Maggie back at Number 10

[Thedelldays]

Yes, there is some. It is currently massively outweighed by the overwhelming amount of evidence disproving your ideas. As scientific method is a process which adapts to evidence, you are essentially saying that you don't belive that the process of scientific method has correctly identified the most likely outcome of the observed data. Being against scientific method is a rather illogical position to adopt IMO.

 

yet, there are plenty of scientists that say otherwise..

[saintkiptanui]

Yes, there is some. It is currently massively outweighed by the overwhelming amount of evidence disproving your ideas. As scientific method is a process which adapts to evidence, you are essentially saying that you don't belive that the process of scientific method has correctly identified the most likely outcome of the observed data. Being against scientific method is a rather illogical position to adopt IMO.

I feel like a maverick

[Thedelldays]

also, isnt it true that more coal mines were closed be the previous labour govt than were closed under maggie tories..?

[Joensuu]

again, I get that..if she destroyed the country, how on earth did she win 3 TIMES...?

 

Simple she polorised the country. She trashed the areas which didn't vote for her, and benefited the rest of the country. She was loathed by about 1/3 of the country, and found to be more acceptable than the Cause 4 brigade by about 1/2 of the country. To this day 1/3 of the country still hate her, the rest are ambivalent.

[Dark Munster]

i am amazed people bring up things as trivial as milk..

 

if she never even existed, would we still get free milk today..? would we have got free milk 10 years ago..?

of course bloody not

 

if maggie was so dreadful, why did she win 3 elections..?

 

Labour was even more dreadful.

[CB Saint]

Thatcher made some very unpopular decisions during her tenure. Some were necessary given the financial state of the UK at the time (I sometimes wonder if people recall just how bad the mid to late 70's were or if the passage of time has take the edge off it). Other she completely misjudged the mood of the electorate, poll tax being the obvious one.

 

Interestingly Cameron is faced with a similar financial situation, arguably worse that Thatcher inherited in 79. Everyone agrees that drastic measures are needed to balance the books, so will DC generate the same hatred that Maggie does due the decisions his government are going to have to make to set things straight.

[Joensuu]

yet, there are plenty of scientists that say otherwise..

 

Again, don't really want to argue this.

 

Yes, there are plenty of scientists who say otherwise, they are however a very small minority. Scientific method is the process which debates and refines theories, attempting through peer review to find the theory which best explains the observed evidence. Currently, the process of scientific method is finding overwhelming evidence supporting Climate Change. Quite simply none of the altenative theories proposed to date has been found to fit the evidence as accurately.

 

I'm not arguing that Climate Change is a 'fact', I am saying that it is currently (by far) our best explaination for the observed global changes. To argue against this, is essentially to say that you don't agree with either the process of scientific method, or you don't believe that the vast majority of scientists are following it correctly. A strange position for anyone to adopt.

[bridge too far]

.......

 

Interestingly Cameron is faced with a similar financial situation, arguably worse that Thatcher inherited in 79. Everyone agrees that drastic measures are needed to balance the books, so will DC generate the same hatred that Maggie does due the decisions his government are going to have to make to set things straight.

 

But DC is being quite cute by inviting us all to decide what should be cut and what shouldn't.

 

We, as a nation, are never going to agree because we all have different 'agendae'.

 

So it'll be divide and rule Very clever.

[solentstars]

it looks like maggies love in with the usual suspects licking her a ss again.

shes at no 10 again so what big deal.

[solentstars]

Thatcher made some very unpopular decisions during her tenure. Some were necessary given the financial state of the UK at the time (I sometimes wonder if people recall just how bad the mid to late 70's were or if the passage of time has take the edge off it). Other she completely misjudged the mood of the electorate, poll tax being the obvious one.

 

Interestingly Cameron is faced with a similar financial situation, arguably worse that Thatcher inherited in 79. Everyone agrees that drastic measures are needed to balance the books, so will DC generate the same hatred that Maggie does due the decisions his government are going to have to make to set things straight.

no i think cameron is a one nation tory unlike maggie who only cared for the top 10 % of the richest in the country .

[Saintandy666]

Defining PM's of post war Britain in my opinion are Atlee, Thatcher and Blair(and brown in a strange sort of way given his power within the Blair premiership). Whether you liked what they did or not, you can not say that they didn't change the face of this country.

