Installment plans cost the club NOTHING

[StuRomseySaint]

I have no evidence at all. I was basing my opinion on posts in here pointing to 100 or so defaulters. If there were very few fair enough, your opinion then gains more substance. Your theory banks on previous season ticket holders having to attend individual 15 games for the club to make more money. That sounds quite a high figure.

 

In the end it matters not why he has done it, what matters is that it is a poor show, and we agree on that.

 

14 or 15 games, correct, but you have to remember that the people shafted are season ticket holders, people who if given the chance, would come to every single game... so will almost certainly go to more than 14 a season if we are top of the league, which is what Cortese is banking on.

[Chez]

14 or 15 games, correct, but you have to remember that the people shafted are season ticket holders, people who if given the chance, would come to every single game... so will almost certainly go to more than 14 a season if we are top of the league, which is what Cortese is banking on.

 

its a real gamble. I can honestly say that if I stopped buying a season ticket then there is a very good chance that I'd get out of the habit. I get the feeling that happens a lot, especially to ST holders of a certain age.

 

I have to say though if NC really wanted to move people from STs to individual game prices why didn't he close the gap between the cost of the two or indeed do away with STs alltogether. He's dropped half STs, so why not STs?

[OldNick]

14 or 15 games, correct, but you have to remember that the people shafted are season ticket holders, people who if given the chance, would come to every single game... so will almost certainly go to more than 14 a season if we are top of the league, which is what Cortese is banking on.

Personally i dont think it is as you perceive it Stu.

If fans have defaulted, add the administration costs (I think you estimated £50)to the club, I suspect htey have weighed it up and think it is better cut.

Most people would think if we dont do the installment plan ,there are many other ways for fans to get that money and frankly if the installment plan costs the club 30-50k it is a saving worth making.

[shurlock]

10% is not a small number but its not a massive one either - and who knows how many people within that band actually needed the installment plan because of tight financial circumstances or just happy to take advantage of another buy now pay later scheme because the interest rate was zero or negligible - I've certainly done the latter before (though not for the football).

 

There's alot of apocalyptic nonsense here - yes things could have been handled better but that's a point about process that doesnt justify the fury. Certainly when various schemes have been around ages, they grow to the status of entitlements, natural birthrights not what they really are - perks that are necessarily conditional but need sensitive handling when their terms are changed.

 

Those like me who are relaxed aren't indifferent to other supporters - and that's not because we're loaded (I've got train tickets to factor in on earnings that are pretty volatile). Ultimately they bear in mind the fact ST and matchday ticket prices remain competitive and reasonable by league standards - a bottom-line consideration that is getting forgotten in all the smoke-and-mirrors posturing and mutual recrimination.

 

I don't what know NC's motives are for abandoning the installment plan; but assuming it is to raise more revenue - doesnt it also matter what's done with it? whether its pocketed by the owner or reinvested back into the club? People should take all these things into account before reaching for the noose in their self-appointed kangaroo court.

 

And what about realising that those those who want to have their cake and eat it often end up with bowel-cramping indigestion. You can't get impatient about headline-grabbing signings that shoot us up the leagues on the one hand and want financial discipline and independence that never sees a return to the dark old days on the other. The impossibility of this position seems lost on some, however. Push comes to shove, it seems that quite a few people are more than happy to live for the day -to get dolled up, spread their legs and be doted on like some billionaire's plaything...regardless of the long-term consequences.

Edited 5 June, 2010 by shurlock

[StuRomseySaint]

personally i dont think it is as you perceive it stu.

If fans have defaulted, add the administration costs (i think you estimated £50)to the club, i suspect htey have weighed it up and think it is better cut.

Most people would think if we dont do the installment plan ,there are many other ways for fans to get that money and frankly if the installment plan costs the club 30-50k it is a saving worth making.

 

f*cking hell

 

there is no administration costs to the club, regardless of defaulters

 

the adminstration costs are picked up by the customer ( the fan )

 

how many times?!?!?

 

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

[StuRomseySaint]

10% is not a small number but its not a massive one either - and who knows how many people within that band actually needed the installment plan because of tight financial circumstances or just happy to take advantage of another buy now pay later scheme because the interest rate was zero or negligible - I've certainly done the latter before (though not for the football).

 

There's alot of apocalyptic nonsense here - yes things could have been handled better but that's a point about process that doesnt justify the fury. Certainly when various schemes have been around ages, they grow to the statys as entitlements, natural birthrights not what they really are - perks that are necessarily conditional but need sensitive handling when their terms are changed.

 

Those like me who are relaxed aren't indifferent to other supporters - and that's not because we're loaded (I've got train tickets to factor in on earnings that are pretty volatile). Ultimately they bear in mind the fact ST and matchday ticket prices remain competitive and reasonable by league standards - a bottom-line consideration that is getting forgotten in all the smoke-and-mirrors posturing and mutual recrimination.

 

I don't what know NC's motives are for abandoning the installment plan; but assuming it is to raise more revenue - doesnt it also matter what's done with it? whether its pocketed by the owner or reinvested back into the club? People should take all these things into account before reaching for the noose in their self-appointed kangaroo court.

