We may have underestimated George Osborne

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Hense my use of the word 'most'. It is a split issue, because some liberals value freedom of the human activity over an animal's right not to be tortured to death. Most liberals don't.

 

 

 

I didn't realise that the purpose of a horse race was to torture and kill horses. Or is the intention of fox hunting to have a race (and not to kill and torture)?

 

A fox is not tortured to death. Another person who falls into the trap of not bothering to see a fox hunt and meet the people involved before making passionate statements about something they are not qualified to talk about.

[Jonnyboy]

I was watching Politics weekly last night and Michael Portillo revealed that the intricate details of the deal offered to the Liberals had been worked out, by George, weeks ago. If this is true then I take back a lot of my criticism, although I still don't like him, because the way the Liberals have been got on board and a situation created that should last 5 years is brave and nothing short of genious. If the coalition was weak it would only have lasted 2 years tops and that would be electoral suicide, but George has given the Liberals fair concessions and has knitted them into the cabinet. Not only this but when 5 years is up the Liberals are going to be ****ed making it a Tory v Labour race again, but I envisage that due to the closely tied nature of the coalition the country will have pulled through the worst in 5 years meaning that this shaky start could well be the beggining of another Conservative generation of power.

 

he's still got sneer which says taste my horsewhip peasants

[Fuengirola Saint]

A fox is not tortured to death. Another person who falls into the trap of not bothering to see a fox hunt and meet the people involved before making passionate statements about something they are not qualified to talk about.

 

The fox is killed for pleasure and in my opinion that makes the people who do it abhorrent, and i would love to see them hunted like the fox and then ask them if it is such a good "sport"

[Thedelldays]

The fox is killed for pleasure and in my opinion that makes the people who do it abhorrent, and i would love to see them hunted like the fox and then ask them if it is such a good "sport"

I would like to see you with a 7 stone irish man on your back, told to run 3 miles whilst being whipped and forced to jump 6ft fences that meant if you landed awkwardly you would break your neck and have to be "destroyed"...all in the name of "entertainment"

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The fox is killed for pleasure and in my opinion that makes the people who do it abhorrent, and i would love to see them hunted like the fox and then ask them if it is such a good "sport"

 

As I expected. As with others on the left you are motivated by chippyness and hatred. I bet they love you in Spain when you go about telling them their bull fighting is so wrong. Actually I suspect you rarely leave the confines of your little world to sample the culture that surrounds you. Broaden your mind mate and be free.

[Fuengirola Saint]

I would like to see you with a 7 stone irish man on your back, told to run 3 miles whilst being whipped and forced to jump 6ft fences that meant if you landed awkwardly you would break your neck and have to be "destroyed"...all in the name of "entertainment"

 

Who said that i agreed with horse racing then? I don't remember mentioning anything about it, and before any idiot says "ooh bullfighting is cruel as well" i am vehemently opposed to that as well

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I am sure you are a good bloke Fuelgirola Saint but I just cannot understand why you and others have to judge everybody and what they do? If you do not like something then do not do it but why are you so 'vehemently opposed' to something that you really have no understanding of. Read Hemingway and at least educate yourself before jumping to such strong views.

[Fuengirola Saint]

I am sure you are a good bloke Fuelgirola Saint but I just cannot understand why you and others have to judge everybody and what they do? If you do not like something then do not do it but why are you so 'vehemently opposed' to something that you really have no understanding of. Read Hemingway and at least educate yourself before jumping to such strong views.

 

1, you will not convince me that killing for fun is ok.

2, I actually live in Málaga Capital not some English ghetto, i chose the user name when living in Fuengirola,espero que esta ayudes

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I am not trying to persuade you that killing for fun as you crudely put it is acceptable. I just find it strange that you are so interested in what other people do when in reality it has no impact what so ever in your life. This is a common theme of the left, this instinct to interfere and to meddle.

[bridge too far]

I am not trying to persuade you that killing for fun as you crudely put it is acceptable. I just find it strange that you are so interested in what other people do when in reality it has no impact what so ever in your life. This is a common theme of the left, this instinct to interfere and to meddle.

 

Crikey mate - if we all adopted your attitude, we'd still have kids working up chimneys and down the mines!

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Crikey mate - if we all adopted your attitude, we'd still have kids working up chimneys and down the mines!

 

I think there is a big gap between animals and humans. If you eat meat then so do you.

