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Cortese V Lowe

dune

By dune,
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Sheff Saint

Sheff Saint

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The thing missing for me is some open and honest comms. We are not customers, we are supporters of a football club.

 

If the club said, look, we've only got 1,000 people paying via the instalment plan, it's costing us 10k to run it - it makes sense to scrap it. Ideally they'd have given a seasons warning but at least acknowledge it.

 

Likewise, if they could show how the £3 ticket tax was going back into the club, and some of the rationale behind it rather than other options, i'm sure supporters, by and large would accept it.

 

I'm not bothered it took to June to know about the 10/11 ST prices, but why not let us know we aren't going to hear anything til then. I'm sure some would still moan, but it would shut most up.

 

The frustrating thing for me that this regime seems to share with the past is the one way comms. For me it builds unnecessary resentment and smacks of treating us like customers, not members. It's not the worst crime in the world but it is very avoidable.

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Thedelldays

Thedelldays

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You have to be the worst poster in years. Either debate points properly or ignore.

yeah, cheers..

 

will remember some of these comments when I dare question a sub/result and people lecture me about being hysterical

 

you have to pay a booking fee (been paying that for years)

 

wowzers....nothing that does not happen in nearly every other entertainment venue/exhibition

 

we really, REALLY have proper moaning fans..ALWAYS have to moan about anything other than football...seems to be engrained into us

 

dont like it, dont pay..no one if forcing us..?

cant afford it, pay per game...not hard

 

desperately want a season ticket, get a 0% credit card...I did when I went on my last holiday at short notice and paid it back over the following few months then closed the card...not hard to be responsible

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John Smith

John Smith

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The feud with the Echo, the stories of club staff not being allowed to talk to him, the way he had a dig at MLT and Lawrie, the Pardew speculation, and now the season ticket prices/lack of an installment plan/booking tax on tickets.

 

Take away Markus's money and I see very little difference between Cortese and Lowe.:(

 

Apart from you being one sandwich short of a picnic, let's say I agree, let's say we all agree with you, what then? Do you want to organise a march on SMS and chanting NC out?

 

In fact, why not, go for it. The Saturday after this, call up the echo and warn them that your staging a protest to rid this club of this awful man that has done nothing than drag this club down through 2 divisions, not invested and employed more managers than tea ladies. Hell, what's all this with sticking with the same manager for a whole season????? In Lowes day, we'd be on manager number 3 by now.

 

A week Saturday, march on SMS and get him removed.

 

And because I only get 3 posts, I'll cover one of your responses now -

 

"Because that's what many fans did when Lowe was in charge"

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saintjay77

saintjay77

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The thing missing for me is some open and honest comms. We are not customers, we are supporters of a football club.

 

If the club said, look, we've only got 1,000 people paying via the instalment plan, it's costing us 10k to run it - it makes sense to scrap it. Ideally they'd have given a seasons warning but at least acknowledge it.

 

Likewise, if they could show how the £3 ticket tax was going back into the club, and some of the rationale behind it rather than other options, i'm sure supporters, by and large would accept it.

 

I'm not bothered it took to June to know about the 10/11 ST prices, but why not let us know we aren't going to hear anything til then. I'm sure some would still moan, but it would shut most up.

 

The frustrating thing for me that this regime seems to share with the past is the one way comms. For me it builds unnecessary resentment and smacks of treating us like customers, not members. It's not the worst crime in the world but it is very avoidable.

 

The booking fee question was answered when most of us bought tickets for the JPT final. Its all about transparency. Instead of paying £15 for the ticket and not knowing what its for you pay £12 for the ticket and £3 for the booking fee. They get charged the booking fee to sell the ticket to us so they are just passing that cost on in a more transparent way. No hidden costs or extra's and all that.

 

Could argue that its too much or for 1 group booking there should only be 1 Booking fee but people instead argue about naff all for the sake of it.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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I'm sure he won't be withdrawing any cash from the business for as long as he owns it, but there's absolutely no way he won't be selling for a profit in the future if he can. That's why he invested, it was an absolute bargain with near-guaranteed profit in the medium-to-long-term if the club is run well and gets promoted.

 

ML is a multi-billionaire.

 

He's sixty something.

 

He's more likely to make more money from finding loose change in the back of his sofa than he would with Saints.

