How do grass root liberals here feel

[Thedelldays]

you have just gave the enemy the keys to number 10..

 

cheers

[bridge too far]

That's a very silly thing to say. They never had the keys in the first place!

[Whitey Grandad]

They have influence and even a little power. What more could they want?

[Thedelldays]

They have influence and even a little power. What more could they want?

PR at its best....

[Whitey Grandad]

PR at its best....

Yes, once every 30 or 40 years they get to have their say.

[SuperMikey]

It's not over yet TDD, although a LibLab pact is looking extremely unlikely at the moment, with Brown probably resigning in the next couple of days. Still think that unless Conservatives agree to the education proposals by the Lib Dems that a coalition won't happen, the Conservatives will form a minority government and we'll have another general election before another year has passed.

[Thedelldays]

It's not over yet TDD, although a LibLab pact is looking extremely unlikely at the moment, with Brown probably resigning in the next couple of days. Still think that unless Conservatives agree to the education proposals by the Lib Dems that a coalition won't happen, the Conservatives will form a minority government and we'll have another general election before another year has passed.

been reported that the tories have conceeded alot on domestic issues...many of those were policies that were not popular at all..

they stood their ground on election reform and anything to do with europe..

 

apparently

[bridge too far]

been reported that the tories have conceeded alot on domestic issues...many of those were policies that were not popular at all..

they stood their ground on election reform and anything to do with europe..

 

apparently

 

That makes me wonder if they'll get the unholy alliance then.

[Thedelldays]

That makes me wonder if they'll get the unholy alliance then.

serious question

 

how would you/liberal democrats feel if at best they got a "review" into election/politics reform..?

[bridge too far]

serious question

 

how would you/liberal democrats feel if at best they got a "review" into election/politics reform..?

 

My gut feeling is that it won't come to that. If the LibDems don't get their way on electoral reform then they won't support DC.

 

But, not being a Liberal, I don't know. Bungle / SuperMikey are the best ones to answer that I reckon.

 

And, bang on cue, here he is!

Edited 11 May, 2010 by bridge too far
SuperMikey

[SuperMikey]

been reported that the tories have conceeded alot on domestic issues...many of those were policies that were not popular at all..

they stood their ground on election reform and anything to do with europe..

 

apparently

 

They don't seem to realise that the Lib Dems won't budge without their terms being agreed to. The Libs have nothing to lose from this really, as they'd only have a small amount of power and influence in a coalition, so they can afford to be stubborn. I'd read that it's the educational reform that's stalling talks between them at the moment, and I can see a combination of that and the PR causing a rift between the parties which will make a coalition almost impossible.

 

Cameron will form a minority government without the Lib Dems and we'll have another general election before this time next year.

[SuperMikey]

serious question

 

how would you/liberal democrats feel if at best they got a "review" into election/politics reform..?

 

I'll take that one BTF, if you don't mind!

 

I don't think they'd yield that easily if Labour were offering actual reform. I'm not even sure that the Lib Dems are entirely motivated to form with the Conservatives, but they're doing it because they'd said (or Clegg said) that they'd talk with the side who got the most votes, which is only fair. I still think they're holding out for a Labour pact though, even if it is looking very unlikely.

[scotty]

Yes, once every 30 or 40 years they get to have their say.

 

Look what happened to thorpe he had plenty of time to have his say in court, I wonder who'll blow it for them this time. My moneys on chris huhne doing a kennedy, (charlie or sarah, take your pick,) I heard him on R5 in the election run-up, he sounded plssed as a fart at 9.30 am

[bridge too far]

I'm beginning to feel that Clegg will come out of this with absolutely nothing.

[solentstars]

you have just gave the enemy the keys to number 10..

 

cheers

 

looks like your fighting yesterdays wars,good result from a hung parliament and happy to see a government with over 51% of the vote in charge :biggrin:lets hope its the end of minority governments ignoring the wishes of the majority and the start of grown up politics.

[bridge too far]

I might just have to eat my words. Beeb just reporting that a deal is imminent.

 

Tories won't budge beyond a referendum on AV so it looks like Clegg has sold his soul to the devil.

[solentstars]

They don't seem to realise that the Lib Dems won't budge without their terms being agreed to. The Libs have nothing to lose from this really, as they'd only have a small amount of power and influence in a coalition, so they can afford to be stubborn. I'd read that it's the educational reform that's stalling talks between them at the moment, and I can see a combination of that and the PR causing a rift between the parties which will make a coalition almost impossible.

 

Cameron will form a minority government without the Lib Dems and we'll have another general election before this time next year.

and the result would be no different apart from labour with a new leader performing better.

[Joensuu]

serious question

 

how would you/liberal democrats feel if at best they got a "review" into election/politics reform..?

 

Disgusted.

[SuperMikey]

and the result would be no different apart from labour with a new leader performing better.

 

Yep. Voters are very fickle, if something doesn't have an instant effect, they don't like it. Luckily for Labour over the past 13 years, they've spent a lot of money (hence the recession) which has produced visible effects on the state of the country and the welfare of us, the British people. Otherwise, I think they might have been in trouble a lot sooner than they were.