[bridge too far]

I think there is a big gap between animals and humans. If you eat meat then so do you.

 

I don't each much meat but that's for health rather than ethical reasons. However, I'm safe in the knowledge that the meat I do eat has been killed as humanely as possible and not been harried, chased or bitten to death.

 

My point (as you well know) was that if everyone only ever sat back and didn't speak out against things they found objectionable, nothing would ever change.

 

But that's the true meaning of the word 'conservative', isn't it?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

People involved with livestock do not see animals in the same way as you might because you have become detached from the reality of slaughter. I think you devalue the cause of liberating people from apartheid, the advances of gay rights, slavery etc by putting a ban on fox hunting on the same level.

[bridge too far]

I just think that humane slaughter for food is OK - inhumane slaughter in the name of sport is just plain wrong.

 

In sport, both sides in the competition are supposed to enjoy the contest. I'm not sure foxes find that to be the case.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Foxes are vermin, not some cuddly Basil Brush like pet.

[Thedelldays]

killing for fun is bad...kinng to fill my face is OK though

[View From The Top]

Foxes are vermin, not some cuddly Basil Brush like pet.

 

The get the lamps out and shoot them. I've done it a few times myself over the years. Humane culling is not an issue.

 

Hunting foxes says a lot about the people who believe ripping an animal apart with dogs is "cultural".

[Thedelldays]

 

The get the lamps out and shoot them. I've done it a few times myself over the years. Humane culling is not an issue.

 

Hunting foxes says a lot about the people who believe ripping an animal apart with dogs is "cultural".

It may be. So is sticking a sword I to a bull.

 

Odd, eh?

[bridge too far]

It may be. So is sticking a sword I to a bull.

 

Odd, eh?

 

And in both cases, fancy dress is imperative.

[Fuengirola Saint]

killing for fun is bad...kinng to fill my face is OK though

 

So tell me, you think its ok to kill for fun?

[Johnny Bognor]

So tell me, you think its ok to kill for fun?

 

 

I'm sure you would find it fun to run amok with a machine gun at the next tory party conference.

[bridge too far]

I'm sure you would find it fun to run amok with a machine gun at the next tory party conference.

 

Silly response JB - not up to your usual standard at all :shock:

[dune]

I was chatting to my local master of the hunt at the open day last year and asked him how they hunted with the golden eagle. He replied "we don't" and winked.

[dune]

So tell me, you think its ok to kill for fun?

 

When I was at school I wrote an essay on the reasons for foxhunting.

 

The reason hunting is the most humane method of controlling foxes (vermin) is because the fox either lives or it dies.

 

With shooting a fox can be maimed and can limp off to die a slow and painful death. Snaring can again lead to a slow death. Gassing is the most humane method of the 3, but again it's not as fast a death as hunting.

 

The city folk on here haven't got a clue.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The get the lamps out and shoot them. I've done it a few times myself over the years. Humane culling is not an issue.

 

Hunting foxes says a lot about the people who believe ripping an animal apart with dogs is "cultural".

 

What sort of gun did you use VFT?

[Johnny Bognor]

Silly response JB - not up to your usual standard at all :shock:

 

 

Fair enough, I was being a bit silly

 

I don't have a strong opinion on the fox hunting issue either way (probably against on the basis that I don't want to see animals suffer). At the time of the ban, I was against it purely because there were more important issues to deal with. Now the ban is here, I would be against changing it on the basis that there are even more more important issues to deal with.

Edited 15 May, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Fair enough, I was being a bit silly

 

I don't have a strong opinion on the fox hunting issue either way (probably against on the basis that I don't want to see animals suffer). At the time of the ban, I was against it purely because there were more important issues to deal with. Now the ban is here, I would be against changing it on the basis that there are even more more important issues to deal with.

 

It is not about what you think it is about whether people should enforce their moral believesonto other people. I say no and no again. One day somebody will decide they do not like something that you do. It is about the right to choose to live your life how you like.

[bridge too far]

It is not about what you think it is about whether people should enforce their moral believesonto other people. I say no and no again. One day somebody will decide they do not like something that you do. It is about the right to choose to live your life how you like.

 

I haven't seen that anyone is ENFORCING their moral beliefs on anyone else here.

 

But everybody is entitled to express their views on issues - and some people feel so strongly about some issues that they try to persuade others to their views. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Total belief in 'living your life as you please'? That way lies anarchy IMO.

