Reply from David Luker re installment plan

[The Kraken]

But why should SFC take the risk that people will pay for 1/2 installments and then not bother / be able to pay for the remaining installments?

 

Seriously, what "risk" is there. The club cannot lose money from this; payments are all made within the first few months of the season. It's even been suggested that the club could have structured the payments from April to August such that the price is paid full before the season starts.

 

There is NO risk of the club losing money. They perhaps need to police it stricter if there are defaulters and they slip through the net. However, the club are still entitled to re-sell those defaulters tickets.

 

This "risk" issue doesn't exist, I'm afraid.

[Arcadian]

What some people on here seem to forget is that there are people, like me, who are exceedingly short of funds. Some blacklisted and some who can not get a credit card.

 

So telling me how simple the problem is to solve is not going to cheer me up. On top of me is an 11yo girl, a 6yo boy and a 4yo girl who would go occasionally in her brothers place. In an ideal world My whole family would go but the £30 transport costs for every home game makes matters far worse.

 

I am not crying or pleading for help just stating a plain and simple fact.

 

This is now the scenario I have pictured and fought against for a long time. I can see my kids watching other teams on the tv and becoming long distance utd or chelsea supporters as they will no longer be going to SMS.

 

That to me is not a pretty picture but more parents of large families will be feeling the same.

 

 

It is sad that you cannot take your family to every game. But what is the answer? Should the club subsidise every Saints fan that cannot afford a season ticket? The Club is not a charity and Liebherr is not there to pump his billions in. The whole plan has been to get Saints on a sound footing and then self sustainable. It is unfortunate that some of the fans will be effected by the decision to withdraw instalments but it is also a decision that has been taken based on the costs to date. It has already been pointed out that in the not too distant future, football clubs will have to be run on sound financial bases. Seems like our executives are planning for this already, which is not a bad thing.

[SO16_Saint]

I always believed this line of credit ran like this:

 

Customer: "I want to pay monhtly"

SFC:"Ok can do, Lloyds premium Credit will take your DD"

Customer: "Cool, thanks "

SFC: - Now they apply to Lloyds for the value of the season ticket.

Lloyds - Here you are SFC here is the full value of the season ticket, Thanks for introducing a customer to us.

SFC " No problem thanks for he dosh"

 

The customer now owes Lloyds the money and lloyds have given the whole sum to SFC upfront.

 

No different than buying a sofa or a car on finance. My debt for my sofa belonged to lloyds, not Harveys where i purchased it from.

 

Now it oculd be and I am sure that this has happened that people will have defaulted on their payments. This potentially leads to a loss to Lloyds who in turn dictate to SFC that because of this fact that their costs for setting up this arrangement then has to be sorted so we are passing the losses on to you in admin charges.

 

I can see the metality at this but I do know a few friends are now NOT going to buty season tickets because of this as they simply do not have that kind of desposable income. So the club have made a brave move here, but could it come at a cost?

 

this used to be the case until the past season or 2 whereby the club took debit card details and then manually processed the payments 1/6th each month for 6 months.

 

The payments werent on the same day each month, which meant (i assume) that in some cases there were insufficient funds in the account and it was rejected

[Matthew Le God]

What some people on here seem to forget is that there are people, like me, who are exceedingly short of funds. Some blacklisted and some who can not get a credit card.

 

Maybe this is for the good then. People in that position shouldn't be spending hundreds of pounds to add to their debt with luxuries like season tickets. I'm not saying they shouldn't goto the football(pick and choose a few games through the season), but cutting back on things like season tickets should be a priority when trying to sort out personal finance problems.

[SO16_Saint]

Seriously, what "risk" is there. The club cannot lose money from this; payments are all made within the first few months of the season. It's even been suggested that the club could have structured the payments from April to August such that the price is paid full before the season starts.

 

There is NO risk of the club losing money. They perhaps need to police it stricter if there are defaulters and they slip through the net. However, the club are still entitled to re-sell those defaulters tickets.

