Breaking News - Brown to resign, Labour entering negotiations with the Liberals

[dune]

yep and it would be great to end the two party love in,poor old stanley his facist tendencies are started to show.

 

I have funny feeling there's going to be some dummy spitting from the lefties soon if what william Hague has announced means the Liberals are on board. he he he, you lost.

[Saint In Exile]

Are you suggesting that Germany's economic prowess is due to them having PR?

 

I take it you're suggesting it's not.... By that token neither is their economic prowess ruined by having PR!!

[badgerx16]

Thatcher went which triggered a leadership election.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_1990

 

Therefore John Major was an elected Prime Minister.

 

Brown was given the job and it was a total stich up between Blair and Brown. Had the Labour party voted for and got Brown, he would have had more legitimacy. As it was, we all got stuck with Gordon the Moron by default. Now he has gone, I hope the Labour party go through the process of choosing a leader rather than handing the batton on to Medolsomes new bum boy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_%28UK%29_leadership_election,_2007

 

It's not his fault if nobody stood against him

[bridge too far]

Thatcher went which triggered a leadership election.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_1990

 

Therefore John Major was an elected Prime Minister.

 

Brown was given the job and it was a total stich up between Blair and Brown. Had the Labour party voted for and got Brown, he would have had more legitimacy. As it was, we all got stuck with Gordon the Moron by default. Now he has gone, I hope the Labour party go through the process of choosing a leader rather than handing the batton on to Medolsomes new bum boy.

 

The constitution of the Labour Party requires that the leader is elected by all the membership. I can remember voting after John Smith's untimely death.

 

However, to be able to choose a leader the membership has to have a choice of two or more candidates. There were no other candidates up for election when Blair resigned.

 

So - unless there are no other candidates available to replace GB, there WILL be an election for leader.

 

Oh and it's 'baton', not batton BTW

[aintforever]

Surely Brown resigning means Cameron has to be PM?

 

How can it be right that some Labour nobody or Clegg gets the job, it was a clear choice between Brown, Cameron and Clegg and Cameron won most votes, it's quite simple.

[badgerx16]

I have funny feeling there's going to be some dummy spitting from the lefties soon if what william Hague has announced means the Liberals are on board. he he he, you lost.

Let's wait and see how much of the Tory right-wing objects, and where else the LDs can water things down, before you start crowing. There was a vox-pop from a Tory councillor on the radio who said the grass roots of the party would never tolerate the Liberals and their 'looney policies'.

 

Oh, btw, you didn't win

[bridge too far]

Surely Brown resigning means Cameron has to be PM?

 

How can it be right that some Labour nobody or Clegg gets the job, it was a clear choice between Brown, Cameron and Clegg and Cameron won most votes, it's quite simple.

 

No - read back a bit.

 

It was a clear choice between Labour, Conservative and LibDem.

 

We vote for MPs / parties - not party leaders.

[dune]

Let's wait and see how much of the Tory right-wing objects, and where else the LDs can water things down, before you start crowing. There was a vox-pop from a Tory councillor on the radio who said the grass roots of the party would never tolerate the Liberals and their 'looney policies'.

 

Oh, btw, you didn't win

 

I know but it's still funny as f**k knowing how divvy the LibDems rank and file are going to go when they realise they've been stitched up on voting reform.

 

The Tories are gonna stitch the Liberals up big time IMO.

[Saint In Exile]

I have funny feeling there's going to be some dummy spitting from the lefties soon if what william Hague has announced means the Liberals are on board. he he he, you lost.

 

He's announced that the Conservatives would offer a referrundum on AV. AV is NOT PR.

 

The alternative vote is not actually a proportional system, but a majoritarian system. It looks most similar to the current electoral system.

• Whilst it does ensure than the successful candidate is supported by a majority of his or her constituents, it does not give proportionality to parties or other bodies of opinion, in parliament. Research by Democratic Audit in 1997 showed that the results could actually be even more distorting than under First-Past-The-Post.
  
• It also does very little to give a voice to those who have been traditionally under-represented in parliament.
  
• There is no transfer of powers from party authority to the voters, and it does not produce a proportional parliament.
  

http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/votingsystems/systems2.htm#AV

[badgerx16]

Surely Brown resigning means Cameron has to be PM?

 

How can it be right that some Labour nobody or Clegg gets the job, it was a clear choice between Brown, Cameron and Clegg and Cameron won most votes, it's quite simple.

I think that he hasn't actually resigned yet, his statement said that he would stay to try to build the Lab/Lib coalition, and then stand down in time for a new Labour leader to take power by the time of the party conference in October,- so therefore he is still PM for now.

[Johnny Bognor]

The constitution of the Labour Party requires that the leader is elected by all the membership. I can remember voting after John Smith's untimely death.