[View From The Top]

What sort of gun did you use VFT?

 

.22 rifles in the main but some higher calibre.

[badgerx16]

When I was at school I wrote an essay on the reasons for foxhunting.

 

The reason hunting is the most humane method of controlling foxes (vermin) is because the fox either lives or it dies.

 

With shooting a fox can be maimed and can limp off to die a slow and painful death. Snaring can again lead to a slow death. Gassing is the most humane method of the 3, but again it's not as fast a death as hunting.

 

The city folk on here haven't got a clue.

And some of us country folk on here have, and still believe that hunting foxes with a pack of hounds is barbaric.:cool:

[View From The Top]

It may be. So is sticking a sword I to a bull.

 

Odd, eh?

 

So is circumcising young girls in certain parts of sub-Saharan Africa which has been brought over here.

 

Doesn't make it right.

[View From The Top]

And some of us country folk on here have, and still believe that hunting foxes with a pack of hounds is barbaric.:cool:

 

+1.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I haven't seen that anyone is ENFORCING their moral beliefs on anyone else here.

 

But everybody is entitled to express their views on issues - and some people feel so strongly about some issues that they try to persuade others to their views. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Total belief in 'living your life as you please'? That way lies anarchy IMO.

 

Do you think BTF that if you grew up with a family that hunted and all the people around you hunted and much of your everyday life revolved around hunting you would feel that people who are totally disconnected from the hunting scene have the right to tell you that you and your community they are barbaric? Speaking personally, although I have hunted since childhood I have more knowledge, understanding and respect for the natural world around me than any of you lot. Death in this world is a daily experience and so inevitably I have a different attitude to it.

[John B]

And some of us country folk on here have, and still believe that hunting foxes with a pack of hounds is barbaric.:cool:

 

and so do the RSPCA

[dune]

Rupert Lowe and Jeff Stelling are friends that used to go beagling together. Just thought i'd throw that in is as a little fact.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

.22 rifles in the main but some higher calibre.

 

Then that really is barbaric. You are not going to kill a fox with a .22 unless you are within twenty-thirty yards. Ask yourself why it is illigal to shoot a deer with a .22?

[bridge too far]

Do you think BTF that if you grew up with a family that hunted and all the people around you hunted and much of your everyday life revolved around hunting you would feel that people who are totally disconnected from the hunting scene have the right to tell you that you and your community they are barbaric? Speaking personally, although I have hunted since childhood I have more knowledge, understanding and respect for the natural world around me than any of you lot. Death in this world is a daily experience and so inevitably I have a different attitude to it.

 

Of course it is, nobody would say otherwise. The argument is whether it is cruel to chase down and kill animals FOR SPORT.

 

You make a lot of assumptions about other people who have views that are diametrically opposed to yours without knowing those people.

 

And sometimes people grow up in communities with values they find abhorrent and they say so.

[View From The Top]

Then that really is barbaric. You are not going to kill a fox with a .22 unless you are within twenty-thirty yards. Ask yourself why it is illigal to shoot a deer with a .22?

 

Boll*cks.

 

Lamping means you are damn close which is the whole point.

 

I've never missed and never had one bolt away injured (not done it for years mind).

 

No one in their right mind would attempt to take down a deer with a .22 so don't come that and act all high and mighty.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Boll*cks.

 

Lamping means you are damn close which is the whole point.

 

I've never missed and never had one bolt away injured (not done it for years mind).

 

No one in their right mind would attempt to take down a deer with a .22 so don't come that and act all high and mighty.

 

Well I go lamping twenty or thirty times a year and would never use a .22 for foxes. I can only base this on my own experience. Your motor must have a very quiet engine to get that close to a fox.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Of course it is, nobody would say otherwise. The argument is whether it is cruel to chase down and kill animals FOR SPORT.

 

You make a lot of assumptions about other people who have views that are diametrically opposed to yours without knowing those people.

 

And sometimes people grow up in communities with values they find abhorrent and they say so.

 

It is far more complex than that.

 

My assumptions are based on watching people like Simon King and Bill Oddie who often show a naivety in their subject. If you commute to the countryside to look at widlife you will know less than people who live and work in the countryside.

 

Those people are actually quite rare. A lot of the people who hunt are pretty awful but in the main they are not. These are tight knit communities and have rights as well, you have to understand it is a way of life. It is part of your identity and probably why so many turned up to protest in the big CA marches. Whay upsets me is that they are portrayed as not being compassionate.

