Message from NC - discuss

[stmusicdude]

They are different. But Cortese seems if anything to be more arrogant than Lowe and less media/PR savvy yet he seems to have many people eating out of his hands whereas they wanted to hang Lowe.

 

My point is though that we cannot really judge Cortese in terms of having "success" until he gets this club up and competes with the big boys.

 

SEEMS .. Is the important word here. don't actually KNOW, most of this comes about because we & ONE national paper speculated .. before you all start saying several did it was syndicated but MOST chose not to run with it.

 

He HAS NOT sacked Parrds so really its a case of we shut up & see what happens, not a lot of point *****ing all summer about something he didn’t actually do in the end ..

AND additionally you don’t get where he is without a degree of arrogance .. a lot of that is OTHERS perception of how the said individual is .. & while it might come over as that normally its healthy determination.. which we do need.

[Thedelldays]

They are different. But Cortese seems if anything to be more arrogant than Lowe and less media/PR savvy yet he seems to have many people eating out of his hands whereas they wanted to hang Lowe.

 

My point is though that we cannot really judge Cortese in terms of having "success" until he gets this club up and competes with the big boys.

get behind cortese ffs

[musesaint]

In short...What he is saying is:-

 

I know what I am doing

 

I am not going to respond to unfounded rumours

 

This club is going back to the Premiership ASAP

 

Anything else is a distraction

 

 

... I am quite happy with that :-) ....and I'm amazed that an ever complaining minority apprarently aren't

[alpine_saint]

Pardew went into this on weak ground but after today's statement he is in a much stronger position. I think Cortese threw his toys out of his Ferrari designed pram because the less you come out and say the more you are in control. He has now given the media actual quotes that they can hold him to, and that works in Pardews favour for now.

 

 

Enchantingly nasty from you. This post and the others on this thread demonstrate clearly what your agenda is; how ironic therefore that you lecture others about theirs. You demanded a statement backing AP, got it, and are still b*tching.

 

SOGGY, Lowe aint coming back. Deal with it.

[alpine_saint]

In short...What he is saying is:-

 

I know what I am doing

 

I am not going to respond to unfounded rumours

 

This club is going back to the Premiership ASAP

 

Anything else is a distraction

 

 

... I am quite happy with that :-) ....and I'm amazed that an ever complaining minority apprarently aren't

 

Indeed. Its pathetic.

[Turkish]

In short...What he is saying is:-

 

I know what I am doing

 

I am not going to respond to unfounded rumours

 

This club is going back to the Premiership ASAP

 

Anything else is a distraction

 

 

... I am quite happy with that :-) ....and I'm amazed that an ever complaining minority apprarently aren't

 

Spot on, as usual people panicking over nothing and ****ting themselves over totally unfounded rumours and speculation.

[miserableoldgit]

Enchantingly nasty from you. This post and the others on this thread demonstrate clearly what your agenda is; how ironic therefore that you lecture others about theirs. You demanded a statement backing AP, got it, and are still b*tching.

 

SOGGY, Lowe aint coming back. Deal with it.

I suppose that someone has to carry the torch for 19C whilst he is not around.

[Wes Tender]

Life is to short to answer all of your responses Wes but I shall a couple.

 

It didn't take me long to write those few lines to refute your conjecture and assertions. And you have spent far more time since then on your ensuing posts. So I'll take it that instead you found it difficult to counter my points.

 

People like me adding 2 and 2 and amking 5? I think a lot of people did that and why? Cortese hardly showed any ringing endoresement of Pardew last season or in this statement.

 

So you jump to the conclusion (again) that he must be lying about his relationship with Pardew, instead of accepting the possibility that Cortese isn't the sort of guy to make public statements to the media every five minutes.

 

The hugs at Wembley...what was he supposed to do? The cameras were on him, he was hardly likely to blank Pardew was he?

 

So, again you make a presumption that he acted in a false manner, against his personal nature and instincts, just for the sake of how it might appear to the cameras if he didn't? It couldn't possibly be that he was caught up in the euphoria of the moment and genuinely felt the warmth for what Pardew had achieved and expressed it in that manner?

 

A media frenzy is when all of the national media pick up on a story not just one national newspaper and the local rag.

 

Other media sources had also picked up on the unfounded allegations made by these two and commented on it too. The fact that an item of news affecting a 3rd division club was picked up by a national newspaper and a story fabricated out of tittle-tattle suggests to me that a frenzy was at least the objective desired by the Echo and their friends at the Mail, probably because Cortese doesn't kow-tow to them.

 

None of us know for sure but I don't think it unreasonable to get the impression thta Pardew was out of the door, not from the speculation in the media but from Cortese's own actions. Perhaps thje media speculation and fan based support changed his mind? Who knows? I don't believe his statement though and I certainly don't believe it is all lovey dovey between them.

 

You're entitled to your opinions of course. My opinion of your opinion is that it is quite possibly totally pie in the sky, utter bunk, based as it is entirely on speculation, not one supporting fact in sight.

 

Either way, the manager stays for a while, hopefully Cortese has leaned something about how to conduct himself and we have a summer of rebuilding to look forward to.

 

I hope that you have learned something from this put down, not to jump to conclusions without any basis of fact and that we will have a a season without further baseless conjecture from you. See how easy it is to spout these sorts of platitudes?

 

 

The only real worry I have is that if Cortese feels he has been backed into supported Pardew, then perhaps he wont be backing him 100% in the transfer market and will look to unload him the minute that results allow him a window of opportunity.

Interesting season ahead methinks!

 

But I won't hold my breath. You just can't help it, as you've done it again.

[Wes Tender]

Enchantingly nasty from you. This post and the others on this thread demonstrate clearly what your agenda is; how ironic therefore that you lecture others about theirs. You demanded a statement backing AP, got it, and are still b*tching.

SOGGY, Lowe aint coming back. Deal with it.

 

Direct hit, Alpine!

 

Quote Sadoldgit

I think Cortese threw his toys out of his Ferrari designed pram because the less you come out and say the more you are in control

 

But SOG is probably a bit upset that Cortese has said something concrete, as it makes his groundless assertions as to what the situation is look stupid.

