Cortese V Lowe

[Colinjb]

It's not as simple as Lowe v Cortese. It's Lowe v Cortese/Leibherr.

 

As a result there is simply no comparison.

[dune]

It's not as simple as Lowe v Cortese. It's Lowe v Cortese/Leibherr.

 

As a result there is simply no comparison.

 

There clearly are comparisons. Both Lowe and Cortese fell out with the Echo. Lowe and Lawrie didn't get along, Cortese has a dig at Lawrie AND MLT.

[SaintRobbie]

It's not as simple as Lowe v Cortese. It's Lowe v Cortese/Leibherr.

 

As a result there is simply no comparison.

 

Good point. What would we be saying if the comparison was Lowe or Leibherr?

 

I think we know the answer. Onwards and upwards!

[70's Mike]

For what reasons?

 

( I do too think he was a c*nt, but not because of the way he managed SFC's finances )

 

Not sure if you can split managing finances and other decisions, all decisions eventually have a financial impact

[John Smith]

I do find it funny (in a weird/sickening way), that those who beat the drum for that incompotent leader of the Dutch duo and total football, are the same one's not 'getting behind the team'. I was called all sorts of names and had obscenities thrown at me for not renewing my season ticket when the dark lord returned. BUT, that was my choice, I didn;t bang a drum about it, I just stated that it was my choice not to go. I didn;t try and 'convert' any of those that supported Lowe, or, try to convince them that I was right, just that I had that choice.

 

So, I say to those of you that are banging this drum against NC and ML, where's your loyalty now? Where's the 'get behind the team no matter what' brigade going with this one? Why have they (particularly SOG) continuously brought up that piece of vomit again in relation to our fine owners now?

 

Why? Because they are attention seeking fools.

 

If you are not, do what i did when Lowe was in charge, DON'T GO! Don;t bleat on about it, and don't compare the most hideous man to ever 'lead' this club with anything other than vermin.

 

Stay away, continue to support and follow the scores as I did, but don't jump on our bandwagon as we get promoted, don't return just because the good times arrive, stay away in principal, as many of us did, when 'he' was in charge. That's what it takes to show how principled you are, and if you're not 'THAT' bothered, shut the f**k up.

[Colinjb]

There clearly are comparisons. Both Lowe and Cortese fell out with the Echo. Lowe and Lawrie didn't get along, Cortese has a dig at Lawrie AND MLT.

 

Lowe had total control via the elect of the shareholders, and thus full control of the money himself, he spoke for the majority of them and they allowed him total say. Cortese is here at the discretion of Markus. Without Cortese, Markus simply wouldn't be here anyway, maybe that solidifies his position, who knows, but he answers to a boss for his actions, he is working for the company on the request of his employer. He is also under pressure to deliver, and he does not control the money.

 

As far as I am concerned the comparison is not valid.

 

Even taking the worst case scenario in mind the is no competition.

 

Eccentric without money vs Tyrant with his employers money.

 

Tyrant please!

 

The points you raise Dune are minutae. Utterly irrelevant to how we perform on the pitch.

Edited 6 June, 2010 by Colinjb

[Dark Munster]

I totally agree that it is not a popularity competion. What I find hard to fathom is that when Lowe made "unpopular" decisions it was witch hunt time, but when someone else does it, it is okay?

 

As I said before, if Cortese delivers the goods, fair enough. But even when Lowe was delivering the goods (ie continued life in the Prem) he was constanstly slagged off.

 

Double standards.

 

Lowe didn't save the club from liquidation by bringing in a billionaire owner.

 

Hope you can fathom the difference now.

[Dark Munster]

Let's clear one thing up... the only thing Lowe can be guilty of is running too tight a ship, maybe not having the ambition and not taking a punt and borrowing money, incompetent at running 'the business' he was most definately not.

 

It's amusing that you lot advocate Cortese raising charges left, right and centre to try and maximise income, yet Lowe ran SFC as a self-sufficiant business and he was wrong for doing so?

