Cameron on the Unions - "What planet are they on?"

[dune]

Yesterday David Cameron put the EU in their place and told them we would not be informing them of our budget plans prior to their announcement in Westminster - not now and not ever http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/181569/Cameron-tells-EU-Hands-off-our-budget-plans, and today he has launched into the Trades Union scum and spelt out to them that this government will not shirk the necessary decisions needed to stave off the threat of Britain ending up like Greece. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10356401.stm

 

Welldone David Cameron. It's like a breath of fresh air to finally have a Prime Minister and a government that know what they're doing.

[buctootim]

Actually he didnt mention the unions in either of those pieces. All he stood up for was Britains rights to continue to run huge and unsustainable budget deficits if and when he wants.

[dune]

Actually he didnt mention the unions in either of those pieces. All he stood up for was Britains rights to continue to run huge and unsustainable budget deficits if and when he wants.

 

Mr Cameron also lashed out at some unions, asking "what planet are they on?" after some union leaders vowed to oppose any cuts.

[View From The Top]

Mr Cameron also lashed out at some unions, asking "what planet are they on?" after some union leaders vowed to oppose any cuts.

 

That's really launching into them Stanley. I'm sure they are quaking.

 

Still, with you being an uneducated, semi-skilled, neo-nazi it's easy to see why you get confused easily.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I reckon Stanley learned his way of writing comments from the Snu and Daily Hate.

 

Not bad for a nazi really.

[iansums]

Typical lefties. If someone comes out with less than favourable comments about the unions then they are 'nazis', brilliant.

[dune]

Typical lefties. If someone comes out with less than favourable comments about the unions then they are 'nazis', brilliant.

 

Ignore the terrible twins.

[View From The Top]

Typical lefties. If someone comes out with less than favourable comments about the unions then they are 'nazis', brilliant.

 

Of course, it's nothing to do with Stanley/Dune believing we backed the wrong side in WW2, being a member of the BNP and attending NF rallies. Not to mention his previous statements under his previous username to do with coloured races being inferior to white races as per Darwins theory or his previous statements questioning whether the holocaust happened. Nope, nothing to do with that.

 

Prehaps you should ask him why he was banned under his previous userneme and why some mods want him banned again.

 

Still, you carry on believing it's becuase someone said something about unions.

[dune]

Of course, it's nothing to do with Stanley/Dune believing we backed the wrong side in WW2, being a member of the BNP and attending NF rallies. Not to mention his previous statements under his previous username to do with coloured races being inferior to white races as per Darwins theory or his previous statements questioning whether the holocaust happened. Nope, nothing to do with that.

 

Prehaps you should ask him why he was banned under his previous userneme and why some mods want him banned again.

 

Still, you carry on believing it's becuase someone said something about unions.

 

I'm a holocaust denier too now am I?

 

You crack me up Pinnochio.

[ericb]

yeah ****ing scum the trade unions, imagine getting an eight hour working day, a five day week, health and safety in the work place, equal voting rights (not based on land ownership), stopping the employment of children, the minimum wage, equal working rights for women.... seriously these people are the scum of the earth

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Of course, it's nothing to do with Stanley/Dune believing we backed the wrong side in WW2, being a member of the BNP and attending NF rallies. Not to mention his previous statements under his previous username to do with coloured races being inferior to white races as per Darwins theory or his previous statements questioning whether the holocaust happened. Nope, nothing to do with that.

 

Prehaps you should ask him why he was banned under his previous userneme and why some mods want him banned again.

Still, you carry on believing it's becuase someone said something about unions.

 

The piece in red is whatvexes me as I understood he was given a life ban? If so is he now capable of not only reinventing himself but also

wiping all memory of his Nazi utterances from the mods minds?

 

As an aside, although prompted by the train of thought, how does one report a comment that one believes breaches forum rules?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

yeah ****ing scum the trade unions, imagine getting an eight hour working day, a five day week, health and safety in the work place, equal voting rights (not based on land ownership), stopping the employment of children, the minimum wage, equal working rights for women.... seriously these people are the scum of the earth

 

Careful now! You'll be labelled a loony leftie or a terrible triplet! (Ouch! that did hurt me Stanley)

[View From The Top]

I'm a holocaust denier too now am I?