 

This "risk" issue doesn't exist, I'm afraid.

 

OK.

 

you give me £400. I wont sign a credit agreement or any legal doc.

 

I pay month 1, and scarper after the payment is made.

 

Still no risk?

[Arcadian]

Seriously, what "risk" is there. The club cannot lose money from this; payments are all made within the first few months of the season. It's even been suggested that the club could have structured the payments from April to August such that the price is paid full before the season starts.

 

There is NO risk of the club losing money. They perhaps need to police it stricter if there are defaulters and they slip through the net. However, the club are still entitled to re-sell those defaulters tickets.

 

This "risk" issue doesn't exist, I'm afraid.

 

But defaulters are indeed a risk! It also costs the Club money to service and administer the monthly payments - the bank makes charges on the direct debits, people need to be paid to administer them monthly and the cost to then police defaulters adds on more! Both the risk and the costs involved do exist and are why the instalment plan has been removed. It hasn't been done to spite you or anyone else.

[stevegrant]

OK.

 

you give me £400. I wont sign a credit agreement or any legal doc.

 

I pay month 1, and scarper after the payment is made.

 

Still no risk?

But the club are not giving you money, so that example is flawed.

 

All you would be running off with is a book with a few vouchers in, which would be rendered worthless if the club instructed turnstile operators to refuse entry to anybody holding specific tickets.

 

They managed to prevent any of the Daily Echo's sports reporters from gaining access to St Mary's for three months, and that wasn't affecting revenues at all...

[The Kraken]

But the club are not giving you money, so that example is flawed.

 

All you would be running off with is a book with a few vouchers in, which would be rendered worthless if the club instructed turnstile operators to refuse entry to anybody holding specific tickets.

 

They managed to prevent any of the Daily Echo's sports reporters from gaining access to St Mary's for three months, and that wasn't affecting revenues at all...

 

Cheers Steve. But I think Bridgey is having a "fingers in ears" moment.

 

Besides, this whole "defaulters" argument is only a rumour. The official line from the club is that it is "increased administration costs of running such a scheme".

[stevegrant]

Oh, and of course if they'd announced the prices earlier, fans could have paid their instalments before the season started... no full payment = no season ticket sent out + club have part of your money anyway.

[stmusicdude]

Im not disagreeing with you here....

 

But why should SFC take the risk that people will pay for 1/2 installments and then not bother / be able to pay for the remaining installments?

 

I was hoping for the Installment plan, but as it's not there - and i haven't got a spare £400 - I wont be getting a ST.

 

Man up and take it on the chin. If you cant afford it, you cant have it.

 

Not nice, but a fact of life.

 

Yes - they could have given us more time to save the £400 (or whatever it is) - but they didnt, and we couldn't.

 

It's done now, and no amount of b!tching is going to change it - but we will all know for next season and be ready with the reddies in hand...

 

people are sooooooo naive if it was that then why remove the half season tickets? these are paid for upfront.

It would of been a great way for those who cant get the 400 up front to find a solution ..

[The Kraken]

But defaulters are indeed a risk! It also costs the Club money to service and administer the monthly payments - the bank makes charges on the direct debits, people need to be paid to administer them monthly and the cost to then police defaulters adds on more! Both the risk and the costs involved do exist and are why the instalment plan has been removed. It hasn't been done to spite you or anyone else.

 

I prefectly accept that there are some administration costs associated to such a scheme. However, to claim that there is a "risk" from losing money to the defaulters is just not there; see Steve's response above for the answer to that.

 

Seriously though, the whole "cost" issue doesn't stack up when you consider Cortese has claimed the club are seeking the maximise the customer service levels across the board for the customers. Yet instantly a scheme with minor associated costs but major customer benefit has been removed with no consultation.

 

Costs haven't been an issue for the new training ground; for the new catering team; for binning thousands of programmes; or for our action in the transfer market. It's therefore very strange that we "can't afford" a payment scheme the likes of which Exeter and various other teams in our league can and do operate.

