EDL - Young, British and Angry

[StuRomseySaint]

 

Personally, I have seen the best of both sides, got some great mates who are muslim and really well integrated to society, see themselves as English through and through, a lot of that comes from their parents. But there are many others who are happy to express their hatred of britain, Choudry, Abu Hamza are figure heads, but there are plenty in the schools who look up to them.

 

There are lots of Muslim members of the EDL, as there are black members, asians, etc etc...

 

Anyone who is proud to be English or to be a patron of England is welcomed into the EDL

 

 

It's a nationalist group, not a racist one, unfortunately that's what comes across on the TV because 1) Thats what the press want to report and 2) The group is infiltrated with football firms whose views might be a bit more, erm, racist shall we say.

[JRM]

There is no "Islamification" of the British state. F*cking morons.

 

what percentage of the British population was muslim 20 years ago?

 

what percentage is there today?

 

and what if this trend continues?????

 

the only butchers where i grew up were all halal........

 

and christmas at school wasn't called christmas...........

[Ponty]

Did you grow up in the Lebanon?

[View From The Top]

There is no "Islamification" of the British state. F*cking morons.

 

They are too ******* thick to understand.

 

They are also to ******* thick to understand that faith courts have existed in this country for centuries, including Islamic ones.

 

They amount of impact they have on the lives of those who don't practice those religions? 0%

 

The amount of judgements that supersede UK law? 0%.

[JRM]

Did you grow up in the Lebanon?

 

no.

 

but a part of north london notorious for having a loony left council.

 

to be fair it isn't just a muslim issue, there are more factors than that.

 

i remember it kicking off all the time between the turks and the kurds.

suppose an education like that teaches you a lot about international relations.

[JRM]

They are too ******* thick to understand.

 

They are also to ******* thick to understand that faith courts have existed in this country for centuries, including Islamic ones.

 

They amount of impact they have on the lives of those who don't practice those religions? 0%

 

The amount of judgements that supersede UK law? 0%.

 

but government makes policy to reflect the population, so it is significant.

would you like George Galloway to be your MP?

[Thedelldays]

did galloway get re-elected..?

[View From The Top]

but government makes policy to reflect the population, so it is significant.

 

What a pile of total and utter ******s.

[View From The Top]

did galloway get re-elected..?

 

No, Labour re-took it with a huge majority which rather blows his argument apart.

[chrisobee]

no.

 

but a part of north london notorious for having a loony left council.

 

to be fair it isn't just a muslim issue, there are more factors than that.

 

i remember it kicking off all the time between the turks and the kurds.

suppose an education like that teaches you a lot about international relations.

 

Haringey and "loonies" such as Bernie Grant would be my guess ?

[dune]

Haringey and "loonies" such as Bernie Grant would be my guess ?

 

My brother lives in Islington and the Socialist council are terrible according to him so thats my guess.

[View From The Top]

Haringey and "loonies" such as Bernie Grant would be my guess ?

 

Yep, I'd agree with that. Always kicking off along Green Lanes IIRC when I was up there.

[Thedelldays]

No, Labour re-took it with a huge majority which rather blows his argument apart.

galloway is an utter loon...probably dangerous with his ideals

 

thank god he is no longer on talksport..his show was not a phone-in..just a way of him expressing his mental thoughts

[manji]

EDL are Mossad financed agent provocateurs.

[dune]

EDL are Mossad financed agent provocateurs.

 

Have you any evidence of this?

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

There are lots of Muslim members of the EDL, as there are black members, asians, etc etc...

 

Anyone who is proud to be English or to be a patron of England is welcomed into the EDL

 

 

It's a nationalist group, not a racist one, unfortunately that's what comes across on the TV because 1) Thats what the press want to report and 2) The group is infiltrated with football firms whose views might be a bit more, erm, racist shall we say.

