Cameron must be absolutely gutted

[GenevaSaint]

can we add another two words to the thread title.....

 

Cameron must be absolutely gutted and desperate

[Wes Tender]

can we add another two words to the thread title.....

 

Cameron must be absolutely gutted and desperate

 

Can we add another three words to that too?

 

....as is Labour.

[Fuengirola Saint]

Ah! So you aren't old enough to have experienced the period of Labour misrule before that then. My set of values and ethics were moulded then and some didn't like the medicine we had to take in the eighties to get our bankrupt, overmanned and inefficient economy back on its feet. As they say, what goes around, comes around and undoubtedly you will bleat when the nasty medicine is administered this time around following Labour's latest spell in power.

 

To be fair the Wilson Government entered power with a large balance of payments deficit caused by the Barber Boom and the oil crisis, so not really a surprise that inflation would rise from 11% to 25%.

[GenevaSaint]

Can we add another three words to that too?

....as is Labour.

 

Oh yes I know they are. I was truly gob smacked by the offer of a referendum on AV though, seriously. I never thought they would go against their core beliefs.

[Mao Cap]

How do you explain The Torys and UKIP being first and second in the European elcetions then?

 

The one election when Europe is top of the agenda, the EUROPEAN ELECTIONS, Labour and Lib/Dems came 3rd and 4th. The Torys came first, followed by a fringe party who want to withdraw. The fact the pro European loons were completely routed, goes against your theory somewhat.

 

Sorry for delay, used up my three posts.

 

The European elections got a turnout of about 40%, i.e. the already ideologically committed. No denying that the number of people who have strong feelings against the EU does indeed dwarf the number strongly in favour of more integration - that's because it's a much bigger deal on the right than on the left, you don't get your casual Labour voter in Leeds or wherever going "MUST RALLY BEHIND OUR MIGHTY EURO OVERLORDS11!1" because although they don't mind the EU, they ultimately doesn't really give a sh*t and so don't turn up.

On the other hand a Tory in Redhill, filled with nationalistic rage from a thirty-year diet of Mail editorials about baby-eating immigrant paedos being allowed to bring the price of your house down under the dastardly Human Rights Act, will actually bother to vote.

 

However, you and Wes seem to be missing my point, which is that taking an aggressive stance towards the EU would have little positive effect on the Conservative share of the vote. The issue is, rightly or wrongly, a sideshow to people outside the Tory hardcore.

[Wes Tender]

Quote Mao Cap:

However, you and Wes seem to be missing my point, which is that taking an aggressive stance towards the EU would have little positive effect on the Conservative share of the vote. The issue is, rightly or wrongly, a sideshow to people outside the Tory hardcore.

 

As I said before, the electorate is fed up of promises on referenda which have never been kept. So there is a degree of apathy amongst them on Europe. The presence of UKIP in a General Election is just a waste of a vote and often lets in an MP of a party not supported by that voter for them.

 

Duckhunter and I have not missed the point at all and what you have said is just your opinion, conjecture that has not been put to the test. You have no evidence to support it, either.

[trousers]

Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

 

Cameron must, in hindsight, be delighted with the way things have turned out.

 

Had he got a working majority, the necessary cuts that the government needs to make would have been labelled by the left and a large section of the British public as "same old Tory cuts", whereas now it appears they've got an alliance with the lib dems they have a shield for that false (but damaging) criticism by being able to say, we discussed this with vince cable and our other lib dem friends first and we decided together that cut 'x' and cut 'y' were necessary.

 

Some might say that cameron even planned it this way...

[Thedelldays]

Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

 

Cameron must, in hindsight, be delighted with the way things have turned out.

 

Had he got a working majority, the necessary cuts that the government needs to make would have been labelled by the left and a large section of the British public as "same old Tory cuts", whereas now it appears they've got an alliance with the lib dems they have a shield for that false (but damaging) criticism by being able to say, we discussed this with vince cable and our other lib dem friends first and we decided together that cut 'x' and cut 'y' were necessary.

 

Some might say that cameron even planned it this way...

 

would be hard to say "nasty tory party now" if the two parties get it on...

[View From The Top]

Anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

 

Cameron must, in hindsight, be delighted with the way things have turned out.

 

Had he got a working majority, the necessary cuts that the government needs to make would have been labelled by the left and a large section of the British public as "same old Tory cuts", whereas now it appears they've got an alliance with the lib dems they have a shield for that false (but damaging) criticism by being able to say, we discussed this with vince cable and our other lib dem friends first and we decided together that cut 'x' and cut 'y' were necessary.

 

Some might say that cameron even planned it this way...

 

It rather plays into Labour hands as well as if it gets all nasty whilst they regroup they can say "not us guv" to the electorate.

