Cameron must be absolutely gutted

[Fuengirola Saint]

David Cameron must be gutted, i bet this wasn't in his script for election day, I actually feel a bit sorry for him. He must have dreamt about standing outside no 10 on Friday morning spouting ********, yet Gordon Brown is still in there. I'm not sure what the Liberals will do, morally they should help the Tories form a government but will they get the voting reform they want from them,this could be their last chance.

[Whitey Grandad]

David Cameron must be gutted, i bet this wasn't in his script for election day, I actually feel a bit sorry for him. He must have dreamt about standing outside no 10 on Friday morning spouting ********, yet Gordon Brown is still in there. I'm not sure what the Liberals will do, morally they should help the Tories form a government but will they get the voting reform they want from them,this could be their last chance.

Yes I agree with you, he must be gutted, and he must take a lot of the blame for that on account of his leadership style. Too much has been decided by a narrow clique and we have seen almost nothing of the more 'normal' Conservative personnel who would have provided a more balanced offering.

[Fuengirola Saint]

Yes I agree with you, he must be gutted, and he must take a lot of the blame for that on account of his leadership style. Too much has been decided by a narrow clique and we have seen almost nothing of the more 'normal' Conservative personnel who would have provided a more balanced offering.

 

Thats because he uses the Tory party as some sort of Bullingdon club extension, look at how many times we saw George Osborne during the campaign, he didn't want him found out thus having to ditch him as chancellor.

[Thedelldays]

Thats because he uses the Tory party as some sort of Bullingdon club extension, look at how many times we saw George Osborne during the campaign, he didn't want him found out thus having to ditch him as chancellor.

how many times did we see vince cable..?

how many times did we see anyone apart from the leaders..

 

jeez, you really have one hell of a chip on your shoulder...enjoy the sun where ever you are before the pain of the euro comes crashing down..and let us worry about what goes on in the UK, seeing as we have to live it every day

[Whitey Grandad]

how many times did we see vince cable..?

how many times did we see anyone apart from the leaders..

 

jeez, you really have one hell of a chip on your shoulder...enjoy the sun where ever you are before the pain of the euro comes crashing down..and let us worry about what goes on in the UK, seeing as we have to live it every day

Yes, 4 weeks and all we saw were the three 'presidents'.

[OldNick]

Yes, 4 weeks and all we saw were the three 'presidents'.

yep if harriet Harman and Mandelson had been more in the media istead of just quotes it would have been another 50 seats to the Tories

[trousers]

[EastleighSoulBoy]

yep if harriet Harman and Mandelson had been more in the media istead of just quotes it would have been another 50 seats to the Tories

 

Works for each party then.

[Saintandy666]

The Liberal Democrats don't have to help anyone. They should be more concerned with how best to represent the interests of the nearly 7 million people who voted for them.

[Barney Trubble]

He'll be happier today after Groucho Browns latest tantrum.

 

Another Gordon rant

[ChrisPY]

I voted Lib Dem. I did this as it would help keep the Tories out as it prevented them winning a seat in Eastleigh. To then form a partnership would surely be totally against democracy. FWIW I'm sure I'm not the only Lib Dem voter who would put themselves in the 'anyone but the Tories' group.

[Fuengirola Saint]

The Liberal Democrats don't have to help anyone. They should be more concerned with how best to represent the interests of the nearly 7 million people who voted for them.

 

Exactly! By joining the party that will give them PR end of discussion

[Fuengirola Saint]

how many times did we see vince cable..?

how many times did we see anyone apart from the leaders..

 

jeez, you really have one hell of a chip on your shoulder...enjoy the sun where ever you are before the pain of the euro comes crashing down..and let us worry about what goes on in the UK, seeing as we have to live it every day

 

How do i have a chip on my shoulder if i don't want a nasty rabid right wing government? Anyway using your argument i think if Labour had hidden Brown they would not have lost so many seats

[Thedelldays]

How do i have a chip on my shoulder if i don't want a nasty rabid right wing government? Anyway using your argument i think if Labour had hidden Brown they would not have lost so many seats

how on earth are the tories today a "nasty right wing" anything...

[Fuengirola Saint]

how on earth are the tories today a "nasty right wing" anything...

 

Because they are Tories! This lot are probably more right wing than some of Thatchers lot, just let em loose with the country

Edited 8 May, 2010 by Fuengirola Saint

[IamLeGod]

Thats because he uses the Tory party as some sort of Bullingdon club extension, look at how many times we saw George Osborne during the campaign, he didn't want him found out thus having to ditch him as chancellor.

