Re Season Tickets

[Matthew Le God]

Believe it or not, there is a world outside this forum

 

I heard the £125 rumour months ago, long before it appeared on here.

 

Doesn't explain my other questions.

 

Also doesn't say where the speculation come from in the article. Unfounded speculation without source or quote yet again. Basically column filling with the unfounded speculation from non specified sources has got to make you think what they teach them on university journalism courses.

 

Anyone can write an article that says "there is speculation that..." Justifying that is a different matter and is what journalist should do but most don't. Charlie Brooker sums them up well.

[Danny]

Then why is Simon Francis on the list? The Sky Sports article clicking his name links to makes no reference to Southampton. There was however a thread on this forum where it was merely suggested that Saints "may" be the club.

 

If you click on Mike Grella the source is a Leeds forum. So they clearly forums have been used so you can't deny you don't use forums.

 

Where have the Luke Varney, Lee Trundle, Jamie Ward, Darcey Blake, Danny Ings rumours come from as there are no sources provided for these?

 

Where did the "speculation for the £125 season tickets" come from in an article today? Was it the thread on here where I merely used it as a discussion point and said I thought it very unlikely to happen or even this thread?

 

Erm, the world does extend beyond this forum!

 

The transfer rumours are a combination of various things - mainly agent chatter, stuff in the national papers and things readers have seen/heard and sent in (for example, the Grella and Francis links) to me via email or by leaving comments on the story - it's no secret and is why I made that quite clear in the story. If they don't have links, that's because the rumour has not come from an online source.

 

I don't use this forum to that end as there's no point - most posts are about the players people would like to see (but not actual transfer rumours) or are just links that I (or Echo readers) have already spotted to stories on other websites.

 

I'm pleased to see the article gets so much attention though - in the three weeks it's been running, it's already had over 100,000 hits on its own - so it's obvious the vast majority of people like it.

 

As for the £125 thing, well that has been going around for weeks. You only need to walk into a pub or read the comments on the Echo site to see people are talking about it - even if they doubt it'll come true. The paper has to reflect what readers are talking about.

[stevegrant]

Doesn't explain my other questions.

 

Also doesn't say where the speculation come from in the article. Unfounded speculation without source or quote yet again. Basically column filling with the unfounded speculation from non specified sources has got to make you think what they teach them on university journalism courses.

 

Anyone can write an article that says "there is speculation that..." Justifying that is a different matter and is what journalist should do but most don't. Charlie Brooker sums them up well.

OK then, Mr High and Mighty... what would you do to fill the pages of empty space in newspapers (not just the Echo) when there isn't anything you deem newsworthy to go in them?

 

Printing fewer pages is not an option, by the way, for economic reasons.

[benjii]

OK then, Mr High and Mighty... what would you do to fill the pages of empty space in newspapers (not just the Echo) when there isn't anything you deem newsworthy to go in them?

 

Printing fewer pages is not an option, by the way, for economic reasons.

 

Right decent in-depth articles rather than banal pointless guff. Something that exhibits some sort of better-than-average high-school-standard ability to write?

 

Then again, I think the Echo is probably aimed at the over 50s and the dim and that is what they seem to like.

[100%Red&White]

As for the £125 thing, well that has been going around for weeks. You only need to walk into a pub or read the comments on the Echo site to see people are talking about it - even if they doubt it'll come true. The paper has to reflect what readers are talking about.

 

More reason the club should get on and announce prices asap, as this rumour is growing and probably becoming "fact" in some circles, so when it's announced they're only the same or going up on last year's then some are likely to start throwing toys.

[Danny]

Doesn't explain my other questions.

 

Also doesn't say where the speculation come from in the article. Unfounded speculation without source or quote yet again. Basically column filling with the unfounded speculation from non specified sources has got to make you think what they teach them on university journalism courses.

 

Anyone can write an article that says "there is speculation that..." Justifying that is a different matter and is what journalist should do but most don't. Charlie Brooker sums them up well.

 

Tell you what MLG, why not come into the Echo offices one day? We have all sorts of people come in for experience of life in the newsroom from time to time (from trainee reporters to pensioners who have won "day in the life of.." competitions). It won't cost you anything and you can shadow the sport reporters (or news reporters, where I predominantly work).