 

A minority Conservative government will be pretty useless, so you can expect a swing towards Labour with Miliband/Balls/Johnson/Whoever as the leader and perhaps another small swing for Lib Dems, if the memory of the last 13 years is still fresh in people's minds. It's true what people say, despite all the democratic freedoms we have and the numerous parties you can vote for, it's still a two horse race. Hopefully we can expect a bit more of an even playing field next time the vote comes around.

[Huntingdon]

I voted Lib Dem & feel Clegg has to go with the Tories

 

He was adamant that the party with most votes & seats should have the upper hand. If he backtracked on that to form a Government with a very unpopular Labour party & the Scottish / Welsh nationalists, whilst England's political map is a sea of blue, it would seriously damage Lib Dems image. Also, it would look hypocritical to claim PR is the way forward, but ignore the fact England wanting a Tory Government

 

Looking further ahead too, Lib Dems have solid support in Tory seats, they are the second party. So, too side with Labour would be a huge mistake because it would tell everyone in those seats that a vote for Lib Dem is actually a vote for Labour

[bridge too far]

I voted Lib Dem & feel Clegg has to go with the Tories

 

He was adamant that the party with most votes & seats should have the upper hand. If he backtracked on that to form a Government with a very unpopular Labour party & the Scottish / Welsh nationalists, whilst England's political map is a sea of blue, it would seriously damage Lib Dems image. Also, it would look hypocritical to claim PR is the way forward, but ignore the fact England wanting a Tory Government

 

Looking further ahead too, Lib Dems have solid support in Tory seats, they are the second party. So, too side with Labour would be a huge mistake because it would tell everyone in those seats that a vote for Lib Dem is actually a vote for Labour

 

Got to disagree with this bit. More than 60% of the electorate DIDN'T want a Tory government.

[Thedelldays]

Got to disagree with this bit. More than 60% of the electorate DIDN'T want a Tory government.

and i can tell you...a large amount did not want the libdems to have so much power that they do right now

[Whitey Grandad]

Got to disagree with this bit. More than 60% of the electorate DIDN'T want a Tory government.

In England? And how are we going to measure the desires of the electorate? Shall we have a vote on it?

Edited 11 May, 2010 by Whitey Grandad
tpyo

[bridge too far]

and i can tell you...a large amount did not want the libdems to have so much power that they do right now

 

Yes I agree with you. I really don't know what the answer is.

 

FPTP isn't satisfactory but PR will often deliver an unnatural balance of power.

[solentstars]

Yep. Voters are very fickle, if something doesn't have an instant effect, they don't like it. Luckily for Labour over the past 13 years, they've spent a lot of money (hence the recession) which has produced visible effects on the state of the country and the welfare of us, the British people. Otherwise, I think they might have been in trouble a lot sooner than they were.

 

A minority Conservative government will be pretty useless, so you can expect a swing towards Labour with Miliband/Balls/Johnson/Whoever as the leader and perhaps another small swing for Lib Dems, if the memory of the last 13 years is still fresh in people's minds. It's true what people say, despite all the democratic freedoms we have and the numerous parties you can vote for, it's still a two horse race. Hopefully we can expect a bit more of an even playing field next time the vote comes around.

sorry the recession was created in wall street with its casino economy which is worldwide,i just think labour was in power for to long.

[bridge too far]

In England? And how are we goning to measure the desires of the electorate? Shall we have a vote on it?

 

It was a UK election, in case you hadn't noticed

[Joensuu]

In England? And how are we goning to measure the desires of the electorate? Shall we have a vote on it?

Not a bad idea. Or should be run another FPTP sham?

[Thedelldays]

Yes I agree with you. I really don't know what the answer is.

 

FPTP isn't satisfactory but PR will often deliver an unnatural balance of power.

 

 

we are seeing PR right now...deals and alliances being done that (probably) a very large amount of people did not vote for..

 

what do you reckon the libdem vote would have been if they announced through the election and on the TV debates that they would essentially, give the Tory party the backing to put cameron in at No.10..

 

?????

[Whitey Grandad]

sorry the recession was created in wall street with its casino economy which is worldwide,i just think labour was in power for to long.

It was down to Clinton who 'encouraged' the mortgage banks to lend to people who couldn't afford the repayments. The problem for us is that Brown had spent and borrowed so much that we cannot ride out the economic storms.

[Whitey Grandad]

It was a UK election, in case you hadn't noticed

Then why have we in England been run by the Scottish mafia for the last 13 years?Both Prime Ministers and every important cabinet post has been a Scot.

[bridge too far]

we are seeing PR right now...deals and alliances being done that (probably) a very large amount of people did not vote for..

 

what do you reckon the libdem vote would have been if they announced through the election and on the TV debates that they would essentially, give the Tory party the backing to put cameron in at No.10..

 

?????

 

I think, in all honesty, that the LibDem vote would have collapsed and the Tories would have achieved a working majority if such an announcement had been forthcoming.

 

But equally, had they announced that they would support Labour, then their vote would still have collapsed but Labour might have done better.

 

Still, they do say we get the government we deserve.