 

But even after Cortese's statement, he still feels able to paint some scenario that will put a smile on his face in anticipation that nasty things might come about to the detriment of the club.

 

Quote Sadoldgit:

The only real worry I have is that if Cortese feels he has been backed into supported Pardew, then perhaps he wont be backing him 100% in the transfer market and will look to unload him the minute that results allow him a window of opportunity.

[Thedelldays]

soggy...you are unreal, you tell us we cant dare do a thing like question the managers choice of sub or formation and then you give Cortese the biggest insult you can, you speak of him in the same breath as LOWE..

 

as far as I am concerned, we would not have Markus if it was not for him

so, in my world, Cortese walks on water...

 

remember who brougt this new beginning to us

 

[alpine_saint]

soggy...you are unreal, you tell us we cant dare do a thing like question the managers choice of sub or formation and then you give Cortese the biggest insult you can, you speak of him in the same breath as LOWE..

 

as far as I am concerned, we would not have Markus if it was not for him

so, in my world, Cortese walks on water...

 

remember who brougt this new beginning to us

 

 

I wouldnt bother, mate. The scales have fallen from everyone's eyes and SOGGY has shown himself to be a wannabee Charlie Sale on this thread...

[Charlie Wayman]

SEASON TICKETS?

 

Who like me is beginning to get very edgy about season tickets for next season? Why the delay? Cortese spoke of "stadium improvements" this summer, is that his code for the whole or much of the best seating areas in Itchen and Kingsland being re-developed for corporate and other high-added value seating arrangements?

 

Is this the beginnings of the BIG SQUEEZE and BIG FREEZE-OUT of we ordinary fans in favour of the prawn sandwich fraternity or more likely the Swiss Cheese Fondue set?

 

I need to know, You need to know... does anybody know what's going on down there?

 

If we get moved, where to 'cos for sure nobody else in Itchen or Kingsland will give up prime positions to accommodate the rest of us?

[Matthew Le God]

Is that his code for the whole or much of the best seating areas in Itchen and Kingsland being re-developed for corporate and other high-added value seating arrangements?

 

Is this the beginnings of the BIG SQUEEZE and BIG FREEZE-OUT of we ordinary fans in favour of the prawn sandwich fraternity or more likely the Swiss Cheese Fondue set?

?

 

Have you not seen how empty corporate has been for the last 5 years since the club left the Premiership? Of course they won't do any of what you suggest. As for corporate in the Kingsland, it is miles from any of the facilities required and would require a walk to the Itchen.

[dubai_phil]

SEASON TICKETS?

 

Who like me is beginning to get very edgy about season tickets for next season? Why the delay? Cortese spoke of "stadium improvements" this summer, is that his code for the whole or much of the best seating areas in Itchen and Kingsland being re-developed for corporate and other high-added value seating arrangements?

 

Is this the beginnings of the BIG SQUEEZE and BIG FREEZE-OUT of we ordinary fans in favour of the prawn sandwich fraternity or more likely the Swiss Cheese Fondue set?

 

I need to know, You need to know... does anybody know what's going on down there?

 

I'm sure some of The9/Granty's shots will end up in the Kingslandd we'll get them snapping while they look for the ball under the seats

 

If we get moved, where to 'cos for sure nobody else in Itchen or Kingsland will give up prime positions to accommodate the rest of us?

 

Well, TSW will be there en masse next Thursday, we'll try and see what they are up to and stick some pictures up.

 

Better still why not come down yourself? Funds raised are for Charity after all and you'll be able to have a damned good p*ss take out of most of us in the flesh as well as on here afters :cool:

[ottery st mary]

Hopefully Charlie Wayman has got a sat nav or some instructions on how to get to St Marys. Long way from Pompey or The Emirates.

[Frank's cousin]

I make no apology for quoting this post as I feel it is a good alternative view and one nearer to the truth, in my opinion.

 

As for McMenemy and the rest making their Pardew views know in the local paper, if they had considered the man they were dealing with could it have been done better? I think it could. They could have written a letter to Cortese praising his handling of the club since he came in, how they have enjoyed Southampton FC's reimergence and how confident they are of the future in safe hands and what an inspired choice Pardew was as Manager.

 

Ego massage from those who have been successful in the football business would have been the way to go.

 

Sorry Weston, I meant to quote Gio's a swell but struggle with the multiquote thingy ;-)

 

I points I would add though are these. Markus Liebherr is known as a solid and successful businessman. He is also as I understand it a private person, a religeous man and from the joy on his face at Wembley, its clear that he loves his football.

 

Now IMHO, the best business approach and in most cases the most successful, are when the you recognise your own limitations - you understand what you are good at and where there are better placed folk + recognising what takes time and whether you have enogh tobe totally dedicated to it. Its on record that Markus wanted Nicola to take the role - without Nicola's agreement Markus may not have bought Saints.

 

That is obviously a demonstration of teh TRUST that ML has in NC. Now alot has been made by some as to Nicola's style - his 'ego' or 'arrogance' and the way he criticised MLT and LM... now from a traditional fan perspective its difficult to reconcile... afterall we as fans are obssessed with history of our club, the legends and the glorys of past, it's what makes it what we are... so we struggle with these 'upstarts ' and their new fangled approaches... we expect them to show the appropriate respect to all things past....

 

... but I have to say I am of the school of thought that says past glories/history means nothing... (I await the backlash) - but hear me out.... the past is what dictates WHAT we have become, and where we are now... its our CURRENT identity and for all the 'we belong in the Prem' ****** that so many clubs have spouted... it means nothing because, where a club is is a direct result of how they have played and been run over the last 5-10 years... that does not mean our history means nothing to us as fans, of course it does, and its important to us as fans... but given that owners and CEOs who think too much about that 'baggage' and have gone about their business based on dreams and aspirations of glory have managed to put their clubs in huge debt despite this being an era of riches in the game, says alot about the burden that this approach places on these inividuals.

