Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 no, what cost the Torys was they couldnt take enough seats from the already failed labour. shows what people really think about the lot of them. Fair comment.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 As it says on the tin. Brown has said he'll resign and a new Labour Leader will be in place before the September conference, and that his grubby party is entering negotiations with the Liberals. The upshot would be the unlected Prime Minister relinquishing power to another unlected Prime Minister. No doubt some will say we live in a parliamentary democracy and not a presidential democracy, but it's disgusting imo. Oh dear! Brown won his seat? Then he's elected. End of whinge. Grubby? for entering into discussions with the Lib Dems? That makes the Tories and Lib Dems grubby also. It's not going how you wanted it to Stanley and you're throwing your toys out of the pram. P.S. It's hardly going the way I want it to either!
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Question is: who's gonna take Gordon Brown's job as leader of the Labour Party? Mandy? Nah. Couldn't ever happen. Could it? Miliband or Johnson I would have thought.
revolution saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 It seems strange to me how desperate the Tories on here are so eager for the Liberals to do a deal with the Conservative party. Before the election you were telling us how different they were and Dune you were even castigating people who could switch between them (ironically quoting Churchill at one point). You were right - the Tories and Liberals don't have much in common so a pact would probably fail earlier than a Lib/Lab one. The Liberals don't "owe" the country - they owe their supporters to fulfill their policies the best way they can. Oh and for anyone who says this is good news for the Tories in the long run - remember we'll probably have PR by the time of the next election - you hate that don't you?
Shandy_Top_89 Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 I still believe that Clegg only has two choices: 1) Join a Conservative coalition but with no PR deal. 2) Allow the Conservatives to form a minority government. Option 2) is still the most likely. It's completly and utterly unthinkable that he'll form a Lib-Lab pact. But if he does it'll send a clear message to the country that he cares nothing for the will of the people, and he cares nothing for the economy, but that all he cares about is the voting system and his own party. Problem there is no real will of the people. Reversing the figures 63% of the country dont want a conservative government. A lab-lib government would be also be incredibly unpopular, not commanding an overall majority. Most Conservative and Lib Dem supporters do not favour a coalition. Favoured option would probably be a Conservative majority with Lib Dem backing in return for electoral reform. However as said before this goes against 67% of the electorate, and a minority government wouldnt last more than a year. I think its clear that whatever happens huge portions of the country will be uncomfortable with events, no matter what the outcome is. The only thing this election has confirmed is that we have a broken electoral system that doesnt allow the public an equal vote. However life without a majority government is difficult. Noone has won, if anything the biggest result of the election is the damning indictment of the state of British politics. *rant done
Wade Garrett Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 I think a David Miliband led Labour Party, with James Purnell as his right-hand man, would win a majority at the next election. Until then, the right thing democratically would be either a Conservative administration supported by the Liberals, or a Tory minority government. It doesn't look to me like the Tories and Liberals can do a deal.
hypochondriac Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 15 million voted for Lab + Lib only 10 million for the Tories Seems a very legitimate Coalition With a bit of luck there will never ever be a Tory Majority What about the people who voted labour but hated the liberals? And vice versa?
Wade Garrett Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Problem there is no real will of the people. Reversing the figures 63% of the country dont want a conservative government. A lab-lib government would be also be incredibly unpopular, not commanding an overall majority. Most Conservative and Lib Dem supporters do not favour a coalition. Favoured option would probably be a Conservative majority with Lib Dem backing in return for electoral reform. However as said before this goes against 67% of the electorate, and a minority government wouldnt last more than a year. I think its clear that whatever happens huge portions of the country will be uncomfortable with events, no matter what the outcome is. The only thing this election has confirmed is that we have a broken electoral system that doesnt allow the public an equal vote. However life without a majority government is difficult. Noone has won, if anything the biggest result of the election is the damning indictment of the state of British politics. *rant done The argument against yours of our 'broken electoral system' is that PR is unlikely to ever give any one party a goverment majority.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 Oh dear! Brown won his seat? Then he's elected. End of whinge. Grubby? for entering into discussions with the Lib Dems? That makes the Tories and Lib Dems grubby also. It's not going how you wanted it to Stanley and you're throwing your toys out of the pram. P.S. It's hardly going the way I want it to either! The Conservatives should form the next government, either as a minority or as part of a Lib-Con coalition, because they have the most votes and the most seats so they have the mandate. I'm not spitting my dummy out just because i despise Labour and the Liberals for the simple reason that a Lib-Lab pact would be good for the Tories at the next election because even with dastardly tactical voters, seats such as Eastleigh would turn blue in disgust, but because a Lib-Lab pact would be a minority coalition and therefore a very weak government. Do you fancy another run on the pound and an IMF bailout?