[NickG]

which still does her no dis-service

 

churchill, was not only the greatest PM but to many, the greatest ever briton

 

surely thats Simon Cowell?

[dune]

But DC is being quite cute by inviting us all to decide what should be cut and what shouldn't.

 

We, as a nation, are never going to agree because we all have different 'agendae'.

 

So it'll be divide and rule Very clever.

 

It also contrasts with the control freak Labour party.

[bridge too far]

It also contrasts with the control freak Labour party.

 

Well, they're talking the talk - let's see if they walk the walk. Unless of course they're scared of making the big decisions :smt102

 

Just watching the news I was struck by how much Maggie looks like her Spitting Image puppet these days

[dune]

Well, they're talking the talk - let's see if they walk the walk. Unless of course they're scared of making the big decisions :smt102

 

Just watching the news I was struck by how much Maggie looks like her Spitting Image puppet these days

 

Of course they're scared about making the unpopular decisions that your Labour lot have made necessary, but unlike your Labour lot they will do what is best for the country. Savage cuts must be made and we are all in this together.

[Johnny Bognor]

also, isnt it true that more coal mines were closed be the previous labour govt than were closed under maggie tories..?

 

 

Shh! If you keep quiet enough, the socialists will conveniently forget this as it goes against their agenda. Get back on track....

 

Maggie = Boooooooooo

[bridge too far]

Of course they're scared about making the unpopular decisions that your Labour lot have made necessary, but unlike your Labour lot they will do what is best for the country. Savage cuts must be made and we are all in this together.

 

But you can bet your bottom dollar some of us will be more 'in this' than others.

 

I wonder if Georgie Porgie's buddies will suffer as much as your average man / woman in the street.

[revolution saint]

I'd turn this on it's head and argue what Maggie did right? Crushed the unions? Well probably neutered them and you could argue that was a good thing but the vendetta against the miners turned us into a shameful police state. What she failed to do was tackle the poor management of nationalised industries and instead privatised them. She promised us cheaper prices and better services but we got neither. The beneficiaries of privatisation got rich while we subsidised them. Privatisation also helped destroy our appenticeship system. Privatisation increased the gap between rich and poor.

 

She let people buy their own council houses but refused to let local authorities use the money received to build affordable houses. This helped create an artificial boom in the housing market as supply diminished.

 

Before the Falklands war she was the most unpopular prime minister in modern times - she was toast. She won an election on the back of patriotism and she was shrewd in that. She got lucky the next term in that she rode the wave of a global economic upsurge.

 

Maggie wasn't great she was lucky. She found the country in a mess, left the country in a mess and made her mates richer inbetween. She was a poster girl for the right but her debating skills were zero and her slogans laughable - "you turn if you want to, the lady's not for turning" could have been written on the back of a chardonnay soaked beermat.

[dune]

But you can bet your bottom dollar some of us will be more 'in this' than others.

 

I wonder if Georgie Porgie's buddies will suffer as much as your average man / woman in the street.

 

With your Labour lot when everyone would suffer.

[solentstars]

I'd turn this on it's head and argue what Maggie did right? Crushed the unions? Well probably neutered them and you could argue that was a good thing but the vendetta against the miners turned us into a shameful police state. What she failed to do was tackle the poor management of nationalised industries and instead privatised them. She promised us cheaper prices and better services but we got neither. The beneficiaries of privatisation got rich while we subsidised them. Privatisation also helped destroy our appenticeship system. Privatisation increased the gap between rich and poor.

 

She let people buy their own council houses but refused to let local authorities use the money received to build affordable houses. This helped create an artificial boom in the housing market as supply diminished.

 

Before the Falklands war she was the most unpopular prime minister in modern times - she was toast. She won an election on the back of patriotism and she was shrewd in that. She got lucky the next term in that she rode the wave of a global economic upsurge.

 

Maggie wasn't great she was lucky. She found the country in a mess, left the country in a mess and made her mates richer inbetween. She was a poster girl for the right but her debating skills were zero and her slogans laughable - "you turn if you want to, the lady's not for turning" could have been written on the back of a chardonnay soaked beermat.

good post sums her up.not a great prime minister compared to post war giants but a bit better then most since the war.

[rocknrollman no2]

The policy of Thatcherism means they believe by making those with loads of money much more richer,the wealth will trickle down to those at the bottom.

