hypochondriac Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 But surely, with regard to the JPT, the club was only doing what anyone else would do and that is to trade on a success and make some more money? Money that could be spent on better players to ensure more success. You could argue that selling Cup Final scarves, hats, flags etc is ripping people off and milking the occaission. I don`t quite see the diference. Like it or not we are "customers" as well as supporters. Football (even Saints) is a multi-million pound business and any business has customers by definition. I would agree that they have not handled the whole ST/installment thing particularly well, but I want a successful club and one that flourishes. We want to see better players see us climb back to the PL, but I don`t want us to end up like the shower down the road. If by finding a few extra quid I can go and watch a winning team instead of a struggling one, my choice is to pay it. Why not just charge a grand each for tickets then we can have even better players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 At the end of the day we now have a club to support that is on the up and has a lot of potential (attracting a lot of players who want to play in the Prem despite us currently being L1) and that comes at a price. For example, 'fans' of the Prem top 4 pay a much greater price for supporting them than we do with Saints. The further up the football pyramid you go, the more expensive supporting that club becomes, get used to it! As supporters of a football club we do not have a given right for everything to be cheap. You just cant please some people. They moaned about Lowe, they moan at the current owners who have given us the brightest future we could have dreamed off and NOW they moan about the first trophy we have won in 34 years! If you are happy the way the club is run OK but a lot are not. Just because you think the future is bright there is no reason for the club to take advantage of the fans and to spoil the goodwill shown to the new owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 There is no reason for the club to take advantage of the fans and to spoil the goodwill shown to the new owners Havent you got that arse about face? The instalment plans are a form of expensive credit. In many cases the cost of the credit exceeds the discount achieved by buying a season ticket - so making it pointless. Liebherr's family built their company by not taking on debt. Maybe he doesnt believe its right to encourage fans to take on expensive debt to pay for consumption for no benefit. And if so he is damn right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Havent you got that arse about face? The instalment plans are a form of expensive credit. In many cases the cost of the credit exceeds the discount achieved by buying a season ticket - so making it pointless. Liebherr's family built their company by not taking on debt. Maybe he doesnt believe its right to encourage fans to take on expensive debt to pay for consumption for no benefit. And if so he is damn right. If that's the case then why suggest in the Supporters Charter that the club would continue to offer payment plans for Season Tickets. Whether or not you think the club SHOULD offer them is immaterial; they said that they would and haven't. Simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Havent you got that arse about face? The instalment plans are a form of expensive credit. In many cases the cost of the credit exceeds the discount achieved by buying a season ticket - so making it pointless. Liebherr's family built their company by not taking on debt. Maybe he doesnt believe its right to encourage fans to take on expensive debt to pay for consumption for no benefit. And if so he is damn right. Can you expand on this please and sumarise a little of the Liebherr family history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Havent you got that arse about face? The instalment plans are a form of expensive credit. In many cases the cost of the credit exceeds the discount achieved by buying a season ticket - so making it pointless. Liebherr's family built their company by not taking on debt. Maybe he doesnt believe its right to encourage fans to take on expensive debt to pay for consumption for no benefit. And if so he is damn right. Seriously, could you possibly get your nose stuck up any more than it already is? What a snobby c*nt you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Seriously, could you possibly get your nose stuck up any more than it already is? What a snobby c*nt you are. Ah the insightful Stu. Pretty much the only one on the board who cant see what tedious prima donna he is. A not a very bright one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Can you expand on this please and sumarise a little of the Liebherr family history. Just what Ive read on the web. The family didnt believe in taking on debt in building their company. Growth funded from profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Why not just charge a grand each for tickets then we can have even better players! I did say "a few quid", but following your logic let`s make it 10 grand or 110 grand. If the club thought that could realistically get people to pay silly money then that is what they would charge. Supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Just what Ive read on the web. The family didnt believe in taking on debt in building their company. Growth funded from profits. Did they insist that their customers don't take on credit to buy their products as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Just what Ive read on the web. The family didnt believe in taking on debt in building their company. Growth funded from profits. "In a continuing