Saints V England

[Smirking_Saint]

WTF are you on about? its ridiculous to say that a third tier Enlgish football team could beat a top international team. My point about those listed being overrated is relative, as per the comment about "on he big stage"- when was the last time a third division footballer played for England on the big stage you goon. Those i listed are all described as world class players yet have never performed when it matters for England, or do you think they have, if so when? Or is that the reason why we have only progressed past the quarter finals of any competition in fifty years? LOL at the stupidity, well done now hand the keyboard over to someone else.

 

Lol, i never once said that Saints could beat england, and never would i have.

 

That said, our big players have played very well in many tournaments, Personally i don't agree that Lampard should be given an england shirt but to say they are not good enough is laughable.

 

Look at our performances in qualifying FFS

[Smirking_Saint]

Read it again pal, i said on the big stage. IE world cups, Euro championships, not a friendly against the likes of Jamaica. If your going to try to make a point, make sure its about the right thing.

 

Or alternatively, if i try and make a point next time i won't try and make it to a moron

[Smirking_Saint]

I see where you are coming from about Crouch (though the FIFA refs will blow against him whenever a defender backs into him because of his size he looks like he is holding) and also about Gerrard (I would drop the useless tw*t Lampard if Barry is fit), but your comment about Huddlestone is plain bizarre.

 

And I maintain the worst player on display yesterday was Ashley Cole.

 

I thought Huddlestone looked about the only player that could string a pass together in the first half, if you watched you would have noticed he got no cover from Lampard at all, in fact i don't think i even noticed him playing in the first half !!

 

We also looked much more dangerous in the second when Gerrard was able to run with the ball and find space, unfortunately Fat F**** always seems to get in his way and stand pretty much up front stopping Gerrard playing.

 

I thought the whole backline looked pretty dodgy in the first half, Ashley would have done a better job if he was not defending against both the Jap winger and fullback, the same as Johnson.

 

Unfortunately playing two wingers in Walcott and Lennon was never going to work with only a slow DM in a midfield pairing to try and hold it together. That is why we looked better and more dangerous when we played R/L midfielders that could defend as well.

[Turkish]

Lol, i never once said that Saints could beat england, and never would i have.

 

That said, our big players have played very well in many tournaments, Personally i don't agree that Lampard should be given an england shirt but to say they are not good enough is laughable.

 

Look at our performances in qualifying FFS

 

I never said you did say Saints could beat England, You called me a hypocrite for saying that Apline was mental for suggesting it and for me then saying that our supposedly "world class players" are over rated. As i have now said for the third time it is relative, i never said they weren't good enough, but that to be truely considered world class you have to do it when in matters, like Messi does, like Xavi & Inisesta do. Name me a time when an England player has been because i cant, apart from Rooney in 2004. When have our "world class player" in the current squad and you can include Beckham in this, as he would have been there but for injury, (i'll give you v Greece in 2001 (?) but that wasn't at the finals) turned in a top notch performance when it really mattered?

Edited 31 May, 2010 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Or alternatively, if i try and make a point next time i won't try and make it to a moron

 

Well i dont see what your point is, could Saints beat England, no- we agree, however I'm still waiting for this list of games when Englands world class players have been outstanding in world cup or euro championship finals.

[Smirking_Saint]

I never said you did say Saints could beat England, You called me a hypocrite for saying that Apline was mental for suggesting it and for me then saying that our supposedly "world class players" are over rated. As i have now said for the third time it is relative, i never said they weren't good enough, but that to be truely considered world class you have to do it when in matters, like Messi does, like Xavi & Inisesta do. Name me a time when an England player has been because i cant, apart from Rooney in 2004. When have our "world class player" in the current squad and you can include Beckham in this, as he would have been there but for injury, (i'll give you v Greece in 2001 (?) but that wasn't at the finals) turned in a top notch performance when it really mattered?

 

Well i dont see what your point is, could Saints beat England, no- we agree, however I'm still waiting for this list of games when Englands world class players have been outstanding in world cup or euro championship finals.

 

I am still yet to see Messi dominate a game in an argentinian shirt and so that sort of negates the point you are trying to make.