Although under Thatcher the rich just got much more richer.

[rocknrollman no2]

With your Labour lot when everyone would suffer.

Remind me who invented the NHS?

[Saint137]

Hope she dies soon

[JustMike]

ewww made me shudder! Still, at least the rich are ok

[Johnny Bognor]

Remind me who invented the NHS?

 

 

It was designed by cross party conscensus during WW2, by a cabinet led by Churchill.

 

Here is Churchill's 1945 election manifesto:

http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/con45.htm

 

See his promises under health.

 

Labour implemented it (because they won the election), but they didn't invent it all on their own (although they would have you believe otherwise).

 

Don't believe the hype.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Yes mate i lived all through those dark,bleak years and i even remember her stopping free school milk in the early seventies.

Tell me Dune,apart from Thatcher selling off all our public assets,destroying our mining industry,putting tens of thousands on the dole,openly welcoming Pinochet,the dictator from Chilie who murdered thousands of his own people into this country and trying to run the NHS into the ground,why do you think she was a good PM?

 

Pinochet = Fascist Dictator

Stanley = Fascist Dictator type admirer

Baroness Barmy = Almost there

Dune = Stanley

[EastleighSoulBoy]

i am amazed people bring up things as trivial as milk..

 

if she never even existed, would we still get free milk today..? would we have got free milk 10 years ago..?

of course bloody not

 

if maggie was so dreadful, why did she win 3 elections..?

 

For the same reason that Labour were in power for so long this time.

 

The opposition were unelectable.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Dune is thinking " I still would, you know "

 

Sorry, just had to do that!

[.comsaint]

This country was the poor man of europe when she took over the mess left behind by Labour. She enabled the country to prosper, she stood firm on N.Ireland, The Falklands and Russia, the stockmarket became the strongest in europe, she enabled business to prosper which allows society to prosper. The people who lost their jobs were in jobs that weren't needed. She stood firm against the unions who had crippled the country under Labour. Under Maggie - you were proud to be British - not ashamed like you are today thanks to Blair & Brown. She had bigger balls than some of the posters on here ffs!

[Saint George]

Well i did well thanks to Maggie...She opened doors for me that were locked tightly shut before she took over.....I knew my place under the Governments before her....I was a 'working class comrade' and always would be.

 

If it weren't for Maggy I'd probably still be living on a Council Estate in a dead end job, voting Labour and thinking the world owed me a living.......She made it possible for peeps who had something about them and were prepared to work hard to get out of the poverty trap....Something taken a lot more for granted today after she broke down the barriers.

 

I followed her advice and took advantage of the opportunities she created........and while my mates were down the pub playing darts and pool I was starting my own business, running a second self employed job 'and' flipping houses.....Never looked back after that.

 

Gawd bless yer Maggie.

[BadgerBadger]

i am amazed people bring up things as trivial as milk..

 

if she never even existed, would we still get free milk today..? would we have got free milk 10 years ago..?

of course bloody not

 

if maggie was so dreadful, why did she win 3 elections..?[/QUOTE]

 

Falklands, Neil Kinnock, blind faith

[AndyNorthernSaints]

again, I get that..if she destroyed the country, how on earth did she win 3 TIMES...?

 

She declared war on the working class people of this country destroying communities and peoples lives. Millions of people have a Thatcher fund built up over the years to help them celebrate when the ***** dies.

[CB Saint]

I'd turn this on it's head and argue what Maggie did right? Crushed the unions? Well probably neutered them and you could argue that was a good thing but the vendetta against the miners turned us into a shameful police state. What she failed to do was tackle the poor management of nationalised industries and instead privatised them. She promised us cheaper prices and better services but we got neither. The beneficiaries of privatisation got rich while we subsidised them. Privatisation also helped destroy our appenticeship system. Privatisation increased the gap between rich and poor.

 

She let people buy their own council houses but refused to let local authorities use the money received to build affordable houses. This helped create an artificial boom in the housing market as supply diminished.

 

Before the Falklands war she was the most unpopular prime minister in modern times - she was toast. She won an election on the back of patriotism and she was shrewd in that. She got lucky the next term in that she rode the wave of a global economic upsurge.

 

Maggie wasn't great she was lucky. She found the country in a mess, left the country in a mess and made her mates richer inbetween. She was a poster girl for the right but her debating skills were zero and her slogans laughable - "you turn if you want to, the lady's not for turning" could have been written on the back of a chardonnay soaked beermat.