 

This is laughably doubtful

[Thedelldays]

This is laughably doubtful

there is...and that is a fact

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

there is...and that is a fact

 

Forgive me if I'm not swayed by your powerful viewpoint. I'll happily be proved wrong if someone can show me something a little more substantive.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

My brother lives in Islington and the Socialist council are terrible according to him so thats my guess.

 

It's all a matter of perception. A perefectly moderate council, of any persuasion, would appear terrible to both loony left wingers and rabid right wing facists.

[dune]

It's all a matter of perception. A perefectly moderate council, of any persuasion, would appear terrible to both loony left wingers and rabid right wing facists.

 

Or maybe the Labour run council is terrible.

[View From The Top]

Or maybe the Labour run council is terrible.

 

Amazing how many Tory councils went over the Labour at the elections though.

 

Truth is that far too many councils are poorly run, regardless of political colour.

[manji]

Have you any evidence of this?

No evidence but it is a common assumption. Heard it about a year ago.Really who are the biggest beneficiaries of all this anti-Muslim hysteria ? And waving Israeli flags forchrissakes !

[StuRomseySaint]

This is laughably doubtful

 

Actually, that is a FACT, and if you bothered to view the programme, you will have seen an interview with Abdul who was interviewed by the EDL.

 

EDL is not the BNP, it doesn't want England for the English, it wants England for anyone who wants to be English, regardless of birth.

 

Who is the main spokesman for the EDL???

 

I will give you a clue in his name..... Amit Singh ( yes I know he is not muslim, but still..... )

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Actually, that is a FACT, and if you bothered to view the programme, you will have seen an interview with Abdul who was interviewed by the EDL.

 

EDL is not the BNP, it doesn't want England for the English, it wants England for anyone who wants to be English, regardless of birth.

 

Who is the main spokesman for the EDL???

 

I will give you a clue in his name..... Amit Singh ( yes I know he is not muslim, but still..... )

 

You said there were loads of muslims who were members. Now I know that "loads" might be a bit subjective but one muslim called Abdul surely does not constitute loads. You then point out that the main spokesman is a sikh. Yes that supports the notion that loads of muslims are members, him being a sikh.

[StuRomseySaint]

You said there were loads of muslims who were members. Now I know that "loads" might be a bit subjective but one muslim called Abdul surely does not constitute loads. You then point out that the main spokesman is a sikh. Yes that supports the notion that loads of muslims are members, him being a sikh.

 

Loads as in a high number of people... be it a few hundred or whatever, maybe not in the percentage of members.

 

The point being that the EDL does not discriminate against Muslims in general, just the extreme muslims... even in the documentry, which was biased to show the EDL as racist, it clearly shows how 'Abdul' is loved by all members of the EDL... as are the other asian and black members.

 

The problem with the EDL now is that over the next few months it is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger... but without a doubt there will be trouble as well because people who enjoy a good scrap etc are going to attach themselves to the organisation.

 

I would not be surprised one bit if there are some quite serious race riots happening during the World Cup.

 

And the point about the sikh is simply showing that the EDL is not a racist organisation, but a nationalist one.

 

Even the yanks are wondering what the fook we are letting happen here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H99oNl_03YI

Edited 21 May, 2010 by StuRomseySaint

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Loads as in a high number of people... be it a few hundred or whatever, maybe not in the percentage of members.

 

The point being that the EDL does not discriminate against Muslims in general, just the extreme muslims... even in the documentry, which was biased to show the EDL as racist, it clearly shows how 'Abdul' is loved by all members of the EDL... as are the other asian and black members.

 

The problem with the EDL now is that over the next few months it is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger... but without a doubt there will be trouble as well because people who enjoy a good scrap etc are going to attach themselves to the organisation.

 

I would not be surprised one bit if there are some quite serious race riots happening during the World Cup.

 

And the point about the sikh is simply showing that the EDL is not a racist organisation, but a nationalist one.

 

Just watching it now, Abdul claims he was born a muslim but is no longer practicising. Just seen the bit where Singh says out loud that all muslims will burn in hell. Heard some monkey chants as well.