 

Our big players do perform and have done so on many occasions, tearing Croatia a new one twice is one time, we also looked good in 2002 before crashing out to Brazil, however i think that was more to do with crap tactics then the players.

[Turkish]

I am still yet to see Messi dominate a game in an argentinian shirt and so that sort of negates the point you are trying to make.

 

Our big players do perform and have done so on many occasions, tearing Croatia a new one twice is one time, we also looked good in 2002 before crashing out to Brazil, however i think that was more to do with crap tactics then the players.

 

Cant you read? I said in the tournements.

 

2002- we looked good against the Danes, 3-0 up in the first half, but really should we not expect to beat the likes of Denmark? We were poor against Sweden, okay against Argentina, poor against Nigeria. So we played well in one game out of five against a team we should expect to beat 9 times out of 10. Then got beaten by a team that we lead 1-0 and played a lot of the game with 10 men. Where where our big players then, when it mattered?

[Smirking_Saint]

Cant you read? I said in the tournements.

 

2002- we looked good against the Danes, 3-0 up in the first half, but really should we not expect to beat the likes of Denmark? We were poor against Sweden, okay against Argentina, poor against Nigeria. So we played well in one game out of five against a team we should expect to beat 9 times out of 10. Then got beaten by a team that we lead 1-0 and played a lot of the game with 10 men. Where where our big players then, when it mattered?

 

Completely negated by a denfensive minded buffoon !!

 

I was clamouring to take the game to a 10 men Brazil in that match but, the same as we did against France 2 years later he decided to sit back and see the game out, it also happened against Portugal.

 

With a manager that would have seen the need to attack in this situations we could have done better but Ericsson didn't have any aggressive tactics about him.

 

You need to wake up and realise that International football is not similar to its club football nephew, the lower international teams are at a higher level to the lower club teams and so what is expected to be a walkover will never be.

 

To say that our best players constantly underperform is rediculous.

[Turkish]

Completely negated by a denfensive minded buffoon !!

 

I was clamouring to take the game to a 10 men Brazil in that match but, the same as we did against France 2 years later he decided to sit back and see the game out, it also happened against Portugal.

 

With a manager that would have seen the need to attack in this situations we could have done better but Ericsson didn't have any aggressive tactics about him.

 

You need to wake up and realise that International football is not similar to its club football nephew, the lower international teams are at a higher level to the lower club teams and so what is expected to be a walkover will never be.

 

To say that our best players constantly underperform is rediculous.

 

So when have they performed? When was the last time you could say, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard etc had a great tournement and enhanced their reputations? Proved themselves to truely be world class at international level? I cant think of any that have done since the mid ninties when Owen did in 1998 (and he was a young up and coming not a top first team player) and Shearer in 1996. The only exception of Rooney in 2004 and again, lkike Owen you could argue that Rooney wasn't an established "world class player" back then but more of an Owen up and coming type.

 

Agree that these days few international games are a walkover but England consider themselves a top footballing nation and should expect to beat the likes of Denmark etc When was the last time we beat Sweden for example? We consider ourselves a better team than them. The fact is, with a couple of exceptions over the last 40 years or so England have always come up short against the nations we put ourselves on a par with, when it matters in tournements, it cant all be down to crap tactics from a ****e manager.

[alpine_saint]

So when have they performed? When was the last time you could say, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard etc had a great tournement and enhanced their reputations? Proved themselves to truely be world class at international level? I cant think of any that have done since the mid ninties when Owen did in 1998 (and he was a young up and coming not a top first team player) and Shearer in 1996. The only exception of Rooney in 2004 and again, lkike Owen you could argue that Rooney wasn't an established "world class player" back then but more of an Owen up and coming type.

 

Agree that these days few international games are a walkover but England consider themselves a top footballing nation and should expect to beat the likes of Denmark etc When was the last time we beat Sweden for example? We consider ourselves a better team than them. The fact is, with a couple of exceptions over the last 40 years or so England have always come up short against the nations we put ourselves on a par with, when it matters in tournements, it cant all be down to crap tactics from a ****e manager.

