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Barnard vs Ormerod

Saint Fan CaM

By Saint Fan CaM
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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

Posted
Posted

OK, this is likely to be a little contraversial, but I was wondering which one of these two you would rather have up front with Rickie?

 

Personally, I do not think there's much difference in their style atall or indeed their ability. I would be hard pressed to decide who my pick would be TBH, however instinctively I think I would vote for Barnie. I have this gut feeling that when we go up next season, he will shine in the CCC.

St Landrew

St Landrew

Posted
Posted
I know Im sorry, I usually hate the grammar and spelling police. Dont know what came over me !

 

That's OK, the spelling and grammar police made the arrest anyway. ;)

 

I've been waiting for this question to come up ever since Saturday afternoon, 1st half injury time. Will Brett Ormerod get another go in the Premiership..? It's unlikely. At 33, will he get another go in the Championship. It's more than likely. But will Saints have a look at him again..? Do they need to..?

 

For me, Brett was never prolific enough as a striker at SFC. He ended up being a feeder striker for Beattie, and that couldn't last forever. We all know he worked very hard, and probably still does, knowing him. But so does Barnard, and he is prolific.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was chuffed to see Brett winning at Wembley. It was just like him also to be so thrilled with winning as to be totally gobsmacked when being interviewed on the pitch immediately afterwards. He kept saying... I don't know what to say... I don't know what to say... Then he looked over to his teammates and said... look, they're celebrating... can I go..? I don't want to miss it..! To which the interviewer urged... Go on... on you go..! It was a lovely moment.

david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted

I've been waiting for this question to come up ever since Saturday afternoon, 1st half injury time. Will Brett Ormerod get another go in the Premiership..? It's unlikely. At 33, will he get another go in the Championship. It's more than likely. But will Saints have a look at him again..? Do they need to..?

 

For me, Brett was never prolific enough as a striker at SFC. He ended up being a feeder striker for Beattie, and that couldn't last forever. We all know he worked very hard, and probably still does, knowing him. But so does Barnard, and he is prolific.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was chuffed to see Brett winning at Wembley. QUOTE.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts Landrew,

Brett had his day of glory at Wembley and deserved it for career effort.

He was a hard worker and good provider for Beattie (in what was BT's best season) but hardly a great striker.

He may well start in the opening games next season but will be on the bench by October and gone by January.

 

Historically at least 2 of the 3 promoted sides struggle every new season (Hull were lucky to stay up in their first year), but sadly I say ..

I expect Blackpool to be slaughtered next season..because even if they start well in the first few games. Holloway is no tactical genius and most Prem. scouts will have figured out his playing tactics after 4 games.

SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted

Brett has Premiership experience, Barnard has next to none. Aside from that it's tough to choose. Barnard is a more natural goalscorer, I remember Strachan once saying that if Brett had to think about placing a shot then he'd miss. Barnard also works his arse off for the cause, as did Brett. For where we are now, with a 25 year old Barnard or a 33 year old Brett, I'd take Barnard, I just hope he stays clear of his past injury troubles next season.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
So you think Barnard could comfortably sit in a midtable Premier League team at the moment is what you're saying?

 

Ormerod is a nice guy and I was pleased for him at the weekend, but let's not kid oursleves with false nostalgia. He was rubbish, bordering on woeful for Saints.

 

In answer to the OP, even if it was Woggy vs Ormerod ..... I'd take Woggy.

Barry the Badger

Barry the Badger

Posted
Posted
Well, I still disagree with that.

 

Then you are forgetting where we are now.

 

At his peak Brett Ormerod was a vital part of a side that finished 8th in the Premier League.

 

At his peak Lee Barnard is playing in League One. A good player at this level but can you honestly see him playing for a top 8 prem side?

AndyNorthernSaints

AndyNorthernSaints

Posted
Posted
If the alternative was Brett Ormerod, yes.

 

Brett Ormerod was part of the best Saints team in decades which got to a cup final and finished 8th in the premier league.

 

Ask Beattie who was his best strike partner?

 

Has Barnard played in the premier league on a regular basis?

 

Has Barnard scored in a fa cup semi final? scored at Anfield etc against Liverpool, scored and set up winning goals in the premier league?

 

Barnard is a decent player at our current level that is why he playing in league 1.

Dynamo Naive

Dynamo Naive

Posted
Posted
Ormerod is a nice guy and I was pleased for him at the weekend, but let's not kid oursleves with false nostalgia. He was rubbish, bordering on woeful for Saints.

 

In answer to the OP, even if it was Woggy vs Ormerod ..... I'd take Woggy.

 

I really hope this is a wind-up, because although Ormerod wasn't the greatest striker to pull on a Saints jersey, he always put a great shift in, allowed others around him to play their natural game, and scored some crucial goals. Villa Park FA Cup semi, for example.

 

Lovely down to earth bloke too.

Barry the Badger

Barry the Badger

Posted
Posted
In the way that Brett did, why not? Brett was a worker who had a couple of fairly good years, but still didn't score many.