 

Look I'm sure that many going to EDL events aren't racist and don't hate all muslims but just from watching the first 10 mins you can see and hear plenty of racism and anti-muslim behaviour. I really can't see the point of the EDL. Just how is marching and singing football songs going to anything to stop islamic extremism? I did find it very ironic to see one placard being held up condemning the burkha with several goons in the background with caps and scarves over their faces.

[Chez]

Actually, that is a FACT, and if you bothered to view the programme, you will have seen an interview with Abdul who was interviewed by the EDL.

 

EDL is not the BNP, it doesn't want England for the English, it wants England for anyone who wants to be English, regardless of birth.

 

Who is the main spokesman for the EDL???

 

I will give you a clue in his name..... Amit Singh ( yes I know he is not muslim, but still..... )

 

Abdul admitted that although he was brought up as a muslim he certainly isn't a practising muslim. I therefore fail to see how that proves there are "lots of muslim members of the EDL". There certainly seemed to be more racist members than muslims but I concede that the documentary may not paint an accurate picture.

Edited 21 May, 2010 by Chez

[chrisobee]

I'm a member of EDL Southampton Division.

 

I bet that shocked you.

 

 

Well given you posted this on 18/9/09 on a thread specifically about the EDL no TBH.

 

"I'm a member... I bet that surprised you all."

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16703

 

That thread went round in never decreasing circles but at least most people on there realised just what the EDL was all about by the time it was closed. It was also full of statements, but no facts I can see, that the EDL was not racist, just anti Muslim extremists.

However, the EDL is closely affiliated with Casuals United, a group consisting mainly of ex football hooligans ( so the link with football is there but interesting they are ex football holligans- banned from football or it just became too tame ? ). They see themselves as the vanguard in a battle for the soul of Britain against extremist Islamist forces — the “enemy within” bent on imposing Sharia. A “ready-made army” against Muslim fundamentalists.

The "Casuals" attracted the support of BNP activists including Chris Renton who was actually the person who created the EDL website! However, even the BNP then distanced themselves from the EDL and no BNP member is allowed to join.

To cap it all the Southampton Division then deigned to use the Saints crest on A Facebook site, surprise, surprise the group could only be joined by "invitation" only.

As Eastleigh Soul Boy then stated:

 

I have just spoken to Mark Abraham (Community Officer) at the club. He is gravely concerned not just at the misuse of the crest but also the 'aligning' of groups such as this to the Club. He has already, earlier this week, had contact with the council about this group and moves are afoot to distance the club from them.

 

By that time the crest, rightly, had been removed.

No doubt there are some members of the EDL who can't see it for what it is but that's invariably the product of either complete stupidity or a closed mind. Either way the EDL has nothing to offer other than protests which are invariably aimed at provoking trouble and stirring up anti Muslim feeling be the Muslims extremist or not.

[Yeovil Saint]

How many of you grew up / have lived in a muslim dominated area?

 

If you did you might start to realise why some people have had enough are starting to stand up for themselves.

 

How many of you would feel comfortable sending your child to school knowing 70-80% of their classmates would be muslim and view your child as an outsider, in an area where your family have lived for years?

 

I went to Bevois Town First School in the late 70s which had a predominantly Asian intake (what's the area like now?). I grew up with a lot of Muslim, Hindu and Sikh friends and I'm not scared of Muslims like the EDL kids seem to be. Most EDL supporters seem to be those that grew up in predominantly white areas close to areas with lots of Muslims but not close enough to actually know them.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Or maybe the Labour run council is terrible.

 

Which might well be the view of a right wing fascist.

[dune]

Which might well be the view of a right wing fascist.

 

The fascists of the future will call themselves anti fascists - Winston Churchill

[dune]

The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist - Winston Churchill.