 

He may or may not make a profit when he eventually sells, but I doubt he if gives a shit one way or the other. I reckon achieving success on the field is his ambition with us.

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NickG

NickG

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I'm sure he won't be withdrawing any cash from the business for as long as he owns it, but there's absolutely no way he won't be selling for a profit in the future if he can. That's why he invested, it was an absolute bargain with near-guaranteed profit in the medium-to-long-term if the club is run well and gets promoted.

 

hence the huge queue he joined when he bought us?

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Foxstone

Foxstone

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No, that would be the not if but when we sack Pardew thread.

 

I don't see the problem in comparing CEOs, centre forwards, kitmen, anyone at the club.

 

Except that our current CEO is light years better than the trail of misfits that preceded him - So comparisons are futile ;)

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dune

dune

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Except that our current CEO is light years better than the trail of misfits that preceded him - So comparisons are futile ;)

 

Will Cortese have been sucessful if the scrapping of the installment scheme and the ticket tax result in fewer fans supporting the club at games both at home and away?

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Foxstone

Foxstone

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Will Cortese have been sucessful if the scrapping of the installment scheme and the ticket tax result in fewer fans supporting the club at games both at home and away?

 

Not going to happen !

 

With the investment in the infrastructure and team ( started last season and will no doubt continue into the coming one), together with the stated requirement of promotion ( and we do not have -10 points to contend with this time round), we will be right up there in the promotion places.

 

Success brings support at any club and ours is no different.

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dune

dune

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Not going to happen !

 

With the investment in the infrastructure and team ( started last season and will no doubt continue into the coming one), together with the stated requirement of promotion ( and we do not have -10 points to contend with this time round), we will be right up there in the promotion places.

 

Success brings support at any club and ours is no different.

 

I agree, but what happens if the season isn't the fly away success on the pitch that you (and Cortese) have taken for granted?

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Foxstone

Foxstone

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I agree, but what happens if the season isn't the fly away success on the pitch that you (and Cortese) have taken for granted?

 

Then Pardew will be fired and another manager will be brought in who can deliver success that the very heavy financial investment ( authorised my Cortese) deserves and warrants.

 

Cortese provides the strategy and authorises the funds to achieve it.

 

"the fly away success on the pitch" is down to Pardew to deliver.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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No, that would be the not if but when we sack Pardew thread.

 

I don't see the problem in comparing CEOs, centre forwards, kitmen, anyone at the club.

 

 

The hysteric on that thread would be you, because no one was calling for Pardew to be sacked in that thread, but it didn't stop you spending the entire season bleating on about it.

 

And this time last year it was you hysterically sneering and mocking anyone that predicted success for Pardew and the team, calling us immature and unrealistic.

 

You forecast failure for Pardew last season and you were proved wrong, wrong, wrong. Pardew delivered sweet, sweet instant success and your hysterics last year were proved to be the garbage I said it was at the time.

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Matty's Caddy

Matty's Caddy

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The feud with the Echo, the stories of club staff not being allowed to talk to him, the way he had a dig at MLT and Lawrie, the Pardew speculation, and now the season ticket prices/lack of an installment plan/booking tax on tickets.

 

Take away Markus's money and I see very little difference between Cortese and Lowe.:(

 

Dune, give it a rest you skate ****. That's the only reason you bring up that red nosed **** lowe, because you are a skate, now **** off!!

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dune

dune

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Dune' date=' give it a rest you skate ****. That's the only reason you bring up that red nosed **** lowe, because you are a skate, now **** off!![/quote']

 

lol, i'm guessing you're about 14 and sit at the back of block 42.:)

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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The hysteric on that thread would be you, because no one was calling for Pardew to be sacked in that thread, but it didn't stop you spending the entire season bleating on about it.

 

And this time last year it was you hysterically sneering and mocking anyone that predicted success for Pardew and the team, calling us immature and unrealistic.

 

You forecast failure for Pardew last season and you were proved wrong, wrong, wrong. Pardew delivered sweet, sweet instant success and your hysterics last year were proved to be the garbage I said it was at the time.

 

You really are a very strange person.

 

Go back and read the thread again, there is a clue in the title by the way. Not if but when. Get it yet?

 

Please feel free to find any post by me calling anyone immature and unrealistic who was predicting success. I supported Pardew all season long and still do but you seem to be quite happy to ignore the facts.

