Colinjb Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 It's not as simple as Lowe v Cortese. It's Lowe v Cortese/Leibherr. As a result there is simply no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 June, 2010 It's not as simple as Lowe v Cortese. It's Lowe v Cortese/Leibherr. As a result there is simply no comparison. There clearly are comparisons. Both Lowe and Cortese fell out with the Echo. Lowe and Lawrie didn't get along, Cortese has a dig at Lawrie AND MLT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 It's not as simple as Lowe v Cortese. It's Lowe v Cortese/Leibherr. As a result there is simply no comparison. Good point. What would we be saying if the comparison was Lowe or Leibherr? I think we know the answer. Onwards and upwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 For what reasons? ( I do too think he was a c*nt, but not because of the way he managed SFC's finances ) Not sure if you can split managing finances and other decisions, all decisions eventually have a financial impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I do find it funny (in a weird/sickening way), that those who beat the drum for that incompotent leader of the Dutch duo and total football, are the same one's not 'getting behind the team'. I was called all sorts of names and had obscenities thrown at me for not renewing my season ticket when the dark lord returned. BUT, that was my choice, I didn;t bang a drum about it, I just stated that it was my choice not to go. I didn;t try and 'convert' any of those that supported Lowe, or, try to convince them that I was right, just that I had that choice. So, I say to those of you that are banging this drum against NC and ML, where's your loyalty now? Where's the 'get behind the team no matter what' brigade going with this one? Why have they (particularly SOG) continuously brought up that piece of vomit again in relation to our fine owners now? Why? Because they are attention seeking fools. If you are not, do what i did when Lowe was in charge, DON'T GO! Don;t bleat on about it, and don't compare the most hideous man to ever 'lead' this club with anything other than vermin. Stay away, continue to support and follow the scores as I did, but don't jump on our bandwagon as we get promoted, don't return just because the good times arrive, stay away in principal, as many of us did, when 'he' was in charge. That's what it takes to show how principled you are, and if you're not 'THAT' bothered, shut the f**k up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 (edited) There clearly are comparisons. Both Lowe and Cortese fell out with the Echo. Lowe and Lawrie didn't get along, Cortese has a dig at Lawrie AND MLT. Lowe had total control via the elect of the shareholders, and thus full control of the money himself, he spoke for the majority of them and they allowed him total say. Cortese is here at the discretion of Markus. Without Cortese, Markus simply wouldn't be here anyway, maybe that solidifies his position, who knows, but he answers to a boss for his actions, he is working for the company on the request of his employer. He is also under pressure to deliver, and he does not control the money. As far as I am concerned the comparison is not valid. Even taking the worst case scenario in mind the is no competition. Eccentric without money vs Tyrant with his employers money. Tyrant please! The points you raise Dune are minutae. Utterly irrelevant to how we perform on the pitch. Edited 6 June, 2010 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I totally agree that it is not a popularity competion. What I find hard to fathom is that when Lowe made "unpopular" decisions it was witch hunt time, but when someone else does it, it is okay? As I said before, if Cortese delivers the goods, fair enough. But even when Lowe was delivering the goods (ie continued life in the Prem) he was constanstly slagged off. Double standards. Lowe didn't save the club from liquidation by bringing in a billionaire owner. Hope you can fathom the difference now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Let's clear one thing up... the only thing Lowe can be guilty of is running too tight a ship, maybe not having the ambition and not taking a punt and borrowing money, incompetent at running 'the business' he was most definately not. It's amusing that you lot advocate Cortese raising charges left, right and centre to try and maximise income, yet Lowe ran SFC as a self-sufficiant business and he was wrong for doing so? We didn't have a god given right to stay in the Premiership, we were always going to get relegated at some point. And it was Wilde and Crouch's gamble spending money to get us in the play-offs which backfired and started the slide into administration. Disclaimer: I would like to also state that for various reasons, I wanted shot of Lowe too and absolutely hated the snooty nosed c*nt. As well as getting rid of a very good young manager (out of spite) and replacing him with 2 clowns, and waiting a few days after the points penalty cutoff date to go into administration (out of spite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Yes, exactly, he may well be doing this. There's nothing wrong with it, it's how all ltd company football clubs work, with the exception of maybe Chelsea. The theory that Liebherr is giving us the money and is not calling back the money he has lent to buy the club and possibly purchase some players is wrong though, in my opinion... they are loan arrangements and he expects his money back. Of course we have the luxury of being able to default and not get charged, and pay minimal interest ( alot of chairmen that loan clubs money, also add interest... the yanks at Liverpool are an example of this ) ML owns Saints. So you're saying he's lending money to himself, and expects to pay himself back. Or else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 (edited) ML owns Saints. So you're saying he's lending money to himself, and expects to pay himself back. Or else. Yes, in