 

And what about realising that those those who want to have their cake and eat it often end up with bowel-cramping indigestion. You can't get impatient about headline-grabbing signings that shoot us up the leagues on the one hand and want financial discipline and independence that never sees a return to the dark old days on the other. The impossibility of this position seems lost on some, however. Push comes to shove, it seems that quite a few people are more than happy to live for the day -to get dolled up, spread their legs and be doted on like some billionaire's plaything...regardless of the long-term consequences.

 

So by reading that, you would have been quite happy if they scrapped season tickets alltogether? As long as they invested in the team?

[end of an era2]

The title is misleading since someone has to pay Zebra finance - and if not the club then the fan. Let's face it if the club had announced that there would be an installment plan but it would cost a premium then the same bunch of moaners would be whinging on about that instead.

 

Can we please get over it?

 

 

 

Someone put up a link to a Zebra plan the other day,perhaps it was for Bristol City or someoene like that, the cost to the fan in that case was about £20 for a 380£ ticket paid over 6 months with some sort of deposit direct to the club concerned,the APR was about 18/19%..

[Chez]

Personally i dont think it is as you perceive it Stu.

If fans have defaulted, add the administration costs (I think you estimated £50)to the club, I suspect htey have weighed it up and think it is better cut.

Most people would think if we dont do the installment plan ,there are many other ways for fans to get that money and frankly if the installment plan costs the club 30-50k it is a saving worth making.

 

where do you get this £50 (£50k total) admi cost to the club from? Are you trying to say that it takes three members of staff to administer this for the whole year doing nothing else in that working year. There is minimal or no cost to the club.

[Smirking_Saint]

Honestly though, what is the point of taking this thread on and on through the pages ??

 

It is obvious that this action has caused a large portion of the fanbase (well at least the forum posting one) some aggro.

 

Why don't we all write to Luker/NC, not ****ing and moaning but explaining that it could have a negative effect and has caused friction and see what transpires ??

[Saint Fan CaM]

This debate has been going on for a week now. In this time an application for a 0% credit card would have been accepted and processed. I suspect a large proportion of the people affected by the change in credit plans by the club would be OK getting approval on a card and there's still plenty of time to get an ST.

 

If you don't think you would get approval for credit, why do you think the club should fund a credit risk for a very small minority of fans? It strikes me that there are some people who expect everything in life to be gifted to them on a plate without taking any responsibility. Even if that analysis is considered harsh, just take it on the chin like men and next season start saving early for the following season - i.e. start putting £60-£70/month away in Oct./Nov./Feb./Mar./Apr./May - miss out Xmas period.

[Smirking_Saint]

This debate has been going on for a week now. In this time an application for a 0% credit card would have been accepted and processed. I suspect a large proportion of the people affected by the change in credit plans by the club would be OK getting approval on a card and there's still plenty of time to get an ST.

 

If you don't think you would get approval for credit, why do you think the club should fund a credit risk for a very small minority of fans? It strikes me that there are some people who expect everything in life to be gifted to them on a plate without taking any responsibility. Even if that analysis is considered harsh, just take it on the chin like men and next season start saving early for the following season - i.e. start putting £60-£70/month away in Oct./Nov./Feb./Mar./Apr./May - miss out Xmas period.

 

Great post Cam

[shurlock]

So by reading that, you would have been quite happy if they scrapped season tickets alltogether? As long as they invested in the team?

 

Don't know how you reached that one but i would be happy to pay slightly more over a season provided (i) if it didnt stray too far from prevailing league prices (ii) it went directly on the team and close infrastructure (iii) I could be assured of the same spot week-in week-out.

 

That's one thing I find pretty odd - that in all the fire and fury, most people have concentrated quite narrowly on the monetary costs, not the fact that without a ST quite a few people would be forced to pack up sticks every week, move and not be able to sit or stand with their mates.

[StuRomseySaint]

where do you get this £50 (£50k total) admi cost to the club from? Are you trying to say that it takes three members of staff to administer this for the whole year doing nothing else in that working year. There is minimal or no cost to the club.

 

There is MASSIVE COST to the club.

 

For each defaulter there is.

 

There is - Cost of 5 minutes Ticket Office Staff time ( pro-rata 13k salary ) = 56p

 

During this time the ticket office staff will press a button on the computer to block the defaulter from buying tickets.

 

Cost of one sheet of A4 - 2p ( I priced up on the good quality stuff )

 

One envelope - 2p

 

One run of ink on printer - 3p

 

One 2nd class stamp -32p

 

One follow up telephone call - 5p

 

There you go... administration costs = £1

 

WOW - I can see why Cortese has decided the costs are far too much for him. A whole £1 to deal with a defaulter.

 

And if the defaulter does not pay, please add another £1 on for a member of staff to add them to the defaulters posters to be displayed in the turnstiles.

[stevegrant]

This debate has been going on for a week now. In this time an application for a 0% credit card would have been accepted and processed.

Less than 40% of people in this country would be eligible for a 0% credit card.

 

If you don't think you would get approval for credit, why do you think the club should fund a credit risk for a very small minority of fans?

Have you actually read the thread?

 

The club are not funding any credit risk, except in the situation like last season where they (perhaps naively, perhaps just due to time constraints) ran the scheme themselves rather than use an external company.

