Arizona Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 SFC is a private company and that is the end of it and I am not concerned by the internal workings provided there remains investment. My issue is that yet again SFC are creating news and gossip as a result of manager speculation. As a fan of SFC I am so ****ed of with negative news regarding the club. NC needs to sh#t or get off the pot with AP's position - It's time to close out this subject and he is the one that has the responsbility. Player rumours, etc, he can keep quiet about, but this issue needs to be resolved. SFC haven't created the news, the media has. I think it's more a case of NC never actually being on the pot. He's in the kitchen baking muffins whilst his neighbours are out in the street telling everyone he's having a sh*t.
corsacar saint Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 What an excellent post by Corky Morris. So why do we not all wait until the club have something to announce.
View From The Top Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 What an excellent post by Corky Morris. So why do we not all wait until the club have something to announce. He certainly knows his merchant bankers.
Tartarus112 Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 "A few little things" like the main ticket income for the club next season as well as a long-term source of revenue, not to mention keeping the fanbase in the dark and treating them dismissively by not making a usual product available and then not explaining why... ...what exactly do you regards as a "big" issue if the club's funding, the ability of people to watch matches, and the owner and chairman's relationship with the fans aren't ? It's not as if we're desperate for the income seeing as we're already making a huge loss every month. Are you not being a bit impatient? So they don't set season ticket prices at the same time, isn't that the difference in management styles more than anything. I doubt they are deliberately keeping you in the dark. The season starts in mid august that gives them around 3 months to launch season tickets and you're worrying now? It's amazing how a little change can shake some people up.
VectisSaint Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 It could be that we no longer need the season ticket money to fund operations and transfers. This was a view I mentioned a while back. The plan is to roll back the ST prices a la Asda to 1885 prices for adults, but only for those who could produce their ST from that first season to celebrate our 125th I have mine ready, don't know about the rest of you.
VectisSaint Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 SFC haven't created the news, the media has. I think it's more a case of NC never actually being on the pot. He's in the kitchen baking muffins whilst his neighbours are out in the street telling everyone he's having a sh*t. New rumour, NC is baking muffins. Beattie is being signed as back up for Rickie next season. You heard it here first.
stevegrant Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 It's not as if we're desperate for the income seeing as we're already making a huge loss every month. Are we? Obviously there are no publicly visible figures for this, and won't be for some time (private limited companies have more time to submit accounts to Companies House), but my estimation is that we're actually pretty close to break-even (if we're not making a profit), particularly with the attendances we've had this season and the spin-offs from the two cup runs.
Give it to Ron Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Are we? Obviously there are no publicly visible figures for this, and won't be for some time (private limited companies have more time to submit accounts to Companies House), but my estimation is that we're actually pretty close to break-even (if we're not making a profit), particularly with the attendances we've had this season and the spin-offs from the two cup runs. +1 I have no idea how we can be making a huge loss on gates of over 20k in League One? We do not have that many high earners left do we?
trousers Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Are we? Obviously there are no publicly visible figures for this, and won't be for some time (private limited companies have more time to submit accounts to Companies House), but my estimation is that we're actually pretty close to break-even (if we're not making a profit), particularly with the attendances we've had this season and the spin-offs from the two cup runs. I think he missed the word 'not' from his opening sentence (?)
Arizona Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Are we? Obviously there are no publicly visible figures for this, and won't be for some time (private limited companies have more time to submit accounts to Companies House), but my estimation is that we're actually pretty close to break-even (if we're not making a profit), particularly with the attendances we've had this season and the spin-offs from the two cup runs. I agree, we can't be doing that badly financially at all. Our average attendance this season is 20,982. That's 3,000 up on last season's average of 17,849. 3,000 people over 23 homes games at say £20 a ticket is an extra £1.4m in itself. Hartlepool have the lowest attendances this season, 3443 being the average. We've take £8m more than them in League gates alone this season, assuming our tickets are the same, which I doubt they are. We've lost Euell, BWP, Skacel, Saganowski and gained Fonte, Lambert, Waigo and Jaidi. John and Rasiak were out on loan last season, so they don't really count. I'd say overall we were about even on the wage bill. Plus there was a 5 game FA Cup run with a sell out against Pompey, which I doubt we'd planned on financially. Then there's the small matter of 6 games in the JPT, including another sell out against MK. I'm not sure if we got any of the cash from tickets for the final, but 45,000 fans at £40 a pop is £1.8m The stadium debt, including interest was about £2m a year (I've heard, don't take that as gospel). That's been wiped out. We didn't go into admin making massive losses last season. It was a matter of tens of thousands I think.
