Thedelldays Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 Is it tho? I pointed out last week that we have different types of fans. Dave Benson Phillips was kind enough to post numerous times since then supporting this view. As a football club we have many fans who are, funnily enough, fans of football. What that fan wants is to see the team winning football games (stick with me, I know this is breathtaking stuff). Football fans want to see the team do well and get promoted back to the Prem. For this section of fans Cortese has been an amazing success. From a team managed by the Dutch duo and comprised of kids and poor journeymen, look what he has done. Top striker in the league the season before last, signed him. Top striker at Xmas in the L1, signed him. One of the top CBs from a division above us, signed him. Premier League calibre manager who was managing in an FA Cup final only a few years back, signed him. We went to Wembley, won a Cup and have to be regarded as one of the favs to go up this season. For football fans Cortese gets an A+. However.... there are also what I called the social fans. The arrive late (drunk) and leave early brigade who love an afternoon drinking with their mates but couldn't identify a decent LB if kicked up the a rse by one. For this group of fans Cortese has done very little in fact he could be seen to be actively discouraging them from attending. Most Socials aren't of the highest income so the removal of the payment plan hit them hard. Also the short notice of the pre-season tour really hit their plans for a Summer's drinking in Switzerland. To be honest, I can see little that Cortese has done for our Social fans. So, as I said, the fact the concentrating on the football side of things and less on placating the Socials could you summed this up very well IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 I will answer this nice and simple for you Dulldays. Championship wages. The thing you fail to grasp is last season we had a top 8 Championship revenue as well. We might be in League 1 by name, but our revenue is a decent Championship one. so basically, you have no idea the costs involved in running saints last year...none at all really.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 so basically, you have no idea the costs involved in running saints last year...none at all really.... Like I said, I don't believe we were bankrolled last year. We have a decent championship turnover... that is clear as day to see. Let's just wait till the accounts come out Dulldays, then I can show you I was right and you were wrong... then you can ignore it like a little girl so you don't have to be the man and admit you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 Like I said, I don't believe we were bankrolled last year. We have a decent championship turnover... that is clear as day to see. Let's just wait till the accounts come out Dulldays, then I can show you I was right and you were wrong... then you can ignore it like a little girl so you don't have to be the man and admit you were wrong. is your head up steves arse that much that you continue with your petty snipes..? infact, no need to answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surman4no7shirt Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 As I've said a few times, I would assume that Cortese thinks a high % of our fanbase are utter morons. He would be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 July, 2010 As I've said a few times, I would assume that Cortese thinks a high % of our fanbase are utter morons. And a far higher %age are pussy cats ripe to be exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 July, 2010 is your head up steves arse that much that you continue with your petty snipes..? infact, no need to answer Who's Steve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 Like I said, I don't believe we were bankrolled last year. We have a decent championship turnover... that is clear as day to see. Let's just wait till the accounts come out Dulldays, then I can show you I was right and you were wrong... then you can ignore it like a little girl so you don't have to be the man and admit you were wrong. Yes but we also have a decent championship expenditure aswell.... And with the quality of our playing staff, managerial staff and coaching staff that is plain for all to see too ! I am convinced that we have been bankrolled to a large degree - Otherwise how can our gates and third tier ( not championship) division TV income pay for all this quality we have acquired in the past 12 months - Unless of course we are doing a Poopey and not paying the taxman !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surman4no7shirt Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 Yes but we also have a decent championship expenditure aswell.... And with the quality of our playing staff, managerial staff and coaching staff that is plain for all to see too ! I am convinced that we have been bankrolled to a large degree - Otherwise how can our gates and third tier ( not championship) division TV income pay for all this quality we have acquired in the past 12 months - Unless of course we are doing a Poopey and not paying the taxman !!! How dare you! You obviously haven't read this thread properly! If the thread doesn't interest you then don't post on it! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 The question is not Cortese or Lowe, as Lowe had gone befor he came along (bringing ML's money with him). It was Cortese, Pinnicle or no Club. Cortese's not perfect, but he's a damn sight better than the other 2 options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 is your head up steves arse that much that you continue with your petty snipes..? infact, no need to answer Twice I have made you look stupid, twice rather than be a man, you have just refused to accept you were wrong. Like I said, when the accounts come out then we can see who is right and who is wrong. My gut feeling is we will be around evens, let's say, £1m either side. Most businesses after takeover run at a loss in the first year of a takeover... the company I am working with now are forecasting/targeting a £5m loss in year one of their 5 year plan... it's normal. Having said that, because of our cup runs and better than anticipated crowds, I think we are running pretty much close to self-sufficiant, and if you take away the summer transfers like Rickie etc... which you could argue form part of the initial purchase cost... I think we are definately running even/at a profit. Lastly, it is VERY clear to see with the add-ons all over the show and aggressive pricing policy, that the club are trying to maximise income again this season to ensure they are self-sufficiant. There you go Dulldays, a constructive post. We will wait for the accounts to come out now I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 Yes but we also have a decent championship expenditure aswell.... And with the quality of our playing staff, managerial staff and coaching staff that is plain for all to see too ! I am convinced that we have been bankrolled to a large degree - Otherwise how can our gates and third tier ( not championship) division