 

Assuming they do what every other club (except Rochdale) does and use an external agency to run the scheme, the club get 100% of the season ticket money up front. The external agency are then responsible for chasing any missed payments, etc (for which I believe they can apply for CCJs, blacklisting, etc), and they make their money from interest payments.

 

Only if the club insisted they wanted the scheme to be 0% (as they have done occasionally in the past, but not every year), THEN there would be some sort of cost to the club, probably as a percentage of the amount being paid. But even then, the club get all of the money owed to them up front, and the external agency does any chasing that is required.

[Turkish]

There is MASSIVE COST to the club.

 

For each defaulter there is.

 

There is - Cost of 5 minutes Ticket Office Staff time ( pro-rata 13k salary ) = 56p

 

During this time the ticket office staff will press a button on the computer to block the defaulter from buying tickets.

 

Cost of one sheet of A4 - 2p ( I priced up on the good quality stuff )

 

One envelope - 2p

 

One run of ink on printer - 3p

 

One 2nd class stamp -32p

 

One follow up telephone call - 5p

 

There you go... administration costs = £1

 

WOW - I can see why Cortese has decided the costs are far too much for him. A whole £1 to deal with a defaulter.

 

And if the defaulter does not pay, please add another £1 on for a member of staff to add them to the defaulters posters to be displayed in the turnstiles.

 

Stu you f**ing idiot, we are being run as a business, there is no way they would waste good quality A4 paper on a defaulter, your estimate is at least one pence over the odds.

[stevegrant]

Stu you f**ing idiot, we are being run as a business, there is no way they would waste good quality A4 paper on a defaulter, your estimate is at least one pence over the odds.

[StuRomseySaint]

This debate has been going on for a week now. In this time an application for a 0% credit card would have been accepted and processed. I suspect a large proportion of the people affected by the change in credit plans by the club would be OK getting approval on a card and there's still plenty of time to get an ST.

 

If you don't think you would get approval for credit, why do you think the club should fund a credit risk for a very small minority of fans? It strikes me that there are some people who expect everything in life to be gifted to them on a plate without taking any responsibility. Even if that analysis is considered harsh, just take it on the chin like men and next season start saving early for the following season - i.e. start putting £60-£70/month away in Oct./Nov./Feb./Mar./Apr./May - miss out Xmas period.

 

What information do you have at hand about the demographic of the people on the payment plan? Or are you just talking out of your @rse?

 

I will keep repeating this till it is blue in the face because some of you are showing yourselves up to having a complete narrow mind, either that or being stupid.

 

- The club does not carry any credit risk.

 

- There is not credit.

 

- The club does not pay a penny.

 

- The Saints fan pays upfront.

 

- There is no credit.

 

- It is not a credit agreement.

 

- The club do not pay a penny.

 

- It is not a loan.

[shurlock]

What information do you have at hand about the demographic of the people on the payment plan? Or are you just talking out of your @rse?

 

I will keep repeating this till it is blue in the face because some of you are showing yourselves up to having a complete narrow mind, either that or being stupid.

 

- The club does not carry any credit risk.

 

- There is not credit.

 

- The club does not pay a penny.

 

- The Saints fan pays upfront.

 

- There is no credit.

 

- It is not a credit agreement.

 

- The club do not pay a penny.

 

- It is not a loan.

 

How the f**k then do Zebra make their money with a group of debtors that potentially has a high risk of default? I accept that the club has nothing to do with the scheme, but that makes it even more crazy why a profit-making third party would be in the charity business. The customer pays a premium - an interest rate call it what you will. And no doubt its pretty punitive.

 

Under these circumstances, why would a club bless or advertise one installment plan, scheme, credit provider -call it what you will- over another (that's what they are effectively doing even if they have no formal responsibility under the scheme)? Why give a bunch of backalley shysters easy pickings, especially when some fans are myopic and are blind to the sting in the tail.

 

Don't know the figures but aren't there cheaper deals for fans if they just shopped around. Maybe somebody can do the crunching and come back with a price comparison for different kinds of loans. I doubt the likes of Zebra would come out very favourably and perhaps traditional loans, even though they are not marketed as ST guff (at least their portfolio would be more diversified), would not be half-bad.

 

You would think that some here are on the take...

[StuRomseySaint]

How the f**k then do Zebra make their money with a group of debtors that potentially has a high risk of default? I accept that the club has nothing to do with the scheme, but that makes it even more crazy why a profit-making third party would be in the charity business. The customer pays a premium - an interest rate call it what you will. And no doubt its pretty punitive.

 

Under these circumstances, why would a club bless or advertise one installment plan, scheme, credit provider -call it what you will- over another (that's what they are effectively doing even if they have no formal responsibility under the scheme)? Why give a bunch of backalley shysters easy pickings, especially when some fans are myopic and are blind to the sting in the tail.

 

Don't know the figures but aren't there cheaper deals for fans if they just shopped around. Maybe somebody can do the crunching and come back with a price comparison for different kinds of loans. I doubt the likes of Zebra would come out very favourably and perhaps traditional loans, even though they are not marketed as ST guff (at least their portfolio would be more diversified), would not be half-bad.

 

You would think that some here are on the take...

 

I really do give up on some people.

 

Can I make a suggestion, when people come and view this thread can they at least read the original post before replying.