 

You crack me up Pinnochio.

 

Under your previous username you questioned whether 6 million jews died. Or has that forgotten that as well? Still, nice to see you accept the rest Stanley, including your previous username.

[dune]

Under your previous username you questioned whether 6 million jews died. Or has that forgotten that as well? Still, nice to see you accept the rest Stanley, including your previous username.

 

You are a liar.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Under your previous username you questioned whether 6 million jews died. Or has that forgotten that as well? Still, nice to see you accept the rest Stanley, including your previous username.

 

You are a liar.

 

This is getting interesting now, will this get to end game quicker than Skates V HMRC?

 

Will proof be required?

 

Worth all those late night PM's VFTT?

[SuperMikey]

Aaaaaaaaaaand in the red corner...

[View From The Top]

This is getting interesting now, will this get to end game quicker than Skates V HMRC?

 

Will proof be required?

 

Worth all those late night PM's VFTT?

 

He'll be telling us he's not Stanley next and wasn't banned for his pro-Nazi views.

[Wilko]

I once spoke to a Tory party election candidate who was a holocaust denier. Nice bunch, that Tory lot.

[Joesaint]

Good too much waste, I bloody hate the unions look at BA why should the not remain competitive with other airlines, Unions = idiots

[Joesaint]

I once spoke to a Tory party election candidate who was a holocaust denier. Nice bunch, that Tory lot.

 

O yea all Labour supporters are f**king angels!!!!!!!!

[Elmore]

Bit of a brass neck; Cameron has lived his entire life on another planet from the rest of us plebs.

[Saint George]

All that means is Unions haven't 'always' been "scum".......There's a time and a place for everything y'know

[rocknrollman no2]

Good too much waste, I bloody hate the unions look at BA why should the not remain competitive with other airlines, Unions = idiots

Well Joesaint,

Lets hope you are never unfairly dismissed,or have an accident at work thats the fault of the company or have your hours/job totally changed to what you do now.Whatever job you are in now,i bet most of the conditions you enjoy have been fought for by the unions at some point.

[Joesaint]

Well Joesaint,

Lets hope you are never unfairly dismissed,or have an accident at work thats the fault of the company or have your hours/job totally changed to what you do now.Whatever job you are in now,i bet most of the conditions you enjoy have been fought for by the unions at some point.

 

I'm just saying why should BA give their staff so much more for their staff than other airlines have to, I understand what you are saying but there has to be a balance. No industry will continue in this country then we have to compete at a disadvantage, look at British steel in Sheffield, If you’re not happy in one job ie ba staff join someone else, actually they won’t because no other airline will give the same benefits.

 

Plus knowing people that got court in the strikes I think it was a disgrace from the Unions, they are not elected from the British public and try to hold British business to ransom killing it just like coal mines.

 

All I am saying is there has to be a balance, my last post.

[bridge too far]

................

 

Plus knowing people that got court in the strikes I think it was a disgrace from the Unions, they are not elected from the British public and try to hold British business to ransom killing it just like coal mines.

 

All I am saying is there has to be a balance, my last post.

 

You're right - they're elected by their members.

 

 

The public have no more right to have a say in union business than they have to have a say in how the board of BA behave.

 

That's the balance.

[rocknrollman no2]

I'm just saying why should BA give their staff so much more for their staff than other airlines have to, I understand what you are saying but there has to be a balance. No industry will continue in this country then we have to compete at a disadvantage, look at British steel in Sheffield, If you’re not happy in one job ie ba staff join someone else, actually they won’t because no other airline will give the same benefits.

 

Plus knowing people that got court in the strikes I think it was a disgrace from the Unions, they are not elected from the British public and try to hold British business to ransom killing it just like coal mines.

 

All I am saying is there has to be a balance, my last post.