StuRomseySaint Posted 12 May, 2010 Author Posted 12 May, 2010 I agree, we can't be doing that badly financially at all. Our average attendance this season is 20,982. That's 3,000 up on last season's average of 17,849. 3,000 people over 23 homes games at say £20 a ticket is an extra £1.4m in itself. Hartlepool have the lowest attendances this season, 3443 being the average. We've take £8m more than them in League gates alone this season, assuming our tickets are the same, which I doubt they are. We've lost Euell, BWP, Skacel, Saganowski and gained Fonte, Lambert, Waigo and Jaidi. John and Rasiak were out on loan last season, so they don't really count. I'd say overall we were about even on the wage bill. Plus there was a 5 game FA Cup run with a sell out against Pompey, which I doubt we'd planned on financially. Then there's the small matter of 6 games in the JPT, including another sell out against MK. I'm not sure if we got any of the cash from tickets for the final, but 45,000 fans at £40 a pop is £1.8m The stadium debt, including interest was about £2m a year (I've heard, don't take that as gospel). That's been wiped out. We didn't go into admin making massive losses last season. It was a matter of tens of thousands I think. JPT Final we recieved 45% of total gate reciepts. well over £1m You're right, everyone keeps harping on about throwing loads of money at it... that's not true, it wouldn't surprise me if after wages and fees, we are still turning a profit.
Window Cleaner Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 JPT Final we recieved 45% of total gate reciepts. well over £1m You're right, everyone keeps harping on about throwing loads of money at it... that's not true, it wouldn't surprise me if after wages and fees, we are still turning a profit. No we received 45% of the gate receipts after all expenses had been paid, it's not the same thing at all. Perhaps about 450/500 K£
StuRomseySaint Posted 12 May, 2010 Author Posted 12 May, 2010 No we received 45% of the gate receipts after all expenses had been paid, it's not the same thing at all. Perhaps about 450/500 K£ £1.3m Gross based on £40 a ticket... then remember the 'booking fee' which was not a Wembley thing, add on another 25,000 x £3 Expenses... Stewards and minimal policing. I forgot about the expenses but I reckon it will be somewhere between 700k and £1m in Net profit prize money for us. Regardless, it's more non-budgeted money would pay Rickie Lamberts wages, for example.
Window Cleaner Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 £1.3m Gross based on £40 a ticket... then remember the 'booking fee' which was not a Wembley thing, add on another 25,000 x £3 Expenses... Stewards and minimal policing. I forgot about the expenses but I reckon it will be somewhere between 700k and £1m in Net profit prize money for us. Regardless, it's more non-budgeted money would pay Rickie Lamberts wages, for example. The expenses include teams travel arrangements (maximum 2 nights hotel etc) plus I suppose the cost of hiring the Stadium (this is a Football League competition so i guess they have to pay) I saw on Carlisle's site that they expected a 500K "windfall" guess we got about the same, except that we won and had to pay win bonuses
saint1977 Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Excellent posts on here from Shurlock, Benji, Arizona and in particular Corky Morris, which gives an insight into the culture we are looking at. I'm fine with what is happening, Pardew said after the JPT final that NC wanted updates on progress and was pushing for success. I still believe that Pardew will be here in August and barring a poor start, will be here in May 2011 with the League One trophy. Bottom line - this is Markus's money, he has cleared the debts, invested in players and Staplewood (note to the Skates, it is wise to invest in assets other than those that steal toilets from Homebase) and yet financially the club still seems to be well run, which is what happens when you have proper business people in charge. Markus and NC like to be discreet in their transactions, which is what Martin Samuel and his tabloid chums would see if they took their noses out of Harry Redknapp's arse for 5 minutes. This isn't Secure Retirement and the tin pot set up we had before with Old Man Askham still pulling the strings and controlling the biscuit tin which so nearly killed the club. A lot of clubs would swap their position for ours.
djharvey Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Excellent posts on here from Shurlock, Benji, Arizona and in particular Corky Morris, which gives an insight into the culture we are looking at. I'm fine with what is happening, Pardew said after the JPT final that NC wanted updates on progress and was pushing for success. I still believe that Pardew will be here in August and barring a poor start, will be here in May 2011 with the League One trophy. Bottom line - this is Markus's money, he has cleared the debts, invested in players and Staplewood (note to the Skates, it is wise to invest in assets other than those that steal toilets from Homebase) and yet financially the club still seems to be well run, which is what happens when you have proper business people in charge. Markus and NC like to be discreet in their transactions, which is what Martin Samuel and his tabloid chums would see if they took their noses out of Harry Redknapp's arse for 5 minutes. This isn't Secure Retirement and the tin pot set up we had before with Old Man Askham still pulling the strings and controlling the biscuit tin which so nearly killed the club. A lot of clubs would swap their position for ours. Totally Agree! nicely put.
sadoldgit Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Great post by Corky Morris. It's a simple case of pressure from the boss. NC and ML know what they're doing. COYR Really? And between them how much experience do they have in running a football club? Pardew put the points on the board, not these two.