 

We didn't have a god given right to stay in the Premiership, we were always going to get relegated at some point. And it was Wilde and Crouch's gamble spending money to get us in the play-offs which backfired and started the slide into administration.

 

Disclaimer: I would like to also state that for various reasons, I wanted shot of Lowe too and absolutely hated the snooty nosed c*nt.

As well as getting rid of a very good young manager (out of spite) and replacing him with 2 clowns, and waiting a few days after the points penalty cutoff date to go into administration (out of spite).

[Dark Munster]

Yes, exactly, he may well be doing this. There's nothing wrong with it, it's how all ltd company football clubs work, with the exception of maybe Chelsea.

 

The theory that Liebherr is giving us the money and is not calling back the money he has lent to buy the club and possibly purchase some players is wrong though, in my opinion... they are loan arrangements and he expects his money back.

 

Of course we have the luxury of being able to default and not get charged, and pay minimal interest ( alot of chairmen that loan clubs money, also add interest... the yanks at Liverpool are an example of this )

ML owns Saints. So you're saying he's lending money to himself, and expects to pay himself back.

 

Or else.

[StuRomseySaint]

ML owns Saints. So you're saying he's lending money to himself, and expects to pay himself back.

 

Or else.

 

Yes, in effect, that's exactly how it works. As it does for other football clubs owned privately by one individual.

 

He lends 'the business' money and expects it back within a certain timeframe as part of the business plan, obviously the advantage is that it's flexible, and interest free in most cases.

Edited 6 June, 2010 by StuRomseySaint

[NickG]

Yes, in effect, that's exactly how it works. As it does for other football clubs owned privately by one individual.

 

He lends 'the business' money and expects it back within a certain timeframe as part of the business plan, obviously the advantage is that it's flexible, and interest free in most cases.

 

exactly how it works - in your made up world!

 

You have no idea and ignore the only information we have on how the club is run.

[miserableoldgit]

There clearly are comparisons. Both Lowe and Cortese fell out with the Echo. Lowe and Lawrie didn't get along, Cortese has a dig at Lawrie AND MLT.

I really don`t know if you are serious or a WUM, both on this or on other threads, but there is a distinct whiff of desperation about your posts now. It really has gone past the stage of being funny. Everybody has a right to question decisions made by NC but surely it has to be done in a constructive manner? All that I have seen from you are hysterical, sensationalist over-the-top bleatings. If you are not happy with what he has decided, contact him, try and engage in dialogue and see what his response is. Being a "cyber-warrior" may give you a hard-on but it is extremely tiresome for the rest of us.

[dune]

I really don`t know if you are serious or a WUM, both on this or on other threads, but there is a distinct whiff of desperation about your posts now. It really has gone past the stage of being funny. Everybody has a right to question decisions made by NC but surely it has to be done in a constructive manner? All that I have seen from you are hysterical, sensationalist over-the-top bleatings. If you are not happy with what he has decided, contact him, try and engage in dialogue and see what his response is. Being a "cyber-warrior" may give you a hard-on but it is extremely tiresome for the rest of us.

 

I'm being serious. Don't read my posts in future if you cannot cope with a differing viewpoint.

[Tamesaint]

I'm being serious. Don't read my posts in future if you cannot cope with a differing viewpoint.

 

Lets just hope that you go away when the World Cup starts and you can moan about something else.

 

I do feel sorry for you if you are serious.

[dune]

Lets just hope that you go away when the World Cup starts and you can moan about something else.

 

I'm not going to let the issue of the ticket tax drop that easily.

[Ponty]

Dune, seriously, banging on about it here won't make a blind bit of difference other than to p*ss some people off. Get directly in touch with the club if you feel it's a real issue.

[Tamesaint]

I'm not going to let the issue of the ticket tax drop that easily.

 

Oh yippeee!!