 

This company is just one example, but as the people who run the Installment plans for Man Utd, Man City, Spurs and even P*mpey, I am sure they would protest they are not backalley shysters.

 

As for loans, I can't be arsed to explain the reasons why many people wouldn't qualify.

 

As I said, I have explained how Zebra collect their administration fees time and time again on this thread, even in the original post. They are not a loan company with regards to season tickets and their APR on loans is completely irrelevent!!!! IT IS NOT A LOAN FOR THEIR SEASON TICKET SERVICE

 

They simply take an interest fee off the customer which they keep for the administration and collection of the premiums on behalf of SFC, thye then pay SFC the full season ticket installment on a monthly basis.

 

The net result is the customer ends up paying around a fiver extra a month for being able to pay in installments.

 

It's not rocket science, is it?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Less than 40% of people in this country would be eligible for a 0% credit card.

 

 

Have you actually read the thread?

 

The club are not funding any credit risk, except in the situation like last season where they (perhaps naively, perhaps just due to time constraints) ran the scheme themselves rather than use an external company.

 

Assuming they do what every other club (except Rochdale) does and use an external agency to run the scheme, the club get 100% of the season ticket money up front. The external agency are then responsible for chasing any missed payments, etc (for which I believe they can apply for CCJs, blacklisting, etc), and they make their money from interest payments.

 

Only if the club insisted they wanted the scheme to be 0% (as they have done occasionally in the past, but not every year), THEN there would be some sort of cost to the club, probably as a percentage of the amount being paid. But even then, the club get all of the money owed to them up front, and the external agency does any chasing that is required.

 

 

Steve, I accept that there are a small minority of people that are affected adversely by the decision. That's life and it's tough, but as you and other's have pointed out the credit crunch has affected many organisations and individuals and action is often painful for someone in the food chain.

 

In terms of the 40% you quote, I could argue then that 60% affected by the club's decision could therefore be eligible for a credit card?!

 

The clubs decision to remove the 0% installments was based clearly on last seasons costs (I've heard £40-£50k mentioned). I do agree that perhaps the club could have looked at other options, however do we really think that Nicola (a highly respected financier handling £millions) has not given all reasonable thought to the matter? Even taking up the option of an independant credit company (if there is one available) will cost the club something in administration I would suspect - if that's say £10k/year for example and that's what's needed to balance the books, then it's a cost worth saving if the club is being run within it's means. Or perhaps NC should sack a junior groundsman instead?

[shurlock]

I really do give up on some people.

 

Can I make a suggestion, when people come and view this thread can they at least read the original post before replying.

 

This company is just one example, but as the people who run the Installment plans for Man Utd, Man City, Spurs and even P*mpey, I am sure they would protest they are not backalley shysters.

 

As for loans, I can't be arsed to explain the reasons why many people wouldn't qualify.

 

As I said, I have explained how Zebra collect their administration fees time and time again on this thread, even in the original post. They are not a loan company with regards to season tickets and their APR on loans is completely irrelevent!!!! IT IS NOT A LOAN FOR THEIR SEASON TICKET SERVICE

 

They simply take an interest fee off the customer which they keep for the administration and collection of the premiums on behalf of SFC, thye then pay SFC the full season ticket installment on a monthly basis.

 

The net result is the customer ends up paying around a fiver extra a month for being able to pay in installments.

 

It's not rocket science, is it?

 

So on a £350-400 season ticket, you pay around £50 over a season? or whatever they mean by "interest-bearing finance" (from their website). Not cheap. Why would the club recognise and approve this scheme and not any other, especially as there are possibly cheaper ways to secure finance on the market - seems like free advertising for what might be a sh*tty deal. And if people like the convenience and don't want to shop around, why can't they just go to places like Zebra without the club's endorsement as these outfits themselves seem to be promoting?

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/football.htm

[RonManager]

I really do give up on some people.

 

Can I make a suggestion, when people come and view this thread can they at least read the original post before replying.

 

This company is just one example, but as the people who run the Installment plans for Man Utd, Man City, Spurs and even P*mpey, I am sure they would protest they are not backalley shysters.

 

As for loans, I can't be arsed to explain the reasons why many people wouldn't qualify.

 

As I said, I have explained how Zebra collect their administration fees time and time again on this thread, even in the original post. They are not a loan company with regards to season tickets and their APR on loans is completely irrelevent!!!! IT IS NOT A LOAN FOR THEIR SEASON TICKET SERVICE

 

They simply take an interest fee off the customer which they keep for the administration and collection of the premiums on behalf of SFC, thye then pay SFC the full season ticket installment on a monthly basis.

 

The net result is the customer ends up paying around a fiver extra a month for being able to pay in installments.

 

It's not rocket science, is it?

 

Welcome back StuRopleySaint.

 

I'd just like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on the mental stamina and fortitude you have shown on this thread, enduring all stones and brick-bats thrown at you with (mostly) good humour and patience.

 

I'll wager that when you first set out to undertake a simple, well-meaning piece of research to try to clarify matters for both fan and club, you had little idea that it would end up in a minor war breaking out.

[Saint Fan CaM]

What information do you have at hand about the demographic of the people on the payment plan? Or are you just talking out of your @rse?