TV income pay for all this quality we have acquired in the past 12 months - Unless of course we are doing a Poopey and not paying the taxman !!! Yes, I never didn't say we never had a Championship expenditure, what I was trying to point out is that infact, we are probably living within our means. Our gates are top half Championship, our ticket prices are top half Championship, TV income last season that we lost in comparison to clubs in the CCC was more than offset by the JPT and FA Cup runs, our sponsorship from last season was also already negotiated with Flybe at a fixed rate so sponsorship revenue was not affected significantly. In every way apart from league position, we are a decent level Championship team, it is no wonder we have Championship level players, that's what our revenue dictated we could afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 I will answer this nice and simple for you Dulldays. Championship wages. The thing you fail to grasp is last season we had a top 8 Championship revenue as well. We might be in League 1 by name, but our revenue is a decent Championship one. To counter that, isnt there some rule for FL clubs to have to keep wages to so much of there revenue or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 6 July, 2010 Share Posted 6 July, 2010 To counter that, isnt there some rule for FL clubs to have to keep wages to so much of there revenue or something? There is a 60% wages-to-turnover cap in League Two (although as Notts County proved, there are ways around it), but the League One chairmen voted against it a while back, so it doesn't apply in this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 27 July, 2010 I hate to say I told you so, but I did and I was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 about what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 27 July, 2010 The feud with the Echo, the stories of club staff not being allowed to talk to him, the way he had a dig at MLT and Lawrie, the Pardew speculation, and now the season ticket prices/lack of an installment plan/booking tax on tickets. Take away Markus's money and I see very little difference between Cortese and Lowe. Post #1. Add Illingsworthgate to Cortese's list and the picture is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Post #1. Add Illingsworthgate to Cortese's list and the picture is complete. Hahahahaha yep...got through loads of managers so far....and staff Appointed pathetic Dutch coaches x4. Got rid of a good up and coming manager without the courtesy of telling him he had to find out via his agent who read it online. Alienated at least 10k supporters...of course our ST sales are down aren't they? Has Cortese phoned anyones employer yet complaining about his use of the internet during the firms time like the guy from Soton General? I see exactly what you mean.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 can't say losing sleep over them two falling out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Hahahahaha yep...got through loads of managers so far....and staff Appointed pathetic Dutch coaches x4. Got rid of a good up and coming manager without the courtesy of telling him he had to find out via his agent who read it online. Alienated at least 10k supporters...of course our ST sales are down aren't they? Has Cortese phoned anyones employer yet complaining about his use of the internet during the firms time like the guy from Soton General? I see exactly what you mean.... Let's see how long into next season Pardew is in the job. I think he'll be gone by Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Let's see how long into next season Pardew is in the job. I think he'll be gone by Christmas. Think or hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Think or hope? Think. I base this thought on the impression I got last season that Cortese wanted rid of Pardew then (remember the public criticism, subsequent response from AP that will have made a man like Cortese seethe, and the long long delay in Cortese issueing a statement backing the manager). I believe Cortese kept AP on last season because he calculated that sacking him would create a lot of fan unrest, so he is biding his time before wields the axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 There is a long way to go before NC descends to the depths Lowe sank. However, he's made a very good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersubpuckett Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 take away nc and you don't have the jolly fat bloke with all the cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 NC has made some mistakes but ultimatly they are just personality ones. Nobody is perfect. But in terms of football he has done a great job. I pay my cash to watch football. I don't go there in the hope of seeing drama. We live in the 24hr news age where something has to be happening constantly, if it isn't we will just make some up! I am just a football fan, can only judge him on how the football side of things is going. Just as with Lowe. We won a cup in the guy's first year. Don't think we won feck all under Lowe right? Keep winning = happy. Could not care less about politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 take away nc and you don't have the jolly fat bloke with all the cash There lies the problem. Liebherr won't walk away on his investment just because one of his employees walks. It's an investment, not a toy. But that attitude from fans is one of the main reasons the club feel like they can take the p!ss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 did we say that when Lowe went we just wanted to judge and talk about the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 did we say that when Lowe went we just wanted to judge and talk about the team Well there was 10 years history to mull over wasn't there...good, bad and ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 NC has made some mistakes but ultimatly they are just personality ones. Nobody is perfect. But in terms of football he has done a great job. I pay my cash to watch football. I don't go there in the hope of seeing drama. We live in the 24hr news age where something has to be happening constantly, if it isn't we will just make some up! I am just a football fan, can only judge him on how the football side of things is going. Just as with Lowe. We won a cup in the guy's first year. Don't think we won feck all under Lowe right? Keep winning = happy. Could not care less about politics. To be fair, football wise so far we have done OK, if he had done a "great" job then we would be in the Championship - remember he spent more than any other team EVER in this league and didn't even reach the play-offs. The test will be this season. Off the field Cortese makes Lowe look like a genius IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Off the field Cortese makes Lowe look like a genius IMO. what a ridiculous thing to say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 what a ridiculous thing to say.... Why? Lowe managed to get a programme printed for every game. Lowe managed to communicate properly with fans. Lowe never resorted to banning the local paper. Lowe managed to set up a installment plan for fans to use. The fact that we are even discussing the chairman at a time when we should just riding the crest of a wave speaks volumes for what a **** Cortese is. Remember Cortese's job is way way easier than the one Lowe had - he didn't have a billionaire's cash to throw about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Why? Lowe managed to get a programme printed for every game. Lowe managed to communicate properly with fans. Lowe never resorted to banning the local paper. Lowe managed to set up a installment plan for fans to use. The fact that we are even discussing the chairman at a time when we should just riding the crest of a wave speaks volumes for what a **** Cortese is. Remember Cortese's job is way way easier than the one Lowe had - he didn't have a billionaire's cash to throw about. would you rather lowe was here right now..? and why..