 

Were you a Tolpuddle martyr in a previous life????

[Ponty]

Of course, digging into Dune constantly will only make him more resolute about banging on about it.

[dune]

Dune, seriously, banging on about it here won't make a blind bit of difference other than to p*ss some people off. Get directly in touch with the club if you feel it's a real issue.

 

I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of.

[Colinjb]

I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of.

 

Have you ever been to a concert? Been to a major event?

 

The same booking fees apply there. It has become a fact of life for many though. I salute you for staying below the radar enough to avoid them so far.

[NickG]

I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of.

 

 

balanced debate!

[dune]

Have you ever been to a concert? Been to a major event?

 

The same booking fees apply there. It has become a fact of life for many though. I salute you for staying below the radar enough to avoid them so far.

 

Booking fee's are wrong for any event. They are just an add on to generate more money and the £3 Saints are demanding for online/phone bookings is more than the vast majority of others clubs ask. It may well be becoming a fact of life, but we've heard and read much about how Mr Liebherr believes in business ethics and this charge is unethical - a contradiction of what I believed he stood for. I do not believe MR Liebherr had any input in this decision though.

[StuRomseySaint]

balanced debate!

 

That's a bit rich coming from you, chump.

[Colinjb]

Booking fee's are wrong for any event. They are just an add on to generate more money and the £3 Saints are demanding for online/phone bookings is more than the vast majority of others clubs ask. It may well be becoming a fact of life, but we've heard and read much about how Mr Liebherr believes in business ethics and this charge is unethical - a contradiction of what I believed he stood for. I do not believe MR Liebherr had any input in this decision though.

 

I don't disagree. you are right, but this is a larger can of worms then just arguing against Cortese. It's a trend, that while leaving a dodgy taste will provide the club with more funds.

 

This is an ethic used by many other organisations. So may not directly contradict the idea of 'business ethics.'

 

You are trying to launch a crusade beyond this club, into the wider capitalist world. Either go for it or shut the hell up, your whinning is getting annoying, we understand your dislike for it, ok. (I understand this has been campaigned against before and upheld..... you really will need some luck.)

[hypochondriac]

I'm getting a bit bored of Dune now. I hope he has written to the club about it as I have because that will do a lot more good than writing the same thing on here.

[NickG]

That's a bit rich coming from you, chump.

 

I backed up my debate with you with quotes, your debating ability peaked with Cortesse is a pr1ck and must be lying!

[cellone]

Minor point, if you own some thing of value (an asset) and spend money to improve it, isn't that called an investment not a loan?

[NickG]

From other fans forum:

 

Comparison of season ticket prices for high/low prices

 

Charlton 290 425

Swindon 299

Huddersfield 360 499

Saints 328 393

Colchester 393 501

Brentford 335 440

Wallsall 280 360

Bristol Rovers 315 488

MK Dons 325 495

Brighton 373 484

[NickG]

wrong thread sorry.

[Fowllyd]

I cannot belive what this guy is typing. Talk about a u turn.

 

On which subject, didn't you state not so long ago that as far as you were concerned Markus Liebherr is god and Nicola Cortese Jesus Christ, and that both of them were therefore above any criticism? I also seem to recall comments from you about Pardew having got too big for his boots and deserving a (presumed) slap from Cortese to put him back in his place.

 

So what's happened to bring about this particular U-turn then?

[StuRomseySaint]

I backed up my debate with you with quotes, your debating ability peaked with Cortesse is a pr1ck and must be lying!

 

You backed up your debate saying " you are talking rubbish because Cortese says we are not borrowing money, therefore we are not " - seriously, you have your tongue so far up his arse it's unreal. Are you his P.A?