 

I think it's great that the tories have had to rely on a left wing party to prop them up and it means that they won't be able to get away with what they wanted to and if it means Clarke and Cable in the treasury most of us lefties will consider the election a good result.

[bridge too far]

It rather plays into Labour hands as well as if it gets all nasty whilst they regroup they can say "not us guv" to the electorate.

 

I think it's great that the tories have had to rely on a left wing party to prop them up and it means that they won't be able to get away with what they wanted to and if it means Clarke and Cable in the treasury most of us lefties will consider the election a good result.

 

That could be construed as disadvantageous though. I'd rather the Tories' true colours were shown rather than have them diluted.

[Mao Cap]

Duckhunter and I have not missed the point at all and what you have said is just your opinion, conjecture that has not been put to the test. You have no evidence to support it, either.

 

Well, yeah. That's what it was supposed to be.

[View From The Top]

That could be construed as disadvantageous though. I'd rather the Tories' true colours were shown rather than have them diluted.

 

I'd sooner the country didn't suffer a Thatcherite administration.

 

Political allegiance 2nd to national interest over the next few years will do me.

[OldNick]

I'd sooner the country didn't suffer a Thatcherite administration.

 

Political allegiance 2nd to national interest over the next few years will do me.

If we hadn't had Thatcher we would never have had the golden years ,that her tough decisions laid the foundations for.

She took the nation on when we were in disarray. Years of the unions having too much power took its toll.

The unions are important to stop employers taking people for granted etc,but they cannot use that strength try and bring governments down and destroy the jobs they were supposed to be protecting.

The BA dispute has shown old practices that go back to the 1930's have no place in the cut throat modern world.

[View From The Top]

If we hadn't had Thatcher we would never have had

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[OldNick]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

In denial Lol

[bridge too far]

I'd sooner the country didn't suffer a Thatcherite administration.

 

Political allegiance 2nd to national interest over the next few years will do me.

 

But 1st to Cameron interest.

[Whitey Grandad]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

To be fair, there is a much longer soporific list on another thread...

[OldNick]

But 1st to Cameron interest.

Hypocritcal as usual

[bridge too far]

Hypocritcal as usual

 

Yep he's that too.

[hypochondriac]

I am so glad bridge too far has been on holiday. So utterly utterly biased it is almost funny.

[bridge too far]

I am so glad bridge too far has been on holiday. So utterly utterly biased it is almost funny.

 

Yep I'm biased, of course I am. A woman of conviction, that's me.

 

I'm not a fence-sitting eunuch or a flip-flop voter.

 

Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose - that's life.

 

I have no problem accepting this result and I look forward with great glee to the inevitable outcome.

 

Just heard that Osborne WILL be Chancellor. First mistake and he's not been officially declared PM

[OldNick]

I look forward with great glee to the inevitable outcome.

 

So do I.

From Camerons speech , he his going to look after the needy frail and old, but the shirkers and leeches will be sorted.

I truly hope that the coalition is strong, and a little of the worthy part of the left can join the worthy part of the rights beliefs, and we as a nation can move on stronger.

[hypochondriac]

So do I.

From Camerons speech , he his going to look after the needy frail and old, but the shirkers and leeches will be sorted.

I truly hope that the coalition is strong, and a little of the worthy part of the left can join the worthy part of the rights beliefs, and we as a nation can move on stronger.

 

That's exactly how I feel. It's why I get so angry and frustrated by blinked posters like BTF.

[bridge too far]

That's exactly how I feel. It's why I get so angry and frustrated by blinked posters like BTF.

 

Why get angry and frustrated with me? I'm just an ordinary person with an ordinary point of view.

 

I'm no more blinkered than you. I'm entitled to my PoV just as you are.

 

I think, FWIW, that the Liberals have made a grave mistake that will haunt them for years to come, that the Tories have sold out on some of their dearest-held policies, and that the Labour Party has refused to go against its own policies.

 

It would be a boring old world if everyone agreed on everything FFS.

[OldNick]

and that the Labour Party has refused to go against its own policies.

 

.

Lol, of course they didn't try thats why they have been talking for 2 days Lollage

[bridge too far]

Lol, of course they didn't try thats why they have been talking for 2 days Lollage

 

I don't think they did 'talk for 2 days'. They had a couple of meetings and then decided they couldn't forsake their own policies in order to form a government.

 

Even the Liberals have said this is the case.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

If we hadn't had Thatcher we would never have had the golden years ,that her tough decisions laid the foundations for.

She took the nation on when we were in disarray. Years of the unions having too much power took its toll.

The unions are important to stop employers taking people for granted etc,but they cannot use that strength try and bring governments down and destroy the jobs they were supposed to be protecting.