Arizona Posted 12 May, 2010 Posted 12 May, 2010 Really? And between them how much experience do they have in running a football club? Pardew put the points on the board, not these two. Rupert Lowe ran Saints on and off for 13 years. No, I'll stick with these novices thankyou very much.
Thedelldays Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 Really? And between them how much experience do they have in running a football club? Pardew put the points on the board, not these two. Without then we would have had pardew Get behind the new owners ffs
Saint Fan CaM Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 NC was a private banker. I deal with them all the time, indeed spent a decent amount of time with them in Geneva. IMHO they are a certain breed. They are mostly fiercly bright, very conservative & their priority is to look after the primary needs of their clients. I would summarise them as control freaks if I was pushed. They are very conscious of keeping things private & will provide information on a pre-determind & agreed before hand basis. Who are/is NC's client? Is it us the fans or is it ultimately ML? FWIW I think NC is looking after ML's aspirations & objectives. If they are both disappointed they will share that with AP in a very civilised are organised manner. They will expect him to be able to articulate in some detail what has worked out & what has not & indeed what he intends to do to improve things. IMHO they will not fire him on a whim. They will express concern/disapointment with certain things & offer an upcoming period of review (maybe Christmas) for him to deliver on their objectives. By their very nature they are not public figures or will not go out to court publicity. Things will be kept 'off the radar'. They will not be too triumphalist in success & equally not be too aggressive in disappointment. Cards will be held close to their chests & shared when they see fit. Believe me, even though there is frustration with season ticket details & lack of public support for AP there will be a plan being upheld behind the scenes. I think we are getting carried away with a number of little things (some may think they are big things) & that they are conducting their business behind closed doors & simply dont feel the need right now to say anything else. You can come up with as many conspiracy theories as you like, but I aint buying them. If they want to fire AP - he will be the first to hear once the decision has been taken by the executive (NC & ML). IMHO NC was expressing a genuinely held view that we should have made the play-offs when he spoke in March/April. I dont see what is wrong with that. That in itself does not mean AP is going to be fired. Without thinking about NC, ask yourself what your view of a Swiss private banker would be? Would you expect him to be mouthy or loud? Brash, arrogant? From my experience they are far more considered & retiring. Absolutely they can be ruthless, but it normally comes after a period of reflection. I have a client who NC is a client of. They tell me, off the record that he is a ba$t@rd to deal with. All over them, asking questions, keeping them on their toes. In theyre opinion it is not at all pleasant, but they keep taking him back to his agreed objective & then he may moan a bit, but he is back on track. Does anybody remember RL on MOTD after we beat Blackburn talking about how Sturrock was not facing the sack?? What did he do the next day? Fired him. NC would not do that. He has let AP know, publicly that he is expecting more which IMHO is letting AP know that he needs to deliver - if he does not - he will be fired. The time table is the point of question. As I say, this is all my opinion & whilst I dont want AP fired I do think NC/ML have a plan that they wish to execute & they will do all in their power to deliver on it. Wow - post of the season, right here. Well said that man. The key bit I guess is the highlighted passage. I think you meant the timetable from this point on, however perhaps ML/NC's clocks started ticking last summer and they are currently just metaphorically looking at AP tapping their watches to remind him of the time?
alpine_saint Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 Rupert Lowe ran Saints on and off for 13 years. No, I'll stick with these novices thankyou very much. heheheh:)
Goalie66 Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 The fragility of being a supporter !!! Look at the Pompey thread in the Lounge and our unashamed gloating over Pompey's demise. Yet it only takes a non programme to unsettle us to the reality that owners of football clubs are despots. NC is young and wants to impress. Clearly he has made an enormous PR gaff in saying nothing or has he? In business sometimes if you have nothing to say... say nothing. However, in these media intense times by saying nothing the media will write it for you!!