 

I said that promotion was going to be difficlut. Did we get promoted by the way? Perhaps I was proved right, right right?

 

Do you live in some parallel "Lost" universe. If you you going to have a pop at me at least get your facts right first.

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St Landrew

St Landrew

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I don't know what people are going on about with such ferocity. I begin to question some people's priorities. Lowe was initially good for Saints, then very bad indeed. Cortese has been very, very good for Saints. After all, he brought Markus with him, and if being in the top ten of richest clubs in English football isn't a massive plus, then I don't know what is. If a little matter of installments for season tickets, and some particular £3 booking tax, is the biggest blot on his Saints tenure, then frankly, I look forward to a very nice future for SFC with Nicola at the helm.

 

Let's face it, ultimately, either you can afford a season ticket or you can't, installments or not. :smt102

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dune

dune

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I don't know what people are going on about with such ferocity. I begin to question some people's priorities. Lowe was initially good for Saints, then very bad indeed. Cortese has been very, very good for Saints. After all, he brought Markus with him, and if being in the top ten of richest clubs in English football isn't a massive plus, then I don't know what is. If a little matter of installments for season tickets, and some particular £3 booking tax, is the biggest blot on his Saints tenure, then frankly, I look forward to a very nice future for SFC with Nicola at the helm.

 

Let's face it, ultimately, either you can afford a season ticket or you can't, installments or not. :smt102

 

Do you think £3 is a reasonable amount to charge for a postal delivery given that most clubs with a ticket tax charge £1?

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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I don't know what people are going on about with such ferocity. I begin to question some people's priorities. Lowe was initially good for Saints, then very bad indeed. Cortese has been very, very good for Saints. After all, he brought Markus with him, and if being in the top ten of richest clubs in English football isn't a massive plus, then I don't know what is. If a little matter of installments for season tickets, and some particular £3 booking tax, is the biggest blot on his Saints tenure, then frankly, I look forward to a very nice future for SFC with Nicola at the helm.

 

Let's face it, ultimately, either you can afford a season ticket or you can't, installments or not. :smt102

 

Cortese is been an absolute PR disaster... MUCH worse than Lowe EVER was. He shows a real naivity in his statements, luckily for him he is still riding on a crest of the feelgood factor wave and people on the whole, are seeming to ignore him.

 

Now don't get me wrong, Cortese has grand plans for Southampton to get us back into the Premiership, which is impressive, but his complete disrespect for the fans lets him down badly.

 

As does the pointless penny pinching.

 

You can't compare Lowe and Cortese, i don't really like either of them.

 

One of them ran a PLC and the other ran a private company for a billionaire owner. They are worlds apart.

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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Put it like this; Had the present lot taken over in 1997 and not Lowe and his gang, we wouldn't be in League 1 now.We'd be up with the Villa's, Everton's and Fulham's chasing a Europa League spot.

 

That doesn't make Cortese better than Lowe... that just means we would have had the money to ensure we didn't get relegated and go into admin.

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NickG

NickG

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That doesn't make Cortese better than Lowe... that just means we would have had the money to ensure we didn't get relegated and go into admin.

 

Lowe v Cortesse

 

Far too early to compare for similar periods.

 

My measurement would be success of team and my enjoyment watching.

 

Cortesse has not failed in that as yet, if we continue to improve year on year, and I enjoy it as much as last season he will be a success and easy winner.

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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Lowe v Cortesse

 

Far too early to compare for similar periods.

 

My measurement would be success of team and my enjoyment watching.

 

Cortesse has not failed in that as yet, if we continue to improve year on year, and I enjoy it as much as last season he will be a success and easy winner.

 

You can't compare them, as I said.

 

Lowe had to rely on money generated to run the business and had a duty to the people in the City and shareholders to look after their shares.

 

Cortese has the luxury of having nobody to answer to apart from Marcus, and the massive luxury of being able to call on interest free loans at any point that he feels SFC needs another cash injection.

 

After all... let's not forget, Southampton is in debt... all the money put in has been loaned from Liebherr, he expects it back.

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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loan us the money

 

O.K

 

I am glad I read this before I bothered to reply to your other thread.

 

Of course he is loaning the club money, he expects every penny of it back, including the £11m or whatever it was to buy the club.