 

I will keep repeating this till it is blue in the face because some of you are showing yourselves up to having a complete narrow mind, either that or being stupid.

 

- The club does not carry any credit risk.

 

- There is not credit.

 

- The club does not pay a penny.

 

- The Saints fan pays upfront.

 

- There is no credit.

 

- It is not a credit agreement.

 

- The club do not pay a penny.

 

- It is not a loan.

 

If your 'scheme' is totally independant of the club - i.e. the club have nothing to do with the scheme and no liability to costs - why can't these fans just go get on a similar credit scheme independantly??? If it is because they do not have the money to do so, then they should not be applying for credit in the 1st place surely? IF there was any kind of link between the club and Zebra or whoever, then there will be administration costs to the club at least.

[StuRomseySaint]

Steve, I accept that there are a small minority of people that are affected adversely by the decision. That's life and it's tough, but as you and other's have pointed out the credit crunch has affected many organisations and individuals and action is often painful for someone in the food chain.

 

In terms of the 40% you quote, I could argue then that 60% affected by the club's decision could therefore be eligible for a credit card?!

 

The clubs decision to remove the 0% installments was based clearly on last seasons costs (I've heard £40-£50k mentioned). I do agree that perhaps the club could have looked at other options, however do we really think that Nicola (a highly respected financier handling £millions) has not given all reasonable thought to the matter? Even taking up the option of an independant credit company (if there is one available) will cost the club something in administration I would suspect - if that's say £10k/year for example and that's what's needed to balance the books, then it's a cost worth saving if the club is being run within it's means. Or perhaps NC should sack a junior groundsman instead?

 

Seriously, how many times before it gets through... and I find myself having to reply every single time you or someone else mentions administration costs, because otherwise the thread will change as more people jump on and don't look at any posts other than the last few.

 

THERE IS NO ADMINISTRATION COSTS FOR THE CLUB

 

He quoted less than 40% COULD get a 0% credit card... the number is between 30% and 40% and I got this figure off someone who works in risk management for HSBC, so funnily enough less than 40% of the UK population qualify for one.

 

Now take the demographic and income of the people who most likely to rely on a payment plan for their season ticket... what percentage of them do you think would qualify for one?

 

Que all the Billy Big Balls ( word of the week ) coming on here and stating if people need to pay it off in installments then they are not wealthy enough to deserve to watch Saints blah blah blah

 

The club does not need to offer 0%, there are plenty of other options which do not carry any cost to the club, there is no excuse.

[Saint Fan CaM]

So on a £350-400 season ticket, you pay around £50 over a season? or whatever they mean by "interest-bearing finance" (from their website). Not cheap. Why would the club recognise and approve this scheme and not any other, especially as there are possibly cheaper ways to secure finance on the market - seems like free advertising for what might be a sh*tty deal. And if people like the convenience and don't want to shop around, why can't they just go to places like Zebra without the club's endorsement as these outfits themselves seem to be promoting?

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/football.htm

 

 

At last, some common sense!

[up and away]

Exactly... it's all about squeezing as much money out of Saints fans as possible. I am absolutely amazed that nobody can see it.

 

The club don't want season ticket holders, they want 25,000 people paying on a game by game basis = more revenue.

 

Cortese is trying to build a 'RyanAir' model football club... I wonder how much our new 'in-house' catering will cost next season as well.... and the 'special 125th' shirt....

 

Squeezing as much money out of the Saints fans as possible, you really have grabbed the thick stick with both hands. There is a administration cost to purchasing tickets. What Cortese has done is to put that cost back to the specific purchaser, not spread it onto other season ticket holders who are not responsible. The costs are born by those that create the administration required. If Cortese was trying to screw the maximum from fans, he would not be trying to make the cheapest tickets the best and easiest option. As far as Zebra are concerned, what's to stop them still offering season tickets to fans? Unless you have not factored in the safeguards and additional costs which they would expect the club to bear?

 

You could mask all the booking fees very simply by just adding a fixed charge into the price of an individual ticket, but that would subsidise the individual purchaser from those that bought multiple tickets per transaction. What the club has done is the fairest method of applying costs to those that generate that cost, not subsidising them by others.

 

It's more than possible the club have missed something here, but I am struggling to see what? If you cannot get a loan or finance from any other source with what is available on the open market, why would the club want to take on those? This has not come over very well, of that I am well aware, but when you look at all the detail it impossible not to see the fairness in each aspect.

[RonManager]

It's more than possible the club have missed something here, but I am struggling to see what?

 

The only thing they have missed is giving prior warning. A short announcement a few months ago with some small explanation would have saved all this grief.

 

'Forewarned is Forearmed'.

[StuRomseySaint]

So on a £350-400 season ticket, you pay around £50 over a season? or whatever they mean by "interest-bearing finance" (from their website). Not cheap. Why would the club recognise and approve this scheme and not any other, especially as there are possibly cheaper ways to secure finance on the market - seems like free advertising for what might be a sh*tty deal. And if people like the convenience and don't want to shop around, why can't they just go to places like Zebra without the club's endorsement as these outfits themselves seem to be promoting?

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/football.htm

 

Quick answer.

 

Because there are only 2 respected companies that offer this service.