 

Stop kidding yourself.

 

This is by no means a Tory phenomenon. Do you really think it is a coincidence that Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson were both at and graduated from Oxford at the same time?

 

What do you think will happen (which is looking increasingly likely) will happen if David Miliband takes over from Brown as Labour Party leader/PM. Can you really see him dispelling his brother to the backbenches to prevent accusations of patronage?

 

Get real.

[Thedelldays]

Because they are Tories! This lot are probably more right wing than some of Thatchers lot, just let em loose with the country

dear god...people like you are the reason why we will never move on from the old politics of 25+ years ago

[Fuengirola Saint]

dear god...people like you are the reason why we will never move on from the old politics of 25+ years ago

 

And people like you are the reason i left that country in the first place, oh and the sun

[bridge too far]

Just heard that the 1922 Committee are meeting. They're very unhappy with Cameron's election campaign and leadership and not happy about doing a deal with the LibDems.

 

Can't (yet) find a link for you.

[Thedelldays]

 

And people like you are the reason i left that country in the first place, oh and the sun

For what. Having an open mind. Wanting change to make the uk better

[dune]

Just heard that the 1922 Committee are meeting. They're very unhappy with Cameron's election campaign and leadership and not happy about doing a deal with the LibDems.

 

Can't (yet) find a link for you.

 

It was rumoured a week or so ago that senior Tories were not happy with David cameron for agreeing to do the election debates (he didn't need to agree to do thrm as he had a 10 point lead in the polls) and clearly the Tory cabinet is very weak in many areas. The Conservatives should have romped home in this election and destroyed the Liberals in the south and southwest. The Liberals did badly, but given their policies they should have been down to 30 seats tops. Their polling of 23% turned out to be a shock to everyone apart from me, but it would have been sub 20% based on their policies without the clegg factor. That all said the electoral system didn't help and if you'd flipped the percentages round Labour would be sitting on a landslide majority and you'd be crowing at how popular they are.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

how on earth are the tories today a "nasty right wing" anything...

 

oh dear how thick are you?

[Thedelldays]

oh dear how thick are you?

the BNP are "rabid" right wing....

[aintforever]

It was rumoured a week or so ago that senior Tories were not happy with David cameron for agreeing to do the election debates (he didn't need to agree to do thrm as he had a 10 point lead in the polls)

 

That was a big mistake by Cameron, not only did it make the Lib Dems more popular but it increased the turnout. The tories would have been better off if the Labour voters would have stayed uninterested in the whole thing.

[Fuengirola Saint]

For what. Having an open mind. Wanting change to make the uk better

 

Yeah, whatever

[Thedelldays]

Yeah, whatever

the rabid right wing tories are clearly not as rabid for the libdems to keep talks ongoing

[Johnny Bognor]

the rabid right wing tories are clearly not as rabid for the libdems to keep talks ongoing

 

 

I am not sure how these talks wil play out. The Lib Dems turned up 15 minutes early this morning, the tories haven't yet arrived. If the Lib Dems eat all the Custard Creams before the tories get there, there will be big trouble.

[ecuk268]

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

 

Clegg has to get a referendum on PR or his career is over. If Cameron agrees, his party will turn on him although it was Cameron who said that the first-past-the-post system produces a clear result.

 

If Labour were smart, they would offer an alliance with the Lib Dems and the nationalists with a guaranteed referendum and with Gordon Brown to stand down. The problem with this is that the Labour leadership process can take many weeks.

[irishsaint83]

For what. Having an open mind. Wanting change to make the uk better

 

How exactly does voting for the Tories make the UK better and even more so, how on earth is voting for the tories open minded?

 

That bltch that ruled in #10 for 11 years is a good enough reason to keep the tories out forever. Only in the past 18 months has the debt to gdp percentage reached levels above the last tory rule. The economic down turn has not been created by the UK; its just caught up in it and has largely resulted in national debt climing. The other issue is of course government expenditure, but this nation has the resources to come through this, just look across the pond in any direction, Spain is in the shlts, over 20% unemployment, Portugal is a close second to the mess that is Greece and Ireland is so fncked up that economically they are back in 1996 and will never have the celtic tiger boom like they had before which ultimately means it could be 2 -3 decades before they reach the economic levels of 2007 again. The fundemtal problem to this crisis is a culture to strive for unprecedentled levels of profit. Credit dried up over night in the USA which had profound implications across the globe. We in the UK have undergone massive changes in our wealth structure, in effect we were blasted out of the stone age politics of the tories into a modern globalised liberal nation overnight. Perhaps the pace of that change was too quick but is the UK a better nation now than say 25 years ago? Absolutaley.