 

I'd suggest waiting until after the World Cup, as there will be more Saints new going around then. Email anne.dickie@dailyecho.co.uk and tell her you are interested in coming in.

[Matthew Le God]

OK then, Mr High and Mighty... what would you do to fill the pages of empty space in newspapers (not just the Echo) when there isn't anything you deem newsworthy to go in them?

 

Printing fewer pages is not an option, by the way, for economic reasons.

 

I'd rather have fewer pages of actual news than a paper bloated out by idle unsubstantiated gossip.

[Matthew Le God]

This is a newspaper where none of the journalists know what the word ironic means and use the term in nearly every Saints related article. How professional, university trained journalists don't know this I don't know!

 

For example...

 

It is not ironic that Morgan Schneiderlin was going to be playing for France vs Denmark last night against the keeper that he scored against for Saints when they played Bristol Rovers. Merely a coincidence at best.

 

Nor is it ironic if a player scores against a former club.

 

Admittedly it is not just the Echo that do this and it seems to cover most of the national press.

Edited 26 May, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Danny]

I'd rather have fewer pages of actual news than a paper bloated out by idle unsubstantiated gossip.

 

"Idle unsubstantiated gossip" is usually the most popular part of the sports pages in any paper (see the diary columns, transfer columns etc.). Why would you cut out the most popular content?

[Matthew Le God]

"Idle unsubstantiated gossip" is usually the most popular part of the sports pages in any paper (see the diary columns, transfer columns etc.). Why would you cut out the most popular content?

 

Yes, in tabloids to shift papers and increase circulation.

 

You don't see it so much in the broadsheets unless they are a little more confident that it is true.

 

I would like the Echo to be more of a local broadsheet than a local paper that acts like a tabloid.

[Danny]

In tabloids, yes to shift papers and increase circulation.

 

You don't see it so much in the broadsheets unless they are a little more confident that it is true.

 

I would like the Echo to be more of a local broadsheet than a local paper that acts like a tabloid.

 

I can only assume you don't read the diarists in the 'broadsheets' (technically, the Telegraph is the only broadsheet these days) as this is all they are - 'unsubstantiated' news that has no attributed source.

 

As I've said, come in and see how it works rather than talking about it on here. It is a serious invitation.

[Wurzel]

 

As for the £125 thing, well that has been going around for weeks. You only need to walk into a pub or read the comments on the Echo site to see people are talking about it - even if they doubt it'll come true. The paper has to reflect what readers are talking about.

 

Come on Dan, when did that all change then? Back in the "old days" when I used to buy the Evening Echo people' s conversations reflected what they'd read in the Echo. Are you telling us now that the roles have been reversed ?

[hypochondriac]

Danny you have my support on this one. People will always have a pop but I see nothing wrong with anything in that article.

[stevegrant]

Yes, in tabloids to shift papers and increase circulation.

Which newspapers aren't trying to increase circulation, just out of interest?

[stevegrant]

Come on Dan, when did that all change then? Back in the "old days" when I used to buy the Evening Echo people' s conversations reflected what they'd read in the Echo. Are you telling us now that the roles have been reversed ?

I'd say that's probably a fair assessment, actually, particularly with 24-hour news, instant access to news on the internet, etc. The printed press are, 99.9% of the time, behind the times in terms of when the news is actually reported.

 

In the past, you often only heard about something once it had been in the papers.

[Matthew Le God]

As I've said, come in and see how it works rather than talking about it on here. It is a serious invitation.

 

I won't be coming in as I see little point. I'd be treated like a work experience kid and also many in the office would be aware of the reason I was there and it would be extremely awkward. The output gives me a good idea of the input, GIGO.

Edited 26 May, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[benjii]

I'd say that's probably a fair assessment, actually, particularly with 24-hour news, instant access to news on the internet, etc. The printed press are, 99.9% of the time, behind the times in terms of when the news is actually reported.

 

In the past, you often only heard about something once it had been in the papers.