 

He is not in it for sh!ts and giggles, he is in it for the investment and to turn a profit. The same as any other privately owned football club. The only owner I know to have written of his money owed is Abramovich who wrote them off last year.

 

Why do you think every single one of P*mpeys zillion owners are owed money? They are 'loans' to the club.

 

Here you go... read this...

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/19/premier-league-finances-wages

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NickG

NickG

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totally different basic business principals.

 

Skates owner loaned money to the business.

 

Liebherr has bought a club, put money into the club with no loans against the club.

 

If he chooses to sell the club at some stage in the future of course he will expect to get some money back but there are no loans that can be called it.

 

Hope this helps, I can understand why you were so against them if you felt they were running the club as the skates.

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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totally different basic business principals.

 

Skates owner loaned money to the business.

 

Liebherr has bought a club, put money into the club with no loans against the club.

 

If he chooses to sell the club at some stage in the future of course he will expect to get some money back but there are no loans that can be called it.

 

Hope this helps, I can understand why you were so against them if you felt they were running the club as the skates.

 

Read the article, nearly all private owners loan the money and expect if back... I am not having a dig a Liebherr for it... it's just how it happens in football.

 

Liebherr will be taking his money back out of the profits. For the record I don't think they are running it like the skates... bad example, I was just explaining how all club owners don't "give" money to the club, they loan it, and expect it back... sometimes with interest.

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NickG

NickG

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Cortesse has said that there are no loans against the club, nor will there be, we are different that other clubs.

 

For example money for training ground redevelopment is all coming as personal donation from ML

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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Cortesse has said that there are no loans against the club, nor will there be, we are different that other clubs.

 

For example money for training ground redevelopment is all coming as personal donation from ML

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

I get it, " Cortese said so " :lol:

 

There's that blind love again...

 

SFC do not have loans with any other businesses, the only person that finances us is Marcus Liebherr... and he does not do it for free... it's how business works and it's how business in football works, because then, if something goes wrong and the club goes pop, they remain a creditor and get some of their investment back... which is what Chanrai did.

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NickG

NickG

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you lost any abilty to debate this rationally now.

 

Yes Cortesse maybe lying,

 

or you, with no knowledge of the running of the club and guessing maybe wrong.

 

ummmm - which is more likely!?

 

So you do think we are like skates!

 

Football is not a normal business, I don't know whether ML is expecting to make much out of it

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NickG

NickG

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if Liebherr is worth the reported £2.5 billion.

 

Lets say, for easy maths his spending plan is;

 

club from administration £15m

training ground / initial redevlopment stadium / academy etc £5m

playing investment

09/10 £3m

10/11 £5m

11/12 £7m

12/13 £10m

 

total spend £45m. A lot of money.

 

But 1.8% of his worth.

 

I don't know what the average worth of "normal" people is but, again for easy maths perhaps £500,000?

 

1.8% of that is £9,000.

 

Sure if you were going to invest £9k you would want a return. But a lot of people would blow that on motorbike, holiday, boat etc for pleasure.

 

I am hoping this is how he looks at it!

 

this is one I did ages ago, shows that your assumptions are based on normal wealth not the likes of ML or Abramovich etc

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NickG

NickG

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just seen the light. you are right, ML is running saints on skates model, Cortesse has been lying on live radio interviews, only those who love him will believe his lies, we are heavily in debt and Markus will call those debts in.

 

 

I tried!

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StuRomseySaint

StuRomseySaint

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you lost any abilty to debate this rationally now.

 

Yes Cortesse maybe lying,

 

or you, with no knowledge of the running of the club and guessing maybe wrong.

 

ummmm - which is more likely!?

 

So you do think we are like skates!

 

Football is not a normal business, I don't know whether ML is expecting to make much out of it

 

Once again I was using the P*rtsmouth example as how an owner can 'loan' the club money and then when it goes into administration, still be a creditor.

 

I think you are getting a little over-excited and expecting a bit too much from Liebherr. I thought half way through the season that maybe he is in it for a bit of fun... but it's most definately a business venture, the last couple of months have shown that.

 

If you did read the article link you will have seen that it's pretty much every owner, wealthy and super-wealthy, that LOAN their clubs money.

 

Anyway, it's a boring subject and all might become clear when the accounts come out.

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