble at future derbies because the yobs fear imprisonment then good.

 

Nothing of the sort Dune. So come on then, did you express your outrage to the boys in blue when you weren't allowed to leave Fratton Park in 2004? Or where you glad they kept you in the ground and cleared the Pomey fans away?

[View From The Top]

Except that the OB and CPS can only recommend a sentence, they cannot enforce or predetermine one. That's all on the judge.

 

Very true but it's no accident that I posted on the thread, when the Echo first ran the story, what the charges and sentences (if convicted) would be, or would be pressed for, as I'd been told by someone involved in the case.

 

With the exception of the longer term for the fella with previous I was pretty accurate.

[Turkish]

that is clearly not true

 

why?

[saintjay77]

I might have missed that but I thought View From The Top said that the OB were going for a custodial sentance. Didnt see they had one agreed already. Isnt that illegal in its self? Surly any Barrister worth his salt would be able to get a case thrown out of court if he could prove the OB were acting a Judge and Jury before someone is even proven guilty in the court of law and all that?

 

Could it be that the OB went for the charges they did thinking that the judge may reduce the charges to Threatening Behaviour or on appeal the charges may get reduced? Aim high and still get a result if the Judge sides with the defendants a bit?

 

Just an idea and no idea if they would or could do that.

[View From The Top]

Nothing of the sort Dune. So come on then, did you express your outrage to the boys in blue when you weren't allowed to leave Fratton Park in 2004? Or where you glad they kept you in the ground and cleared the Pomey fans away?

 

Don't forget Dune is an expert on feral yobs as he goes on National Front marches.

[Gorgiesaint]

I sit firmly on the "If they were stupid enough to do it front of police with cameras then they deserve what they get" side of the fence. I've not actually voiced an opinion about the length of the sentence, other than to say that it makes sentencing for more serious crime look pathetic by example, and I stand by all of that. What I haven't done is paint a patently ridiculous scenario then try and use it to justify the opinion that the OB are somehow responsible for the whole thing.

 

Ponty, I'm not saying that the OB are responsible for the whole thing but they have some responsibility.

 

Had it completely kicked off, do you think that if there was another derby the following week then the OB would have made the same decision to release the Pompey fans at the same time? IMO they would make the decision that has been made at every other derby game and hold them back - which is actually what they should have done in the first place. It does not excuse the idiots for causing trouble but the OB have a duty of care to the public. IMO they did not discharge that duty of care properly.