 

Add to Sweden the likes of Romania, Eire, Norway...

[aintforever]

England are rubbish, and barring one competition that was at home, always have been. Every World Cup we get the same mongs who think we will win it, but they are deluded if they think we have anything more than an outside chance. The problem is people get a distorted view of how good we are because of the riches and fame of the English game.

 

Portugal, Korea Republic, Holland, Turkey, Croatia, Bulgaria & Sweden have all reached the last 4 more recently than England.

[paulwantsapint]

My point is still Saints look more like an organised team than England do yes I know saints train together every day But dont the chelsea, spurs, liverpool, both mancs ect train daily but yet still look like Terry has never played with Lampard or ex mr Tweedy

 

Saints know Rickie is main man tell england Rooney is main man

[Turkish]

England are rubbish, and barring one competition that was at home, always have been. Every World Cup we get the same mongs who think we will win it, but they are deluded if they think we have anything more than an outside chance. The problem is people get a distorted view of how good we are because of the riches and fame of the English game.

 

Portugal, Korea Republic, Holland, Turkey, Croatia, Bulgaria & Sweden have all reached the last 4 more recently than England.

 

nail on head, that is the biggest problem, everyone, including the players think that due to the celebrity status and earnings even average players get in England. I think the difficencies of English players are highlighted in the fact that you can count on one hand the amount of English players that have been a success abroad in the last 30 years and that English players seem incapable of playing any other system than 4-4-2.

[AlfredKo]

Kelvin Davis VS David James

Jaidi VS Rio

Fonte VS Terry

Spiderman VS Lampard

Lallana VS Gerrard

Lambert VS Ronney

[benjii]

Anyone who really knows anything about football knows that the current Engalnd team is somewhere between 5th-15th in the world. Therefore they wll probably get to the Second Round or the Quarter Finals then lose.

 

I think we all know this don't we? Being knowledgeable Saints fans.

 

The only people who think otherwise are fairweather fans who believe all the rubbish in the media or the media (if they believe what they write; I think some of them are genuinely stupid and do, and some just play the game).

[dubai_phil]

Anyone who really knows anything about football knows that the current Engalnd team is somewhere between 5th-15th in the world. Therefore they wll probably get to the Second Round or the Quarter Finals then lose.

 

I think we all know this don't we? Being knowledgeable Saints fans.

 

The only people who think otherwise are fairweather fans who believe all the rubbish in the media or the media (if they believe what they write; I think some of them are genuinely stupid and do, and some just play the game).

 

 

Tend to agree, although under Capello we do seem to have added a resilience. I think we could actually grind out results and give ourselves a chance. BUT the real problem as I see it is the lack of "magic" we are a team of "solid footballers" or extra effort players. Where is the defense splitting pass and the skill to create something out of nothing in the blink of an eye. We may get the pass to say Walcott, but the clinical finish from that point on? Don't see it myself, which is where I think we'll come unstuck again.

 

Mind you other teams have ground out WC wins in the past.

 

We're England, it is our destiny to be "unlucky semi-final losers" or knocked out on Penalties in the Quarters so we can say IF ONLY for another 4 years

[Turkish]

Tend to agree, although under Capello we do seem to have added a resilience. I think we could actually grind out results and give ourselves a chance. BUT the real problem as I see it is the lack of "magic" we are a team of "solid footballers" or extra effort players. Where is the defense splitting pass and the skill to create something out of nothing in the blink of an eye. We may get the pass to say Walcott, but the clinical finish from that point on? Don't see it myself, which is where I think we'll come unstuck again.

 

Mind you other teams have ground out WC wins in the past.

 

We're England, it is our destiny to be "unlucky semi-final losers" or knocked out on Penalties in the Quarters so we can say IF ONLY for another 4 years

 

Always been that way though hasn't it, English managers seem scared of players who are a bit different and dont fit into a specific system, hence why MLT never got a break at that level. How long did it take Bobby Robson, probably the best English manager since Sir Alf, to take the shackles off Gazza? I remember Gazza in his early days coming on in a game and being superb, creative, attacking a breath of fresh air after Ray wilkins and co and Robson slated him for holding onto the ball to much. We seem to try to shoehorn all our players into a rigid 4-4-2 where the team play in straight lines whilst the top nations like Brazil, Spain at the moment, france when they won it, even the Dutch pick a system to suit the best players available.