 

NC and ML came to us without that baggage, without the politics of recent times and importantly with a desire to do things their way - professionally. We might find tehm naive in teh ways of the media in the UK, and expect them to 'appreciate' thats how it is in the UK... but why? Why should they bow down to a system that is more interested in gossip and rumour, that is intrusive and 'old school'...why should they? There is no reason why they should.. its just us gans who are expecting it because thats the way its always been ... and I for one would bloddy well welcome a change here... where its the club that dictate policy and drive our decisions, not having weak minded folk who pander to the media, concerned more about the perception they gve in teh pubic eye than what is good for teh club... sure there can be a happy medium, but before you can arrive at that, the new ground rules need to be established... now that might seem arrogant and egotistical, but is it not ironic that nearly all criticise the media and the part they play, yet at the same time expect NC and the club to 'be more aware of it' and 'understand it'?

 

Sorry, But I am glad NC is bullish on this. Its a new way of going about the business that is football, and make no mistake it is a business, because without that accumen, a club cannot survive on 'community spirit' alone.

 

It also means NC has taken the responsibilty - he has put doen his marker that its his way and his decisions. Sure in our eyes he will make mistakes, everyone does, but the judgement will come in what is achieved over the next 2-3 years, not on whether some historical figures from our past feel sorry for the manager because the media have hyped up a situation they dont understand because its different to what they expect in the traditional sense.

 

Some have suggested that fan and media pressure helped save Alan's job.... Total and utter ****** (and again somehwta ironic given that the we have accused NC of being egotistical) - nothing 'saved' Alan's job, but what will have provided NC with the positives(speculation), to ensure he wanted to continue as planned and not make a change was Alan's response to the challenge - the form and effort during those last 15 or so games as all parts of the team bedded in. Its also a bit insulting to Alan to suggest that he is only still here because of anything other than the results his hard graft and effort has provided. He is here because of that, not despite it.

 

We need a change in mindset - we need to stop bleating on about what we as fans want and expect based on old school 'traditional expectations' and embrace the new era with an open mind.

[Foxstone]

Could not agree more Frankie Boy ! :smt023

[Charlie Wayman]

Hopefully Charlie Wayman has got a sat nav or some instructions on how to get to St Marys. Long way from Pompey or The Emirates.

 

The Pompey jibe is way below the belt, never been near the place. Saints stickers would ensure the trashing of my car. No chance of me going up the Spinnaker Tower to catch sight of Fart-on park either. Whichever way you look out it's still Portsmouth, Ugh!

[ottery st mary]

The Pompey jibe is way below the belt, never been near the place. Saints stickers would ensure the trashing of my car. No chance of me going up the Spinnaker Tower to catch sight of Fart-on park either. Whichever way you look out it's still Portsmouth, Ugh!

 

Back to the Emirates then...As you previously stated:smt114

[StuRomseySaint]

For the record, I am still certain that Cortese had all the intentions to sack Pardew but had his hand forced to backtrack because of public/media and ex-Saints opinion.

[Scummer]

For the record, I am still certain that Cortese had all the intentions to sack Pardew but had his hand forced to backtrack because of public/media and ex-Saints opinion.

 

You and Steve Grant both seem pretty sure of this. Is it based on anything, or just a gut feeling?

[alpine_saint]

Good post, Frank

[StuRomseySaint]

You and Steve Grant both seem pretty sure of this. Is it based on anything, or just a gut feeling?

 

Not ITK, just common sense really based on a number of 'gut feelings' .

 

Anyone who thinks a football club won't backtrack if they are faced with bad press and fan reaction don't need to look far back to the Hoddle situation.

 

It was obvious to Cortese after the reaction in the media and press to the speculation that any decision to sack Pardew would have been unanimously unpopular... you don't make decisions like that a few days before season tickets go on sale... it just doesn't make for good business practice.

 

If you read the statement taking into account my point of view, then it is clear to see it comes across as a very bitter rant aimed at a few people who he holds responsible for him not being able to sack Pardew ( ie: the legends )

[Matthew Le God]

Not ITK, just common sense really based on a number of 'gut feelings' .

 

Anyone who thinks a football club won't backtrack if they are faced with bad press and fan reaction don't need to look far back to the Hoddle situation.

 

It was obvious to Cortese after the reaction in the media and press to the speculation that any decision to sack Pardew would have been unanimously unpopular... you don't make decisions like that a few days before season tickets go on sale... it just doesn't make for good business practice.

 

If you read the statement taking into account my point of view, then it is clear to see it comes across as a very bitter rant aimed at a few people who he holds responsible for him not being able to sack Pardew ( ie: the legends )

 

The media speculation was completely unfounded and lacking in quotes and sources. I don't think Cortese is the type of man that makes business decisions based on the whims of a few vocal people. If he was going to sack Pardew he would and moved on with the business strategy.

[StuRomseySaint]

The media speculation was completely unfounded and lacking in quotes and sources. I don't think Cortese is the type of man that makes business decisions based on the whims of a few vocal people. If he was going to sack Pardew he would and moved on with the business strategy.

 

Lowe was just as arrogant as Cortese, maybe more so... he still gave in to the fans and backtracked about signing Hoddle.

 

Cortese might be arrogant and make decisions on a whim, but he is also a businessman and looking after the investment of a billionaire owner... he won't make decisions that will cost SFC money, especially when it involves sacking someone who has probably the best chance of getting us promoted next season out of any managers likely to want to come here.

 

It's not a few local people, every forum, radio phone-in, national newspaper, local newspaper, Southampton legends etc etc were calling for Pardew to stay... the vote of confidence was unanimous.

[Gingeletiss]

For the record, I am still certain that Cortese had all the intentions to sack Pardew but had his hand forced to backtrack because of public/media and ex-Saints opinion.

 

You've said this a dozen times now, on various threads. What are you trying to achieve here, if it's a reaction, you've had several, but is still wild speculation on your part.

[Matthew Le God]

Lowe was just as arrogant as Cortese, maybe more so... he still gave in to the fans and backtracked about signing Hoddle.

 

Cortese might be arrogant and make decisions on a whim, but he is also a businessman and looking after the investment of a billionaire owner... he won't make decisions that will cost SFC money, especially when it involves sacking someone who has probably the best chance of getting us promoted next season out of any managers likely to want to come here.

 

It's not a few local people, every forum, radio phone-in, national newspaper, local newspaper, Southampton legends etc etc were calling for Pardew to stay... the vote of confidence was unanimous.