[StuRomseySaint]

From other fans forum:

 

Comparison of season ticket prices for high/low prices

 

Charlton 290 425

Swindon 299

Huddersfield 360 499

Saints 328 393

Colchester 393 501

Brentford 335 440

Wallsall 280 360

Bristol Rovers 315 488

MK Dons 325 495

Brighton 373 484

 

Can I suggest Nick that you do the research yourself rather than posting it as gospel, you come across as a very naive person and someone who will believe anything as long as it favours SFC

[NickG]

is that wrong then?

 

you still saying you know more about the club's finances than Cortesse?

 

you still ignoring what he says and calling him a liar and a pr!ck?

 

You are bitter and jealous.

[alpine_saint]

Same old crap about dragging our feet on the transfer market and all the best players for this level being taken by both Lowe and Cortese, I note..

[StuRomseySaint]

is that wrong then?

 

you still saying you know more about the club's finances than Cortesse?

 

you still ignoring what he says and calling him a liar and a pr!ck?

 

You are bitter and jealous.

 

Yes, that is wrong, our season tickets are on a par with Brentford ( with a much more afluent area to target ) and Colchester ( who are just a rip-off ), the only team with noticably more expensive season tickets is Brighton... who again, have a much higher average income and a limited capacity, so prices reflect this.

 

So you have just posted complete b*llocks. Funnily enough I never start an argument/debate without the FACTS at hand... which are as following.

 

Cheapest Adult Season Tickets ( posting the most expensive is pointless.

 

Swindon £199

MK Dons £255

Bristol Rovers £260

Walsall £280

Charlton £290

Huds £305

Southampton £328

Brentford £335

Colchester £357

Brighton £373

 

If you want to post figures up I suggest you go and find out the facts for yourself, otherwise you just make yourself look like Cortese's little right hand @rse wiper.

[NickG]

good prices for us.

 

you made up the fact about Liebherr loan by the way.

[StuRomseySaint]

good prices for us.

 

you made up the fact about Liebherr loan by the way.

 

No, that is how football clubs work... do some research, I have posted links in other threads to qualify this ( I didn't just copy random sh!t from another forum ) .

 

As I said... owners 'loaning' the business money is how it works for Ltd owned companies. It protects their interests. Infact it happens in all walks of business, not just football.

 

I haven't said anywhere that there is anything wrong with this, so I am not sure what your problem is. What I do know is that your love for Cortese is sickening... ewwwwww

[dune]

On which subject, didn't you state not so long ago that as far as you were concerned Markus Liebherr is god and Nicola Cortese Jesus Christ, and that both of them were therefore above any criticism? I also seem to recall comments from you about Pardew having got too big for his boots and deserving a (presumed) slap from Cortese to put him back in his place.

 

So what's happened to bring about this particular U-turn then?

 

Dulldays was talking about Lowe being bad for Saints since 2003, yet during that time he was all in favour of Lowe. What did it for me with Cortese is his smug digs at Lawrie McMenemy and Matt Le Tissier - that showed how much respect he has for SFC. And the unethical ticket tax has confirmed to me that Cortese see's us as nothing but customers to be exploited.

[miserableoldgit]

I'm being serious. Don't read my posts in future if you cannot cope with a differing viewpoint.

 

I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of.

 

Hmmm......

[The9]

Just because I like doing things like this...

 

There seems to be some similarity between Cortese and Cauterise ? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauterization

[Frank's cousin]

Cant resist ;-)

 

I will say what I did when accused of defending Lowe all that time ago... FORGET THE PERSONALITIES and look at the approaches taken and judge them on their merits.

 

Lowe made alot of feck ups and his 'legendary' interference with footballing matters have tainted nearly everything he has done... but fundementally his approach was based on...

 

1. Do not get into debt

2. Invest wisely in infrastructure - ground for more fans/customers and better facilities - will encourage more to go to games and improve revenues for reinvestment

3. Invest in quality training facilities to giove our squad every possible advantage as we cant afford the worlds best, lets seek to improve what we have

4. Invest in an academy as its the best way of improving the squad without the financial headaches taht come with big signings

5. do not pay stupid wages and let managers go mad on contract negotiations

6. live within our means.