[The Kraken]

Just received a further response from David Luker, as to why the club gave no notice for the cancellation of the payment scheme.

 

 

Dear Dav

 

Thank you for your response.

 

We are naturally sorry if you feel that we haven’t given enough notice. I do understand the point you are making

 

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us

 

Kind regards

 

David

[aintforever]

Mr Luker is not very good at explaining things is he.

[MarkSFC]

Just received this from David Luker regarding my earlier suggestion

 

 

 

Dear Mark

 

Thank you for your suggestion. I will pass this on

 

Regards

 

David

 

David Luker

 

Head of Supporter Services

 

Southampton Football Club

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark

Sent: 02 June 2010 11:16

To: David Luker

Subject: Season Tickets

 

Mr Luker

 

In light of the decision by the club not to offer fans the option of paying for season tickets in instalments, may I offer you a compromise?

 

In order to appease what seems to being a growing disdain over this ( I do not actually count myself in that group though) I feel this plan may work.

 

What if fans can "reserve their seat" by paying an upfront fee of say £20.

This then entitle the fan to purchase matchday tickets at £20 BUT only in bundles of 3 matches, and subject to the same £3 surcharge (per purchase not per ticket) if purchased online or via telephone. If each bundle of 3 matches is purchased in person then no fee is charged.

The other caveat to this scheme should be that if the fan has not purchased "their seat" 3 days before any game then the club reserves the right to sell it.

 

I hope you take this on board and consider how such a scheme will be great for PR (and also for sales!)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Kind regards

 

Mark

[The Kraken]

Mr Luker is not very good at explaining things is he.

 

I get the feeling the changes were made by those above him and he doesn't neccessarily agree with them...

[Badger]

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark

Sent: 02 June 2010 11:16

To: David Luker

Subject: Season Tickets

 

Mr Luker

 

In light of the decision by the club not to offer fans the option of paying for season tickets in instalments, may I offer you a compromise?

 

 

The other caveat to this scheme should be that if the fan has not purchased "their seat" 3 days before any game then the club reserves the right to sell it.

 

I hope you take this on board and consider how such a scheme will be great for PR (and also for sales!)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Kind regards

 

Mark

 

Generally that seems a reasonable proposition,almost an "extended membership scheme" although perhaps a difficult one to administer.

 

I'd suggest that giving 3 days before the match is a little too generous though

and that purchase is completed at the stage tickets go on general sale.

[SFC Forever]

Why am I *****ing when I say I feel that way. I have at no time in my post said a word against our club nor will I.

 

In my opinion, by taking away the possibility of my kids going to a match there is the distinct possibility of my kids, and kids similarly situated, leaning towards a team and players that they see week after week on tv.

 

The club must have had an idea of this extra cost before the decision was made. In which case they could have had two choices set before us. Cash up, front as they have, and an alternative pricing for the instalment plan for those less fortunate.

 

Surely that is not as hard to work out as you seem to suggest. If it is then maybe they need different people organising the payments.

[St.Patrik]

I think that this just a test to see how many that will pay all amount up front. If the sales is really bad then suddenly NC will change his mind and it will be possible to divide the payments as usual. Then suddenly he´s the good guy again. A win - win situation for him.

[RonManager]

I think that this just a test to see how many that will pay all amount up front. If the sales is really bad then suddenly NC will change his mind and it will be possible to divide the payments as usual. Then suddenly he´s the good guy again. A win - win situation for him.

 

Except it'll royally p*ss off those who subsequently find out that they could have paid by instalment after all!

[St.Patrik]

Not if he gives them like a free away ticket or something? These guys always win - no matter what : /

 

Except it'll royally p*ss off those who subsequently find out that they could have paid by instalment after all!

[Kaiser Soze]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

[Thedelldays]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

there we go

[SO16_Saint]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

case in point

[Um Bongo]

Hopefully they get banned then.

