dune Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 I've just noticed that the gold price has hit a record high of $1200/oz. http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html However more worryingly than Gordons incompetent decision to sell our bullion reserves for peanuts, could this strengthening in the safe haven of intrinsically valuable investments be the clearest pointer yet that that the world is heading into another recession? There's a storm brewing on the horizon me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 That man hasn't got a clue about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 9 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 9 May, 2010 That man hasn't got a clue about money. Put yourself in Browns shoes. You inheritted a country in fine shape due the economic policies of Ken Clarke, Britain was booming, boom and bust had been eradicated for good. Brown really believed he was Nero. Nothing could wrong so Brown didn't even consider running a budget surplus or retaining our gold reserves. This economic crisis was impossible, it simply couldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleonothing Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 Put yourself in Browns shoes. You inheritted a country in fine shape due the economic policies of Ken Clarke, Britain was booming, boom and bust had been eradicated for good. Brown really believed he was Nero. Nothing could wrong so Brown didn't even consider running a budget surplus or retaining our gold reserves. This economic crisis was impossible, it simply couldn't happen. Except it did. Brown spent in the good times and failed to save. The economy runs in cycles and he failed to calculate it. He sold the gold off despite being advised by all the experts to not do so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 Except it did. Brown spent in the good times and failed to save. The economy runs in cycles and he failed to calculate it. He sold the gold off despite being advised by all the experts to not do so! Any "advice" gordon is offered gets very short shrift from him, hes not the listening type. And the people even more plssed off than us with the farcical dumping of our gold reserves at poundland prices are the southern-effricans, I had messages and emails from friends over there asking wtf was going on. Being large producers, it hit their finances badly when our load flooded the markets and dropped the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 Except it did. Brown spent in the good times and failed to save. The economy runs in cycles and he failed to calculate it. He sold the gold off despite being advised by all the experts to not do so! Do not forget that he told everyone he was going to do it so the price went down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 (edited) Do not forget that he told everyone he was going to do it so the price went down! The price of gold at the time had been going down for quite a while before the decision to sell. At the time he had the choice between holding on to the gold with no indication the value was going to go up or selling it and investing the money raised to earn interest which is something you don't get on a gold bar locked in a vault. Yes in hindsight selling the gold was probably not the best thing to do but that's hindsight for you. Hindsight says that Cameron should have run his election strategy differently, etc, etc. etc. He sold the gold off despite being advised by all the experts to not do so! Can you provide links to this 'all the experts advised not to' then??? Edited 10 May, 2010 by pedg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 Can you provide links to this 'all the experts advised not to' then??? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1654931.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 10 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 10 May, 2010 The price of gold at the time had been going down for quite a while before the decision to sell. At the time he had the choice between holding on to the gold with no indication the value was going to go up or selling it and investing the money raised to earn interest which is something you don't get on a gold bar locked in a vault. Yes in hindsight selling the gold was probably not the best thing to do but that's hindsight for you. Hindsight says that Cameron should have run his election strategy differently, etc, etc. etc. Hindsight??? FFS, this is the man who declared that boom and bust was a thing of the past. This is the driving principle that governed the way Gordon Brown acted throughout his time as Chancellor. Oh well, we all make mistakes. FFS, Brown is an utter moron for discounting historical precedent. Those gold reserves had been built up over centuries. Gold is and has always been the safe haven in a storm. Don't talk about hindsight like Brown made a silly mistake - he made a monumental mistake that is beyond excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1654931.ece So 'all the experts were against it' actually becomes some officials having misgivings? Its not like Brown was alone as I believe at the time several other countries were selling of their gold reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 So 'all the experts were against it' actually becomes some officials having misgivings? Its not like Brown was alone as I believe at the time several other countries were selling of their gold reserves. No, there was strong Treasury advice against. He has actually lost more than Black Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 Interesting article about it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/12/gold-gordon-brown-sell-off And in principle, with 43% of the Bank of England's reserves then held in gold, it did make sense for Brown to spread the nation's finances more evenly. The metal's value had been flat or falling for nearly a decade, and the Canadian, Belgian, Dutch and Austrian central banks – not to mention the International Monetary Fund – had been disposing of theirs for some time. As I said we were not alone in selling off our gold, in deed the other countries probably got better deals because they sold theirs off earlier when the price was higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 Interesting article about it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/12/gold-gordon-brown-sell-off As I said we were not alone in selling off our gold, in deed the other countries probably got better deals because they sold theirs off earlier when the price was higher. Yes, interesting. I've always liked gold, especially the 24 carat sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 I've just noticed that the gold price has hit a record high of $1200/oz. http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html However more worryingly than Gordons incompetent decision to sell our bullion reserves for peanuts, could this strengthening in the safe haven of intrinsically valuable investments be the clearest pointer yet that that the world is