[westofshannonsaint]

Would Saints beat England?

 

If it came down to penalties we would

[alpine_saint]

After tonights performance, I feel totally vindicated.

[dune]

Arrrrrrghhhh, i miised this thread and i missed alpine.

[dune]

After tonights performance, I feel totally vindicated.

 

Did you want to become a german?:confused:

[Smirking_Saint]

After tonights performance, I feel totally vindicated.

 

We played well tonight :confused:

[John B]

After tonights performance, I feel totally vindicated.

 

I think it just shows you have little idea of football something many have suspected for some time.

[VectisSaint]

We played well tonight :confused:

No we didn't, that was bull**** being peddled by the fecking awful ITV commentator (Tyldesley). Trying to cover up the fact that apart from the first few minutes there was very little inventiveness or spark in the performance. I assume Tyldesley is Heskey's dad or something, his fawning every time the donkey touched the ball was frankly pathetic.

 

Hopefully things will get better, first games in WCs are always boring, menaingless encounters, and clearly this wasn't the worst (France can take credit for that) but to say we played well last night is just plain wrong.

[John B]

No we didn't, that was bull**** being peddled by the fecking awful ITV commentator (Tyldesley). Trying to cover up the fact that apart from the first few minutes there was very little inventiveness or spark in the performance. I assume Tyldesley is Heskey's dad or something, his fawning every time the donkey touched the ball was frankly pathetic.

 

Hopefully things will get better, first games in WCs are always boring, menaingless encounters, and clearly this wasn't the worst (France can take credit for that) but to say we played well last night is just plain wrong.

 

I agree it was not a surprising result really as our performances against Mexico and Japan were not good.

 

 

I feel slightly sorry for Green because most goalies make **** ups from time to time including our own Kelvin but if Heskey had scored he would not be feeling so bad now.

 

 

You would have thought our team would have beaten USA Easily

[Professor]

Against the USA, would Rickie Lambert or David Connolly have missed the chance that Hesky put straight at the keeper?

Was there any moment when Green played better than Kelvin Davies?

It suggests that the difference between players picked for the international side and players playing 2 divisions below them is marginal and doesn't reflect the difference in transfer fees and pay.

[BARCELONASAINT]

The trouble with England and i mean the country as a whole is that we build ourselves up for a fall ALL THE TIME.

We are a fairly average side with one or two very good players.

Feel sorry for Rob Green and his inclusion is Capello's fault.

The back 4 are as slow as carthorses (apart from Ashley Cole)

Gerrard seemed to revel in his captaincy roll and played very well.

Lampard was average.

I don't think our wingers did enough and Wright-Phillips really ****es me off with his blind running.

Rooney was very quiet for too much of the game...he had brief spurts of what he is capable off but not enough.

I'm no fan of Heskey at all BUT i thought he was excellent apart from his sitter he missed. He won everything, his passing was excellent and his link up play was good.

I would love us to go on and win the tournament but i am realistic to know we lack the qaulity and depth throughout our squad.

[latter day saint]

The trouble with England and i mean the country as a whole is that we build ourselves up for a fall ALL THE TIME.

We are a fairly average side with one or two very good players.

Feel sorry for Rob Green and his inclusion is Capello's fault.

The back 4 are as slow as carthorses (apart from Ashley Cole)

Gerrard seemed to revel in his captaincy roll and played very well.

Lampard was average.

I don't think our wingers did enough and Wright-Phillips really ****es me off with his blind running.

Rooney was very quiet for too much of the game...he had brief spurts of what he is capable off but not enough.

I'm no fan of Heskey at all BUT i thought he was excellent apart from his sitter he missed. He won everything, his passing was excellent and his link up play was good.

I would love us to go on and win the tournament but i am realistic to know we lack the qaulity and depth throughout our squad.

 

agree with all of this. also,we don't seem to play as a team,more a collection of individuals.