[The Kraken]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

Unsurprising; just a shame that instead of finding a more secure way to make sure this can't happen again the club has decided to scrap it altogether.

[trousers]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

And what happened when Southampton Football Club Limited reported this crime to the Hampshire Constabulary?

[trousers]

Ticket Office

 

Registered User

 

Last Activity: Today 03:18 PM

[The Kraken]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

Thinking about it, there's such an easy way to make sure this didn't happen again. It just would have required the club to have released prices last month (say May 1st).

 

Payment for season tickets can still be paid over 6 months; 3 payments must be received by the start of the season (May, June, July). Then a half-season book of tickets is sent out. Following the August, September and October payments the following half-season book is sent out. Therefore ALL games are paid for up front and there's no chance of those previous shenanigans.

 

Too easy.

Edited 2 June, 2010 by The Kraken

[Matthew Le God]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

Automatic turnstiles with season ticket swipecards(like at Newcastle) or paper tickets with bar codes(like at Wembley) would stop this as individual tickets could be de-registered from working if payment is not made.

[Kaiser Soze]

All they need to do is introduce swipe systems at the turnstilles - then they could cancel season tickets as they please. Heard this was going to happen a while back.

[aintforever]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

I'm sure this happens at other clubs yet they seem capable of offering a payment plan.

 

If the STs were released on time they would be more or less paid for by the time they were sent out anyway so a few chavs pulling a fast one wouldn't matter.

 

There is no glossing over it, the way this ST thing has been handled has been a complete disaster. They would have had my cash in the bank long ago if t hey had done a March Madness, now with a recent change in my job security and the fact that they want £400 quid up front just as I get back from holiday they can go jump.

 

Lowe managed to get me to part with my cash every year for a decade despite being a complete ****.

[The Kraken]

All they need to do is introduce swipe systems at the turnstilles - then they could cancel season tickets as they please. Heard this was going to happen a while back.

 

And balance the costs by needing less staff to man the turnstiles.

 

Failing that, barcode the tickets and have barcode readers at each turnstile. There's plenty of options, the club clearly just don't want to bother with it.

[stevegrant]

All they need to do is introduce swipe systems at the turnstilles - then they could cancel season tickets as they please. Heard this was going to happen a while back.

Pretty sure it was in the pipeline back when we were in the top flight, the season tickets back then were cards with barcodes on. Then we got relegated, so they couldn't justify the relatively large expenditure (would guess at somewhere in the region of £300-500k to implement). Then the cards started getting cloned and forged, so they withdrew them completely.

[dune]

Pretty sure it was in the pipeline back when we were in the top flight, the season tickets back then were cards with barcodes on. Then we got relegated, so they couldn't justify the relatively large expenditure (would guess at somewhere in the region of £300-500k to implement). Then the cards started getting cloned and forged, so they withdrew them completely.

 

It always amuses me how at stadiums with electronic turnstiles they still require a turnstile attendant to show people how it operates.

[RonManager]

It always amuses me how at stadiums with electronic turnstiles they still require a turnstile attendant to show people how it operates.

 

I've used them 3 times so far, at MK Dons, Reading and Wembley. On each occasion they failed and the attendant had to manually override it!

It's like these automatic cheque paying in machines in the bank. There's always an attendant because they are constantly screwing up (literally in the case of one batch of cheques I fed in last year)!!

 

Still, it's the future.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The timing of this is pretty poor customer service really, it should have been announced around April time to allow for people to try and adjust their spending.

 

I was playing 5 a side last night with a senior Manager of a large retail Company and we were talking about this. He said they used to throw "store cards" at everyone who came through the door, but the last couple of years the finance Companies are charging the store more and more to administer it. He said the cost was starting to eat into the margin of already heavily reduced items. Therefore the cards are not actively sold to customers, not advertised and only used for high ticket items, when the customer is clearly going to spend at a rival.