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 It seems strange to me how desperate the Tories on here are so eager for the Liberals to do a deal with the Conservative party. Before the election you were telling us how different they were and Dune you were even castigating people who could switch between them (ironically quoting Churchill at one point). You were right - the Tories and Liberals don't have much in common so a pact would probably fail earlier than a Lib/Lab one. The Liberals don't "owe" the country - they owe their supporters to fulfill their policies the best way they can. Oh and for anyone who says this is good news for the Tories in the long run - remember we'll probably have PR by the time of the next election - you hate that don't you? Yup, PR at the next election and Stanley knows that's the end of the two party system. A system which suited both left and right far more than PR will. No wonder the teddy has come flying out of the pram.
Shandy_Top_89 Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Problem there is no real will of the people. Reversing the figures 63% of the country dont want a conservative government. A lab-lib government would be also be incredibly unpopular, not commanding an overall majority. Most Conservative and Lib Dem supporters do not favour a coalition. Favoured option would probably be a Conservative majority with Lib Dem backing in return for electoral reform. However as said before this goes against 67% of the electorate, and a minority government wouldnt last more than a year. I think its clear that whatever happens huge portions of the country will be uncomfortable with events, no matter what the outcome is. The only thing this election has confirmed is that we have a broken electoral system that doesnt allow the public an equal vote. However life without a majority government is difficult. Noone has won, if anything the biggest result of the election is the damning indictment of the state of British politics. *rant done Balls..... i always muck my posts up. *replace 67% with 63% in 5th line. And before people point out that the cons-lib would provide 60% of the electorate, many conservatives and liberals dont want a pact. Stand by my point that no matter what the outcome provides, large proportions of the nation will not be satisfied.
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 The Conservatives should form the next government, either as a minority or as part of a Lib-Con coalition, because they have the most votes and the most seats so they have the mandate. I'm not spitting my dummy out just because i despise Labour and the Liberals for the simple reason that a Lib-Lab pact would be good for the Tories at the next election because even with dastardly tactical voters, seats such as Eastleigh would turn blue in disgust, but because a Lib-Lab pact would be a minority coalition and therefore a very weak government. Do you fancy another run on the pound and an IMF bailout? You do make me chuckle young Stanley. Dastardly voters indeed! Those of us who voted tactically have as much right to as those who change their mind from BNP to UKIP. Here's to a Lab/Lib coalition! :partyman: If it only lasts long enough to get rid of the FPTP system!
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 The Conservatives should form the next government, either as a minority or as part of a Lib-Con coalition, because they have the most votes and the most seats so they have the mandate. I'm not spitting my dummy out just because i despise Labour and the Liberals for the simple reason that a Lib-Lab pact would be good for the Tories at the next election because even with dastardly tactical voters, seats such as Eastleigh would turn blue in disgust, but because a Lib-Lab pact would be a minority coalition and therefore a very weak government. Do you fancy another run on the pound and an IMF bailout? A coalition of all the left of centre parties Stanley, not just Lab-Lib. All of them want to keep the tories out. Didn't actually believe that SNP/PC would work with Labour though.
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Balls Don't think he'd beat either of the two I mention but no doubt his hat will be in the ring.
Shandy_Top_89 Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 The argument against yours of our 'broken electoral system' is that PR is unlikely to ever give any one party a goverment majority. Lol i pointed that out in the post myself. I wasnt favouring one or the other to be honest, this is a country that struggles without a majority. However a system where a party can get 23% of votes but only 8% of seats is clearly disfunctional. However i did vote for Lib Dem because of promises of electoral reform, PR may not be the way forward however FPTP also has major flaws and id welcome a creative outcome to con-lib discussions on the issue. *Breaking news as i write this - cons have just offered libs referendum on AV. Anyways im out of posts for today, ta for taking the time to read the rant.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 What about the people who voted labour but hated the liberals? And vice versa? Precisely. The liberal Party is, and always has been wishy washy. In the north the Liberals are an alternative to Labour, in the South the Liberals are an alternative to the conservatives. If the Liberals side with the Conservatives they'll lose votes in the North, if the Liberals side with Labour they can wave good bye to the south and south west. Whicher way the Liberals go they'll bit hit, but siding with the Conservatives will hit them the least.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 A coalition of all the left of centre parties Stanley, not just Lab-Lib. Give me some numbers seeing as how you've got it all worked out.