The BA dispute has shown old practices that go back to the 1930's have no place in the cut throat modern world.

 

Thatcher golden years??????? mass unemployment, poll tax, war on working class people of this country, riots....... yeah golden years.

 

I guess you have never been unfairly dismissed, bullied, denied promotion, made redundant, denied special leave or sacked because of your legal trade union activitiy?

[Wes Tender]

I'm not a fence-sitting eunuch or a flip-flop voter.

 

I think, FWIW, that the Liberals have made a grave mistake that will haunt them for years to come, that the Tories have sold out on some of their dearest-held policies, and that the Labour Party has refused to go against its own policies.

 

You're not a eunuch? Quel surprise! As a female, I'd have been more surprised if you were.

 

What will happen remains to be seen and as this is the first coalition government since the Second World War, it is difficult to assess how it will go. But if you honestly believe that Labour turned down the opportunity because they had to be true to their core beliefs, you're deluding yourself. There were probably two good reasons why they were not able to cling to power by their fingernails, much as they would have liked to.

 

Firstly, they would have been labelled as the coalition of the failures. Brown would have had to step down, as has happened and the electorate would have been angry with them for forcing the second unalected Labour PM onto us.

 

Secondly, the seat figures for the Lab/ Lib/Dem coalition simply did not stck up and would have relied far too heavily on keeping a basket of small fringe parties onside.

 

Much as I would have loved to have seen the two left-leaning parties angering the electorate with their dogma ridden policies, I accept that the checks that both the Conservatives and the Lib/Dems will place on each other will produce a government where decisions will be influenced by consensus and that can only be good for the country in these troubled times.

[View From The Top]

I accept that the checks that both the Conservatives and the Lib/Dems will place on each other will produce a government where decisions will be influenced by consensus and that can only be good for the country in these troubled times.

 

Let's hope so.

 

If it moves the tories from Thatcherite to One Nation and tightens up the Liberal's policies and shows that they themselves can govern then it will be a good result all around as it will also allow Labour time to genuinely rebuild as a centre left party.

[Wes Tender]

Let's hope so.

 

If it moves the tories from Thatcherite to One Nation and tightens up the Liberal's policies and shows that they themselves can govern then it will be a good result all around as it will also allow Labour time to genuinely rebuild as a centre left party.

 

The Conservative Party had long since moved away from being Thatcherite after she left. In much the same way that Labour had to move away from its left-wing idealism to make them electable under Blair. And I thought that Labour was supposed to be a centre-left party under Blair. Did it lurch back towards the left under Brown? Mind you, many lefties seem to think that Blair was MT mark two, so it is difficult to be objective as to where the parties stand in relation to each other.

 

But I agree with the thrust of your point that this coalition will be good for the country if it can be made to work.

[trousers]

Hoorah...some balanced and respectful cross party views. What a great way to end the General Election 2010 forum and move onto the World Cup forum......

[Minty]

... will produce a government where decisions will be influenced by consensus and that can only be good for the country in these troubled times.

 

This sums it up for me. I understand some of the scepticism, but just like a new manager for Saints, they have to be given the chance to deliver results, and personally I think they will do so more often than not.

[Gingeletiss]

I don't think they did 'talk for 2 days'. They had a couple of meetings and then decided they couldn't forsake their own policies in order to form a government.

 

Even the Liberals have said this is the case.

 

Once again, you twist the truth (Labour spin Dr perchance?) It was reported, that due to Labours aggressive approach to talks with the Lib Dems, Ed Balls in particular, that the Lib Dems decided not to proceed with the talks. Now that is what is reported, the above from you, is more of your left wing bile. I reckon you retired as a Matron, you come across like one.

[bridge too far]

Once again, you twist the truth (Labour spin Dr perchance?) It was reported, that due to Labours aggressive approach to talks with the Lib Dems, Ed Balls in particular, that the Lib Dems decided not to proceed with the talks. Now that is what is reported, the above from you, is more of your left wing bile. I reckon you retired as a Matron, you come across like one.

 

So the Liberals were lying?

[Wes Tender]

So the Liberals were lying?

 

Not necessarily. It might have been that you have misconstrued what was said, especially as it was Labour trying to save face because the Lib/Dems shunned them as a busted flush

[trousers]

The election is over now

[OldNick]

Thatcher golden years??????? mass unemployment, poll tax, war on working class people of this country, riots....... yeah golden years.

 

I guess you have never been unfairly dismissed, bullied, denied promotion, made redundant, denied special leave or sacked because of your legal trade union activitiy?

Yep the start of the countries golden years. Decades of union power had brought Britiain to its knees, the 'British disease' had destroyed so much and our workforce knew things had to change.