 

Agree with the last bit of your post Joesaint.

If there was a decent balance between management and the unions,life would be a lot better for the average working person.

[Robsk II]

Ah, the usual lack of perspective, common sense or objectivity. Anyone who is 100% against unions in any form or situation is clearly a ****ing idiot. The same, however, applies to union leaders who fail to see necessity for cuts to be made in some areas. Clearly, cuts are often made in stupid ways or places, but, whether or not they like the system as it stands, our economy needs stabilising. Of course, there are other ways to do this than just target public sectors indiscriminately and so on.. taxing the stupidly rich, for one, or making banks foot much of the bill for the crisis they made - but clearly those things aren't going to happen under a Tory government.

[Weston Super Saint]

Ah, the usual lack of perspective, common sense or objectivity. Anyone who is 100% against unions in any form or situation is clearly a ****ing idiot. The same, however, applies to union leaders who fail to see necessity for cuts to be made in some areas. Clearly, cuts are often made in stupid ways or places, but, whether or not they like the system as it stands, our economy needs stabilising. Of course, there are other ways to do this than just target public sectors indiscriminately and so on.. taxing the stupidly rich, for one, or making banks foot much of the bill for the crisis they made - but clearly those things aren't going to happen under a Tory government.

 

I assume you can point to the relevant pages of the Labour manifesto, where they stated categorically that they would make these things happen?

[The Kraken]

Ah, the usual lack of perspective, common sense or objectivity. Anyone who is 100% against unions in any form or situation is clearly a ****ing idiot. The same, however, applies to union leaders who fail to see necessity for cuts to be made in some areas. Clearly, cuts are often made in stupid ways or places, but, whether or not they like the system as it stands, our economy needs stabilising. Of course, there are other ways to do this than just target public sectors indiscriminately and so on.. taxing the stupidly rich, for one, or making banks foot much of the bill for the crisis they made - but clearly those things aren't going to happen under a Tory government.

 

You see, I've never got this argument. It's such an easy thing to say "tax the rich, they can afford it". There's a quote from TV show The West Wing which I think sums its up quite well..

 

"Henry, last fall, every time your boss got on the stump and said, "It’s time for the rich to pay their fair share," I hid under a couch and changed my name. I left Gage Whitney making $400,000 a year, which means I paid 27 times the national average in income tax. I paid my fair share, and the fair share of 26 other people. And I’m happy to, because that’s the only way it’s gonna work. And it’s in my best interest that everybody be able to go to schools and drive on roads. But I don’t get 27 votes on Election Day. The fire department doesn’t come to my house 27 times faster and the water doesn’t come out of my faucet 27 times hotter. The top one percent of wage earners in this country pay for 22 percent of this country. Let’s not call them names while they’re doing it, is all I’m saying."

 

To suggest the "stupidly rich", as you put it, aren't already being massively taxed and doing their fair share is just not true.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Tories to attack the poorest! and Unions shock horror!

 

Average public sector pension for men (women even less) is £4000 a year.

 

What's Fred Goodwin's pension? £16million. Tough at the top.

 

Most people will accept a pay freeze but if the Tories start messing with people's pensions then there will be civil unrest.

[trousers]

Tories to attack the poorest! and Unions shock horror!

 

Average public sector pension for men (women even less) is £4000 a year.

 

What's Fred Goodwin's pension? £16million. Tough at the top.

 

Most people will accept a pay freeze but if the Tories start messing with people's pensions then there will be civil unrest.

 

Like there was when Brown shat on all personal pensions?

[Thedelldays]

Tories to attack the poorest! and Unions shock horror!

 

Average public sector pension for men (women even less) is £4000 a year.

 

What's Fred Goodwin's pension? £16million. Tough at the top.

 

Most people will accept a pay freeze but if the Tories start messing with people's pensions then there will be civil unrest.

is that the fred that labour gave a knighthood to..?

[Elmore]

You see, I've never got this argument. It's such an easy thing to say "tax the rich, they can afford it". There's a quote from TV show The West Wing which I think sums its up quite well..