effect, that's exactly how it works. As it does for other football clubs owned privately by one individual. He lends 'the business' money and expects it back within a certain timeframe as part of the business plan, obviously the advantage is that it's flexible, and interest free in most cases. Edited 6 June, 2010 by StuRomseySaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Yes, in effect, that's exactly how it works. As it does for other football clubs owned privately by one individual. He lends 'the business' money and expects it back within a certain timeframe as part of the business plan, obviously the advantage is that it's flexible, and interest free in most cases. exactly how it works - in your made up world! You have no idea and ignore the only information we have on how the club is run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 There clearly are comparisons. Both Lowe and Cortese fell out with the Echo. Lowe and Lawrie didn't get along, Cortese has a dig at Lawrie AND MLT. I really don`t know if you are serious or a WUM, both on this or on other threads, but there is a distinct whiff of desperation about your posts now. It really has gone past the stage of being funny. Everybody has a right to question decisions made by NC but surely it has to be done in a constructive manner? All that I have seen from you are hysterical, sensationalist over-the-top bleatings. If you are not happy with what he has decided, contact him, try and engage in dialogue and see what his response is. Being a "cyber-warrior" may give you a hard-on but it is extremely tiresome for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I really don`t know if you are serious or a WUM, both on this or on other threads, but there is a distinct whiff of desperation about your posts now. It really has gone past the stage of being funny. Everybody has a right to question decisions made by NC but surely it has to be done in a constructive manner? All that I have seen from you are hysterical, sensationalist over-the-top bleatings. If you are not happy with what he has decided, contact him, try and engage in dialogue and see what his response is. Being a "cyber-warrior" may give you a hard-on but it is extremely tiresome for the rest of us. I'm being serious. Don't read my posts in future if you cannot cope with a differing viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I'm being serious. Don't read my posts in future if you cannot cope with a differing viewpoint. Lets just hope that you go away when the World Cup starts and you can moan about something else. I do feel sorry for you if you are serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Lets just hope that you go away when the World Cup starts and you can moan about something else. I'm not going to let the issue of the ticket tax drop that easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Dune, seriously, banging on about it here won't make a blind bit of difference other than to p*ss some people off. Get directly in touch with the club if you feel it's a real issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I'm not going to let the issue of the ticket tax drop that easily. Oh yippeee!! Were you a Tolpuddle martyr in a previous life???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Of course, digging into Dune constantly will only make him more resolute about banging on about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Dune, seriously, banging on about it here won't make a blind bit of difference other than to p*ss some people off. Get directly in touch with the club if you feel it's a real issue. I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of. Have you ever been to a concert? Been to a major event? The same booking fees apply there. It has become a fact of life for many though. I salute you for staying below the radar enough to avoid them so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of. balanced debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 6 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Have you ever been to a concert? Been to a major event? The same booking fees apply there. It has become a fact of life for many though. I salute you for staying below the radar enough to avoid them so far. Booking fee's are wrong for any event. They are just an add on to generate more money and the £3 Saints are demanding for online/phone bookings is more than the vast majority of others clubs ask. It may well be becoming a fact of life, but we've heard and read much about how Mr Liebherr believes in business ethics and this charge is unethical - a contradiction of what I believed he stood for. I do not believe MR Liebherr had any input in this decision though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 balanced debate! That's a bit rich coming from you, chump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Booking fee's are wrong for any event. They are just an add on to generate more money and the £3 Saints are demanding for online/phone bookings is more than the vast majority of others clubs ask. It may well be becoming a fact of life, but we've heard and read much about how Mr Liebherr believes in business ethics and this charge is unethical - a contradiction of what I believed he stood for. I do not believe MR Liebherr had any input in this decision though. I don't disagree. you are right, but this is a larger can of worms then just arguing against Cortese. It's a trend, that while leaving a dodgy taste will provide the club with more funds. This is an ethic used by many other organisations. So may not directly contradict the idea of 'business ethics.' You are trying to launch a crusade beyond this club, into the wider capitalist world. Either go for it or shut the hell up, your whinning is getting annoying, we understand your dislike for it, ok. (I understand this has been campaigned against before and upheld..... you really will need some luck.