Thatcher did what had to be done. Scargill and his ilk tried to bring the government of the day down (and nearly did so) to put Labour into power. One thing with the left is that they cannot take defeat, even now the extreme left is trying to destabilise as they haven't got their way. I have taken 3 labour victories on the chin and got on with it. Its about time the left accepted that they have been shunned and get on with it. beofre you go on about jobs lost, remember Brown and Blair destroyed a lot of businesses with their policies. Every regime hs ts casualties...or is it OK for family businesses to go to the wall under labourand their famillies lives ruined?

 

As for the trade union thing, no I have never had that problem as I never have been invovled in any work that required to join

[John B]

Not necessarily. It might have been that you have misconstrued what was said, especially as it was Labour trying to save face because the Lib/Dems shunned them as a busted flush

 

Dont think Labour were really behind the Pact with at least five MPs including Blunkett Abbott and Reid being very critical of the whole thing on the Monday night

[View From The Top]

Not necessarily. It might have been that you have misconstrued what was said, especially as it was Labour trying to save face because the Lib/Dems shunned them as a busted flush

 

Both sides have said they had a duty to talk and both sides have made it clear that it was never seriously considered.

 

It would have been wrong, however, if neither had been seen to be at least trying.

 

The correct outcome has been reached.

[bridge too far]

Both sides have said they had a duty to talk and both sides have made it clear that it was never seriously considered.

 

It would have been wrong, however, if neither had been seen to be at least trying.

 

The correct outcome has been reached.

 

I wonder, too, if there was an element of the Liberals playing 'spoof' by talking up their talks with Labour?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Yep the start of the countries golden years. Decades of union power had brought Britiain to its knees, the 'British disease' had destroyed so much and our workforce knew things had to change.

Thatcher did what had to be done. Scargill and his ilk tried to bring the government of the day down (and nearly did so) to put Labour into power. One thing with the left is that they cannot take defeat, even now the extreme left is trying to destabilise as they haven't got their way. I have taken 3 labour victories on the chin and got on with it. Its about time the left accepted that they have been shunned and get on with it. beofre you go on about jobs lost, remember Brown and Blair destroyed a lot of businesses with their policies. Every regime hs ts casualties...or is it OK for family businesses to go to the wall under labourand their famillies lives ruined?

 

As for the trade union thing, no I have never had that problem as I never have been invovled in any work that required to join

 

That's ok then, it does not affect you so why care about others who it does? You are a Tory after all.

[Wes Tender]

That's ok then, it does not affect you so why care about others who it does? You are a Tory after all.

 

Change the record. It's getting boring. Instead of broad stereotypical statements, try backing up your assertions with facts. If you can.

[View From The Top]

Change the record. It's getting boring. Instead of broad stereotypical statements, try backing up your assertions with facts. If you can.

 

Like the "fact" Nick posted about the extreme left now attempting to destabilise things.

 

But he's a tory so he can make broad stereotypical claims.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Change the record. It's getting boring. Instead of broad stereotypical statements, try backing up your assertions with facts. If you can.

 

Why don't you change the record Tory boy!!! have i touched a nerve?

[Wes Tender]

Why don't you change the record Tory boy!!! have i touched a nerve?

 

Yes. The boredom nerve.

[Wes Tender]

As to the original thrust of the thread, nobody knows whether Cameron is gutted or not apart from him. In retrospect, there are many reasons why he might be happy with the current position in preference to having a small absolute majority.

 

But he can console himself that he is Prime Minister, that his party gained the largest number of seats and that Labour are consigned to the political wilderness for the moment.

[benjii]

I am so glad bridge too far has been on holiday. So utterly utterly biased it is almost funny.

 

It's the infantile and partisan-at-all-costs glee based on nothing other than pure prejudice that offends me.

[sperm_john]

It's just nice to have the South of England determine who's in Westminster for a change instead of Labour being carried by the votes of Scotland and Wales (based on the fact most Labour ministers said they lost the election in the south of England, where now south of Bristol (and London seats) I believe Labour only have ten seats left) ...

[saintfully]

I personally would have preferred a more left-leaning government, and in particular one focussed more strongly at real wealth creation rather than phoney money generated by banking products. However, above all Im a democrat and Im at least glad that (given the choices) this government can be said to broadly represent the will of the majority.

 

Next stop electoral reform and then utopia presumably.

[John B]

I personally would have preferred a more left-leaning government, and in particular one focussed more strongly at real wealth creation rather than phoney money generated by banking products. However, above all Im a democrat and Im at least glad that (given the choices) this government can be said to broadly represent the will of the majority.

 

Next stop electoral reform and then utopia presumably.

 

Something like £80 billion goes to the Treasury from the banking sector in a good year