 

I suggest the same thing has proberly occured here. If the cost to the Club outweighs any advantages of getting money up front and they'll get more from people buying their tickets one at a time, then clearly they'll do that. I know people wikll say pass the cost onto the customer, but if the cost is more than the saving, then people will not take out the installment plan anyway. I can't see any other reason for the Club doing this, if the installment plan meant more money up front, guarenteed attandance every week then they would do it. They are not fools, and although the thing has been handled badly PR wise, there will be a sound business reason for it. I do feel sorry for the guys who have to find this large amount of money in these difficult times, money that they haven't budgetted for, but sometimes things do kick you in the balls.

[The Kraken]

The timing of this is pretty poor customer service really, it should have been announced around April time to allow for people to try and adjust their spending.

 

This is the key part.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, it was clearly a business decision and nothing else. However, the club have to understand that a football club is a little more than "just a business", its not as if we have the choice to use other local competitors. A little bit of communication and transparency would have gone very far with this decision.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

I've used them 3 times so far, at MK Dons, Reading and Wembley. On each occasion they failed and the attendant had to manually override it!

It's like these automatic cheque paying in machines in the bank. There's always an attendant because they are constantly screwing up (literally in the case of one batch of cheques I fed in last year)!!

 

Still, it's the future.

 

I think you're doing it wrong!

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

I agree with the rest of your post, it was clearly a business decision and nothing else. However, the club have to understand that a football club is a little more than "just a business", its not as if we have the choice to use other local competitors. A little bit of communication and transparency would have gone very far with this decision.

 

We're looking at it from a "Southampton till I die" point of view, a business man will look at it differently, that's the price we have to pay for ML's money. The key here is the silance around the decision, it's like they think we're too simple to understand the reasoning. If they laid out the reasoning behind it, and did it early, 75% of the complaints would go away. They've made the story bigger than it needed to be, and caused more bad feeling than they needed to.I haven't got a S/T so it doesn't affect me, and yet I'm still a bit puzzled by the handling of it.

[RonManager]

I think you're doing it wrong!

 

So you're saying that screwing the ticket up into a ball and ramming it full force into the slot is not the correct procedure?

[Redondo Saint]

This is the key part.

 

However, the club have to understand that a football club is a little more than "just a business", its not as if we have the choice to use other local competitors. A little bit of communication and transparency would have gone very far with this decision.

 

Totally agree.

 

Not everything can be paid for in installments. This was a perk not a right.

 

Some people seem to think you don't have to save, borrow, finance or go without for anything any more. ST's have always been a lot of money up front but you get to choose your seat and it's less than paying on a match day.

 

The announcement was poorly timed - that's all.

[Goalie66]

It is all a question of attitude by the Club. Clearly Cortese does not undestand how to Market the club and communicate with Customers.

 

It is his fiefdom and he will do things his way.

 

Most can understand price changes if they are explained and everybody is givven time to plan. We are not idiots.

 

I am afraid that Cortese has shown that he REALLY does not understand that maintaining the Family culture of the club is good for business. Good business people listen and communicate effectively and in a timely manner.

 

The surcharges on bookings are price increases and penalise those who go to away games as well as those who are not season ticket holders.

 

I do think we have heard the last of this and I suspect that Mr Cortese may have to eat some humble pie and admit a mistake. If he does then he will go up in my estimation. If not then there may be more listening to matches than attending

Edited 2 June, 2010 by Goalie66

[OldNick]

so to let fans pay by installment, we have to have barcode/swipe machines fitted at a cost of 300k (Grantys figure) it may be 100k who would pay? Oh the fans by higher ticket charges. Then the fans complain at the rip off prices. Surely it is not beyond most if not al to get a credit card.

[Redondo Saint]

so to let fans pay by installment, we have to have barcode/swipe machines fitted at a cost of 300k (Grantys figure) it may be 100k who would pay? Oh the fans by higher ticket charges. Then the fans complain at the rip off prices. Surely it is not beyond most if not al to get a credit card.