effort to strive for wider access to matches, the club will offer a payment plan for season tickets to make them cost-effective." I read that on the web too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Did they insist that their customers don't take on credit to buy their products as well? Probably not. But as far as I know they didnt provide the credit facilities for their customers to buy their products either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 If the club want to make a profit then fair enough, but to state in the supporters charter and on the Travel Club website that coaches are ran at cost price and no profit to the club when that almost certainly is not the case, is morally wrong and is miss-selling and misleading the 'customer' . So what is your grouse? Is it that the club seems to be maximising profit, or the way that they have gone about it? Do you object to paying the extras or is it about Cortese`s style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 So what is your grouse? Is it that the club seems to be maximising profit, or the way that they have gone about it? Do you object to paying the extras or is it about Cortese`s style? Is it not completely obvious what my grouse is...? The rest of the post which you didn't highlight is my issue, the fans are being treated like complete mugs in so many ways. I don't use the travel club, never have and never will... but you CANNOT in any industry try and make out you are selling a product at cost price, with no profit when you clearly ARE turning a profit ( and quite a healthy one I would imagine ) This is miss-selling, customers would be right to believe based on what the club said that if they are being run at cost price, there is no cheaper alternative, so would not shop around, when clearly the Travel Club was the most expensive way to get to Wembley. That is wrong, do you not agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Havent you got that arse about face? The instalment plans are a form of expensive credit. In many cases the cost of the credit exceeds the discount achieved by buying a season ticket - so making it pointless. Liebherr's family built their company by not taking on debt. Maybe he doesnt believe its right to encourage fans to take on expensive debt to pay for consumption for no benefit. And if so he is damn right. If you believe that you must be the thickest person ever to post on this forum. You are basically saying that Cortese - a former banker - doesn't believe in people borrowing and paying interest on their debt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 If you believe that you must be the thickest person ever to post on this forum. You are basically saying that Cortese - a former banker - doesn't believe in people borrowing and paying interest on their debt! Talking of thick......hello. Ill type slowly. Maybe the Liebherr family dont believe in debt. You know, the owner. Cortese's boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 If you believe that you must be the thickest person ever to post on this forum. You are basically saying that Cortese - a former banker - doesn't believe in people borrowing and paying interest on their debt! Funny isn't it. What a thick chump timmy is. Our former banker chairman doesn't believe in credit. You couldn't make it up. We have some proper chumps following our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Just what Ive read on the web. The family didnt believe in taking on debt in building their company. Growth funded from profits. Can you provide us with some links please Timmy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Can you provide us with some links please Timmy? No point. Most of them arent in crayon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Taking all of this into account, the way to annoy Cortese is surely not to 'cherry-pick' the games you go to, but to buy a season ticket, as this is exactly what he doesn't want you to do! Let's sell 20,000 season tickets- that'll teach him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essruu Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Can you provide us with some links please Timmy? http://www.thisishampshire.net/sport/4479991.The__ideal_owner__for_Saints/ Last couple of paragraphs should help: - Though Liebherr will be using personal wealth to finance his takeover as an individual purchaser, his philosophy on money is borne from his upbringing. The Liebherr family business was set up by the late Hans Liebherr in 1949 and now employees 32,000 people worldwide. But despite its colossal size and growth, it is one of few companies that has grown without ever taking on any debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Funny isn't it. What a thick chump timmy is. Our former banker chairman doesn't believe in credit. You couldn't make it up. We have some proper chumps following our team. maybe he does but our owner may not do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Talking of thick......hello. Ill type slowly. Maybe the Liebherr family dont believe in debt. You know, the owner. Cortese's boss. I think it's pretty clear that Cortese is running the show at SFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Is it not completely obvious what my grouse is...? The rest of the post which you didn't highlight is my issue, the fans are being treated like complete mugs in so many ways. I don't use the travel club, never have and never will... but you CANNOT in any industry try and make out you are selling a product at cost price, with no profit when you clearly ARE turning a profit ( and quite a healthy one I would imagine ) This is miss-selling, customers would be right to believe based on what the club said that if they are being run at cost price, there