 

Zebra Finance

 

and

 

Premium Credit

 

The club has to enter into an agreement with only one company, as they have done with Premium Credit Ltd for the last few years ( apart from last year ).

 

Zebra Finance collect the premiums on a monthly basis on behalf of SFC and collect and administration fee for doing so, which is generally hidden in the interest.

 

Each month, based on a £65 a month payback, Zebra takes a fiver and gives the £60 to SFC

 

That's all there is to it. It really is that simple.

 

If someone defaults, as part of Zebras job, they chase up the payments and can impose CCJ's etc and/or hand the account back to SFC

[Saint Fan CaM]

The club does not need to offer 0%, there are plenty of other options which do not carry any cost to the club, there is no excuse.

 

At last we agree Stu. There are plenty of other options which do not carry cost to the club, but which require individuals to arrange. There is no excuse!

[Smirking_Saint]

Stu, well done mate for going away and doing the research, fair play to you, most just open their mouths without doing any form of research whatsoever.

 

The problem i see on here is that many believe it is their god given right to recieve a payment option for a product that they cannot actually afford. This is not the case at all. It is the clubs seat and the clubs ticket to sell, they have released competetive rates for this service and are obviously trying to make the club self-sustainable in relation to our ambitions, this i applaud.

 

I appreciate that the club made a mistake in not pre-warning many fans on the fact that the scheme was being scrapped however that is the issue and nothing more.

 

As fans we have no devine right for the ST's to be made affordable to all, no premium product in the world is like that really. If there is a product that is over the monthly disposeable then means need to be sourced in order to afford that, either through saving, or loans or CC's. That decision is to be made by the consumer, not the company providing the product. If it cannot be afforded then so be it.

 

As for the majority of the fanbase not being able to afford it OR be able to get a decent financial option to help with payments that just doesn't have any basis in reality. I would say there was a very small amount of fans that cannot do either, and if that is the case then, unfortunately they need to accept that they cannot afford the product and learn for next year.

 

The problem being that as fans we know that the ST's need to be purchased around this time every year, and so why were they not saving for it ?? The answer is that there was a wrong assumption that a payment scheme would be provided, now i agree that the club is in the wrong by not putting a warning out but it cannot be held responsible for what is inadequate financial planning.

 

Conclusion - Get over it, learn for next year and don't assume things, if a ST cannot be afforded this year go game for game and save some per month for next year. Don't be taken in by the conspiracy theorists, it just is not true.

[StuRomseySaint]

At last we agree Stu. There are plenty of other options which do not carry cost to the club, but which require individuals to arrange. There is no excuse!

 

You're getting tedious now.

[Saint Fan CaM]

The only thing they have missed is giving prior warning. A short announcement a few months ago with some small explanation would have saved all this grief.

 

'Forewarned is Forearmed'.

 

I do agree with this in fairness. I was not aware the Charter had effectively been amended and this is the biggest disappointment for me with regards to on-going supporter relations. However, in the grand scheme of things, do I care about this more than I do about the players signed and the results next season? Simple answer is "no".

[StuRomseySaint]

I do agree with this in fairness. I was not aware the Charter had effectively been amended and this is the biggest disappointment for me with regards to on-going supporter relations. However, in the grand scheme of things, do I care about this more than I do about the players signed and the results next season? Simple answer is "no".

 

No you don't.

 

But there is a large group of Saints fans, which runs into four figures that do.

 

And the reasons the club have given for removing the Installment plan are complete made up b*llocks. Are you not interested in why the club is feeding fans lies? Regardless of that the subject matter is?

[Smirking_Saint]

You're getting tedious now.

 

Not really, the club has no committment to give affordable payment schemes to fans for a premium product.

 

There is a reason why there are risk management positions at major banks etc, that is because some people cannot afford the repayments when previous financial history and affordability is calculated.

 

So why is the club committed to providing what is essentially a credit facility to people that would not qualify for one on the world market ? :smt102

[Smirking_Saint]

No you don't.

 

But there is a large group of Saints fans, which runs into four figures that do.

 

And the reasons the club have given for removing the Installment plan are complete made up b*llocks. Are you not interested in why the club is feeding fans lies? Regardless of that the subject matter is?

 

But to be completely fair to both sides, you have only researched one club credit facility in Zebra finance, you don't know for sure the club is telling porkies !

[Saint Fan CaM]

You're getting tedious now.

 

Well one persons tedium is anothers persons valid viewpoint I suppose. Balanced views are what makes for a rich and diverse world. It's the abuse that generates that is difficult to stomach - wouldn't you agree? :cool:

[shurlock]

Quick answer.

 

Because there are only 2 respected companies that offer this service.

 

Zebra Finance

 

and

 

Premium Credit

 

The club has to enter into an agreement with only one company, as they have done with Premium Credit Ltd for the last few years ( apart from last year ).

 

Zebra Finance collect the premiums on a monthly basis on behalf of SFC and collect and administration fee for doing so, which is generally hidden in the interest.

 

Each month, based on a £65 a month payback, Zebra takes a fiver and gives the £60 to SFC

 

That's all there is to it. It really is that simple.