 

I just don't get this thread at all. However, we will see how many tickets are sold and this will determine how much of an issue it is. Personally I think this is only a small minority of fans.

[The Kraken]

so to let fans pay by installment, we have to have barcode/swipe machines fitted at a cost of 300k (Grantys figure) it may be 100k who would pay? Oh the fans by higher ticket charges. Then the fans complain at the rip off prices. Surely it is not beyond most if not al to get a credit card.

 

No, you don't NEED to have a barcode/swipe system at all. Just start the installments in April and run them through to August, the cost is completely paid off before the start of the season. Or as I previously suggested, start the installments in May, qualify for the first half season ticket before the start of the season, receive the second half after the next 3 month's payments.

 

No huge extra charge, and the club end up going through with what they said they would do in their customer charter.

 

Most people seem to have grasped that this issue isn't just about taking away an interest free payment scheme; it's much more about giving no notice whatsoever that the scheme was being ditched and offering no other alternative for some than to pay up front a large sum of money in a short space of time, or get a credit card which a signifiant proportion of people may justifiably not want to do.

[capitalsaint]

It is all a question of attitude by the Club. Clearly Cortese does not undestand how to Market the club and communicate with Customers.

 

It is his fiefdom and he will do things his way.

 

Most can understand price changes if they are explained and everybody is givven time to plan. We are not idiots.

 

I am afraid that Cortese has shown that he REALLY does not understand that maintaining the Family culture of the club is good for business. Good business people listen and communicate effectively and in a timely manner.

 

The surcharges on bookings are price increases and penalise those who go to away games as well as those who are not season ticket holders.

 

I do think we have heard the last of this and I suspect that Mr Cortese may have to eat some humble pie and admit a mistake. If he does then he will go up in my estimation. If not then there may be more listening to matches than attending

 

Not if we're top of the league there won't. Plenty of fans will come out of the woodwork.

 

When we've won the division, I hope all of you moaners have the balls to admit how fantastic Cortese will have been for the business.

[The9]

I know a load of people who took out the installment plan and then cancelled their Direct Debit (but kept the season ticket). Probably the reason why the plan has been pulled.

 

But that wasn't "the plan" until last season's post-Admin rush for STs - until last year's exceptional situation the club had happily ofered an externally run payment plan for at least the previous 7 years at St Mary's.

[The9]

Not if we're top of the league there won't. Plenty of fans will come out of the woodwork.

 

When we've won the division, I hope all of you moaners have the balls to admit how fantastic Cortese will have been for the business.

 

Interesting inability to distinguish between success on the pitch with success as a business there. I'm expecting Saints to win a lot of games, but it won't mean all that much to me if I've been price-planned or Cortese Taxed out of seeing it...

[NickG]

Interesting inability to distinguish between success on the pitch with success as a business there. I'm expecting Saints to win a lot of games, but it won't mean all that much to me if I've been price-planned or Cortese Taxed out of seeing it...

 

£14 per game is pretty cheap to watch saints win a league!

[stmusicdude]

Not if we're top of the league there won't. Plenty of fans will come out of the woodwork.

 

When we've won the division, I hope all of you moaners have the balls to admit how fantastic Cortese will have been for the business.

ML has been great .. but NC? just what move has he made that’s been so great?

ok to be fair it was him that attracted ML in but alienating & dividing the fan base is what made things difficult for Lowe ...

Some of the way this has been handled is poor & has implications for what will happen when we actually have success coz as many of you pointed out we haven’t yet.

 

Yes fans will come out the woodwork, The JPT taught them this & in a way it may of been our downfall in a way?

It's a shame though that those who moan about it for all are critised for it..

because these are big increases with taxed ticketing which if it works I can see eventually effecting all of you .. What an earth are they going to add on when we get promoted to championship?

 

this is a recession ... next time round recession over & maybe promoted .. and then an increase of 120? 150? 170? who knows.. if you have that sort of money to throw around & cant see how people buying ST for 4 or + people .. lucky you...