 

Every year, we see a few poor strikers getting a chance in the top flight, because we keep seeing small clubs get up there. Now Brett could be back, which is ridiculous. On that basis, Barnard could get a chance.

 

I'd rather have Barnard anyway. I'd be very disappointed it we couldn't beat Blackpool. They've done a brilliant job, but they aren't a very good team and it could get embarassing next season. Burnley did better than expecting but were still ****ing awful 90% of the time.

 

You are all mental.

 

You would be dissapointed if we couldn't beat Blackpool? The team that just got promoted to the Premier League?

 

Mental.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
I really hope this is a wind-up, because although Ormerod wasn't the greatest striker to pull on a Saints jersey, he always put a great shift in, allowed others around him to play their natural game, and scored some crucial goals. Villa Park FA Cup semi, for example.

 

Lovely down to earth bloke too.

 

Met him a couple of times and a yes a really nice bloke (As i already said)

 

Put a red and white shirt on me and I'd give you two bleeding lungs, that wouldnt make me a premier striker and neither did it Ormerod.

 

Sometimes it's the shape of a team that wins games, so happy to hear the argument, that he was worth his place on that merit, but remain very unconvinced.

 

It always makes me laugh, when people talk about how many goals he set up ..... people should go and check his stats.

 

He was a striker and his goals and assists stats were shocking and not good enough.

Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted

If selecting now,at their current ages then Barnard is the better option at 25.

 

If making a comparison from them at their prime - different teams,different era so always a spurious measure - then it should be borne in mind that Ormerod was a freescoring striker at our present level which earnt him a move to the Prem.

 

Ormerod did well for us at that level,and made a significant contribution to 2002/3 season etc.

 

Ormerod would get my vote for which one whilst at their peak,but Barnard may of course go on to change that view next season.

Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
Then you are forgetting where we are now.

 

At his peak Brett Ormerod was a vital part of a side that finished 8th in the Premier League.

 

At his peak Lee Barnard is playing in League One. A good player at this level but can you honestly see him playing for a top 8 prem side?

 

Brett Ormerod was part of the best Saints team in decades which got to a cup final and finished 8th in the premier league.

 

Ask Beattie who was his best strike partner?

 

Has Barnard played in the premier league on a regular basis?

 

Has Barnard scored in a fa cup semi final? scored at Anfield etc against Liverpool, scored and set up winning goals in the premier league?

 

Barnard is a decent player at our current level that is why he playing in league 1.

 

Nail on guys,

 

also, BT would never have scored the goals he did was it not for Bretts enthusiasm and work ethic.

Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted

The stats point to Brett being the better of the two as well:

 

Premier:

BO: 17 goals in 95 (0.18 goals per game)

LB: 0 in 3 (0)

 

Champ:

BO: 30 in 150 (0.2)

LB: N/A

 

League 1:

BO: 2 in 18 (0.11)

LB: 47 in 105 (0.45)

 

League 2:

BO: 36 in 102 (0.35)

LB: 0 in 13 (0)

 

League 3:

BO: 27 in 49 (0.55)

LB: 0 in 3 (0)

 

Conf Prem:

BO: N/A

LB: 1 in 4 (0.25)

 

Nrn Prem Lg:

BO: 32 in 54 (0.59)

LB: N/A

 

Career to date:

BO: 144 in 468 (0.31)

LB: 48 in 128 (0.37)

 

 

Both work endlessly, running about and pulling defenders with them. Both create opportunities for their partners. IMO while Lee might (just) have a better finish, Brett has more pace - as such, despite having similar workrates, Brett's pace can pull a defensive line out of shape more easily than Lee can. If you take the age difference out of the equation, Ormerod offers more to a team than Barnard.

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
Nail on guys,

 

also, BT would never have scored the goals he did was it not for Bretts enthusiasm and work ethic.

 

Yes, but Barnards enthusiasm and work ethic is just as good as Ormerods. Therefore he could have done the job Ormerod did back at the start of the last decade.

The9

The9

Posted
Posted

Erm, whilst I like your stats, anything that contains a category for "League 3" seriously has to be looked at as flawed.

 

Ormerod scored 18 in 21 in Division Two (aka League One) in 2001/2 before we signed him - where are those stats ? They can only be in "League 2:

BO: 36 in 102 (0.35)" which means they're being compared to Barnard's goals in League Two, which is frankly stupid and misleading.

 

And actually, surprisingly, Barnard has the better "3rd tier" strikerate - though that's mostly because Brett was poor for a few years at Blackpool before he found himself.

The9

The9

Posted
Posted
Yes, but Barnards enthusiasm and work ethic is just as good as Ormerods. Therefore he could have done the job Ormerod did back at the start of the last decade.

 

I've never seen Barnard even once put in anything resembling Ormerod's workrate.

SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
I've never seen Barnard even once put in anything resembling Ormerod's workrate.
Every time I've seen him play, he's worked his little socks off so much, he's left the pitch at half time with a ruddy face and dripping with sweat.