is no cheaper alternative, so would not shop around, when clearly the Travel Club was the most expensive way to get to Wembley. That is wrong, do you not agree? As I understand it, and to a degree I am trying to play Devils Advocate here,the club has said that the Fans Charter applied to season 2009/10 and not to the forthcoming one. That may be flim-flam, but as the charter is not, presumably, a legally binding document, the club can do what it wants with it. I am not saying that what the club has done is morally right or that they couldn`t have handled things better, but despite the fact that I dislike price increases for anything as much as the next man, I am REALLY looking forward to next season, even if it is going to cost me a bit extra. I expect that most peoples thoughts on the situation are somewhere midway between you, Dune and Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 (edited) I think it's pretty clear that Cortese is running the show at SFC. Almost certainly is day to day. All I know is that a credit scheme that many thought would be offered now isnt. One reasonable explanation, no more than that, is that the debt averse owner put a stop to it when he heard about it. Im not saying that is right or wrong. Edited 21 June, 2010 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 As I understand it, and to a degree I am trying to play Devils Advocate here,the club has said that the Fans Charter applied to season 2009/10 and not to the forthcoming one. That may be flim-flam, but as the charter is not, presumably, a legally binding document, the club can do what it wants with it. I am not saying that what the club has done is morally right or that they couldn`t have handled things better, but despite the fact that I dislike price increases for anything as much as the next man, I am REALLY looking forward to next season, even if it is going to cost me a bit extra. I expect that most peoples thoughts on the situation are somewhere midway between you, Dune and Cortese. MOG, the JPT was last season and so the charter should have been current then. The £3 booking fee pre ticket was not fan friedly. Personally Im getting on with it, the club needs money to pay for better players and so we all have to contribute a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 As I understand it, and to a degree I am trying to play Devils Advocate here,the club has said that the Fans Charter applied to season 2009/10 and not to the forthcoming one. That may be flim-flam, but as the charter is not, presumably, a legally binding document, the club can do what it wants with it. I am not saying that what the club has done is morally right or that they couldn`t have handled things better, but despite the fact that I dislike price increases for anything as much as the next man, I am REALLY looking forward to next season, even if it is going to cost me a bit extra. I expect that most peoples thoughts on the situation are somewhere midway between you, Dune and Cortese. Without sounding patronising... the JPT was in the 2009/2010 season. Also the Travel Club page on the OS also promoted the Travel Club as a cost-price, non-profit department. Funnily enough that has since been updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Almost certainly is day today. All I know is that a credit scheme that many thought would be offered now isnt. One reasonable explanation, no more than that, is that the debt averse owner put a stop to it when he heard about it. Im not saying that is right or wrong. I would suggest that you are talking out of your anus. Just because Liebherr doesn't like his company going into debt doesn't mean he is in some sort of bizarre crusade against debt. If he is, then forcing fans to pay by credit card instead of a relatively safe interest free repayment method is not exactly the brightest way of combatting the world wide debt crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 I would suggest that you are talking out of your anus. Just because Liebherr doesn't like his company going into debt doesn't mean he is in some sort of bizarre crusade against debt. If he is, then forcing fans to pay by credit card instead of a relatively safe interest free repayment method is not exactly the brightest way of combatting the world wide debt crisis. Of course, the weird conspiracy theories with Cortese determined to **** off the fans are so much more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 http://www.thisishampshire.net/sport/4479991.The__ideal_owner__for_Saints/ Last couple of paragraphs should help: - Though Liebherr will be using personal wealth to finance his takeover as an individual purchaser, his philosophy on money is borne from his upbringing. The Liebherr family business was set up by the late Hans Liebherr in 1949 and now employees 32,000 people worldwide. But despite its colossal size and growth, it is one of few companies that has grown without ever taking on any debt. Come on Essy, we can't pick and choose when we decide to believe the Echo. I get it, rubbish anything the Echo says unless trying to use it against SRS. And anyway, they talk about the Liebherr company ( nothing to do with Markus now ) has grown without any debt, not the Mali Group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Of course, the weird conspiracy theories with Cortese determined to **** off the fans are so much more likely. A weird conspiracy like a Swiss banker trying to make more money by forcing fans to pay for higher priced individual game tickets. Yeah that's not believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Havent you got that arse about face? The instalment plans are a form of expensive credit. In many cases the cost of the credit exceeds the discount achieved by buying a season ticket - so making it pointless. Liebherr's family built their company by not taking on debt. Maybe he doesnt believe its right to encourage fans to take on expensive debt to pay for consumption for no benefit. And if so he is damn right. You obviously have no idea of what installment plans are really about and probably have little idea about how Markus' company is financed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 How about accepting that the club just dont wish to have an installment plan this season, they may also not want to provide a creche, should we be up in arms about that? The club can decide as they wish and it is not all about trying to upset the fan base. I suspect NC is very happy that his scheme re the new shirt without the sponsors name is likely to bring in another fantastic profit, he knows how to wring it out of us, but why the surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 A weird conspiracy like a Swiss banker trying to make more money by forcing fans to pay for higher priced individual game tickets. Yeah that's not believable. If that logic held true no clubs would offer season tickets. They would all try and get more cash by selling tickets game by game only. Most of the people on here who want the instalment scheme claim they wont buy a season ticket now and will only cherry pick and go to much fewer games - which means less revenue. I dont know what the change of heart is about, but its not about screwing the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 You obviously have no idea of what installment plans are really about and probably have little idea about how Markus' company is financed Actually its you who dont understand them. You still seem to think that its not a loan to the fan from a third party finance company. Sorry. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Of course, the weird conspiracy theories with Cortese determined to **** off the fans are so much more likely. interested to know why you think the half season tickets have been pulled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 interested to know why you think the half season tickets have been pulled? No idea. Agree seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 No point. Most of them arent in crayon. Made me LOL Muchio Gracias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Actually its you who dont understand them. You still seem to think that its not a loan to the fan from a third party finance company. Sorry. It is. I pay Water and Council Tax by an installment plan for services through out the year and no finance company is involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Actually its you who dont understand them. You still seem to think that its not a loan to the fan from a third party finance company. Sorry. It is. No... it doesn't have to be. How do I know this? Because I have a quote written out in writing here outlining the full terms and conditions after speaking to the very people who sell the plans. What exactly do you have to back up your claims? I admire you trying to tell me I am wrong when I have all the details in front of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 No... it doesn't have to be. How do I know this? Because I have a quote written out in writing here outlining the full terms and conditions after speaking to the very people who sell the plans. What exactly do you have to back up your claims? I admire you trying to tell me I am wrong when I have all the details in front of me. Let us all see then Stuey. Post up a scan of the docs. Who pays for this wonderful free service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 I pay Water and Council Tax by an installment plan for services through out the year and no finance company is involved That is completely f*cking stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 That is completely f*cking stupid So what actually is ****ing stupid about paying Council Tax by installments without a finance company being involved . It is likely that the past installment plans at SFC did not involve a Finance Company Other clubs seem to run installment plans with or without Finance Companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Presumably the club would need a Consumer Credit Licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 (edited) Other clubs seem to run installment plans with or without Finance Companies Please, name one. I've looked at the schemes for 12 clubs and they all use a finance company. Edited 21 June, 2010 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Please, name one. I've looked at the schemes for 12 clubs and they all use a finance company. Coventry, Preston, Watford and Swansea off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Presumably the club would need a Consumer Credit Licence? No, the club ran their scheme themeselves last year. It is not credit , therefore you don't need a CCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 No, the club ran their scheme themeselves last year. It is not credit , therefore you don't need a CCL. It is credit, but a licence is not needed if credit is not extended beyond three months, or customers are allowed to pay their bills in four or fewer payments within 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 (edited) Coventry, Preston, Watford and Swansea off the top of my head. Wow Stu. 25% of that post wasnt bull****. Is that a mistake? Coventry -Zebra Finance Preston - Zebra Finance Watford - own scheme Swansea - Zebra Finance Edited 21 June, 2010 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 If that logic held true no clubs would offer season tickets.. That's my whole point you ****ing retard - no other clubs use Cortese's logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now