 

"Henry, last fall, every time your boss got on the stump and said, "It’s time for the rich to pay their fair share," I hid under a couch and changed my name. I left Gage Whitney making $400,000 a year, which means I paid 27 times the national average in income tax. I paid my fair share, and the fair share of 26 other people. And I’m happy to, because that’s the only way it’s gonna work. And it’s in my best interest that everybody be able to go to schools and drive on roads. But I don’t get 27 votes on Election Day. The fire department doesn’t come to my house 27 times faster and the water doesn’t come out of my faucet 27 times hotter. The top one percent of wage earners in this country pay for 22 percent of this country. Let’s not call them names while they’re doing it, is all I’m saying."

 

To suggest the "stupidly rich", as you put it, aren't already being massively taxed and doing their fair share is just not true.

 

The problem is that in real life many (most?) extremely rich people evade the tax that they should pay - they've been doing it for a long, long time.

[trousers]

The problem is that in real life many (most?) extremely rich people evade the tax that they should pay - they've been doing it for a long, long time.

 

And what do they do with the money they avoid paying to the treasury?

 

Spend it on big boats and the like which creates many jobs.

 

Sounds like a good trade to me.

[bridge too far]

OK - let's all stop paying tax (sort of like Poopey) and spend it on stuff to create jobs. Although quite who will provide the education and healthcare for the employees taken on to do these new job, heaven only knows.

 

Let's then all take out private medical insurance (because there'll be no tax revenues to pay for the NHS). Although quite who is going to train the doctors and nurses, heaven only knows.

 

And all of us employ individual refuse collectors, our own private policeman and firefighter and send our kids to private schools (although quite how training for these professions will be provided, heaven only knows).

 

Silly argument, Trousers - I would have expected better of you.

[JustMike]

Yesterday David Cameron put the EU in their place and told them we would not be informing them of our budget plans prior to their announcement in Westminster - not now and not ever http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/181569/Cameron-tells-EU-Hands-off-our-budget-plans, and today he has launched into the Trades Union scum and spelt out to them that this government will not shirk the necessary decisions needed to stave off the threat of Britain ending up like Greece. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/politics/10356401.stm

 

Welldone David Cameron. It's like a breath of fresh air to finally have a Prime Minister and a government that know what they're doing.

 

he won't be informing them of their budget plans because he knows the EU (like most of the UK) will not be happy.

 

I had to laugh when reading the SRS thread about the installment plans when you said, "....especially ticket sales with the £3 rip off booking tax added on"

 

mmm you think thats a rip of tax, just wait to see what pearls of wisdom your lot come up with!

[trousers]

OK - let's all stop paying tax (sort of like Poopey) and spend it on stuff to create jobs. Although quite who will provide the education and healthcare for the employees taken on to do these new job, heaven only knows.

 

Let's then all take out private medical insurance (because there'll be no tax revenues to pay for the NHS). Although quite who is going to train the doctors and nurses, heaven only knows.

 

And all of us employ individual refuse collectors, our own private policeman and firefighter and send our kids to private schools (although quite how training for these professions will be provided, heaven only knows).

 

Silly argument, Trousers - I would have expected better of you.

 

Not a silly argument at all. Of course I'm not advocating the 'rich git' method of wealth recycling for all.

 

Sigh.

 

There will always be a 'super rich' elite and all I'm countering is the shallow argument that they somehow don't contribute to society because they "evade" paying mainstream taxes.

 

I'd much rather they recycled their huge wealth in the 'free market' than hand over mullions of pounds to politicians. We all know how good the latter are at spending taxpayer's money wisely.

 

Anyway, back to the sweeping statements....

[hamster]

Blimey that DC is just so hard isn;t he. 'Friends, ****neys, countreymen, lend me your ears', You have for far too long been treated like peasants, you have been down-trodden, betrayed and lied to, but now I am here - your saviour. Now then where shal we start this revolution? (thinks for a minute)...Unions, that's where I shall start'. The very institution that was founded through toil and blood by decent hardworking men a few centuries back. Maggie, you made a start but now the job needs finishing and DC is the man to do it apparently. Well **** him, **** big business and **** the global financial world that they all live in.