[alpine_saint]

I think it just shows you have little idea of football something many have suspected for some time.

 

Yeah. Right.

 

I challenge you to justify that comment. Our team plays as a team, just like the USA did.

 

England are a bunch of over-paid individuals, and not very good ones either.

[John B]

The trouble with England and i mean the country as a whole is that we build ourselves up for a fall ALL THE TIME.

We are a fairly average side with one or two very good players.

Feel sorry for Rob Green and his inclusion is Capello's fault.

The back 4 are as slow as carthorses (apart from Ashley Cole)

Gerrard seemed to revel in his captaincy roll and played very well.

Lampard was average.

I don't think our wingers did enough and Wright-Phillips really ****es me off with his blind running.

Rooney was very quiet for too much of the game...he had brief spurts of what he is capable off but not enough.

I'm no fan of Heskey at all BUT i thought he was excellent apart from his sitter he missed. He won everything, his passing was excellent and his link up play was good.

I would love us to go on and win the tournament but i am realistic to know we lack the qaulity and depth throughout our squad.

 

 

I agree with most of what you say

 

 

However I thought Green was the best choice I know he made a mistake but generally his keeping and distributution has been good.

 

 

A fit Ledley King and Rio Ferninand would make a very good CB Partnership

 

 

The problem with quality and depth is down to one thing - too many foreign players in the Premiership not allowing our ones to develop.

 

 

When we were in the Premiership we had a collection of non English players Jacobsen Van Damme Crainey McCann Nillsson (Swedish RB) etc who kept out English players

[John B]

Yeah. Right.

 

I challenge you to justify that comment. Our team plays as a team, just like the USA did.

 

England are a bunch of over-paid individuals, and not very good ones either.

 

Is this based on one match or over the last couple of years

 

By the way I thought you said Saints were crap against Tranmere and Wycombe with no ideas how to play

Edited 13 June, 2010 by John B

[alpine_saint]

Is this based on one match or over the last couple of years

 

By the way I thought you said Saints were crap against Tranmere and Wycombe with no ideas how to play

 

England have been crap over-paid individuals for ages. They were gash in 2006 too, and it was largely the same first 11.

 

As for the second comment, sorry, you will have to explain its relevance for me.

[skintsaint]

England have been crap over-paid individuals for ages. They were gash in 2006 too, and it was largely the same first 11.

 

As for the second comment, sorry, you will have to explain its relevance for me.

 

jeez...would Saints have qualified for the world cup as easily as England did? No..

[John B]

England have been crap over-paid individuals for ages. They were gash in 2006 too, and it was largely the same first 11.

 

As for the second comment, sorry, you will have to explain its relevance for me.

 

How gash is gash they did get to the last eight.

 

 

They may not win the World Cup but they are one of the better teams in the World amongst the best thirty two in the World at the moment

 

Where as Southampton one of the better teams in League 1 are amongst the best sixty six teams in Engaland.

 

 

Sometimes Saints are gash sometimes but often they are not just like England that is football something you seem not to understand .

 

 

Sometimes the other team plays well and deserves to get something out of the game.

[StuRomseySaint]

Is it because when I watch Saints its using saints rose tinted glasses but we look a better team than england

 

Yes player for player england are far far better but as a team saints look more organised & together while england often look disjointed & like the players have never seen each other play

 

Are you on drugs?

[St Landrew]

No we didn't, that was bull**** being peddled by the fecking awful ITV commentator (Tyldesley). Trying to cover up the fact that apart from the first few minutes there was very little inventiveness or spark in the performance. I assume Tyldesley is Heskey's dad or something, his fawning every time the donkey touched the ball was frankly pathetic.

 

Hopefully things will get better, first games in WCs are always boring, menaingless encounters, and clearly this wasn't the worst (France can take credit for that) but to say we played well last night is just plain wrong.

 

And yet, for a little while, Heskey was England's best player. Which illustrates how poor England were. England's only decent, and quite slick, move involved Heskey and Gerrard, which brought the goal. Apart from that, there was virtually nothing.