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Good news for the Tory's. A Lib/Lab pact wont last a year, they haven't got the numbers. To see Scottish MP's propping up Parties that lost seats in the election wont go down well in England.There will be another election within a year. Yes they have Labour,Lib Dem,SNP,Plaid Cymru,Green,SDLP and Alliance makes up a Progressive coalition which numbers about 329
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 You do make me chuckle young Stanley. Dastardly voters indeed! Those of us who voted tactically have as much right to as those who change their mind from BNP to UKIP. Here's to a Lab/Lib coalition! :partyman: If it only lasts long enough to get rid of the FPTP system! It won't get through parliament because even if the Labour whips whip for England they still won't be able to get all Labour MP's to back it because FPTP favours Labour. Add these MP's to the Conservatives who'll all vote against + the DUP and it equals defeat.
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Good news for the Tories - YES, but very bad news for the country. I fully expect a run on the pound in a matter of days if the Tories and the Liberals don't announce a deal PDQ. I hope so i´m coming to England soon and my Euros will go further :-)
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Give me some numbers seeing as how you've got it all worked out. Going by the interviews on the BBC earlier. The SNP leader in the commons basically spelt it out how they, PC, SNLP, Greens and certain independants would be comfortable working in a left of centre coalition of all the parties to ensure economic stability.
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 I still believe that Clegg only has two choices: 1) Join a Conservative coalition but with no PR deal. 2) Allow the Conservatives to form a minority government. Option 2) is still the most likely. It's completly and utterly unthinkable that he'll form a Lib-Lab pact. But if he does it'll send a clear message to the country that he cares nothing for the will of the people, and he cares nothing for the economy, but that all he cares about is the voting system and his own party. You Tories are gutted aren´t you? So close but yet so far
revolution saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Yes they have Labour,Lib Dem,SNP,Plaid Cymru,Green,SDLP and Alliance makes up a Progressive coalition which numbers about 329 Plus Sinn Fein never vote.
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Yes they have Labour,Lib Dem,SNP,Plaid Cymru,Green,SDLP and Alliance makes up a Progressive coalition which numbers about 329 Thanks. Saves me totting them up.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 Going by the interviews on the BBC earlier. The SNP leader in the commons basically spelt it out how they, PC, SNLP, Greens and certain independants would be comfortable working in a left of centre coalition of all the parties to ensure economic stability. I said give me the numbers, you do know the numbers don't you?
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Plus Sinn Fein never vote. Forgotten about that.
Joesaint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Labour have no chance, there a bunch of idiots!!!!! saying that, cheers for the lib dems with 57 seats having the choice.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 Yes they have Labour,Lib Dem,SNP,Plaid Cymru,Green,SDLP and Alliance makes up a Progressive coalition which numbers about 329 :smt043 That'll really reasure the markets and deliver an effective government. And when you say about 329, is it 329 or not?
Ludwig Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Can dune stop spouting complete rubbish in this thread, please?
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Oh dear! Brown won his seat? Then he's elected. End of whinge. Grubby? for entering into discussions with the Lib Dems? That makes the Tories and Lib Dems grubby also. It's not going how you wanted it to Stanley and you're throwing your toys out of the pram. P.S. It's hardly going the way I want it to either! But its better than having the Tories govern eh?
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 I said give me the numbers, you do know the numbers don't you? Not off the top of my head but IIRC it's just over but I concede I may be wrong. Still, you keep believing that it's just Lib/Lab if it makes you feel better. How did the Labour core vote do Stanley? How big did you say the tory majority would be with them all going over to the tories?
revolution saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 :smt043 That'll really reasure the markets and deliver an effective government. And when you say about 329, is it 329 or not? Depends what you want - it'll deliver an effective non tory government. In fact if that's the case in future elections then I'm loving it.
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 :smt043 That'll really reasure the markets and deliver an effective government. And when you say about 329, is it 329 or not? Yes, it's 329 with one result to come.