 

To be fair so did Blair and Brown. Brown just forget to get off the train before it crashed.

[CB Saint]

Are there any statistics out the which some the average household income in real terms before and after Thatcher?

[trousers]

Are there any statistics out the which some the average household income in real terms before and after Thatcher?

Yes, and, like all 'stats' they can be spun whichever way one chooses...

[trousers]

This country was the poor man of europe when she took over the mess left behind by Labour. She enabled the country to prosper, she stood firm on N.Ireland, The Falklands and Russia, the stockmarket became the strongest in europe, she enabled business to prosper which allows society to prosper. The people who lost their jobs were in jobs that weren't needed. She stood firm against the unions who had crippled the country under Labour. Under Maggie - you were proud to be British - not ashamed like you are today thanks to Blair & Brown. She had bigger balls than some of the posters on here ffs!

+ 1

[svetigpung]

what was she doing at nr.10? Is she the new house-cleaner.

Daft bint!

[trousers]

what was she doing at nr.10? Is she the new house-cleaner.

Daft bint!

Probably for the same reason that both B-liar and Bottler Brown invited her back to No.10 when they became PM...it's called respect for a great leader.

[GenevaSaint]

I bought a good bottle of champagne the day she was ousted and I will open it in celebration the day she dies.

 

You don't mind sharing that champagne do you VFTT :-) State funeral when she dies I believe, hopefully we'll get it out of the way soon. If there's a public holiday (god forbid) I'll be going to work.

[saintfully]

I'm looking forward to the moment when I can finally pi.ss on her grave.

 

If there is such a thing as evil, she is it.

[trousers]

I'm looking forward to the moment when I can finally pi.ss on her grave.

 

If there is such a thing as evil, she is it.

And pi.ssing on someone's grave isn't "evil"?

 

That's what amuses me most about 'Thatcher haters', they accuse her of being a nasty piece of work whilst spouting a tirade of nasty vitriol themselves.

 

I feel an Alanis Morrisette song coming on...

 

Sigh

[trousers]

Question:

 

I lost £25k on my first house purchase in 1989 (cost me £60k, sold for £35k)

 

Should I have....

 

(a) felt sorry for myself and wallowed in my misfortune and moaned about Thatcher's policies for the next 3 decades

 

Or

 

(b) take responsibilty for my own actions (no-one forced me to take out a 100% mortgage at the top of a housing boom), dust myself off and start again without blaming the government for my woes

 

?

[Wes Tender]

Couldn't care a toss for all those who would dance on her grave when she dies.

 

I did the same when Wilson popped his clogs and similarly harbour the same thoughts about Healey, Prescott, the tub of lard Hattersley and Gordon Brown.

 

History will be the judge of her and she will be judged as a great Prime Minister, whether you whingeing lefties like it or not.

 

And for those who are left mentally scarred because she stopped free school milk, well, what can I say but poor Diddums. Life is so unfair, isn't it?

[solentstars]

This country was the poor man of europe when she took over the mess left behind by Labour. She enabled the country to prosper, she stood firm on N.Ireland, The Falklands and Russia, the stockmarket became the strongest in europe, she enabled business to prosper which allows society to prosper. The people who lost their jobs were in jobs that weren't needed. She stood firm against the unions who had crippled the country under Labour. Under Maggie - you were proud to be British - not ashamed like you are today thanks to Blair & Brown. She had bigger balls than some of the posters on here ffs!

what utter nonsense With regard to her ambition to curb inflation, she presided over a doubling of inflation between 1979 and 1980, from around 10 to over 20 per cent, and a return to 'double-digit' inflation at the end of the 1980s. Myth and reality - aren't they wonderful?

 

At one stage Thatcher thought the money supply and the rate of interest were the same thing. In an interview with Peter Jay she displayed little knowledge of the monetarism she had espoused. Jay subsequently joked that explaining monetarism to Thatcher was 'like showing Genghis Khan a map of the world'.