[Nexstar]

And yet, for a little while, Heskey was England's best player. Which illustrates how poor England were. England's only decent, and quite slick, move involved Heskey and Gerrard, which brought the goal. Apart from that, there was virtually nothing.

 

I thought we outclassed the USA all over the field, they were forced to have pot shots from 30-yards (which shouldn't go in...) and only managed 1 shot on target from inside the box. England defended well and created lots down the right and left, it was a shame the crossing, from Lennon mainly, was sub-standard and the finishing was poor from Heskey and SWP. I also thought Heskey played well and had some nice touches, despite falling over at least 10 times, and I thought Glen Johnson had a fantastic game and was easily England's best player - great going forward and solid at the back).

 

England did enough to win the game and were obviously unlucky with Rob Green, but play like that against Slovenia and Algeria and we should have no worries about going through.

[saintjinksie]

And yet, for a little while, Heskey was England's best player. Which illustrates how poor England were. England's only decent, and quite slick, move involved Heskey and Gerrard, which brought the goal. Apart from that, there was virtually nothing.

 

heskey was our best player for about 5 seconds when he set up stevie g, he missed the best chance of the game and another header. crouchy should start ahead of him. Rickie lambert could have played instead of heskey IMO

[farawaysaint]

heskey was our best player for about 5 seconds when he set up stevie g, he missed the best chance of the game and another header. crouchy should start ahead of him. Rickie lambert could have played instead of heskey IMO

 

I hate you for opening this can of worms

[alpine_saint]

How gash is gash they did get to the last eight.

 

 

They may not win the World Cup but they are one of the better teams in the World amongst the best thirty two in the World at the moment

 

Where as Southampton one of the better teams in League 1 are amongst the best sixty six teams in Engaland.

 

 

Sometimes Saints are gash sometimes but often they are not just like England that is football something you seem not to understand .

 

 

Sometimes the other team plays well and deserves to get something out of the game.

 

It is clearly you who does not understand football.

 

How many times has a lower-league team beaten a PL team in a cup competition ? And most PL teams are not even fully English, their quality enhanced by foreign players.

 

I contest that England would struggle to be a PL team, and by the element of uncertainty in one-off (cup) games where a PL team has often lost to teams as low as L1, that Saints would or could beat England.

[John B]

It is clearly you who does not understand football.

 

How many times has a lower-league team beaten a PL team in a cup competition ? And most PL teams are not even fully English, their quality enhanced by foreign players.

 

I contest that England would struggle to be a PL team, and by the element of uncertainty in one-off (cup) games where a PL team has often lost to teams as low as L1, that Saints would or could beat England.

 

OK be deluded if you want

[scott_saints]

I like threads like this. Makes you realise how little some people know about football.

[hypochondriac]

Lol at Alpine.

[alpine_saint]

OK be deluded if you want

 

Wow, a comprehensive rebuttal of my opinion

[alpine_saint]

Lol at Alpine.

 

Lol at hypochondriac.

[John B]

Wow, a comprehensive rebuttal of my opinion

 

Well I suppose now you will be saying Saints would Stuff Spain after today's result

 

As trhe Swiss gave a defensive masterclass against Spain. The whole performance epitomised resilience and teamwork

Edited 16 June, 2010 by John B

[Turkish]

I am still yet to see Messi dominate a game in an argentinian shirt and so that sort of negates the point you are trying to make.

 

Our big players do perform and have done so on many occasions, tearing Croatia a new one twice is one time, we also looked good in 2002 before crashing out to Brazil, however i think that was more to do with crap tactics then the players.

 

Good to see our 'world class players' playing so well yet again in a tournement smirking saint, as they have done on so many occasons according to you, must be that manager again.

Edited 18 June, 2010 by Turkish

[S-Clarke]

i tell you what, roll on the season. International football is ****e.

 

(although i probably won't be saying that after a 0-0 at Dagenham)

[RedWillie]

Rickie for England !

 

Can't do any worse than that shower of over paid, over rated buch of illiterate ponces

[S-Clarke]

Rickie for England !

 

Can't do any worse than that shower of over paid, over rated buch of illiterate ponces

 

i'm sure he would have offered a bit more than heskey!