 

Britain has the longest period of detention without charge in the free world. The 28 days we allow the police to hold suspects without charging them is more than twice the length of the next longest common law country – Australia’s 12 days. In the last decade under Labour, the length of pre-charge detention has increased at a phenomenal rate. It was only in 2000 that the maximum period of detention for terrorist suspects was extended to seven days by the Terrorism Act. This was doubled to 14 days by the Criminal Justice Act of three years later. In the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings, Tony Blair made it clear that he wanted to extend detention without charge up to a staggering 90 days. Amendments to the Terrorism Act 2006 reduced this to 28 days.

 

The last Labour government was the closest thing to a fascist dictatorship this country has ever seen, but because it was Socialist it was acceptable to the lefties.

[View From The Top]

The last Labour government was the closest thing to a fascist dictatorship this country has ever seen

 

Right up your street then Stanley.

 

We all know how you love your fascism, especially of the Nazi variety.

[dune]

Right up your street then Stanley.

 

We all know how you love your fascism, especially of the Nazi variety.

 

So why do ESB and co support Labour?

 

Does this not make them hypocritical and back up Churchills prophesy that the fascists of the future will be anti fascists?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist - Winston Churchill.

 

Britain has the longest period of detention without charge in the free world. The 28 days we allow the police to hold suspects without charging them is more than twice the length of the next longest common law country – Australia’s 12 days. In the last decade under Labour, the length of pre-charge detention has increased at a phenomenal rate. It was only in 2000 that the maximum period of detention for terrorist suspects was extended to seven days by the Terrorism Act. This was doubled to 14 days by the Criminal Justice Act of three years later. In the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings, Tony Blair made it clear that he wanted to extend detention without charge up to a staggering 90 days. Amendments to the Terrorism Act 2006 reduced this to 28 days.

 

The last Labour government was the closest thing to a fascist dictatorship this country has ever seen, but because it was Socialist it was acceptable to the lefties.

 

Are you then saying that anyone who is suspected of promoting or causing a Terrorist Act should not be detained immediately? Which might mean without questioning, to prevent any such act from taking place, until they either have no case against them (released) or proven and charged?

 

Remembering, of course, that the Conservative Party are BIG on Law & Order.

 

All political extremes, some which are poles apart, come close to circling the square. The problem of terrorism and extreme Islam wanting to run the country does need to be addressed. The government need to listen. I'm sure that all level headed people realise that fighting on the streets is not going to heal the problem. In fact it will marginalise the innocents who will seek the support of either right wing fascists groups or extreme Islamic group (which by their own doctrine are fascist in my view).

 

I saw the programme and I have also watched Stu's link on Youtube. They are a frightening prospect but the solution has to come from not just the Government but all parties.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

So why do ESB and co support Labour?

 

Does this not make them hypocritical and back up Churchills prophesy that the fascists of the future will be anti fascists?

 

I support the Labour party because they match, most closely, my Christian values and cater more for the working man and the socially disadvantaged. That doesn't necessarily mean that I swallow every thing that they do in full agreement.

[dune]

Are you then saying that anyone who is suspected of promoting or causing a Terrorist Act should not be detained immediately? Which might mean without questioning, to prevent any such act from taking place, until they either have no case against them (released) or proven and charged?

 

Remembering, of course, that the Conservative Party are BIG on Law & Order.

 

All political extremes, some which are poles apart, come close to circling the square. The problem of terrorism and extreme Islam wanting to run the country does need to be addressed. The government need to listen. I'm sure that all level headed people realise that fighting on the streets is not going to heal the problem. In fact it will marginalise the innocents who will seek the support of either right wing fascists groups or extreme Islamic group (which by their own doctrine are fascist in my view).

 

I saw the programme and I have also watched Stu's link on Youtube. They are a frightening prospect but the solution has to come from not just the Government but all parties.

 

The fact is that the Socialist Blair government imposed the longest period of detention without charge in the free world. Other countries get by without such medieval authoritarian practices.

 

I agree about the Islamic groups being "fascist" - so please explain why UAF do not march against them, but choose to march with them. And also please explain why trades unions such as Unite (Labours largest donor) financially support UAF given this.