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I'm getting a bit bored of Dune now. I hope he has written to the club about it as I have because that will do a lot more good than writing the same thing on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 That's a bit rich coming from you, chump. I backed up my debate with you with quotes, your debating ability peaked with Cortesse is a pr1ck and must be lying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 Minor point, if you own some thing of value (an asset) and spend money to improve it, isn't that called an investment not a loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 From other fans forum: Comparison of season ticket prices for high/low prices Charlton 290 425 Swindon 299 Huddersfield 360 499 Saints 328 393 Colchester 393 501 Brentford 335 440 Wallsall 280 360 Bristol Rovers 315 488 MK Dons 325 495 Brighton 373 484 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 wrong thread sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 6 June, 2010 Share Posted 6 June, 2010 I cannot belive what this guy is typing. Talk about a u turn. On which subject, didn't you state not so long ago that as far as you were concerned Markus Liebherr is god and Nicola Cortese Jesus Christ, and that both of them were therefore above any criticism? I also seem to recall comments from you about Pardew having got too big for his boots and deserving a (presumed) slap from Cortese to put him back in his place. So what's happened to bring about this particular U-turn then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 I backed up my debate with you with quotes, your debating ability peaked with Cortesse is a pr1ck and must be lying! You backed up your debate saying " you are talking rubbish because Cortese says we are not borrowing money, therefore we are not " - seriously, you have your tongue so far up his arse it's unreal. Are you his P.A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 From other fans forum: Comparison of season ticket prices for high/low prices Charlton 290 425 Swindon 299 Huddersfield 360 499 Saints 328 393 Colchester 393 501 Brentford 335 440 Wallsall 280 360 Bristol Rovers 315 488 MK Dons 325 495 Brighton 373 484 Can I suggest Nick that you do the research yourself rather than posting it as gospel, you come across as a very naive person and someone who will believe anything as long as it favours SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 is that wrong then? you still saying you know more about the club's finances than Cortesse? you still ignoring what he says and calling him a liar and a pr!ck? You are bitter and jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 Same old crap about dragging our feet on the transfer market and all the best players for this level being taken by both Lowe and Cortese, I note.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 is that wrong then? you still saying you know more about the club's finances than Cortesse? you still ignoring what he says and calling him a liar and a pr!ck? You are bitter and jealous. Yes, that is wrong, our season tickets are on a par with Brentford ( with a much more afluent area to target ) and Colchester ( who are just a rip-off ), the only team with noticably more expensive season tickets is Brighton... who again, have a much higher average income and a limited capacity, so prices reflect this. So you have just posted complete b*llocks. Funnily enough I never start an argument/debate without the FACTS at hand... which are as following. Cheapest Adult Season Tickets ( posting the most expensive is pointless. Swindon £199 MK Dons £255 Bristol Rovers £260 Walsall £280 Charlton £290 Huds £305 Southampton £328 Brentford £335 Colchester £357 Brighton £373 If you want to post figures up I suggest you go and find out the facts for yourself, otherwise you just make yourself look like Cortese's little right hand @rse wiper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 good prices for us. you made up the fact about Liebherr loan by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 good prices for us. you made up the fact about Liebherr loan by the way. No, that is how football clubs work... do some research, I have posted links in other threads to qualify this ( I didn't just copy random sh!t from another forum ) . As I said... owners 'loaning' the business money is how it works for Ltd owned companies. It protects their interests. Infact it happens in all walks of business, not just football. I haven't said anywhere that there is anything wrong with this, so I am not sure what your problem is. What I do know is that your love for Cortese is sickening... ewwwwww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 7 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 7 June, 2010 On which subject, didn't you state not so long ago that as far as you were concerned Markus Liebherr is god and Nicola Cortese Jesus Christ, and that both of them were therefore above any criticism? I also seem to recall comments from you about Pardew having got too big for his boots and deserving a (presumed) slap from Cortese to put him back in his place. So what's happened to bring about this particular U-turn then? Dulldays was talking about Lowe being bad for Saints since 2003, yet during that time he was all in favour of Lowe. What did it for me with Cortese is his smug digs at Lawrie McMenemy and Matt Le Tissier - that showed how much respect he has for SFC. And the unethical ticket tax has confirmed to me that Cortese see's us as nothing but customers to be exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 I'm being serious. Don't read my posts in future if you cannot cope with a differing viewpoint. I couldn't care less if my concerns annoy anyone because what i'm saying is right. Those with blaze' attitudes towards the ticket tax have no principles on the subject. The ticket tax is a rip off and is unethical end of. Hmmm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 Just because I like doing things like this... There seems to be some similarity between Cortese and Cauterise ? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauterization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 Cant resist ;-) I will say what I did when accused of defending Lowe all that time ago... FORGET THE PERSONALITIES and look at the approaches taken and judge them on their merits. Lowe made alot of feck ups and his 'legendary' interference with footballing matters have tainted nearly everything he has done... but fundementally his approach was based on... 1. Do not get into debt 2. Invest wisely in infrastructure - ground for more fans/customers and better facilities - will encourage more to go to games and improve revenues for reinvestment 3. Invest in quality training facilities to giove our squad every possible advantage as we cant afford the worlds best, lets seek to improve what we have 4. Invest in an academy as its the best way of improving the squad without the financial headaches taht come with big signings 5. do not pay stupid wages and let managers go mad on contract negotiations 6. live within our means. Now I support the above, not Lowe, or NC but the approach. Who gives a flying feck if they dont get on with legends of the past.? ONly those stuck in it... The past is just that, great days and all that, but guarrantees nothing and we are talking in one case about an expert from a different era - whose opinions are very vocal yet not really intune with today's game and has shown himself to believe the media first and comment, before finding out facts... I do not need my CEO to be likeable, smiley,...just effective, and anyway we have Markus for the passion and 'intouch with fans' buit that so amny seem to need... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 No, that is how football clubs work... do some research, I have posted links in other threads to qualify this ( I didn't just copy random sh!t from another forum ) . As I said... owners 'loaning' the business money is how it works for Ltd owned companies. It protects their interests. Infact it happens in all walks of business, not just football. I haven't said anywhere that there is anything wrong with this, so I am not sure what your problem is. What I do know is that your love for Cortese is sickening... ewwwwww prices I quoted are all accurate - have been on all OSs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 No, that is howmost/other football clubs work... do some research, I have posted links in other threads to qualify this ( I didn't just copy random sh!t from another forum ) . As I said... owners 'loaning' the business money is how it works for Ltd owned companies. It protects their interests. Infact it happens in all walks of business, not just football. I haven't said anywhere that there is anything wrong with this, so I am not sure what your problem is. What I do know is that your love for Cortese is sickening... ewwwwww You really are being childish. Because I happen to believe what Cortesse said on the radio, in the total absence of slightest bit of information to the contrary, your informed arguement is "you only say that because you love him" FFS grow up and get over yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 prices I quoted are all accurate - have been on all OSs. The prices from other clubs season tickets are all accurate? Are you sure Nick? Willing to put some money on it? Because I personally have been on all of them OS's to get the figures. Willing to put your money where your mouth is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 The prices from other clubs season tickets are all accurate? Are you sure Nick? Willing to put some money on it? Because I personally have been on all of them OS's to get the figures. Willing to put your money where your mouth is? yes. If you go to bbc sports, select league 1, and click on those teams there is a link to each site - just looked again. Some have offered installments (maybe all can't remember) and some have offered early bird type discounts but those are all correct prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 yes. If you go to bbc sports, select league 1, and click on those teams there is a link to each site - just looked again. Some have offered installments (maybe all can't remember) and some have offered early bird type discounts but those are all correct prices. So you are stating them figures also include early bird discounts? What's your wager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 no they don't they are current prices. there I have shown you where to find info using google, I am still trying to find where you got your info about Liebherr loaning the club money just like the skates. could you please help me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 no they don't they are current prices. there I have shown you where to find info using google, I am still trying to find where you got your info about Liebherr loaning the club money just like the skates. could you please help me? Oh ok... well mine are true figure including early bird and renewal discounts. I take it you don't want the bet then? You can't come on here and claim people season ticket prices completely ignoring the early discounts of the respective clubs which show a completely different story! I have told you how it works with pretty much every club... it's your decision what you want to believe. Are you sure you don't work for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 why bet if you are agreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 7 June, 2010 Share Posted 7 June, 2010 why bet if you are agreeing with me. The fact you posted season ticket prices up which are completely doctored to suit your argument proves this, and proves that you cannot be taken seriously. Who's figures are accurate when comparing season ticket prices using the most economic method? I will take the bet mine are and wager my Saintsweb membership, if you lose you have to lose your membership on here. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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