 

But there was never ANY evidence in the public domain that Cortese was even considering sacking Pardew this summer.

 

All the local people, forum, radio phone-in, national newspaper, local newspaper, Southampton legends etc you mention were supporting Pardew against unsubstantiated media rumours without quotes or sources.

 

A snowball effect then ensued and it seems you were one of the many swept up in it!

 

Basically Stu, you are Daily Mail fodder!

Edited 17 May, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[krissyboy31]

For the record, I am still certain that Cortese had all the intentions to sack Pardew but had his hand forced to backtrack because of public/media and ex-Saints opinion.

 

If Cortese wanted to sack Pardew he would have done so, without a second thought about what you, me or Uncle Tom Cobbley thought about it.

[ottery st mary]

NC never contemplated sacking Pards and six or seven staff.

 

They had been in talks for many weeks about new players and retained list before it was finally sorted.

 

Some posters and their friendly paper boyzz have an axe to grind and many false stories bandied about whilst NC was getting on with the job..

 

You have to remember apart from the idiots at The Echo, The Mail and Radio Solent.....

We also have a few in the stand with ex Directors and money boyzz who seem hell bent on causing trouble re NC and Pards...

 

Nasty spiteful peeps.

[dubai_phil]

NC never contemplated sacking Pards and six or seven staff.

 

They had been in talks for many weeks about new players and retained list before it was finally sorted.

 

Some posters and their friendly paper boyzz have an axe to grind and many false stories bandied about whilst NC was getting on with the job..

 

You have to remember apart from the idiots at The Echo, The Mail and Radio Solent.....

We also have a few in the stand with ex Directors and money boyzz who seem hell bent on causing trouble re NC and Pards...

 

Nasty spiteful peeps.

 

All decent sized companies hold an annual review of their business and a forward planning session.

 

In my years down here I have been dragged to Thailand, Egypt, UK, france Holland and USA to attend the Review meetings.

 

In all business these days you are only as good as your last set of revenue results. If you have a bad year you MAY get the chance to put your new plan to Management and they may give you a month or so to see if you can keep to your word.

 

NC comes from BUSINESS. This process is in your DNA.

 

He will meet with the manager and review 2009/10 Season and discuss plans for 2010/11. Utterly, totally normal. Any employee attending such a review will know to prepare or face getting his/her ass kicked into next month or worse.

 

The Press simply read that correctly. AP's job was on the line. No sh1t Sherlock, it always will be in any critical job (unless you are a BA Hostie)

 

Was there any chance of AP getting fired? Yes if he turned up with a fag packet and a few scribbled notes. But of course he wouldn't as he is experienced. he turned up with the "Business Plan" for next season. he presented it, it has been approved, NORMAL business process.

 

Now the FACT that some on here OR some in the media have never been measured in tehir jobs or don't understand that led to the Interpretation.

 

Every year for 16 Years "D_P's job on the line as Management seek to review performance" could have been the headline. Reality was - piece of cake and lots of airmiles and another sightseeing trip.

 

It will take a long time before NC fully learns that "The bleedin obvious" to him means "Disaster at SMS to the Media"

[Gorgiesaint]

All decent sized companies hold an annual review of their business and a forward planning session.

 

In my years down here I have been dragged to Thailand, Egypt, UK, france Holland and USA to attend the Review meetings.

 

In all business these days you are only as good as your last set of revenue results. If you have a bad year you MAY get the chance to put your new plan to Management and they may give you a month or so to see if you can keep to your word.

 

NC comes from BUSINESS. This process is in your DNA.

 

He will meet with the manager and review 2009/10 Season and discuss plans for 2010/11. Utterly, totally normal. Any employee attending such a review will know to prepare or face getting his/her ass kicked into next month or worse.

 

The Press simply read that correctly. AP's job was on the line. No sh1t Sherlock, it always will be in any critical job (unless you are a BA Hostie)

 

Was there any chance of AP getting fired? Yes if he turned up with a fag packet and a few scribbled notes. But of course he wouldn't as he is experienced. he turned up with the "Business Plan" for next season. he presented it, it has been approved, NORMAL business process.

 

Now the FACT that some on here OR some in the media have never been measured in tehir jobs or don't understand that led to the Interpretation.

 

Every year for 16 Years "D_P's job on the line as Management seek to review performance" could have been the headline. Reality was - piece of cake and lots of airmiles and another sightseeing trip.

 

It will take a long time before NC fully learns that "The bleedin obvious" to him means "Disaster at SMS to the Media"

 

Spot on

[Micky]

All decent sized companies hold an annual review of their business and a forward planning session.

 

In my years down here I have been dragged to Thailand, Egypt, UK, france Holland and USA to attend the Review meetings.

 

In all business these days you are only as good as your last set of revenue results. If you have a bad year you MAY get the chance to put your new plan to Management and they may give you a month or so to see if you can keep to your word.

 

NC comes from BUSINESS. This process is in your DNA.

 

He will meet with the manager and review 2009/10 Season and discuss plans for 2010/11. Utterly, totally normal. Any employee attending such a review will know to prepare or face getting his/her ass kicked into next month or worse.

 

The Press simply read that correctly. AP's job was on the line. No sh1t Sherlock, it always will be in any critical job (unless you are a BA Hostie)

 

Was there any chance of AP getting fired? Yes if he turned up with a fag packet and a few scribbled notes. But of course he wouldn't as he is experienced. he turned up with the "Business Plan" for next season. he presented it, it has been approved, NORMAL business process.

 

Now the FACT that some on here OR some in the media have never been measured in tehir jobs or don't understand that led to the Interpretation.

 

Every year for 16 Years "D_P's job on the line as Management seek to review performance" could have been the headline. Reality was - piece of cake and lots of airmiles and another sightseeing trip.

 

It will take a long time before NC fully learns that "The bleedin obvious" to him means "Disaster at SMS to the Media"

 

Good post - pretty much par for the course though for successfull business people, there is nothing sinister - just good sound business practice.

 

BTW - Perhaps you could post this in the Lounge on the PFC thread - they might be able to see where they have been going wrong all these years...!