 

Exactly, which is why the only way they can be of any value is if they go that extra mile in their analysis and actually write something worth reading or add a new slant on things. Merely rehashing information available more accessibly and freely elsewhere is a pretty duff business model.

[Danny]

Come on Dan, when did that all change then? Back in the "old days" when I used to buy the Evening Echo people' s conversations reflected what they'd read in the Echo. Are you telling us now that the roles have been reversed ?

 

That's a chicken and the egg scenario really.

 

Something happens --> People talk --> Paper finds out & covers it --> More people talk about it --> Paper follows it up --> More people etc..

 

(Of course, where you enter in on that chain depends on your view of where you heard about it).

 

The key difference now is that when something happens, more people know about it quicker, through text messages, forums, rolling news, websites etc.

[saint_stevo]

I can only assume you don't read the diarists in the 'broadsheets' (technically, the Telegraph is the only broadsheet these days) as this is all they are - 'unsubstantiated' news that has no attributed source.

 

As I've said, come in and see how it works rather than talking about it on here. It is a serious invitation.

 

ahhhh Mr Kerins i presume......?

[benjii]

This is a newspaper where none of the journalists know what the word ironic means and use the term in nearly every Saints related article. How professional, university trained journalists don't know this I don't know!

 

For example...

 

It is not ironic that Morgan Schneiderlin was going to be playing for France vs Denmark last night against the keeper that he scored against for Saints when they played Bristol Rovers. Merely a coincidence at best.

 

Nor is it ironic if a player scores against a former club.

 

Admittedly it is not just the Echo that do this and it seems to cover most of the national press.

 

Why do football commentators always use "ironic" when they mean "sarcastic"? I've never got that.

[stevegrant]

Exactly, which is why the only way they can be of any value is if they go that extra mile in their analysis and actually write something worth reading or add a new slant on things. Merely rehashing information available more accessibly and freely elsewhere is a pretty duff business model.

It would seem so, but that's not an Echo-specific gripe, really. All newspapers globally are struggling to come to terms with the spontaneity of news these days, people get so much of their news from free sources that are more up-to-date. However, there is still a significant proportion of the population who first read their news from the local paper.

 

Interesting that today sees the launch of The Times' paid-for news website - I'm expecting it to fail miserably, but it'll be an interesting test case to see if news is actually worth paying for.

[Matthew Le God]

The paper has to reflect what readers are talking about.

 

It becomes self fueling then and a snowball effect ensues. Someone reads a rumour on a site, they talk about it, the Echo report this chatter, someone sees it in the Echo and they talk about it and post it on another site, the Echo sees this and passes comment and on and on...

 

As for using opinions of the readership it is nearly as bad as Sky and BBC news using viewers comments in news items and then using the views section as a news story itself.

 

Why does the Echo continue to use the unelected voice of the fans like the Saints Trust and SISA - a tiny % of the fanbase. I find it hard to believe their representative even consult their small memberbase on views before providing quotes. Let alone the voice of all Saints fans.

 

The Echo today used quotes from one Saints fan who happened to be in the SISA as the foundation to nearly an entire article. That isn't "news". That is the opinion of an opinionated fan bloated out to make a story.

 

I'm as you can see an opinionated fan. You wouldn't use my views as the basis of a story would you? (awaits tomorrow's Echo headline )

Edited 26 May, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Danny]

I won't be coming in as I see little point. I'd be treated like a work experience kid and also many in the office would be aware of the reason I was there and would be extremely awkward. The output gives me a good idea of the input, GIGO.

 

Well, that's a shame, as you make some wild assumptions about what actually goes on in newsrooms and how stories are formulated.

 

This would be a good chance for you to find out what actually happens rather than believing the same list of accusations/insults at aimed journalists (for example some of the ones I've had thrown at me: lazy hack, copy-and-pasting from xxx site, get all their stories from here, have a hidden agenda, must be a Pompey fan, etc).

 

No-one would know why you were here (after all, you don't use your real name on here, so unless you apply as 'Matthew Le God' I'd have no way of knowing who you were, nor would anyone else) and assuming you're a competent person, you wouldn't be treated like a 15-year-old child on work experience. After all, we have dozens of people do this every year (plus far more teenagers on actual work experience too).