 

The results were disastrous, as unemployment soared from an inherited 1 million (when the Thatcherites proclaimed 'Britain isn't working') to 2 and then 3 million. Britain suffered its worst recession since the war: and, so far from enjoying an industrial or entrepreneurial miracle, we experienced one of the slowest rates of economic growth ever. When the (Nigel) Lawson Boom ended in tears, and Thatcher bowed to pressure to enter the European exchange rate mechanism in 1990 at a dangerously high exchange rate - she wanted it even higher - the stage was set for the next-worst recession since the war (the worst, in the south east, because the industrial north absorbed the brunt during the early 1980s).

 

For all the need for Britain to change its ways after the troubled times of the 1970s, the economy's growth rate under Thatcher did not even compare favourably with the bald old 'consensus' days.

[Mr Tickle]

In regards to the picture...where is a Muslim with a pack back when you need one!

[Joensuu]

Question:

 

I lost £25k on my first house purchase in 1989 (cost me £60k, sold for £35k)

 

Should I have....

 

(a) felt sorry for myself and wallowed in my misfortune and moaned about Thatcher's policies for the next 3 decades

 

Or

 

(b) take responsibilty for my own actions (no-one forced me to take out a 100% mortgage at the top of a housing boom), dust myself off and start again without blaming the government for my woes

 

?

 

Or

 

© take responsibilty for your own decision (both to buy and to sell), dust yourself off and start again, while justifiably feeling slightly resentful towards a government who helped to make your decisions backfire.

[Johnny Bognor]

Britain suffered its worst recession since the war: and, so far from enjoying an industrial or entrepreneurial miracle, we experienced one of the slowest rates of economic growth ever.

 

That's right, it was all HER fault as no one else suffered recession in 1980. Oh wait a minute........

 

 

 

Highly synchronized recessions

........ the study looks at episodes of highly synchronized recessions, defined as those where 10 or more countries were simultaneously in recession.

 

In addition to the current cycle, there were three other episodes of highly synchronized recessions: 1975, 1980, and 1992. These recessions were on average longer and deeper. Distinct from other episodes, the recoveries from these recessions feature much weaker export growth, especially if the United States is also in recession.

 

(Source: IMF http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2009/res041609b.htm)

 

 

 

When the (Nigel) Lawson Boom ended in tears, and Thatcher bowed to pressure to enter the European exchange rate mechanism in 1990 at a dangerously high exchange rate - she wanted it even higher - the stage was set for the next-worst recession since the war (the worst, in the south east, because the industrial north absorbed the brunt during the early 1980s).

 

 

That's right, it was all HER fault as no one else suffered recession in 1992. Oh wait a minute........

 

Highly synchronized recessions

........ the study looks at episodes of highly synchronized recessions, defined as those where 10 or more countries were simultaneously in recession.

 

In addition to the current cycle, there were three other episodes of highly synchronized recessions: 1975, 1980 and 1992. These recessions were on average longer and deeper. Distinct from other episodes, the recoveries from these recessions feature much weaker export growth, especially if the United States is also in recession.

 

(Source: IMF http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2009/res041609b.htm)

 

 

Catch my drift?

Edited 9 June, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[bridge too far]

Much like now then, JB. Is that what you're implying?

[saintfully]

Question:

 

I lost £25k on my first house purchase in 1989 (cost me £60k, sold for £35k)

 

Should I have....

 

(a) felt sorry for myself and wallowed in my misfortune and moaned about Thatcher's policies for the next 3 decades

 

Or

 

(b) take responsibilty for my own actions (no-one forced me to take out a 100% mortgage at the top of a housing boom), dust myself off and start again without blaming the government for my woes

 

?

 

I'd say (b) - but thats not really the point is it. And I would argue that, far from encouraging people to take responsibility for themselves, she fostered a nation of spivs desperately trying to make an easy buck rather than applying themselves to hard graft to earn a living.

 

As for 'evil', among the many reasons I hate Thatch is the sinking of the Belgrano, the assassinating of the three terrorists in the back on Gibraltar and the refusal to back sanctions vs South Africa. It was the complete disregard for the sanctity of human life that I found most disgusting.

 

And no, ****.ing on someones grave isn't evil - petty, pathetic and unpleasant certainly, but I'd have thought you'd recognise a distasteful joke when you saw one Trousers ? Must have got that wrong.

[saintfully]

Or

 

© take responsibilty for your own decision (both to buy and to sell), dust yourself off and start again, while justifiably feeling slightly resentful towards a government who helped to make your decisions backfire.

 

Yep.

 

Person in 'Things arn't black and white' shock!!!