 

If someone defaults, as part of Zebras job, they chase up the payments and can impose CCJ's etc and/or hand the account back to SFC

 

Think you're complicating something that is somewhat simpler and cruder than you believe it is- the club need not be involved in any of this, the assumption that they do is the main reason why Cortese and the club are getting unfair flack. The relationship is between the individual and the provider - and between them only

 

 

People can get fill in this form

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/seasonticketappform.pdf

 

and hey-presto they're up and running - btw, the form is exactly the same if you hit any of the club badges - its ultimately the same package and relationship - endorsement or no endorsement.

 

P.S. A loan is a loan whatever you call it - you are required to return more than you borrowed, its interest whatever you call it. A turd is a turd whatever you call it....

Edited 5 June, 2010 by shurlock
the idea that only two respected companies offer this service....uggh cough a loan:)

[StuRomseySaint]

Well one persons tedium is anothers persons valid viewpoint I suppose. Balanced views are what makes for a rich and diverse world. It's the abuse that generates that is difficult to stomach - wouldn't you agree? :cool:

 

But you are not balancing. You are speculating and coming up with unrealistic solutions.

[StuRomseySaint]

But to be completely fair to both sides, you have only researched one club credit facility in Zebra finance, you don't know for sure the club is telling porkies !

 

There are only 2 season ticket finance companies. I would say that if the club wanted to have a plan, they would speak to both, would you not?

[Saint Fan CaM]

No you don't.

 

But there is a large group of Saints fans, which runs into four figures that do.

 

And the reasons the club have given for removing the Installment plan are complete made up b*llocks. Are you not interested in why the club is feeding fans lies? Regardless of that the subject matter is?

 

Please do not tell me what I do or do not think.

 

Can we see the list that shows four figure numbers of Saints fans that have been affected to the point that they cannot purchase their ticket at no extra cost to published prices please? I'll not be holding my breath.

 

Not seen any lies - just poor communication in the light of the Charter not applying beyond last season. Mountain and molehill spring to mind TBH.

[StuRomseySaint]

Please do not tell me what I do or do not think.

 

Can we see the list that shows four figure numbers of Saints fans that have been affected to the point that they cannot purchase their ticket at no extra cost to published prices please? I'll not be holding my breath.

 

Not seen any lies - just poor communication in the light of the Charter not applying beyond last season. Mountain and molehill spring to mind TBH.

 

You have not seen any lies? You are retarded.

 

You are trolling so I will stick you on ignore from now on.

 

And let's wait to see the final number of Saints STH's ... then you will see a 4 figure sum, I am certain of that.

 

We could have had near on 20k STH's this season with a fan friendly pricing structure... we will be lucky to get 10k now.

[Gorgiesaint]

But you are not balancing. You are speculating and coming up with unrealistic solutions.

 

So are you when it comes to saying the reasons that the club have given are wrong.

 

Because there are only 2 respected companies that offer this service.

 

Zebra Finance

 

and

 

Premium Credit

 

Has anyone asked why there are only 2 companies that offer this type of facility? I'll speculate because its hard business to make money from as the default rate is high - given that many of the people who take this opportunity cannot get credit from any other source. Whether extending credit to those types of individuals is the right thing I'll leave for others to argue...

 

I really do give up on some people.

 

....

 

As I said, I have explained how Zebra collect their administration fees time and time again on this thread, even in the original post. They are not a loan company with regards to season tickets and their APR on loans is completely irrelevent!!!! IT IS NOT A LOAN FOR THEIR SEASON TICKET SERVICE

 

....

 

It's not rocket science, is it?

 

No it's not, but getting your facts right is fairly crucial in an argument. The quote below is from the Zebra Finance website:

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/football.htm

 

We provide a simple and convenient way to pay for your season ticket by 10 monthly installments, providing loans from £100 to £2000+which is recognised & approved by all the clubs shown below!

 

Of the thousands that need this facility (apparently) has anyone actually spoken to Zebra Finance to see if they will take an application for a Saints season ticket?

[rocknrollman no2]

Not really, the club has no committment to give affordable payment schemes to fans for a premium product.

 

There is a reason why there are risk management positions at major banks etc, that is because some people cannot afford the repayments when previous financial history and affordability is calculated.

 

So why is the club committed to providing what is essentially a credit facility to people that would not qualify for one on the world market ? :smt102

 

If it wasnt a good idea,then why is it theres only a couple of clubs in this league that dont offer installments?

Perhaps all the other clubs have realised its a good and RISK FREE way to get more fans to be ST holders?

[shurlock]

So are you when it comes to saying the reasons that the club have given are wrong.

 

 

 

Has anyone asked why there are only 2 companies that offer this type of facility? I'll speculate because its hard business to make money from as the default rate is high - given that many of the people who take this opportunity cannot get credit from any other source. Whether extending credit to those types of individuals is the right thing I'll leave for others to argue...

 

 

 

No it's not, but getting your facts right is fairly crucial in an argument. The quote below is from the Zebra Finance website:

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/football.htm

 

 

 

Of the thousands that need this facility (apparently) has anyone actually spoken to Zebra Finance to see if they will take an application for a Saints season ticket?