 

If you change your mind (it may even be that you come in and find you were right after all!) please do get in touch with the email address I mentioned earlier.

[Saint_clark]

 

It is not ironic that Morgan Schneiderlin was going to be playing for France vs Denmark last night against the keeper that he scored against for Saints when they played Bristol Rovers. Merely a coincidence at best.

 

Nor is it ironic if a player scores against a former club.

 

Motson does this all the time, p*sses me right off.

[Wurzel]

That's a chicken and the egg scenario really.

 

Something happens --> People talk --> Paper finds out & covers it --> More people talk about it --> Paper follows it up --> More people etc..

 

(Of course, where you enter in on that chain depends on your view of where you heard about it).

 

The key difference now is that when something happens, more people know about it quicker, through text messages, forums, rolling news, websites etc.

 

Fair point, things are different now than they were in the old days, with more immediate access to news etc.

 

But whilst I appreciate your chain and your where you enter it analogy my biggest gripe seems is the very first link. Too many "stories" (Pardew to be sacked, season tickets etc) don't start of with "Something happens", they start of with "Nothings happened" > People gossip > Paper gets to hear gossip and "covers" it.

 

I expect rumours / gossip / guesses / total bull**** on a fans forum and take anything I read on here with a pinch of salt untill backed up with facts. But I expect more than that from a NEWSpaper that charges for it's content (ok I know online it's free but the paper version is equally as bad for this). And that is a gripe at written media generally, not just the Echo

[Danny]

It becomes self fueling then and a snowball effect ensues. Someone reads a rumour on a site, they talk about it, the Echo report this chatter, someone sees it in the Echo and they talk about it and post it on another site, the Echo sees this and passes comment and on and on...

 

As for using opinions of the readership it is nearly as bad as Sky and BBC news using viewers comments in news items and then using the views section as a news story itself.

 

Why does the Echo continue to use the unelected voice of the fans like the Saints Trust and SISA - a tiny % of the fanbase. I find it hard to believe their representative even consult their small memberbase on views before providing quotes. Let alone the voice of all Saints fans.

 

The Echo today used quotes from one Saints fan who happened to be in the SISA as the foundation to nearly an entire article. That isn't "news". That is the opinion of an opinionated fan bloated out to make a story.

 

I'm as you can see an opinionated fan. You wouldn't use my views as the basis of a story would you? (awaits tomorrow's Echo headline )

 

If you don't like the opinions of the fans printed in the paper, get in touch. Those people are quoted as they are happy to give their views - simple as that.

 

There's nothing stopping you (or anyone else) calling the sports desk (023 8042 4515) and offering yourself as a fan who is happy to be named and quoted in stories about Saints. Please, do it. The more people who are happy to be quoted, the better.

 

The media at large uses comments/submitted pictures to interact with their audience - and the audience enjoy it, hence the success of things like the snow pictures on the BBC or phone-ins on Talk Sport - or the letter pages in every single newspaper in the UK.

[Matthew Le God]

If you don't like the opinions of the fans printed in the paper, get in touch. Those people are quoted as they are happy to give their views - simple as that.

 

There's nothing stopping you (or anyone else) calling the sports desk (023 8042 4515) and offering yourself as a fan who is happy to be named and quoted in stories about Saints. Please, do it. The more people who are happy to be quoted, the better.

 

The media at large uses comments/submitted pictures to interact with their audience - and the audience enjoy it, hence the success of things like the snow pictures on the BBC or phone-ins on Talk Sport - or the letter pages in every single newspaper in the UK.

 

Do those from SISA and the Saints Trust phone in each time or do you contact them first?

 

Surely the Echo contact them, as you know what the subject of the story you want to run is and when you need quotes.

 

What about adding people from this forum to your list of people you contact for views rather than just the small fan groups? Then use an opinion for and against from this forum to give a balanced viewpoint.

 

Would that be feasible?

Edited 26 May, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[trousers]

So, did we buy an oil rig in 2007 or what?

[Danny]

Fair point, things are different now than they were in the old days, with more immediate access to news etc.