 

You're starting in the wrong place DC, don;t kick the working man when he is down you ****, have a look around you mate have a good look at what you and your predecessors have done to Society.....and smell the bull****, it is your bull**** so kindly pick up thy shovel and clear up YOUR mess before you start on us poor buggers.

 

You ****ing ****** Cameron, you ****ing ******.

 

btw, no i haven't read the article, I just got out of bed the wrong side today. Please forgive me.

[The Kraken]

The problem is that in real life many (most?) extremely rich people evade the tax that they should pay - they've been doing it for a long, long time.

 

I think you're getting confused between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Tax avoidance is perfectly legal and involves utilising the law to one's advantage to reduce the tax burden. Tax evasion is the illegal avoidance of tax, punishable by law.

 

Besides, you're using a ridiculous generalisation; "rich people evade paying tax", suggesting they don't pay any tax at all. Of course they use every (legal) trick in the book to bring their tax bill down as much as possible, but there's no way around the fact that they still have to pay extremely significant tax sums. And it's not just extremely rich people that do this at all; your average guy on the street will employ all sorts of tax avoidance schemes, just to a less significant scale. As a business owner myself I utilise an accountant whose responsibility it is to reduce the company's and my personal tax burdens as much as the legal system will allow. This doesn't mean I don't pay tax, just slightly less than I perhaps could.

[dubai_phil]

1) The Unions (Are supposed to) exist to protect the rights of their members

2) The Government does not have any money it is YOU the people who give them YOUR money

3) The Government has been spending money that IT DID NOT HAVE - ie YOUR money that YOU do not yet have)

4) The only solution to debt is inflation - which makes it smaller, paying it back, which hurts because you have less money or bankruptcy, which means you have to live on benefits a council house or on what you have in your pocket

 

Now when a COUNTRY goes bust there ain't no God giving handouts or building homes for you. You can refuse to pay back but then nobody else will ever LEND to you, so if you are STILL spending more money than you have, where does it come from? yep, Inflation. Inflate debt away, simples - 10 quid for a pint of Ringwood and 40 quid for a pack of cigarettes.

 

But guess what, benefits, wages and the like won't go up by the same rate as inflation.

 

So the simple fact is that everyone in teh UK owes around 40 grand.

 

Option 1) Go chase those nasty entrepreneurs and lazy rip off bankers for it. - Good option - guess what - they'll all sod off to Dubai or The Bahamas because they can AFFORD to leaving nobody to take the risk of starting up a busines sto give you a job

Option 2) Everybody gets to pay what they can to get out the mess - well you're a democracy and have a voting system, so you are all to blame for voting Labour in 3 times and listening to the lies and believing in La-la land of ever spend

Option 3) Riot, have a coup and start all over again

Option 4) Hope the damned foreigners in the EU go t1ts up first and nobody is left alive to ask for their loans back

 

The Unions HAVE to stand up and protect the jobs of their members. It is their DUTY.

The Government HAVE to sort out the mess of the finances. It is their DUTY.

The people will just get screwed over yet again as they have done since the days of Ted Heath and will never learn that all Politicians and all the doctrines and dogmas are only for the benefit of The PEOPLE (no, that's NOT the Population, it means THOSE IN CHARGE)

 

Anarchy ain't the way, understanding and working together is. But taht ain't gonna happen so a summer of disgruntlement and a winter of Public Sector strikes, no rubbish collections, Green Goddesses, charity collections for homeless starving Cabin Crew loom.

 

All so fecking predictable again and again and again.

 

There is a simple answer. All Politicians LIE, so STOP believing them and demand that they run the country within a budget. You have to do it in your household and your manager has to do it at work. Why the hell do people think that Politicians DON'T have to do that and that money grows on trees?