 

However, to be able to choose a leader the membership has to have a choice of two or more candidates. There were no other candidates up for election when Blair resigned.

 

So - unless there are no other candidates available to replace GB, there WILL be an election for leader.

 

Oh and it's 'baton', not batton BTW

 

 

Hi BTF,

 

Thank you for the education lesson.

 

I hope you enjoyed your holidays. You were sadly missed on the run up to the election, it was fun.

 

Now we're really in the ****, I'm not laughing anymore.

 

Regards

JB

 

PS Doesn't it make you wonder why no-one would stand?????

[aintforever]

No - read back a bit.

 

It was a clear choice between Labour, Conservative and LibDem.

 

We vote for MPs / parties - not party leaders.

 

We voted for 3 parties with 3 leaders.

[bridge too far]

We voted for 3 parties with 3 leaders.

 

Well, I don't know how you managed to do that

 

I voted for Mr ......., the Labour Party candidate in my constituency.

 

Gordon Brown's name wasn't on my ballot paper FYI and I only had one vote, not three.

[aintforever]

Well, I don't know how you managed to do that

 

I voted for Mr ......., the Labour Party candidate in my constituency.

 

Gordon Brown's name wasn't on my ballot paper FYI and I only had one vote, not three.

 

You know as well as I do that many people vote for who they want as PM, as well as what party they want or who the local MP is.

 

If we have another unelected PM, particularly from a party that came second by MILES it will make a mockery of our democracy.

[Whitey Grandad]

It won't - the Speaker is neutral:

 

http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/principal/speaker/

 

But it takes one voting MP away from one of the parties.

[View From The Top]

Surely Brown resigning means Cameron has to be PM?

 

How can it be right that some Labour nobody or Clegg gets the job, it was a clear choice between Brown, Cameron and Clegg and Cameron won most votes, it's quite simple.

 

I suggest you read up on how our political system works.

[bridge too far]

But it takes one voting MP away from one of the parties.

 

I'm not sure that it does. I don't think the Speaker's political affiliation is considered when totting up the number of seats won by each party.

 

But I'm not absolutely sure

[View From The Top]

I know but it's still funny as f**k knowing how divvy the LibDems rank and file are going to go when they realise they've been stitched up on voting reform.

 

The Tories are gonna stitch the Liberals up big time IMO.

 

You record for being right is good as Browns valuation of gold.

[Saint In Exile]

I'm not sure that it does. I don't think the Speaker's political affiliation is considered when totting up the number of seats won by each party.

 

But I'm not absolutely sure

 

Speakers must be politically impartial. Therefore, on election the new Speaker must resign from their political party and remain separate from political issues even in retirement. However, the Speaker will deal with their constituents' problems like a normal MP

[Whitey Grandad]

Speakers must be politically impartial. Therefore, on election the new Speaker must resign from their political party and remain separate from political issues even in retirement. However, the Speaker will deal with their constituents' problems like a normal MP

 

So, from which party will the next Speaker come?

[View From The Top]

So, from which party will the next Speaker come?

 

He's a tory. MP for somewhere in Bucks. Married to some Labour lass.

[Whitey Grandad]

He's a tory. MP for somewhere in Bucks. Married to some Labour lass.

 

He was. Don't they have to elect a new one for each parliament?

 

Edit: yes they do but John Bercow is expected to be re-elected which leaves the Conservatives down by 1.

[bridge too far]

He's a tory. MP for somewhere in Bucks. Married to some Labour lass.

 

John Bercow (sp?). He's the MP for Buckingham and was unsuccessfullly challenged in this election by Nigel Farage.

 

He'll stay as Speaker until he retires or dies or is forced out (as the last Speaker was). His wife Sally is a dyed-in-the-wool Labour supporter.

 

Edit Just checked and he has to be elected at the start of every Parliament. It's unlikely he'll be opposed though.

Edited 10 May, 2010 by bridge too far

[Saint In Exile]

He's a tory. MP for somewhere in Bucks. Married to some Labour lass.

 

He was a Tory before being elected Speaker. He now stands for election as an independent candidate. Also, none of the 3 main parties put up a candidate against Bercow.

[bridge too far]

He was. Don't they have to elect a new one for each parliament?

 

Edit: yes they do but John Bercow is expected to be re-elected which leaves the Conservatives down by 1.

 

They do now, apparently:

 

"The election of a Speaker takes place at the beginning of every Parliament and every time a Speaker steps down from the post. The timetable and procedure for the election of a Speaker are set out in Standing Orders 1, 1A and 1B. Standing order 1A has been used before in the re-election of the Speaker in 2001 and 2005, but this is the first time the system of exhaustive secret ballot introduced in 2001 and set out in Standing Order No. 1B will have been used to elect a new Speaker."