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Sorry Weston, I meant to quote Gio's a swell but struggle with the multiquote thingy ;-)

 

I points I would add though are these. Markus Liebherr is known as a solid and successful businessman. He is also as I understand it a private person, a religeous man and from the joy on his face at Wembley, its clear that he loves his football.

 

Now IMHO, the best business approach and in most cases the most successful, are when the you recognise your own limitations - you understand what you are good at and where there are better placed folk + recognising what takes time and whether you have enogh tobe totally dedicated to it. Its on record that Markus wanted Nicola to take the role - without Nicola's agreement Markus may not have bought Saints.

 

That is obviously a demonstration of teh TRUST that ML has in NC. Now alot has been made by some as to Nicola's style - his 'ego' or 'arrogance' and the way he criticised MLT and LM... now from a traditional fan perspective its difficult to reconcile... afterall we as fans are obssessed with history of our club, the legends and the glorys of past, it's what makes it what we are... so we struggle with these 'upstarts ' and their new fangled approaches... we expect them to show the appropriate respect to all things past....

 

... but I have to say I am of the school of thought that says past glories/history means nothing... (I await the backlash) - but hear me out.... the past is what dictates WHAT we have become, and where we are now... its our CURRENT identity and for all the 'we belong in the Prem' ****** that so many clubs have spouted... it means nothing because, where a club is is a direct result of how they have played and been run over the last 5-10 years... that does not mean our history means nothing to us as fans, of course it does, and its important to us as fans... but given that owners and CEOs who think too much about that 'baggage' and have gone about their business based on dreams and aspirations of glory have managed to put their clubs in huge debt despite this being an era of riches in the game, says alot about the burden that this approach places on these inividuals.

 

NC and ML came to us without that baggage, without the politics of recent times and importantly with a desire to do things their way - professionally. We might find tehm naive in teh ways of the media in the UK, and expect them to 'appreciate' thats how it is in the UK... but why? Why should they bow down to a system that is more interested in gossip and rumour, that is intrusive and 'old school'...why should they? There is no reason why they should.. its just us gans who are expecting it because thats the way its always been ... and I for one would bloddy well welcome a change here... where its the club that dictate policy and drive our decisions, not having weak minded folk who pander to the media, concerned more about the perception they gve in teh pubic eye than what is good for teh club... sure there can be a happy medium, but before you can arrive at that, the new ground rules need to be established... now that might seem arrogant and egotistical, but is it not ironic that nearly all criticise the media and the part they play, yet at the same time expect NC and the club to 'be more aware of it' and 'understand it'?

 

Sorry, But I am glad NC is bullish on this. Its a new way of going about the business that is football, and make no mistake it is a business, because without that accumen, a club cannot survive on 'community spirit' alone.

 

It also means NC has taken the responsibilty - he has put doen his marker that its his way and his decisions. Sure in our eyes he will make mistakes, everyone does, but the judgement will come in what is achieved over the next 2-3 years, not on whether some historical figures from our past feel sorry for the manager because the media have hyped up a situation they dont understand because its different to what they expect in the traditional sense.

 

Some have suggested that fan and media pressure helped save Alan's job.... Total and utter ****** (and again somehwta ironic given that the we have accused NC of being egotistical) - nothing 'saved' Alan's job, but what will have provided NC with the positives(speculation), to ensure he wanted to continue as planned and not make a change was Alan's response to the challenge - the form and effort during those last 15 or so games as all parts of the team bedded in. Its also a bit insulting to Alan to suggest that he is only still here because of anything other than the results his hard graft and effort has provided. He is here because of that, not despite it.

 

We need a change in mindset - we need to stop bleating on about what we as fans want and expect based on old school 'traditional expectations' and embrace the new era with an open mind.

 

All eminently reasonable... apart from the fact that this is England, this is English football and we are English fans with our own football identity.

 

Unfortunately your way is basically the philosophy that underpins the franchise route. The franchise serves up the product, and we buy it (or not). But club loyalty and identity depends on fans feeling more for their club than just turning up to watch football entertainment.

 

I am begining to feel that NC sees merely the business. That's not to say he won't do a good job with it, but will he provide the communication and generate that feeling of involvement (real or perceived) that the die-hard fan wants in addition to just the match?

 

Will we become just another soulless club? The prawn sandwich franchise of the South Coast? It works while you are winning, but the plastic fans so berated on this forum are quick to disappear when the going is less than smooth.

[Wes Tender]

All eminently reasonable... apart from the fact that this is England, this is English football and we are English fans with our own football identity.

 

Unfortunately your way is basically the philosophy that underpins the franchise route. The franchise serves up the product, and we buy it (or not). But club loyalty and identity depends on fans feeling more for their club than just turning up to watch football entertainment.

 

I am begining to feel that NC sees merely the business. That's not to say he won't do a good job with it, but will he provide the communication and generate that feeling of involvement (real or perceived) that the die-hard fan wants in addition to just the match?

 

Will we become just another soulless club? The prawn sandwich franchise of the South Coast? It works while you are winning, but the plastic fans so berated on this forum are quick to disappear when the going is less than smooth.

 

I'm entirely comfortable with a chief executive that keeps a low profile and just gets on with it. If because we achieve success and return to the Premiership, I accept that prices will rise and that corporate hospitality will be increasingly important as a source of increased revenue and profit for the owner. That is to be expected and I don't begrudge ML seeing the fruits of his speculative investment in us.

 

Regarding the plastics, yes, they will increase as we return to the top tier of British football, but I think that we are indeed fortunate to have such a solid base of support, an average gate of over 20,000 in the third division, a support that is better than three of the Premiership teams. If we get off to a flyer this coming season and are headed towards automatic promotion, we will undoubtedly see those attendance figures increase still further.

[Victor]

All eminently reasonable... apart from the fact that this is England, this is English football and we are English fans with our own football identity.

 

Unfortunately your way is basically the philosophy that underpins the franchise route. The franchise serves up the product, and we buy it (or not). But club loyalty and identity depends on fans feeling more for their club than just turning up to watch football entertainment.

 

I am begining to feel that NC sees merely the business. That's not to say he won't do a good job with it, but will he provide the communication and generate that feeling of involvement (real or perceived) that the die-hard fan wants in addition to just the match?