[dune]

Well I go lamping twenty or thirty times a year and would never use a .22 for foxes. I can only base this on my own experience. Your motor must have a very quiet engine to get that close to a fox.

 

VFTT is always right so i'd quit if I were you.

[View From The Top]

Well I go lamping twenty or thirty times a year and would never use a .22 for foxes. I can only base this on my own experience. Your motor must have a very quiet engine to get that close to a fox.

 

We used to set up in a field and wait. Get a kill and move on. Repeat until to tired and go home.

 

Sometimes we'd get a kill and othertimes nowt.

 

Out of interest what do you use? As I've said, not done it for many a moon. I used to really enjoy it.

[View From The Top]

VFTT is always right so i'd quit if I were you.

 

I thought you would have prefered gassing.

[dune]

I thought you would have prefered gassing.

 

No, hunting is the most humane method of controlling foxes. I hope he comes back because it's an important tradition is places such as Leics. They even play the post horn gallop at LCFC.

[View From The Top]

It is far more complex than that.

 

My assumptions are based on watching people like Simon King and Bill Oddie who often show a naivety in their subject. If you commute to the countryside to look at widlife you will know less than people who live and work in the countryside.

 

Those people are actually quite rare. A lot of the people who hunt are pretty awful but in the main they are not. These are tight knit communities and have rights as well, you have to understand it is a way of life. It is part of your identity and probably why so many turned up to protest in the big CA marches. Whay upsets me is that they are portrayed as not being compassionate.

 

You clearly feel deeply on the subject which I respect you for and you clearly feel as if it is an assault on your personal freedom and I respect your feelings on that.

 

However, I disagree with hunting with hounds on principal and that's not going to change but I do believe in controlling foxes/rabbits/skates etc and believe in humane culling.

 

I'll not try to get a rise out of you on the subject as even though I think your mistaken as it is so obviously a deeply held belief for you and that I do understand.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

We used to set up in a field and wait. Get a kill and move on. Repeat until to tired and go home.

 

Sometimes we'd get a kill and othertimes nowt.

 

Out of interest what do you use? As I've said, not done it for many a moon. I used to really enjoy it.

 

243 but to be honest normally out to get on top of the rabbits. You must be quite confident of a fox arriving to where you are waiting because whenever I have been lamping you are mobile. To be fair if you are waiting then a .22 would do the job but I would be amazed if you never wounded one - should you be training for 2012?

[View From The Top]

243 but to be honest normally out to get on top of the rabbits. You must be quite confident of a fox arriving to where you are waiting because whenever I have been lamping you are mobile. To be fair if you are waiting then a .22 would do the job but I would be amazed if you never wounded one - should you be training for 2012?

 

 

I was in HM Forces at the time and shot on a regular basis. Had my own hand gun until Dunblane changed all that. I might well have winged one but can't remember doing so. In my mind I potted everything I aimed at. :-)

 

The blokes I used to go with were old school country types and HM Forces and they would ID a range and pathways of a number of foxes and then we'd go out and try to get them but not during the period when young were being raised.

 

As I said, I used to really enjoy it.

 

Never done deer, I would quite like that challenge of bringing one down clean.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Surely it's just as much 'fun' shooting clay pigeons isn't it? I understand that some farmers may see a Fox as a pest and that they have to be controlled, but there has to be a method more efficent than a pack of dogs with a blood lust?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I was in HM Forces at the time and shot on a regular basis. Had my own hand gun until Dunblane changed all that. I might well have winged one but can't remember doing so. In my mind I potted everything I aimed at. :-)

 

The blokes I used to go with were old school country types and HM Forces and they would ID a range and pathways of a number of foxes and then we'd go out and try to get them but not during the period when young were being raised.

 

As I said, I used to really enjoy it.

 

Never done deer, I would quite like that challenge of bringing one down clean.

 

Proper country types are dieing out especially where we are in the south as houses in villages get bought up by commuter types and villages are no longer working villages. It is a great tragedy. We are losing the people that really know about the countryside; I can never claim to know as much as they do but I will try to make sure my children do.

 

Part of it is just being out. To be honest I love stalking but not that fussed about pulling the trigger. I like just being on the hill or in a wood. What people do not understand is that today stalking is all about taking out the old stag, the smaller nobber or the scruffy hind to make sure that the stock is healthy.

[dune]

Does the Hursley hunt still exist?