heading into another recession? There's a storm brewing on the horizon me thinks. If I get you right, you're telling me the Pope, who's hoarding the big cache of gold bullion in the world should be in charge of the world economy. Maybe selling off humans as slaves would be your idea of good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Jim Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 Except it did. Brown spent in the good times and failed to save. The economy runs in cycles and he failed to calculate it. He sold the gold off despite being advised by all the experts to not do so! He didn't just sell it off, he sold it and announced prior tot he sale, when he was selling and at what price he was selling at. Nice one Gordon =D> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 If only we had hung on to our industies under Thatcher. Now we don't make anything anymore and having nothing to export, nothing to sell except what is left of the family silver. If only if only if only.....Still, at leats there are plenty of jobs for kids flipping burgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 No, there was strong Treasury advice against. He has actually lost more than Black Wednesday. Lost more than Black Wednesday? How does that work Whitey. Nothing was lost at the time, since the sell off prices have increased, but you can't lose what you don't have! All theoretical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 If only we had hung on to our industies under Thatcher. Now we don't make anything anymore and having nothing to export, nothing to sell except what is left of the family silver. If only if only if only.....Still, at leats there are plenty of jobs for kids flipping burgers. That's a serious point SOG. All of the privatised industries are all making nice tidy profits for the shareholders now, which could have been the UK government. Billions have gone out of the UK economy to foreign investors since privatisation. I realise there were issues with militant work forces,but the French kept hold of 40% or so of EDF/GDF. Now they're making money for the French government supplying electricity and gas to UK consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 Lost more than Black Wednesday? How does that work Whitey. Nothing was lost at the time, since the sell off prices have increased, but you can't lose what you don't have! All theoretical. The same could be said about Black Wednesday, but there is no argument that if you give away something cheaply you have lost out. If he had not sold the gold, and there was no need to at the time, then we could sell it now and get much more for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 Put yourself in Browns shoes. You inheritted a country in fine shape due the economic policies of Ken Clarke, Britain was booming, boom and bust had been eradicated for good. lol you wouldn't score too highly in an ecomonic essay with that superficial argument. "A country in fine shape"? not really, you must be forgetting the hospital waiting listings and crumbling public services. The economy was moving forward in the last couple of years under the Tories but then so was the rest of the world and the recession of the early 90s (under the Tories if you recall) was so bad that it laid waste to all but the strongest businesses and left them a nice vacuum to fill once things picked up a little. I don't see how you could say that boom and bust had been eradicated for good when Britain had only recently been in recession. Brown was an idiot for saying an "end to boom and bust" because it was always going to be misinterpreted and there is no way that any economy can guarantee no recession. In economic terms "boom and bust" refers to a short term cycle of growth followed by recession, often because of political medalling in the money supply. The number of years of growth under Labour are unprecedented in modern times and certainly not "boom and bust" that we saw in the 70s and 80s. Don't get me wrong I'm not a Labour voter and they could have managed the economy in the last few years much more successfully (a rainy day fund would have been good) but your view is a tad lopsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 The same could be said about Black Wednesday, but there is no argument that if you give away something cheaply you have lost out. If he had not sold the gold, and there was no need to at the time, then we could sell it now and get much more for it. If playing the markets was that easy we'd all be speculating on the price of oil, gold etc. If it was that obvious that gold was going to shoot back up then they wouldn't have sold, even the IMF were reducing their reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 11 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 11 May, 2010 Just noticed that silver has hit $19!! The hightest it's been since the early 80's. And gold is also continuing to rise and is at $1220 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 Brown was an idiot for saying an "end to boom and bust" because it was always going to be misinterpreted and there is no way that any economy can guarantee no recession. In economic terms "boom and bust" refers to a short term cycle of growth followed by recession, often because of political medalling in the money supply. The number of years of growth under Labour are unprecedented in modern times and certainly not "boom and bust" that we saw in the 70s and 80s. Don't get me wrong I'm not a Labour voter and they could have managed the economy in the last few years much more successfully (a rainy day fund would have been good) but your view is a tad lopsided. You have to take the present recession together with the previous boom which was unsustainable and built on borrowed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 You have to take the present recession together with the previous boom which was unsustainable and built on borrowed money. just pointing out that it was in no way "boom and bust". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 just pointing out that it was in no way "boom and bust". ??? We're back to where we were 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 ??? We're back to where we were 10 years ago. FFS read what I posted earlier - "boom and bust" is an ecomonic term which refers to short periods of growth followed by short periods of contraction and then growth and then contraction and so on. I doubt we are 'back where we were 10 years ago" but in any case it wasn't "boom and bust". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 May, 2010 Share Posted 11 May, 2010 FFS read what I posted earlier - "boom and bust" is an ecomonic term which refers to short periods of growth followed by short periods of contraction and then growth and then contraction and so on. I doubt we are 'back where we were 10 years ago" but in any case it wasn't "boom and bust". After adjustment for inflation? We boomed and then we busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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