 

Will we become just another soulless club? The prawn sandwich franchise of the South Coast? It works while you are winning, but the plastic fans so berated on this forum are quick to disappear when the going is less than smooth.

 

Precisely.

 

If I take Frank's Cousin's advice and consider past glories/history mean nothing, given that I no longer live near Southampton and NC is saying that it my & Markus's club now and we will do what we like without consulting you or keeping you informed,why should I care - why should I keep supporting Saints rather than any other club?

[Frank's cousin]

Precisely.

 

If I take Frank's Cousin's advice and consider past glories/history mean nothing, given that I no longer live near Southampton and NC is saying that it my & Markus's club now and we will do what we like without consulting you or keeping you informed,why should I care - why should I keep supporting Saints rather than any other club?

 

Hi

 

Think you have both misunderstood me a little. I made the point that to fans these things ARE important, but from the perspective of where we see ouselves NOW - our history is what has created the spirit and culture etc... but these things are never static but evolve. I was trying to make the point that for NC and ML, there is actually an advantage to not carrying that weight or burden, because they can try something NEW as a path to success , precisely because they dont feel obliged to follow in past footsteps.

 

Sure there is a potential danger that this will conflict with our expectations of a the way a club operates within a community and with its fans, but ultimately as most fans have always said, the judgement is based on the end result.

 

I am not convinced by the 'this is England' argument, could do a Gordon Brown on that comment, as it does not help. We want success and we want it quickly, as do the owner and NC. We want the club to grow, attract more fans and capture the imagination of the local community and a wider fan base which we will do through success...as do ML and NC, we want to see SMS full with a great atmosphere with fans who are fully engaged with the club...as do ML and NC... its justthat fans see the only way to achieve this by the 'traditional principles of running a club in a community' whereas the new owner and NC see alternative approaches. We may find them uncomfortable, but we should not dismiss it. Its diferent to what we are used to, but that does not make it bad or wrong and has nothing to do with 'franchise FC' ******.

 

It also seems a little ironic that on the one hand soem are saying that its the fans, the history that make /are the club, yet there is concern this can be arroded by the clubs management? As I see it, if teh club IS its fans and history, the style or approach the board take in seeking success should have little impact on the culture etc because that is driven by the fans...who are the club.

 

Hense, for me., I 'm sitting back and enjoying being driven in a direction that different but has the same aims - a hunger for success and growth... Is there really a problem with that, or are we making one as its different to what we are simply used to?

[Victor]

I agree with you to an extent, F'sC, but NC needs to take me along with him if I am to continue supporting Saints.

 

I am not happy about his apparent arrogance and siege mentality; he needs to chill a bit. He is competing in a strange environment against other very capable clubs and I don't expect him to throw his toys out of his pram because he didn't get a prize at the first attempt.

 

I may, of course, have read the signs wrongly but I don't want Saints to get to the situation of the hated MU where we have to adopt the colours of a bygone age to get our point across to a glory-hungry foreign owner that has changed the club for the worse.

[up and away]

I agree with you to an extent, F'sC, but NC needs to take me along with him if I am to continue supporting Saints.

 

I am not happy about his apparent arrogance and siege mentality; he needs to chill a bit. He is competing in a strange environment against other very capable clubs and I don't expect him to throw his toys out of his pram because he didn't get a prize at the first attempt.

 

I may, of course, have read the signs wrongly but I don't want Saints to get to the situation of the hated MU where we have to adopt the colours of a bygone age to get our point across to a glory-hungry foreign owner that has changed the club for the worse.

 

I believe you have read this totally wrong. We only get about a couple of comments a season, he just gets on with his job and gives us the resources for far greater things. If anything was getting thrown out of the pram it would have been Pardew, but he obviously sees it wisest to continue with Pardew (how ever he came to that decision).

 

We would not have heard a dicky bird from Cortese, but for the fact it was necessary to safeguard the plans laid out and reassure Pardew this was all bollix.

[Gingeletiss]

I agree with you to an extent, F'sC, but NC needs to take me along with him if I am to continue supporting Saints.

 

I am not happy about his apparent arrogance and siege mentality; he needs to chill a bit. He is competing in a strange environment against other very capable clubs and I don't expect him to throw his toys out of his pram because he didn't get a prize at the first attempt.

 

I may, of course, have read the signs wrongly but I don't want Saints to get to the situation of the hated MU where we have to adopt the colours of a bygone age to get our point across to a glory-hungry foreign owner that has changed the club for the worse.

 

You have deduced all of that, out of a few media comments, and dare I say, drink induced debates with your self. I say a career as a detective is out your league.

 

Right, that's the sarcastic reply, which is the norm on here. Seriously, you have read it all wrong IMO. NC is a buisness man, I think he will be head hunted by many a big team, to run things for them, and on that assumption alone, I'd say he knows what he is doing. Again, in my opinion, NC is exactly what is required at Southampton, and if he hurts a few delicate feelings, then tough, he will bring the good times back, if this season gone is any indication. Just hold on, the ride is going to be a Lulu.

[John Smith]

I agree with you to an extent, F'sC, but NC needs to take me along with him if I am to continue supporting Saints.

 

I am not happy about his apparent arrogance and siege mentality; he needs to chill a bit. He is competing in a strange environment against other very capable clubs and I don't expect him to throw his toys out of his pram because he didn't get a prize at the first attempt.

 

The echo have stirred things up, this apparent 'arrogance' and 'siege mentality' are in your head a little. I think you'll find NC is running a football club, not a sports column in the local or national press. Now Lowe, if you want to talk about arrogance, there's a fine example, what did he call saints own fans who watched in the Northam? NC hasn;t sued anybody, yet, Lowe did it many times, is this the way to deal with it? Or, should NC just rebuff the story tellers in his own business and tell his employee's what's going on in the right channels? If you want to know what's going on in the club, read the OS, not the Mail, not the echo. Local business doesn;t report to the echo first, so why should NC? I think you'll find it's the echo that are throwing their toys and everything else out the pram, in the end NC was compelled to respond, what did you expect, seriously, welcome the echo and their fine gutter journalism into the fold and let them move amoungst the players and unsettle them, Lambert for Celtic anyone? Or, is that what you want, you don;t want to support Saints anymore because we are up and coming, and the more of our top players we unsettle, the better. Puncheon, Schneiderlin, Kelvin, Lambert, lallana? Who else could the echo sell for us, surely we could sell the bl**dy lot for a score and play the reserves. Maybe we should bring in a dutch concept? Get a grip.