 

Iraq - invaded by Tories and Labour

Afghanistan - is a just cause

Northern Ireland - Labour have done what no tory government could, got both sides to shake hands and work as partners whilst keeping it in the Union.

 

If voting tory was open minded and way to making the uk better, then explain what can the tories offer that is different than labour?.... obviously more conservatism, but what else? Can they get the economy back on track? Yes, but how long, how many cuts and what sacrifices will be made?

 

Labour, particularly under the Blair years proved that they can boom an economy, the present situation is unfortunate and would have befallen any government. Just look at the governments across the globe, some right, some liberal, some left.... conservatives, socialists and dictatorships, they all face the same economic issues.

 

Being open minded would have been to vote lib dem, wanting change would have been to vote tory but to make the uk a better place, vote labour.

 

***small print

The views expressed by me above is an expression of my opinion and does not necessarily reflect complete accuracy. As the above is my opinion, (and only my opinion counts to me) I will not debate your opinion of my opinion.

[Thedelldays]

How exactly does voting for the Tories make the UK better and even more so, how on earth is voting for the tories open minded?

 

That bltch that ruled in #10 for 11 years is a good enough reason to keep the tories out forever..

stopped right there

[dune]

stopped right there

 

That's uncanny because so did I.

[irishsaint83]

That's uncanny because so did I.

 

Well ain't the two of you brillinat

[Thedelldays]

i could not care what happened in the 80s...we are where we are...and labour have run their course...and the libdems policies are mental, and the fact they lost seats when they were so sure they would make big gains suggest that

 

that leaves the tory party...my reasons FOR them is that we need leadership, strong leadership to take us in a direction..a direction to try and sort the mess of the economy out..

 

all this talk about election reform can be put on the back burner for now IMO...a crisis is brewing in the euro zone and we need to be strong so we dont get the effects of it..or try our best to minimize it...

 

having a mish mash weak leadership will only lead to another election by the end of the year and the outside world wont have confidence in us

[dune]

Give it 6 months and Dave Cam with call another general election and then the Liberals will be wiped out in the South and South West. You heard it here first. Those calling for PR are just a few loony Liberals, the public don't want weak coalitions forever and the next election result will confirm this.

[Thedelldays]

Give it 6 months and Dave Cam with call another general election and then the Liberals will be wiped out in the South and South West. You heard it here first. Those calling for PR are just a few loony Liberals, the public don't want weak coalitions forever and the next election result will confirm this.

PR would have got 12 BNP seats if it was used last thursday..

 

BNP in parliament...how long before the "islam4uk" became a party and got seats in london

 

no thanks to either

[View From The Top]

Give it 6 months and Dave Cam with call another general election and then the Liberals will be wiped out in the South and South West. You heard it here first. Those calling for PR are just a few loony Liberals, the public don't want weak coalitions forever and the next election result will confirm this.

 

Your call on the core Labour vote turning to the tories and a clear majority were your previous call Stanley.

 

You've also changed, in the last 4 weeks, from tory to BNP to UKIP so you changed your mind with the weather.

 

You'll be wrong on this as well.

 

The only thing that doesn't change is the fact that you're a neo-nazi, white supremacist, NF supporting piece of scum.

[dune]

PR would have got 12 BNP seats if it was used last thursday..

 

BNP in parliament...how long before the "islam4uk" became a party and got seats in london

 

no thanks to either

 

This is just it. The loony Liberals would have a fit of the vapours if PR ever did come in and the BNP and UKIP were suddenly king makers.

[dune]

Your call on the core Labour vote turning to the tories and a clear majority were your previous call Stanley.

 

You've also changed, in the last 4 weeks, from tory to BNP to UKIP so you changed your mind with the weather.

 

You'll be wrong on this as well.

 

The only thing that doesn't change is the fact that you're a neo-nazi, white supremacist, NF supporting piece of scum.

 

VFTT you're like a stuck record, but i love you really.

[Whitey Grandad]

The only thing that doesn't change is the fact that you're a neo-nazi, white supremacist, NF supporting piece of scum.

There's no place for that sort of language in a civilised debate. Unless you forgot the winky thingy?

[dune]

There's no place for that sort of language in a civilised debate. Unless you forgot the winky thingy?

 

He was joking even though he won't admit it.