 

I would say that Harding and Barnard are the hardest working players on the pitch, big fat IMO though, as everyone reads the game differently, and I haven't seen every game Barnard's played in.

 

Right here, right now, I wouldn't swap Barnard for Ormerod.

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Brett Ormerod was part of the best Saints team in decades which got to a cup final and finished 8th in the premier league.

 

.

 

If you take the "s" off and put an "a" before "decade" you would be about right.

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
Every time I've seen him play, he's worked his little socks off so much, he's left the pitch at half time with a ruddy face and dripping with sweat.

 

I would say that Harding and Barnard are the hardest working players on the pitch, big fat IMO though, as everyone reads the game differently, and I haven't seen every game Barnard's played in.

 

Right here, right now, I wouldn't swap Barnard for Ormerod.

 

I completely agree. He works incredibly hard, which has led to people who aren't at the games wondering whether Pardew doesn't rate him (because he always takes him off at around the 70th minute) when in actual fact it's just because he runs himself into the ground every single game.

Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
Yes, but Barnards enthusiasm and work ethic is just as good as Ormerods. Therefore he could have done the job Ormerod did back at the start of the last decade.

 

His workrate may indeed be on a par with Ormerod's but the simple fact is that Ormerod was playing at a level two divisions higher than where we are now.

Barry the Badger

Barry the Badger

Posted
Posted
Every time I've seen him play, he's worked his little socks off so much, he's left the pitch at half time with a ruddy face and dripping with sweat.

 

.

 

I leave the pitch with a ruddy face and dripping with sweat every time I play but it doesn't mean I've covered more ground than a 26 year old Brett Ormerod would have. They guy had an engine like very few players I've seen for us.

 

I don't deny that Barnard works hard for the team and ends up knackered, but he does not cover the ground that Ormerod used to and he does not do it with as much pace.

 

Also, it's not just about working hard, it's about how, where and when you do it. I happen to think that Ormerod's brand of hard work was more effective for the team than Barnards.

 

Just to add finally, I'm in no way anti-Barnard, he's an excellent player for us, just frustrates me the lack of credit Ormerod gets from some people.

Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
Just to add finally, I'm in no way anti-Barnard, he's an excellent player for us, just frustrates me the lack of credit Ormerod gets from some people.

 

Doing a good job in a workmanlike manner was not enough.

 

I think Ormerod suffered from an image crisis,if he had a silly haircut or multiple diamond earrings he would have gained a greater status.

 

Better still get sent off for the occasional reckless challenge,but always be seen clapping the crowd long after others have left the pitch.

 

It is rather like David Armstrong who Lawrie suggested might have been noticed and played for England years before he made it,if he had an earring.

Tom & Gerry

Tom & Gerry

Posted
Posted

I'm a bit anti - Barnard. It's probably the colour of his boots. He does run about a lot but why does he fall over every time the ball comes to him? any way Ormerod was better so was Saga probably.

Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
I'm a bit anti - Barnard. It's probably the colour of his boots. He does run about a lot but why does he fall over every time the ball comes to him? any way Ormerod was better so was Saga probably.

 

:rolleyes:

How anyone can be anti-Barnard based on what we've seen is beyond me.

Tom & Gerry

Tom & Gerry

Posted
Posted
:rolleyes:

How anyone can be anti-Barnard based on what we've seen is beyond me.

 

How you can like someone with boots that colour is beyond me:o

 

A couple of nice goals and a few tap ins but mostly unproductive is what I've seen. You've obviously seen more, I hope you're right.

Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted (edited)
Erm, whilst I like your stats, anything that contains a category for "League 3" seriously has to be looked at as flawed.

 

Ormerod scored 18 in 21 in Division Two (aka League One) in 2001/2 before we signed him - where are those stats ? They can only be in "League 2:

BO: 36 in 102 (0.35)" which means they're being compared to Barnard's goals in League Two, which is frankly stupid and misleading.

 

And actually, surprisingly, Barnard has the better "3rd tier" strikerate - though that's mostly because Brett was poor for a few years at Blackpool before he found himself.

 

Ay, my mistake (forgot the 2004/5 rebranding). Actual stats (all competitions):

 

Premier:

BO: 17 goals in 95 (0.18 goals per game)

LB: 0 in 3 (0)

 

Champ:

BO: 30 in 150 (0.2)

LB: N/A

 

League 1 (2nd Division):

BO: 38 in 120 (0.32)

LB: 47 in 105 (0.45)

 

League 2 (3rd Division):

BO: 27 in 49 (0.55)

LB: 0 in 16 (0)

 

Conf Prem:

BO: N/A

LB: 1 in 4 (0.25)

 

Nrn Prem Lg:

BO: 32 in 54 (0.59)

LB: N/A

 

Career to date:

BO: 144 in 468 (0.31)

LB: 48 in 128 (0.37)

Edited by Joensuu

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