 

Agree 100% (apart from the idea that this is specialised finance provided only by two companies - a loan is a loan whether its for a ST or cosmetic surgery which Zebra also offer loans for)

 

As above:

 

People can get fill in this form

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/seasonticketappform.pdf

 

and hey-presto they're up and running - btw, the form is exactly the same if you hit any of the club badges - its ultimately the same package and relationship - endorsement or no endorsement. The club is irrelevant - the idea that it must be party to the relationship is the main reason for the misunderstanding and misplaced finger-pointing.

 

Was thinking of it giving a go for the purposes of science and enlightenment but think RomseyStu should be the guinea-pig.

Edited 5 June, 2010 by shurlock

[StuRomseySaint]

So are you when it comes to saying the reasons that the club have given are wrong.

 

How am I speculating? They said the reasons where the rise in administration costs... I have proven that is b*llocks, not by speculating but by speaking to the very people that offer this service! I have the figures in front of me.... it doesn't have to cost a penny! That is a FACT!

 

 

Has anyone asked why there are only 2 companies that offer this type of facility? I'll speculate because its hard business to make money from as the default rate is high - given that many of the people who take this opportunity cannot get credit from any other source. Whether extending credit to those types of individuals is the right thing I'll leave for others to argue...

 

Once again, for about the 40th time on this thread.

 

IT IS NOT CREDIT

 

The whole idea of March Madness was not only to get season tickets in early for summer revenue, but so that the majority of the payments will be paid off before the season starts.

 

No it's not, but getting your facts right is fairly crucial in an argument. The quote below is from the Zebra Finance website:

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/football.htm

 

 

Of the thousands that need this facility (apparently) has anyone actually spoken to Zebra Finance to see if they will take an application for a Saints season ticket?

 

That's not how it works, once again I have explained a million times exactly how it works. What is so complicated?

 

 

I am just repeating myself over and over and over again. I am dealing in FACTS, the FACT is that Zebra Finance can offer a service to SFC at no cost to them, collecting season ticket premiums on their behalf.

 

Do not get mixed up with other finance and loan options which Zebra may offer... this is not what I have spoken to them about, I have spoken to them about their Season Ticket Finance packages where they administrate and collect installment plan premiums on behalf of football clubs.

 

Its nothing to do with personal loans, it's not a loan, the customer is paying IN ADVANCE for the product in the same way you would pay for your car insurance in installments in advance.

[Gorgiesaint]

For all I've said, there is an issue here and that's the customer charter or whatever it was called. Part of that was about communication with the fans. Whatever the rights & wrongs of not having an installment scheme, the lack of communication needs to be raised at the next fans forum (assuming there is one).

[Toomer]

f*cking hell

 

there is no administration costs to the club, regardless of defaulters

 

 

the adminstration costs are picked up by the customer ( the fan )

 

how many times?!?!?

 

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

 

Stu, if it is 6 months interest free cost of item/ticket £300.00, customer/fan pays £300.00. The finance company will want a payment/service charge to provide the service, the service charge will be passed onto the seller, in this case the club.

[Smirking_Saint]

I am just repeating myself over and over and over again. I am dealing in FACTS, the FACT is that Zebra Finance can offer a service to SFC at no cost to them, collecting season ticket premiums on their behalf.

 

Do not get mixed up with other finance and loan options which Zebra may offer... this is not what I have spoken to them about, I have spoken to them about their Season Ticket Finance packages where they administrate and collect installment plan premiums on behalf of football clubs.

 

Its nothing to do with personal loans, it's not a loan, the customer is paying IN ADVANCE for the product in the same way you would pay for your car insurance in installments in advance.

 

Ok then Stu, Email Luker with the information you have found and ask why they have not looked into Zebra finance then ?? See what he says ??

 

Why not, you have nothing to lose, just post the response here so we all know once and for all.

[StuRomseySaint]

Agree 100% (apart from the idea that this is specialised finance provided only by two companies - a loan is a loan whether its for a ST or cosmetic surgery which Zebra also offer loans for)

 

As above:

 

People can get fill in this form

 

http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/seasonticketappform.pdf

 

and hey-presto they're up and running - btw, the form is exactly the same if you hit any of the club badges - its ultimately the same package and relationship - endorsement or no endorsement. The club is irrelevant - the idea that it must be party to the relationship is the main reason for the misunderstanding and misplaced finger-pointing.

 

Was thinking of it giving a go for the purposes of science and enlightenment but think RomseyStu should be the guinea-pig.

 

Missing the point - again.

 

Not only that, but speculating again.

 

The packages are not the same with regards to installment plans for each club. Each one is bespoke. The application form might be generic, but where on there does it state the terms are generic? It doesn't.

 

If you are going to try and put things across as fact, can I suggest that you do the same as I did, secret shop Zebra and get the FACTS from the horses mouth?

 

I don't need to use that application form, I know they do not offer Season Ticket finance for Southampton FC, although they may offer personal loans to the value of the ticket, with high interest rates, and obviously, subject to credit checks... but that's not the point I am making...

[StuRomseySaint]

Stu, if it is 6 months interest free cost of item/ticket £300.00, customer/fan pays £300.00. The finance company will want a payment/service charge to provide the service, the service charge will be passed onto the seller, in this case the club.

 

I have said fookin dozens of times on here and including in the original post what the fakkin deal is and how it is made up.

 

Either there is a high proportion of retards commenting on this thread, or you are all on a wind-up...