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 You do make me chuckle young Stanley. Dastardly voters indeed! Those of us who voted tactically have as much right to as those who change their mind from BNP to UKIP. Here's to a Lab/Lib coalition! :partyman: If it only lasts long enough to get rid of the FPTP system! +1, never again a Tory majority :-)
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 Not off the top of my head but IIRC it's just over but I concede I may be wrong. Still, you keep believing that it's just Lib/Lab if it makes you feel better. How did the Labour core vote do Stanley? How big did you say the tory majority would be with them all going over to the tories? This was my pre election prediction (before the exit polls): Share of the Vote Conservative - 39% Labour - 28% Liberal - 23% Seats Conservative - 324 Labour - 237 Liberal - 61 I think you'll agree that it wasn't a bad prediction.
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Yes, it's 329 with one result to come. He is absolutely gutted ( Dune/Stanley ) its all slipping away
Fuengirola Saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 This was my pre election prediction (before the exit polls): Share of the Vote Conservative - 39% Labour - 28% Liberal - 23% Seats Conservative - 324 Labour - 237 Liberal - 61 I think you'll agree that it wasn't a bad prediction. Not bad at all, but it still doesn´t help call me Dave get his feet inside no 10 does it?
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 He is absolutely gutted ( Dune/Stanley ) its all slipping away Don't be daft, i'm sitting here shaking my head that you lot are so daft you think that a multi party cobbled together coalition could work. Sterling will crash within days of such a coalition being announced and we'll be at the IMF pleading for a bailout.
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 This was my pre election prediction (before the exit polls): Share of the Vote Conservative - 39% Labour - 28% Liberal - 23% Seats Conservative - 324 Labour - 237 Liberal - 61 I think you'll agree that it wasn't a bad prediction. Yes, quite good. I'll assume that your predictions of a collapse of the core Labour vote and those votes going blue was down to wishful thinking.
Ludwig Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Don't be daft, i'm sitting here shaking my head that you lot are so daft you think that a multi party cobbled together coalition could work. Sterling will crash within days of such a coalition being announced and we'll be at the IMF pleading for a bailout. Rubbish. The coalition will work long enough to oversee a successful referendum on PR and ultimately ensure the Tories never come into power in this country in the foreseeable future. :partyman:
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Don't be daft, i'm sitting here shaking my head that you lot are so daft you think that a multi party cobbled together coalition could work. Sterling will crash within days of such a coalition being announced and we'll be at the IMF pleading for a bailout. So a tory/lib pact could work but a left of centre one couldn't? A tory minority government would lose the Queens Speech vote and we'd be back at the ballot box. It's all a right royal mess.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 Rubbish. The coalition will work long enough to oversee a successful referendum on PR and ultimately ensure the Tories never come into power in this country in the foreseeable future. :partyman: Dream on. Are you that stupid to think all the parliamentary Labour party will support the motion?
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 It's all a right royal mess. On this every sane person agrees. And this is exactly what would happen under PR after every election as Nickh rightly explains in his thread.
Ludwig Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Dream on. Are you that stupid to think all the parliamentary Labour party will support the motion? Yes.
revolution saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 On this every sane person agrees. And this is exactly what would happen under PR after every election as Nickh rightly explains in his thread. And as has been explained to you it works well in other countries. What you're scared of is that the anti tory vote will result in you never getting the degree of power you once had. This is a good thing - the majority of people are united in not wanting the Tories. I think it's great that diverse parties can unite under the banner of not being Tories - it's quite refreshing. The markets will love it too - it delivers certainty.
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Posted 10 May, 2010 And as has been explained to you it works well in other countries. What you're scared of is that the anti tory vote will result in you never getting the degree of power you once had. This is a good thing - the majority of people are united in not wanting the Tories. I think it's great that diverse parties can unite under the banner of not being Tories - it's quite refreshing. The markets will love it too - it delivers certainty. Rubbish, do you really think the voting public would sit by and allow Britain to be ruled permanently by a commie left wing dictatorship? There would be a left wing block and a right wing block.
revolution saint Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 Rubbish, do you really think the voting public would sit by and allow Britain to be ruled permanently by a commie left wing dictatorship? There would be a left wing block and a right wing block. Yep, you're right - a bit like the Tory alliances in Europe. You'd have UKIP and the BNP....good luck with that.
Saint In Exile Posted 10 May, 2010 Posted 10 May, 2010 (edited) Don't be daft, i'm sitting here shaking my head that you lot are so daft you think that a multi party cobbled together coalition could work. Sterling will crash within days of such a coalition being announced and we'll be at the IMF pleading for a bailout. Works in Germany, works in Japan, works in Sweden, works in Belgium, works in Switzerland, works in Ireland what makes you think it can't work here? India's current coalition consits of 13 different parties. Edited 10 May, 2010 by Saint In Exile
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