 

You missed out on the JPT final because you haven't been to enough games this season, I understand that you live far away and can't go, but some of us have relished this season and watched saints play proper football for a change. We llok good, not poor or average, but good. This is in large down to NC and ML choosing the right men for the job and backing those decisions with money to buy the right players. Who would you swap lambert for? Puncheon? Fonte? Who else have you been disappointed with this season. You are lambasting the man that has brought us a great club again, and I for one pplaude him, I will not tell him who should manage his club or how he should talk to the press. Even under Lowe, whilst Stachan was in control, we let him get on with it. Whilst NC is bringing success and making this club better, shouldn;t we get behind him?

 

I may, of course, have read the signs wrongly but I don't want Saints to get to the situation of the hated MU where we have to adopt the colours of a bygone age to get our point across to a glory-hungry foreign owner that has changed the club for the worse.

 

I don't see your point here? Are you saying that we are 'adopting' our own colours as a ruse to win the fans over? If not what i your point, we have changed the kits multiple times in your lifetime, Rank Xerox, Hummell, etc, etc. A glory-hungry foreigner? Yeah, that's right, SFC was a prime candidate for a glory-hungry foreigner, we won the FA cup in 76 and, er, the um, in errr, yeah then? WTF!!!

 

Victor, you are welcome to your opinion, but seriously, Man Ure, prawn sandwich's, I think we're a long way from that yet. And if you think ML bought this club using debt, like the Glaziers, then you are in la la land. They are here to make things better, but not laddling the club with debt, I applaude them for this, and so should you and so should the echo, we shouldn't tell them who the manager of the club should be, and then when they agree, still attack him. The echo has lost the plot, you knpow it, I know it, NC knows it, we all know it. The echo brought it on themselves, they wanted a reaction, and in the end, they got one, what's to complain about?

[Wes Tender]

I agree with you to an extent, F'sC, but NC needs to take me along with him if I am to continue supporting Saints.

 

I am not happy about his apparent arrogance and siege mentality; he needs to chill a bit. He is competing in a strange environment against other very capable clubs and I don't expect him to throw his toys out of his pram because he didn't get a prize at the first attempt.

 

I may, of course, have read the signs wrongly but I don't want Saints to get to the situation of the hated MU where we have to adopt the colours of a bygone age to get our point across to a glory-hungry foreign owner that has changed the club for the worse.

 

You've read the signs wrongly.

[StuRomseySaint]

If Cortese wanted to sack Pardew he would have done so, without a second thought about what you, me or Uncle Tom Cobbley thought about it.

 

Wrong.

 

He is a businessman.

 

He would have done what is best for the business.

[Frank's cousin]

Wrong.

 

He is a businessman.

 

He would have done what is best for the business.

 

This is the problem in some ways as its all semantics... whenever fans hear the word business or running the club as a 'business' its all gets too scary for some. Yet the principles still apply whether its manufacturing or footall... you need a product, a reputation and level of service that keeps your customers happy. Football has always fecked over its fans, because in many cases the owners know we cant simply become customers of our nearest competitors!

 

BUt like you say, I also believe that NC will do what is best for the business, irrspective of personnal opinion, fan opinion, media opinion. However, keeping customers hapy IS important. but lets be honest about it for a moment - what would we rather have, a hard nose who is quiet, perhaps sometimes a little aloof or reclusive for our tastes, but gets on with job, runs a tight financially stable ship that has all the hallmarks of strong foundations on which to build, provides funds as required, but puts huge pressure on the manager to deliver with those funds BECAUSE he an the owner have ambition, but is delivering success...or a nice old school fan friendly Chairman, who goes on and on about giving teh club back to its fans, comes out with large numbers of fan platitudes, possibly some nice T shirts etc, spends money we dont really have because fans expect him to and then get us into financial trouble , but hey its all OK because he is closely engaged with the fans and community?

 

Sure we wnat the best of both, but thats unrealistic, we donthave that, so if its a straight choice I know who I am behind.

 

Sometimes NC will make unpopular decisions... it will happen, the question is whether its a right decision for the club long term, not whether its unpopular short term - That's what I mean about a change in mind set. The days of players jumping on the bus with fans after a game may be wonderful from a nostalgic view and have helped create the affinity we have with our clubs to this day, but they are long gone and if we want success, we need to understand that.

[Daren W]

Wrong.

 

He is a businessman.

 

He would have done what is best for the business.

 

Do you think that Cortese needs to be more forthcoming with the fans? Just going by this thread alone, we've got countless people reading between the lines, putting two and two together and coming with... oh you get the drift...

 

Perhaps we need more openess from the chairman, a bit more honesty? The Echo certainly jumped in with both feet but perhaps that was due to the stunning silence emanating from St Marys. If we don't know the truth we'll make our own up...

 

None of us, not one single one of us, knows what Cortese is thinking and what sort of person he is. He may be a ruthless business, he may be glowing humanitarian who bought Saints to bring peace and light to the world...

 

None of us know... and none of us ever will know until we get to know more about him as a person..

[StuRomseySaint]

Do you think that Cortese needs to be more forthcoming with the fans? Just going by this thread alone, we've got countless people reading between the lines, putting two and two together and coming with... oh you get the drift...

 

Perhaps we need more openess from the chairman, a bit more honesty? The Echo certainly jumped in with both feet but perhaps that was due to the stunning silence emanating from St Marys. If we don't know the truth we'll make our own up...

 

None of us, not one single one of us, knows what Cortese is thinking and what sort of person he is. He may be a ruthless business, he may be glowing humanitarian who bought Saints to bring peace and light to the world...

 

None of us know... and none of us ever will know until we get to know more about him as a person..

 

Yes, definately, hence my 'more transparancy' thread.

 

He could have nipped that in the bud when the rumours first started to circulate, he could have cleared up the programme situation on the day, or at least on the Monday and nipped that rumour in the bud too.