Saint_John Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 If you remember back to the Takeover there was almost NOTHING in the Echo about ML or NC before the Takeover. I have gone back to the Echo reports from the Takeover (July 8th) and have assembled the following :- (Takeover 8th July - ML and NC talk to the Echo) (Tues 7th July) The money behind the deal is believed to be from a relative of Swiss billionaires Willi and Isolde Liebherr... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4479694.Swiss_on_verge_of_formal_takeover_announcement/ (Mon 6th July) The Liebherr Group – one of Switzerland’s largest industrial companies with a turnover of over £8 billion in 2008 .... The company already have links with Southampton as only last month they provided two new cranes for the city’s container terminal in the docks. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4475934.It_would_be_nice_to_tell_Saints_fans_their_club_is_safe__says_Fry/ (Friday 3rd July) Even 4-5 days before the Swiss Takeover the Echo were still taking about 2 other groups, and NOT ML i.e. THE mystery overseas consortium’s hopes of completing a takeover at St Mary’s yesterday were stunned by the Pinnacle group’s return to the scene. The worldwide financial services group were initially confident of announcing a deal had been completed after their lawyers had spent two days negotiating with administrator Mark Fry and creditors. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4472854.Pinnacle_back_in_contention_for_Saints/ (Wed 1st July) Most of the talk was about the other groups the only comment I could find about ML was The Swiss group, however, were also remaining confident of finalising a takeover just three days before administrator Mark Fry’s deadline. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4467677.Potential_foreign_owners_in_late_night_Saints_talks/ (Tues 30th June) Eight Saints articles that day but the only mention of the ML was the following Pinnacle's decision leaves the way open for the mystery overseas consortium to push ahead with a deal, as revealed exclusively in the Daily Echo yesterday. The only competition they will have is from the Swiss backers .. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4466522.Le_Tissier_and_Pinnacle_pull_out_of_bid_for_Saints/ (Mon 29th June) Very little about ML the only comment I could find was :- Fry has said he is talking to a Swiss group and another being pieced together by Dorset businessman Marc Jackson. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4463596.Another_twist_/ I suggest some on here reread the articles from that time and you will realise that ML and NC do NOT talk to the Echo even when they get things wrong, they just go about their business. (Echo Site -> select Archive at the bottom -> Select Date i.e. 7th July 2009 -> Select Saints from the right hand side and then you will get all the articles from that date.)
Matthew Le God Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 Panic over http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2051138,00.html
chrisobee Posted 13 May, 2010 Posted 13 May, 2010 Panic over http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2051138,00.html Ok, next unfounded rumour please
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 14 May, 2010 Posted 14 May, 2010 corky morris's post is spot on IMO. BUT... this isn't Switzerland, and we are not turning up in droves to watch bankers do banking or deisel manufacturers assemble their engines. What NC & ML will sooner or later have to come to terms with is that fans of a club are not the same as people who turn up to the Turner Sims to politely listen to a string quartet, and go quietly home, put on their slippers and listen to Radio 3. Football is about passion, and a soulless product (in its widest sense) isn't at the end of the day what we go for. The football business is rife with speculation, opinion and rumour, that really is very much part of what we all like about it. Otherwise why do any of us waste our time on here? I have a feeling that a social club run by NC would serve soft drinks only, there'd be a black tie dress code... and there'd be a big notice on the wall saying topics of discussion must be approved in advance by the management, and if approved will take place only on Thurdays (when the bar and pool table are closed). I am a little uneasy about why NC/ML really got involved. Is it just another business venture, where little Nicola has been given his head .. "buy my this and I'll show you .. how I can make a return of x% over 5 years"? But what the hell, after the club almost disappearing, maybe that's all that's necessary at the moment. I do think NC is a little disingenuous when he blames Pinnacle for delaying ML's purchase. I can't help thinking they let Pinnacle take their time, already convinced about their failure, to soften up the creditors and the Administrator so NC/ML could get the club at the price they wanted to pay. I think their catchphrase might have been "hurry up and take your time".
LA77 Posted 14 May, 2010 Posted 14 May, 2010 £1.3m Gross based on £40 a ticket... then remember the 'booking fee' which was not a Wembley thing, add on another 25,000 x £3 Expenses... Stewards and minimal policing. I forgot about the expenses but I reckon it will be somewhere between 700k and £1m in Net profit prize money for us. Regardless, it's more non-budgeted money would pay Rickie Lamberts wages, for example. We must've made a massive profit in the megastore with all the merchandise sold. It'd be interesting to find out what we turned over in profit.
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