 

But whilst I appreciate your chain and your where you enter it analogy my biggest gripe seems is the very first link. Too many "stories" (Pardew to be sacked, season tickets etc) don't start of with "Something happens", they start of with "Nothings happened" > People gossip > Paper gets to hear gossip and "covers" it.

 

I expect rumours / gossip / guesses / total bull**** on a fans forum and take anything I read on here with a pinch of salt untill backed up with facts. But I expect more than that from a NEWSpaper that charges for it's content (ok I know online it's free but the paper version is equally as bad for this). And that is a gripe at written media generally, not just the Echo

 

That's fair enough, but it is not always possible to say where something has come from for various reasons.

 

There's a story at I did at my old paper involving some information I had from a public sector organisation making some cuts, which I'll bore you with in the pub sometime which is a fairly good example of this.

 

Of course, that's not to say that is always the case as I can't speak for all media across the nation (a lot of stuff is just a complete flyer and they are usually the completely left-of-field things), but just because something doesn't happen doesn't mean it was a lie/made-up.

 

Right, I REALLY have to do some work now!

[Danny]

Do those from SISA and the Saints Trust phone in each time or do you contact them first?

 

Surely the Echo contact them, as you know what the subject of the story you want to run is and when you need quotes.

 

What about adding people from this forum to your list of people you contact for views rather than just the small fan groups? Then use an opinion for and against from this forum to give a balanced viewpoint.

 

Would that be feasible?

 

They are contacted because they are happy to speak and give their opinions. We have their details, they are happy to speak and do so in a seemingly informed and coherent manner. Sometimes they do just call up of their own volition, but usually we contact them.

 

If people from this forum want to provide contact telephone numbers then there is no reason why they wouldn't be used - just ask Steve Grant. I bet he hates the fact I gave his number to all the sports reporters! It would have to be phone numbers though as email/forums take too long.

[The9]

I stand corrected.

 

It appears we CAN string out the No Season Ticket News thread, albeit with the assistance of Echo staff and an exchange of views about newsworthiness.

 

Go us ! Can't wait til SaintsWeb 2.0 gives me the chance to disappear up my own one...

[Saint_clark]

So, did we buy an oil rig in 2007 or what?

 

That was f*cking odd. What actually happened there?

[markr27]

The online system is down at the moment by the way for "updating"... perhaps an announcement is due next week?

[S-Clarke]

The online system is down at the moment by the way for "updating"... perhaps an announcement is due next week?

 

good spot, prior to previous season ticket annoucements the ticket system has always been taken offline for a little bit.

[Saint_clark]

Updating = moving the away fans + changing where you can buy tickets?

[GenevaSaint]

Updating = moving the away fans + changing where you can buy tickets?

 

Away fan move is not happening anymore, was in the news a week or two ago.

[stmusicdude]

will be early next week

[The Kraken]

Do those from SISA and the Saints Trust phone in each time or do you contact them first?

 

Surely the Echo contact them, as you know what the subject of the story you want to run is and when you need quotes.

 

What about adding people from this forum to your list of people you contact for views rather than just the small fan groups? Then use an opinion for and against from this forum to give a balanced viewpoint.

 

Would that be feasible?

 

They are contacted because they are happy to speak and give their opinions. We have their details, they are happy to speak and do so in a seemingly informed and coherent manner. Sometimes they do just call up of their own volition, but usually we contact them.

 

If people from this forum want to provide contact telephone numbers then there is no reason why they wouldn't be used - just ask Steve Grant. I bet he hates the fact I gave his number to all the sports reporters! It would have to be phone numbers though as email/forums take too long.

 

Do you accept that SISA and the Saints Trust are defunct organisations that only exist for the purposes of their spokespersons getting their name in the news? I have no problem with the likes of Illingsworth et al giving their own personal opinions, but when the Echo dress its up in headlines as "fans' chief" Perry McMillan of SISA, Saints Trust chairman etc the Echo are complicit in providing a false impression that they are speaking on behalf of a significant cross-section of fans rather than giving a personal opinion. In essence its lazy journalism, looking for a quick quote to add to an article rather than going the extra mile to actually find out what a cross-section of fans do think.