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Why? Lowe managed to get a programme printed for every game. Woweee f**king sh*t Lowe managed to communicate properly with fans. Of course he did, especially blokes who wrote him letters to present at AGMs Lowe never resorted to banning the local paper. No, he just sued them. And national tabloids Lowe managed to set up a installment plan for fans to use. And never bought any decent players due to a lackof revenue Remember Cortese's job is way way easier than the one Lowe had - he didn't have a billionaire's cash to throw about. Rubbish, Lowe was all about operating profit whilst maintaining status quo - Cortese has to get us PROMOTED My thoughts above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 would you rather lowe was here right now..? and why..? Of course not. I'm just commenting on how things appear off the field, which isn't that important. It would be interesting to see how Lowe would fare with a billionaire's bank account to dip into though. We would definitely be able to read decent features in our local paper about Saints, read a matchday programme and pay for our ST's in installments if he was here though. We would also have a fan's forum, more ST holders and be able to voice our opinion without fear being banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 My thoughts above Your thoughts mean nothing because you don't go to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Your thoughts mean nothing because you don't go to games. Most of the blind Cortese lovers don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Of course not. I'm just commenting on how things appear off the field, which isn't that important. It would be interesting to see how Lowe would fare with a billionaire's bank account to dip into though. We would definitely be able to read decent features in our local paper about Saints, read a matchday programme and pay for our ST's in installments if he was here though. We would also have a fan's forum, more ST holders and be able to voice our opinion without fear being banned. lowe had the prem millions...did well then fecked it all up the wall....look where it lead us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Off the field Cortese makes Lowe look like a genius IMO. Amazingly you're right. Lowe was a PR dream compared to Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 take away nc and you don't have the jolly fat bloke with all the cash Anyway, for dune's benefit, here's the current score: Cortese/Liebherr 2,500,000,000 Lowe 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Of course not. I'm just commenting on how things appear off the field, which isn't that important. It would be interesting to see how Lowe would fare with a billionaire's bank account to dip into though. We would definitely be able to read decent features in our local paper about Saints, read a matchday programme and pay for our ST's in installments if he was here though. We would also have a fan's forum, more ST holders and be able to voice our opinion without fear being banned. Remind me again, how many billionaire investors did Lowe bring in for Saints? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 There lies the problem. Liebherr won't walk away on his investment just because one of his employees walks. It's an investment, not a toy. But that attitude from fans is one of the main reasons the club feel like they can take the p!ss. You could be right. On the other hand, you could be completely, utterly and totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Your thoughts mean nothing because you don't go to games. In your opinion. Which is demonstrably f**ked and discredited if you think Cortese is as bad Lowe anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Frankly, sadly, Mr Cortese seems to have some of the arrogance, lack of insight, massive ego, etc of Mr Lowe his predecessor. Don't forget that one arrogant ***** of a banker got the push. Just a thought..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Frankly, sadly, Mr Cortese seems to have some of the arrogance, lack of insight, massive ego, etc of Mr Lowe his predecessor. Don't forget that one arrogant ***** of a banker got the push. Just a thought..... Before you bandy around such abuse, has it been confirmed that NC blocked NIs season ticket ? Nope, thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Most of the blind Cortese lovers don't. Not true - unlike the last bunch who aired their dirty washing in the public, wanted to be loved and let their egos interfere with footballing matters, NC is the total opposite. Yes he's made some questionable decisions (some, not all) but these are largely off-the-pitch matters. Under Cortese, the team is allowed to get on on business without distractions and as a result looks more professional than its has been for ages. For somebody who goes to matches, the club's new found sense of focus and discipline (something we last had under Strachan but which was always fragile) is a breath of fresh air. Can certainly feel the difference at away games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Just another guy with a bit of class that the working class mongs don't get as far as I can see it. Nice one knuckle draggers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsacar saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 NC brought the investment with him,end of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 NC brought the investment with him,end of argument. Apparently not for some. They would miss the whining too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Before you bandy around such abuse, has it been confirmed that NC blocked NIs season ticket ? Nope, thought not. Fair point - but what if he has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Share Posted 27 July, 2010 Fair point - but what if he has? what if he has not..what if he knows nothing what so ever about this and his "in tray" is full dealing with staff recruitments and player purchases..???? what if he really cannot be bothered to respond to season ticket issues right now..hence why we have a whole bunch of ticket staff..???? what then..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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