 

http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/principal/speaker/

[Whitey Grandad]

He was a Tory before being elected Speaker. He now stands for election as an independent candidate. Also, none of the 3 main parties put up a candidate against Bercow.

 

Does that mean that he has not been included in the figures?

[solentstars]

I have funny feeling there's going to be some dummy spitting from the lefties soon if what william Hague has announced means the Liberals are on board. he he he, you lost.

i agree i still think it will be a lib /con in the end but its nice to see the major partys selling their souls for power.

great having a hung parliment.

[bridge too far]

Does that mean that he has not been included in the figures?

 

On reflection, I'm not sure now. He stood in the election as 'Speaker' although on the BBC election map, his constituency is coloured blue.

 

So I'm not sure whether he counts in the 306 Conservative seats.

[Saint In Exile]

Does that mean that he has not been included in the figures?

 

He'll be included in the Other figures.

[Whitey Grandad]

He'll be included in the Other figures.

 

Ta. Not very dignified, is it, being called 'other'?

[pedg]

On reflection, I'm not sure now. He stood in the election as 'Speaker' although on the BBC election map, his constituency is coloured blue.

 

I thought it was a purple colour? It was I am sure when the result was announced.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Can dune stop spouting complete rubbish in this thread, please?

 

 

But its better than having the Tories govern eh?

 

Yes! :smt038

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Rubbish, do you really think the voting public would sit by and allow Britain to be ruled permanently by a commie left wing dictatorship?

 

There would be a left wing block and a right wing block.

 

Have you thought that maybe 63% of the voters didn't want a rabid right wing dictatorship but would prefer government by concensus? Of the people, for the people, by the people?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It could work, but PR would deliver hardline politics and each successive change of govt would be all about undoing what the last lot did.

 

As it often is under the current system?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

And that's how you justified your vote for UKIP you nutter! You wanted a more right wing Tory party! Or do you now disagree with yourself (not for the first time).

 

Ahaaa! Stanley isn't Dune and Dune isn't Stanley!

 

ISP check please mods. You must have it on record?

Edited 10 May, 2010 by EastleighSoulBoy
As if I'd believe that!

[Saint in Paradise]

John Bercow (sp?). He's the MP for Buckingham and was unsuccessfullly challenged in this election by Nigel Farage.

 

His wife Sally is a dyed-in-the-wool Labour supporter.

 

Edit Just checked and he has to be elected at the start of every Parliament. It's unlikely he'll be opposed though.

 

 

Ah Ha that being the case then he better side with Labour or else :D

[Saint George]

Have you thought that maybe 63% of the voters didn't want a rabid right wing dictatorship but would prefer government by concensus? Of the people, for the people, by the people?

 

In Britain?.....Fat chance of that.....Can't think of a Democratic Government that's further removed from the 'will of the people' than the current UK set up...Both Central 'and' Local....Blair destroyed the the 'honor' system and Gordie's doing a Great job of making sure it's well and truly dead and buried.

 

Besides, Westminster's hands are pretty much tied these days......The real power is shared between the unelected British Quangos, 'and' the unelected Brussels Quangos.

 

Basically you'll do what they tell ya and like it....and fraid to say there ain't a damned thing you can do about it.

[Saint George]

Going to be interesting to watch the 'fall out' in the markets tomorrow from this little debacle, Seat belts on nice and tight folks...........So how low can it go?

 

Hope all you 'anyone but the Tory's' think it was all worth while

 

 

 

[pedg]

Going to be interesting to watch the 'fall out' in the markets tomorrow from this little debacle, Seat belts on nice and tight folks...........So how low can it go?

 

Hope all you 'anyone but the Tory's' think it was all worth while

 

 

 

 

At the moment the FTSE is down 1.3%, but then again almost all the markets across europe are down, for example the Madrid ibex index is down 2.4%. Looks like a bit of morning after the night before/profit taking on the rises yesterday from the euro rescue announcement than the beginning of Armageddon.

 

oh and the pound has fallen 0.07% against the dollar...

[CB Saint]

I can see the Lab - Lib coalition failing to get past the first hurdle it comes to i.e. get AV / PR through.

 

The Conservative will vote enmass against it so 306 Nays. Add to that there are a large number of labour MPs who are "avowedly" against PR according to Tessa Jowell. The Tories only need 20 of those to vote against and the coalition will fall apart as the central requirement of the Libs would have failed.

[View From The Top]

Within 48hrs we will have a Con/Lib coalition with Cable in No11.

 

It gives stability, stops the rabid right and allows Labour to rebuild in opposition.