 

There are many, many avenues you could use for providing quotes on any particular topic; this site is just one of them. Yet it is always one of O'Callaghan, McMillian, Illingsworth and now McFeat who claim to speak for all their members, yet in essence only speak for themselves.

 

I understand why the Echo do it, as it gives credibilty to a person's view by having a (moribund) organisation associated to the name. But as these organisations are dead, closed shops, it is a duplicitious approach to take by a newspaper.

[Neil]

Momentum is a strange thing in football, and Football Clubs. It can be hard to build and much easier to lose. I'm not saying that a slight delay is disastrous but I wouldn't want to wait much longer.

 

I hope to hear something over the weekend or at the start of next week, now that the Halo stuff has been sorted.

[ShirleySaint]

Away fan move is not happening anymore, was in the news a week or two ago.

 

In was in the Echo a week or two ago. That doesn't mean it was true. Please refer to parts of thread above about accuracy of Echo stories.

 

I think they are still talking to the police about it and until they get it sorted and know which seats are not available for Saints fans they won't be able to start selling the new season tickets.

 

Can anyone come up with a more plausible reason why there's a delay in putting the season tickets on sale?

[stevegrant]

Can anyone come up with a more plausible reason why there's a delay in putting the season tickets on sale?

Someone suggested to me that, because of the comfortable financial situation at the club, they didn't feel the need to release them early as every other club does as there's no pressing need for working capital over the summer. I'd disagree, personally, particularly as Cortese claims (and everything seems to back up the claim) they're not running it out of Markus Liebherr's pocket, but as a viable self-sufficient business.

[GenevaSaint]

In was in the Echo a week or two ago. That doesn't mean it was true. Please refer to parts of thread above about accuracy of Echo stories.

 

I was sure there was something on the O/S or in Cortese's statement that confirmed this?

 

Anyway, lets have a conspiracy theory rather than a plausible one. We're going to sign a big name player and there'll be a rush in ST sales as they're released the next day.

[benjii]

Someone suggested to me that, because of the comfortable financial situation at the club, they didn't feel the need to release them early as every other club does as there's no pressing need for working capital over the summer. I'd disagree, personally, particularly as Cortese claims (and everything seems to back up the claim) they're not running it out of Markus Liebherr's pocket, but as a viable self-sufficient business.

 

 

You can't go from a bankrupt entity being run on a shoestring to a company with top-class hospitality, a brand new training facility, the ability to recruit top people etc.. without money coming from somewhere. A slightly higher average gate (at cheaper prices) is not going to do the trick.

 

It seems to me the strategy is to establish a business capable of running according to sensible business norms when it reaches the trading environment capable of delivering that: the top division. In the meantime, I think the plan is for Markus to put the infrastructure in place to make that viable when we do get there.

[RonManager]

In the meantime, I think the plan is for Markus to put the infrastructure in place to make that viable when we do get there.

 

But not before he's -

voted for Sir Rickie for SSN Goal of the Season!!!

Text VOTE D to 84408

 

or Red button on Sky.

[benjii]

I'm voting for Dennis Wise

[Amesbury Saint]

Someone suggested to me that, because of the comfortable financial situation at the club, they didn't feel the need to release them early as every other club does as there's no pressing need for working capital over the summer. I'd disagree, personally, particularly as Cortese claims (and everything seems to back up the claim) they're not running it out of Markus Liebherr's pocket, but as a viable self-sufficient business.

 

people do not become billionaires by allowing their businesses to be comfortable.

 

 

I hope it because they are going to do something special / interesting rather than lazy

[dune]

It's occurred to me that the delay with Season Tickets could be because the club is being sold.

[Thedelldays]

people do not become billionaires by allowing their businesses to be comfortable.

 

 

I hope it because they are going to do something special / interesting rather than lazy

are you suggesting that a billionaire businessman is wrong..?

[Katalinic]

It's occurred to me that the delay with Season Tickets could be because the club is being sold.

 

Did you wake up shortly afterwards this occurrence?

[hamster]

Could it be that they are considering offering away fans TWO areas and crossing t's etc. hencethe delay?

 

I get the feeling that the club are really quite keen on The Northam being a 100% home end, and personally hope that this comes to fruition.