[Thedelldays]

I think, in all honesty, that the LibDem vote would have collapsed and the Tories would have achieved a working majority if such an announcement had been forthcoming.

 

But equally, had they announced that they would support Labour, then their vote would still have collapsed but Labour might have done better.

 

Still, they do say we get the government we deserve.

agree....but this is PR..is this what people want..?

 

voting for something then getting some of that or even the ideals of what you are voting for thrown in your face..?

 

this is the liberals go at getting hold of some power..

[Gingeletiss]

Got to disagree with this bit. More than 60% of the electorate DIDN'T want a Tory government.

 

Shock horror from BTF.

 

Take out the Scottish/Welsh vote, and you'll find that the majority DID want a Tory goverment.

[Joensuu]

Shock horror from BTF.

 

Take out the Scottish/Welsh vote, and you'll find that the majority DID want a Tory goverment.

 

Wrong, only 39.6% did.

[bridge too far]

Shock horror from BTF.

 

Take out the Scottish/Welsh vote, and you'll find that the majority DID want a Tory goverment.

 

Fatuous argument IMO. Take out the English vote and you'll find that the majority didn't want a Tory government.

 

Forgive me for repeating myself - it was A UK ELECTION.

[CB Saint]

Got to disagree with this bit. More than 60% of the electorate DIDN'T want a Tory government.

 

Agreed, but...

 

71% didn't want labour, and

77% didn't want liberal

 

and no one voted for a coalition.

 

Therefore 100% of the electorate didn't want the outcome they wanted - you can't get fairer than that!

[Huntingdon]

Fatuous argument IMO. Take out the English vote and you'll find that the majority didn't want a Tory government.

 

Forgive me for repeating myself - it was A UK ELECTION.

 

I'm sorry BTF, but I have to disagree with you

 

I originally said that England wanted a Tory Government.

We can chase our tails quoting % figures, because on that argument there's never been an elected Government that we all wanted

 

If you take away Scottish & Welsh seats, the Tories have an overwhelming majority in England

[Gingeletiss]

Fatuous argument IMO. Take out the English vote and you'll find that the majority didn't want a Tory government.

 

Forgive me for repeating myself - it was A UK ELECTION.

 

That's as maybe, but I stand by what I said. We in England, have no say whatsoiever over their 'assemblys', which are one short step from devolution. So how they can have a say in the house of Westminster. As has been pointed out already, two Scottish Pm's in a row, more tax payers money spent per person in both Scotland and Wales, how is that right?

[bridge too far]

Agreed, but...

 

71% didn't want labour, and

77% didn't want liberal

 

and no one voted for a coalition.

 

Therefore 100% of the electorate didn't want the outcome they wanted - you can't get fairer than that!

 

Liking it!

[bridge too far]

I'm sorry BTF, but I have to disagree with you

 

I originally said that England wanted a Tory Government.

We can chase our tails quoting % figures, because on that argument there's never been an elected Government that we all wanted

 

If you take away Scottish & Welsh seats, the Tories have an overwhelming majority in England

 

And I've not disagreed with that. I'm just pointing out that it was a UK election and that's what will drive the eventual outcome, whatever it may be.

[solentstars]

It was down to Clinton who 'encouraged' the mortgage banks to lend to people who couldn't afford the repayments. The problem for us is that Brown had spent and borrowed so much that we cannot ride out the economic storms.

i think you will find out it happened under a bush government who gave big business whatever they wanted.

[Wilko]

However unpalatable the Tories are on the face of it, I guess differences have to be put aside for the good of the country. You never know, their nastier policies may even be blunted by this deal.

 

Wait and see.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Then why have we in England been run by the Scottish mafia for the last 13 years?Both Prime Ministers and every important cabinet post has been a Scot.

 

And the surname Cameron is from where?

[Whitey Grandad]

And the surname Cameron is from where?

Nameist! I believe he was born in London.

[Thedelldays]

looks like a full coalition is very likely

 

clegg to be deputy PM

[bridge too far]

And Tony Blair, although born in Scotland, has Irish ancestors, his family spent some time in Australia and he grew up in Durham.

 

Sort of militates against the 'Scottish PM' doesn't it

 

Alex Douglas-Home was scottish IIRC. Lloyd George was Welsh.

 

So we have a number of PMs representative of the UK - and it is a UK parliament.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Clegg you back stabbing peice of ****iing scum! As long as you're alright Clegg with your DPM position, bugger the rest of us eh?

[OldNick]

Clegg you back stabbing peice of ****iing scum! As long as you're alright Clegg with your DPM position, bugger the rest of us eh?

He has done what is right for his party, as they will get a different voting system.

Longterm that is good for his party.

[Gingeletiss]

He has done what is right for his party, as they will get a different voting system.

Longterm that is good for his party.

 

Will he? who told you that nick? the way I see it, the country will decide via referendum, and I suspect it will be rejected by a majority vote.

[dune]

Clegg you back stabbing peice of ****iing scum! As long as you're alright Clegg with your DPM position, bugger the rest of us eh?

 

he he he, nothing beats the amusement of a leftie rant.