 

Now I support the above, not Lowe, or NC but the approach.

 

Who gives a flying feck if they dont get on with legends of the past.? ONly those stuck in it...

 

The past is just that, great days and all that, but guarrantees nothing and we are talking in one case about an expert from a different era - whose opinions are very vocal yet not really intune with today's game and has shown himself to believe the media first and comment, before finding out facts...

 

I do not need my CEO to be likeable, smiley,...just effective, and anyway we have Markus for the passion and 'intouch with fans' buit that so amny seem to need...

[NickG]

No, that is how football clubs work... do some research, I have posted links in other threads to qualify this ( I didn't just copy random sh!t from another forum ) .

 

As I said... owners 'loaning' the business money is how it works for Ltd owned companies. It protects their interests. Infact it happens in all walks of business, not just football.

 

I haven't said anywhere that there is anything wrong with this, so I am not sure what your problem is. What I do know is that your love for Cortese is sickening... ewwwwww

 

prices I quoted are all accurate - have been on all OSs.

[NickG]

No, that is howmost/other football clubs work... do some research, I have posted links in other threads to qualify this ( I didn't just copy random sh!t from another forum ) .

 

As I said... owners 'loaning' the business money is how it works for Ltd owned companies. It protects their interests. Infact it happens in all walks of business, not just football.

 

I haven't said anywhere that there is anything wrong with this, so I am not sure what your problem is. What I do know is that your love for Cortese is sickening... ewwwwww

 

You really are being childish. Because I happen to believe what Cortesse said on the radio, in the total absence of slightest bit of information to the contrary, your informed arguement is "you only say that because you love him"

 

FFS grow up and get over yourself!

[StuRomseySaint]

prices I quoted are all accurate - have been on all OSs.

 

The prices from other clubs season tickets are all accurate?

 

Are you sure Nick?

 

Willing to put some money on it? Because I personally have been on all of them OS's to get the figures.

 

Willing to put your money where your mouth is?

[NickG]

The prices from other clubs season tickets are all accurate?

 

Are you sure Nick?

 

Willing to put some money on it? Because I personally have been on all of them OS's to get the figures.

 

Willing to put your money where your mouth is?

 

yes. If you go to bbc sports, select league 1, and click on those teams there is a link to each site - just looked again.

 

Some have offered installments (maybe all can't remember) and some have offered early bird type discounts but those are all correct prices.

[StuRomseySaint]

yes. If you go to bbc sports, select league 1, and click on those teams there is a link to each site - just looked again.

 

Some have offered installments (maybe all can't remember) and some have offered early bird type discounts but those are all correct prices.

 

So you are stating them figures also include early bird discounts?

 

What's your wager?

[NickG]

no they don't they are current prices.

 

there I have shown you where to find info using google, I am still trying to find where you got your info about Liebherr loaning the club money just like the skates. could you please help me?

[StuRomseySaint]

no they don't they are current prices.

 

there I have shown you where to find info using google, I am still trying to find where you got your info about Liebherr loaning the club money just like the skates. could you please help me?

 

Oh ok... well mine are true figure including early bird and renewal discounts.

 

I take it you don't want the bet then? You can't come on here and claim people season ticket prices completely ignoring the early discounts of the respective clubs which show a completely different story!

 

I have told you how it works with pretty much every club... it's your decision what you want to believe.

 

Are you sure you don't work for the club.

[NickG]

why bet if you are agreeing with me.

[StuRomseySaint]

why bet if you are agreeing with me.

 

The fact you posted season ticket prices up which are completely doctored to suit your argument proves this, and proves that you cannot be taken seriously.

 

Who's figures are accurate when comparing season ticket prices using the most economic method?

 

I will take the bet mine are and wager my Saintsweb membership, if you lose you have to lose your membership on here.

 

Deal?