 

The thing is though, I think it was intentional that he sat back and watched the fallout... certainly a good way of guaging the level of public support to his manager, which showed him that the feelgood factor would be severely damaged if he sacked Pardew.

 

Countless people on this thread have said that wouldn't bother him...

 

Errrrr... feelgood factors sell season tickets, sell sponsorship, sell corporate membership, sell merchandise etc etc... YES of course he would have been bothered about that.

 

As for the 'I will not respond to speculation etc, I haven't got time' line from Cortese... fair enough but when speculation reaches the levels it does, you have a duty to reassure fans and you employ Jordan Sibley to do just that.

[Frank's cousin]

Do you think that Cortese needs to be more forthcoming with the fans? Just going by this thread alone, we've got countless people reading between the lines, putting two and two together and coming with... oh you get the drift...

 

Perhaps we need more openess from the chairman, a bit more honesty? The Echo certainly jumped in with both feet but perhaps that was due to the stunning silence emanating from St Marys. If we don't know the truth we'll make our own up...

 

None of us, not one single one of us, knows what Cortese is thinking and what sort of person he is. He may be a ruthless business, he may be glowing humanitarian who bought Saints to bring peace and light to the world...

 

None of us know... and none of us ever will know until we get to know more about him as a person..

 

Very true, but this will not stop many from speculating based on what little they do know.

 

I think the problem is as you have pointed out, is that most fans want more info, not less. but lets be realistic for a moment... we were talking about a SENSITIVE issue, in the 'sacking' or otherwise of a manager. I think had AP had the dreaded vote of confidenece, no one would have believed it anyway, so what was the point of any communication? For my part, or my speculation is twofold:

 

1. NC/ML do not conduct this sort of business in public, so we had better get used to it (I happen to agree with that as well)

 

2. We heard no lies, we heard nothing, and if I were to speculate I would suggest the following: When additioanl spending was granted in Jan last year, it came with certain caveats - an improvement in league position, and style, possibly with play off ambition attched...

 

So its possible that APs role WOULD be reviewed at season end - and despite the ego of some believeing it all to be the pressure that meant he kept his job, something I thing is an INSULT to Pards by the way...because I think on review discussion, it was clear that we had achieved a great deal - just look at the run in, the JPT etc - the reingagement of fans with the club, the 50,000 or so at Wembley. NC is not stupid, he will have seen the positive steps made by Alan and so appreciated what we had despite being naturally dissapointed that we missed out on a playoff place... but some fans prefer to see conspiracy.

 

I have no doubt that had Pards wasted the cash, that we had ended say in 10 or 12 with a mid table form, he may well have been out the door, hense possibly Pards own manipulation of the media with his hints etc... the pressure was on ... he delivered, NC and about 20000 + Pards and players ALL disspointed that we just failed to makle it, BUT alll recognising we gave it a bloody good go and it was close, so ALL recognise that we should be in good shape for next season wher promotion is the only target... end of story... nothing to see here etc... which is why NC was probably so ****ed off the media were kicking up a s hit storm fuelled unfortunately by fan paranoia, and quotes from the past figures. NC was not ****ed off with Matt and LM because of WHAT they said, afterall it was just support for Pards, but teh fact they said it at was fuel for the flames the media were trying to create.

[Daren W]

Yes, definately, hence my 'more transparancy' thread.

 

He could have nipped that in the bud when the rumours first started to circulate, he could have cleared up the programme situation on the day, or at least on the Monday and nipped that rumour in the bud too.

 

The thing is though, I think it was intentional that he sat back and watched the fallout... certainly a good way of guaging the level of public support to his manager, which showed him that the feelgood factor would be severely damaged if he sacked Pardew.

 

Countless people on this thread have said that wouldn't bother him...

 

Errrrr... feelgood factors sell season tickets, sell sponsorship, sell corporate membership, sell merchandise etc etc... YES of course he would have been bothered about that.

 

As for the 'I will not respond to speculation etc, I haven't got time' line from Cortese... fair enough but when speculation reaches the levels it does, you have a duty to reassure fans and you employ Jordan Sibley to do just that.

 

Spot. On.

 

I felt that, to a certain extent, Cortese gave the Echo enough rope to hang themselves. You're right on the money with Pardew as well. There are signs that Saints have been looking at players post the Carlise game, when we knew our promotion bid was over. If Brighton are quoted as saying that their player was stalling on a new contract as Saints were showing an interest then I doubt very much that the club is unsettling players without a long term plan, or at least Pardew's plan...

 

But I do most certainly agree that Cortese's silence was partly him simply gauging the public/press's support for him. Had it been lukewarm, Pardew would be gone. End of of.

 

Cortese is an extremely smart cookie, ruthless but not stupid. He knows Pardew's done a good job but could do better and his silence has also told Pardew that almost is not good enough...

 

It's going to be an interesting new season...

[sadoldgit]

soggy...you are unreal, you tell us we cant dare do a thing like question the managers choice of sub or formation and then you give Cortese the biggest insult you can, you speak of him in the same breath as LOWE..

 

as far as I am concerned, we would not have Markus if it was not for him

so, in my world, Cortese walks on water...

 

remember who brougt this new beginning to us

 

 

I speak of him in the same breath as Lowe DD because I am an adult, not a child. Why can't the two be compared? Frankly the only difference I see between them is that one has manoney and the other didn't. Cortese no longer walks on water as Lowe ate babies. They are both businessmen. They are both arrogant. Both fell out with the Echo. Both have no PR savvy. Neither had football backgrounds before coming to the club. Cortese has had one season here. Lets see what he has achieved in 5. If he does walk on water we shall be back in the Prem I just think it is a little previous to start the hero worship already.

 

By the way, I think that the success on the pitch is down to the manager more than the CEO. Perhaps it is Pardew you should be bigging up and not the "suit".

[hypochondriac]

TBF SOG, Pardew was appointed by the CEO...

[alpine_saint]

TBF SOG, Pardew was appointed by the CEO...

 

Dont let that minor detail get in the way of SOGGYs rants..........

 

Comparing NC to Lowe is a massive insult to NC, since he has brought money INTO the club whereas Lowe only took money from the club...