shurlock Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 Your own quote says Balls worked for Gordon Brown, not Tony Blair. He wasn't in a position to influence the outcome of the debate on the war. You might as well argue that the Tories were complicit in the war too, since they voted for it - something that Balls and E. Milliband couldn't do. Like the Tories and many other Labour MPs, they might have believed the 'lies' but they were in no position of power. And, as I said before, Balls was a Civil Servant at the time and, therefore, apolitical. It is quite apparent to me that you don't understand how government, cabinet etc. works. Balls/E. Miliband were special advisors - as special advisors, they work in an unashamedly political and partisan capacity. While employed as civil servants, different rules apply to them - they were certainly not bog-standard civil servants as you imply - they would have been in the engine room of the party machine all the time. See what happened to Damian McBride - once he started overstepping the mark as a civil servant and doing Brown's political bidding, he was converted to a special advisor - to release him from the normal protocols of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 Robin Cook resigned over the Iraq war, but Short backed it and voted for it. She only became all moral and against it once it was obvious Blair was going to sack her. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2863277.stm yep Mr D Milliband voted for it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 yep Mr D Milliband voted for it.. It is E Miliband we're talking about. I'll allow you some little ground - Ed Balls was just on the news saying, had he been an MP at the time, he would have voted for the war on the available evidence. Many MPs voted for the war on the available eidence - MPs of all political persuasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 It is E Miliband we're talking about. I'll allow you some little ground - Ed Balls was just on the news saying, had he been an MP at the time, he would have voted for the war on the available evidence. Many MPs voted for the war on the available eidence - MPs of all political persuasions. no..you are on about E Milliband...I was not..hence my link to which this convo started http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=153477702 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 no..you are on about E Milliband...I was not..hence my link to which this convo started http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=153477702 Your link quotes Ed Balls and David Miliband. David Miliband is quoted as saying it was time to move on. I'm not quite sure how that can be construed as 'slime'. I'm not defending him at all but he's no more slimy than politicians from other parties looking to move on. Lots of Tories say it's time to move on when the question of Thatcher is raised. But I'm comfortable that, so far, my choice (E Miliband) wasn't in a position of power or influence at the time. Yes maybe he should have resigned his party membership, as I did, but it was easier for me to do so - it didn't affect my career. Somebody asked you why you didn't resign from your career on principle if you thought the war was so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 BTF - they were not outspoken because they probably felt their careers would be harmed. I hate career politicians of all colours. Robin Cook was one of the good guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 [quote Somebody asked you why you didn't resign from your career on principle if you thought the war was so wrong. Have to say BTF I think that is an outrageous thing to say; especially to somebody who ultimately would put their life on the line on behalf of your nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 [quote Somebody asked you why you didn't resign from your career on principle if you thought the war was so wrong. Have to say BTF I think that is an outrageous thing to say; especially to somebody who ultimately would put their life on the line on behalf of your nation. I didn't ask him the question - it was another poster. Happy to receive your apology when you have a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 By repeating the question you were indeed asking it to be answered. I think you should be apologising to DD. As I am sure you are aware the way the military works is you cannot question orders other wise the whole system breaksdown. You should be supportive of the people who put their lives on the line but ask your questions of those that make the decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 May, 2010 Share Posted 22 May, 2010 By repeating the question you were indeed asking it to be answered. I think you should be apologising to DD. As I am sure you are aware the way the military works is you cannot question orders other wise the whole system breaksdown. You should be supportive of the people who put their lives on the line but ask your questions of those that make the decisions. Rubbish. The debate had moved to resignation as a matter of principle. I had said, quite truthfully, that I resigned from the Labour Party as a matter of principle but then my career wasn't on the line and I could afford to do so. I simply reiterated what someone else had said as an illustration of how difficult it can be to abide by principles when a career is at stake. I have family in the forces so don't talk to me about being supportive of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 23 May, 2010 Share Posted 23 May, 2010 I must have picked the the thread half way through BTF so I apologise if I caused offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 May, 2010 Share Posted 23 May, 2010 (edited) By repeating the question you were indeed asking it to be answered. I think you should be apologising to DD. As I am sure you are aware the way the military works is you cannot question orders other wise the whole system breaksdown. You should be supportive of the people who put their lives on the line but ask your questions of those that make the decisions. I asked the question. Actually I think killing people for a cause you dont believe in is infinitely worse than going along with a political decision you cant change. Like the Sun and Mail, a lot of finger pointing and hypocrisy on this thread. http://www.wri-irg.org/node/5877 Edited 23 May, 2010 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 May, 2010 Share Posted 24 May, 2010 Interesting to see that Ed Miliband has way more nominations than the other declared candidates put together and has more than the required 33 nominations to be able to stand officially. Both Southampton MPs have nominated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 24 May, 2010 Share Posted 24 May, 2010 Interesting to see that Ed Miliband has way more nominations than the other declared candidates put together and has more than the required 33 nominations to be able to stand officially. Both Southampton MPs have nominated him. I think a lot of the Labour party realise they need to distant themselves from the right wing 'New Labour'/Tories and go to the left, especially after how well the Lib Dems came across just before the election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 24 May, 2010 Share Posted 24 May, 2010 I like the cut of his jibb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 May, 2010 Share Posted 24 May, 2010 Would love to see Labour lurch back towards the left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 25 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 25 May, 2010 Would love to see Labour lurch back towards the left... Labour doesn't need to change its position at all really. Now that Clegg and co are fully signed up members of the Tory agenda I think there'll be plenty of LDs who will sign up to New New Labour under whichever Miliband! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 25 May, 2010 Share Posted 25 May, 2010 Two interesting climb-downs yesterday, I thought. Vince Cable (I had a lot of respect for him - not any more) wriggling very uncomfortably when interviewed by Paxman last night about his 'change of heart' about cuts. David Chameleon bowing to pressure re the 1922 Committee. Is the CleggOn love-in struggling already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 25 May, 2010 Share Posted 25 May, 2010 I asked the question. Actually I think killing people for a cause you dont believe in is infinitely worse than going along with a political decision you cant change. Like the Sun and Mail, a lot of finger pointing and hypocrisy on this thread. http://www.wri-irg.org/node/5877 It is a fair point and that is why you are not in the forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 25 May, 2010 Share Posted 25 May, 2010 Update: David Miliband now officially running with 36 nominations so far and Ed Miliband now has 39 nominations. They only need 33 nominations to be an official candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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