 

All, of course, IMHO.

[trousers]

 

Does that mean that he has not been included in the figures?

 

He can't vote so one way or the t'other it's a chisel off the Tory majority.

 

No wonder mandleson and co were happy to see a safe Tory seat 'lost' when they voted for the speakers position last year...not that I'm saying they were scheming and manipulative of course...

[pedg]

He can't vote so one way or the t'other it's a chisel off the Tory majority.

 

No wonder mandleson and co were happy to see a safe Tory seat 'lost' when they voted for the speakers position last year...not that I'm saying they were scheming and manipulative of course...

 

I was under the impression that he could vote, but only to resolve a tie.

[GenevaSaint]

Within 48hrs we will have a Con/Lib coalition with Cable in No11.

 

It gives stability, stops the rabid right and allows Labour to rebuild in opposition.

 

All, of course, IMHO.

 

Quite happily settle for that.

[TopGun]

You know as well as I do that many people vote for who they want as PM, as well as what party they want or who the local MP is.

 

If we have another unelected PM, particularly from a party that came second by MILES it will make a mockery of our democracy.

 

FFS, will people get a grip and realise we vote for parties, not PMs... The PM is not a president.

 

JB is contorting arguments as Major was chosen by his party as was Brown in that nobody opposed him in the Labour Party.

 

We vote for the party and the party chooses its leader. That's it. It's bloody simple to understand really.

 

People like Hague are just stirring this point up for fools to repeat verbatim.

Edited 11 May, 2010 by TopGun

[badgerx16]

FFS, will people get a grip and realise we vote for parties, not PMs... The PM is not a president.

 

JB is contorting arguments as Major was chosen by his party as was Brown in that nobody opposed him in the Labour Party.

 

We vote for the party and the party chooses its leader. That's it. It's bloody simple to understand really.

You could add Alec Douglas-Home to the list of 'unelected' Tory PMs - it really is a fatuous argument, born of right-wing obsession.

[Johnny Bognor]

JB is contorting arguments as Major was chosen by his party as was Brown in that nobody opposed him in the Labour Party.

 

Brown was not chosen, don't distort the facts. In order to have a choice, it means you have to have more than one option. Don't you ever wonder why out of 350+ MPs not one would stand? It's because it was a stitch up and to pretend otherwise is misleading.

 

That's like me having a 100m sprint in the car park and declaring myself the fastest person in the office.

 

As it was, Major didn't put himself forward in the first round of voting, and only entered the race when Mrs T didn't get enough votes and withdrew. He then had to beat Tarzan and Douglas Hurd. He had to compete for and subsequently won the right to be PM.

 

Brown was given the job, he was not chosen. Had he been chosen, he would have had more legitimacy (and possibly more support from his own MPs).

[TopGun]

Brown was not chosen, don't distort the facts. In order to have a choice, it means you have to have more than one option. Don't you ever wonder why out of 350+ MPs not one would stand? It's because it was a stitch up and to pretend otherwise is misleading.

 

That's like me having a 100m sprint in the car park and declaring myself the fastest person in the office.

 

As it was, Major didn't put himself forward in the first round of voting, and only entered the race when Mrs T didn't get enough votes and withdrew. He then had to beat Tarzan and Douglas Hurd. He had to compete for and subsequently won the right to be PM.

 

Brown was given the job, he was not chosen. Had he been chosen, he would have had more legitimacy (and possibly more support from his own MPs).

 

So it would make all the difference to you JB had a candidate stood against GB and got walloped anyway (like John Redwood in 1995)? The reason nobody stood against Brown was because there was clear concensus in the Parliamentary Labour Party at the time.

 

And you clearly don't understand that we vote for parties in this country not leaders so your point is pretty irrelevant. Major won the right to be leader of the Tory Party, which was not voted for by the public. So his credentials are no better than Brown's if you want to pursue your pointless line of argument.

Edited 11 May, 2010 by TopGun

[Lord Duckhunter]

Gordon Brown has never been elected by any English person, MP or otherwise. He is scared of democratic elections.He bottled taking on Blair after John Smith's death, destroyed any opposition in the Labour Party, and delayed going to the Country until as late as possible. He's a typical Scottish Labour member, he thinks he has an automatic right to govern and tell people how to behave.

[Andyb1]

FFS, will people get a grip and realise we vote for parties, not PMs... The PM is not a president.

 

JB is contorting arguments as Major was chosen by his party as was Brown in that nobody opposed him in the Labour Party.

 

We vote for the party and the party chooses its leader. That's it. It's bloody simple to understand really.

 

People like Hague are just stirring this point up for fools to repeat verbatim.

 

That's cleary not the case these days. I think you probably need to get a grip with the reality of the world today.