[dune]

I support the Labour party because they match, most closely, my Christian values and cater more for the working man and the socially disadvantaged. That doesn't necessarily mean that I swallow every thing that they do in full agreement.

 

How is a party that has sadled you and your children with a mountain of debt the party of the working man? It's complete and utter nonsense to think like this. The Conservatives are the party of the working man because they support business and business provide jobs. Labour is the party of the bone idle who choose a life on benefits.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

 

The last Labour government was the closest thing to a fascist dictatorship this country has ever seen, but because it was Socialist it was acceptable to the lefties.

 

I guess if they were more acceptable they might have won a few more seats.

 

Anyone who thinks Tony Blair is a socialist needs to go and read politics for dummies.

[solentstars]

How is a party that has sadled you and your children with a mountain of debt the party of the working man? It's complete and utter nonsense to think like this. The Conservatives are the party of the working man because they support business and business provide jobs. Labour is the party of the bone idle who choose a life on benefits.

i think you will find it was the bankers of the world who saddled everybody with their debts and bail out and started in wall street .

i did not vote labour this election but realise threw their history they have helped alot of working people .

[EastleighSoulBoy]

The fact is that the Socialist Blair government imposed the longest period of detention without charge in the free world. Other countries get by without such medieval authoritarian practices.

 

I agree about the Islamic groups being "fascist" - so please explain why UAF do not march against them, but choose to march with them. And also please explain why trades unions such as Unite (Labours largest donor) financially support UAF given this.

 

I don't claim to know, let alone understand why the UAF clearly contradict the policy of united against fascism. Fascists themselves, like you, would not be wrong in asking if there is a 'good' and 'bad' style of fascism.

 

I think they have maybe chosen the wrong name for the group? As I say, I really don't know.

 

How is a party that has sadled you and your children with a mountain of debt the party of the working man? It's complete and utter nonsense to think like this. The Conservatives are the party of the working man because they support business and business provide jobs. Labour is the party of the bone idle who choose a life on benefits.

 

Oh! so I had better contrive to lose my job then, to be a true labour voter.

Funny how some of those on that EDL march are jobless and acting like Fascist thugs, giving Nazi salutes etc.

 

The Conservatives are not for the working man. Yes, inadvertently, they help the working man by promoting business. But if they are in for long enough, as I suspect they will be, we will see the working man falling further behind in quality of life and working conditions, while the owners of big businesses stuff their mattresses and tax haven bank accounts.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I guess if they were more acceptable they might have won a few more seats.

 

Anyone who thinks Tony Blair is a socialist needs to go and read politics for dummies.

 

Which is exactly why so many disaffected Labour voters who lived in Tory/Lib marginals voted Lib.

 

Blair let us down in many ways.

[Yeovil Saint]

Britain has the longest period of detention without charge in the free world. The 28 days we allow the police to hold suspects without charging them is more than twice the length of the next longest common law country – Australia’s 12 days. In the last decade under Labour, the length of pre-charge detention has increased at a phenomenal rate. It was only in 2000 that the maximum period of detention for terrorist suspects was extended to seven days by the Terrorism Act. This was doubled to 14 days by the Criminal Justice Act of three years later. In the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings, Tony Blair made it clear that he wanted to extend detention without charge up to a staggering 90 days. Amendments to the Terrorism Act 2006 reduced this to 28 days.

 

Dune, you need to remember that your boys in the Tory party supported the increase from 7 to 14 days and the increase from 14 to 28 days. They would have supported the increase to 90 days if they hadn't realised that enough Labour MPs were being honourable enough to rebel against it. Only eight Tory MPs had enough balls to realise the cost to our freedom.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I guess if they were more acceptable they might have won a few more seats.

 

Anyone who thinks Tony Blair is a socialist needs to go and read politics for dummies.

 

you are wasting your time explaining that to Stanley i'm afraid. Being a thick white power racist nazi boy he is beyond help.