 

If you want better hospitals pay more taxes. Oh I forgot, you already pay about 60% in tax with NI PAYE VAT Death Stamp Petrol Booze Customs Stealth taxes etc etc etc

[Elmore]

I think you're getting confused between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Tax avoidance is perfectly legal and involves utilising the law to one's advantage to reduce the tax burden. Tax evasion is the illegal avoidance of tax, punishable by law.

 

Besides, you're using a ridiculous generalisation; "rich people evade paying tax", suggesting they don't pay any tax at all. Of course they use every (legal) trick in the book to bring their tax bill down as much as possible, but there's no way around the fact that they still have to pay extremely significant tax sums. And it's not just extremely rich people that do this at all; your average guy on the street will employ all sorts of tax avoidance schemes, just to a less significant scale. As a business owner myself I utilise an accountant whose responsibility it is to reduce the company's and my personal tax burdens as much as the legal system will allow. This doesn't mean I don't pay tax, just slightly less than I perhaps could.

 

Evade / avoid - it still stinks.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Cameron finishes what Thatcher started with the Unions or its the 70's all over again, only much much worse. And if he doesn't the country goes to hell in a handbasket.

[dune]

Tories to attack the poorest! and Unions shock horror!

 

Average public sector pension for men (women even less) is £4000 a year.

 

What's Fred Goodwin's pension? £16million. Tough at the top.

 

Most people will accept a pay freeze but if the Tories start messing with people's pensions then there will be civil unrest.

 

Un-****ing-believeable.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-446136/CBI-lashes-Brown-pension-tax-raid.html

[bridge too far]

Tories to attack the poorest! and Unions shock horror!

 

Average public sector pension for men (women even less) is £4000 a year.

 

What's Fred Goodwin's pension? £16million. Tough at the top.

 

Most people will accept a pay freeze but if the Tories start messing with people's pensions then there will be civil unrest.

 

No, no Andy - you've got it all wrong!

 

Gorgeous George says we're all in it together - we all have to share the pain.

 

Except some of us will have a bigger share of the pain than others.

 

What a splendid opportunity for the Tories to revert to type and dismantle the public sector, filling the resulting gaps with private firms run by their buddies.

[Thedelldays]

No, no Andy - you've got it all wrong!

 

Gorgeous George says we're all in it together - we all have to share the pain.

 

Except some of us will have a bigger share of the pain than others.

 

What a splendid opportunity for the Tories to revert to type and dismantle the public sector, filling the resulting gaps with private firms run by their buddies.

you make it sound that all is dandy and that many of the things going we could not really afford in the first place (obviously)

 

then again..im sure the libdems will be outraged by these cuts......oh

[bridge too far]

you make it sound that all is dandy and that many of the things going we could not really afford in the first place (obviously)

 

then again..im sure the libdems will be outraged by these cuts......oh

 

Let's see what happens when the Budget is delivered and voted on. I'll be hugely disappointed if the Liberals go with the Tories on this - I would expect better of them, especially as the much respected Vince Cable said it would be wrong to cut too soon and too deep.

[saint1977]

Did you actually go to School or was it all too much for you? God, there are some dense people in Soton.

[saint1977]

By the way, that was aimed at Trousers. Always thought until that post that he seemed to have a brain but the ignorance was frightening. If you need emergency surgery because a car hits you, you will live (or possibly die) to regret those comments.

 

I'm not 100% pro Unions as there are some dinosaurs but having had a successful career to date working across different sectors there are also some bad Directors and senior managers (as well as some very talented ones) who need a brake on their ineptitude. Therefore, a balance in the economy is needed.

[saint1977]

By the way, I was talking about medical care and the need to fund it from tax funds! Private medicine can't help you much if you have an emergency situation.

[dune]

No, no Andy - you've got it all wrong!

 

Gorgeous George says we're all in it together - we all have to share the pain.

 

Except some of us will have a bigger share of the pain than others.

 

What a splendid opportunity for the Tories to revert to type and dismantle the public sector, filling the resulting gaps with private firms run by their buddies.

 

The public sector needs shaking up and where possible privatising. Surely you can see this?