[Alan56]

Perversly what Labour must do now is let the Tories form a minority Govnt, no deals with the Libs at all, then wait 12-18 months. In that time all the Tory nasties will have come out, the great thick British electorate will be blaming them for all the ills of the country. Gordon will be history.

The good looking Milliband will be leader (after all X factor politics is what counts in this country now) and then the opposition can bring the minority govnt down and go to the country with a manifesto pledge to amend the ridiculous voting system once and for all. NEVER AGAIN a Tory majority!!

 

Any deals with the Libs will give Cameron a chance to cut and run in a few months before his nasty policies have really hurt and the British electorate have woken up to what he and his right wing press barons are about. NO DEALS WITH THE LIBS!!

[GenevaSaint]

PR would have got 12 BNP seats if it was used last thursday..

BNP in parliament...how long before the "islam4uk" became a party and got seats in london

no thanks to either

 

This weak government **** really doesn't work does it. Are the Germans a weak country/economy? I think the answer is a resounding no and they use a version of PR.

 

Aside from the current whole we're in, IMO a PR based government would take out the wild swings from left to right in policy that we have. Parties would need to agree on things, so we won't have massive overspending (lab) or swinging cuts (con), there would be a status quo.

 

In regards to the far right and left getting a voice, that's an unfortunate potential effect of PR. Biggest concern for me would be UKIP though! That asides where did you get that 12 seats from DD? Wouldn't that be entirely dependent on what system of PR we used?

[Whitey Grandad]

This weak government **** really doesn't work does it. Are the Germans a weak country/economy? I think the answer is a resounding no and they use a version of PR.

 

Aside from the current whole we're in, IMO a PR based government would take out the wild swings from left to right in policy that we have. Parties would need to agree on things, so we won't have massive overspending (lab) or swinging cuts (con), there would be a status quo.

 

In regards to the far right and left getting a voice, that's an unfortunate potential effect of PR. Biggest concern for me would be UKIP though! That asides where did you get that 12 seats from DD? Wouldn't that be entirely dependent on what system of PR we used?

 

Germany is a federal government of different states.

 

Parties might just not agree on anything.

[Thedelldays]

This weak government **** really doesn't work does it. Are the Germans a weak country/economy? I think the answer is a resounding no and they use a version of PR.

 

Aside from the current whole we're in, IMO a PR based government would take out the wild swings from left to right in policy that we have. Parties would need to agree on things, so we won't have massive overspending (lab) or swinging cuts (con), there would be a status quo.

 

In regards to the far right and left getting a voice, that's an unfortunate potential effect of PR. Biggest concern for me would be UKIP though! That asides where did you get that 12 seats from DD? Wouldn't that be entirely dependent on what system of PR we used?

 

well..the BBC (i think) used the system most are talking about and it gave the BNP around 12 seats..how long would it be before a group like islam4uk went for parliament..

 

as for germany..we are not germany

[Saintandy666]

It was rumoured a week or so ago that senior Tories were not happy with David cameron for agreeing to do the election debates (he didn't need to agree to do thrm as he had a 10 point lead in the polls) and clearly the Tory cabinet is very weak in many areas. The Conservatives should have romped home in this election and destroyed the Liberals in the south and southwest. The Liberals did badly, but given their policies they should have been down to 30 seats tops. Their polling of 23% turned out to be a shock to everyone apart from me, but it would have been sub 20% based on their policies without the clegg factor. That all said the electoral system didn't help and if you'd flipped the percentages round Labour would be sitting on a landslide majority and you'd be crowing at how popular they are.

 

1,000,000 more people voted Liberal Democrat this time round than in 2005. They did not do badly at all.

[Fuengirola Saint]

Germany is a federal government of different states.

 

Parties might just not agree on anything.

 

They still have a national parliament, The Bundestag

[Thedelldays]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlt-vedyL8&feature=related

[Wes Tender]

Not a lot of interest in this debate. The election was a poisoned chalice for whoever won it. Labour left the Country in such a parlous state economically that the medicine that needs to be taken to put us back on our feet is so nasty, that the electorate would almost certainly vote out the party having to administer it, at the next election.

 

Fuengirola posts his opinion and says "end of", but typically carries on posting. He left this Country because he couldn't stand the Conservatives, but feels qualified to comment on them, even though his opinions are diluted through lack of personal experience of everyday life here.

 

And people like you are the reason i left that country in the first place, oh and the sun

 

Well, you're a Mirror reader.

 

Irishsaint makes his comments invalid as being fair and balanced because of his second line, which exposes him as a political bigot. He goes on to list those European states whose economies are on the verge of meltdown and claims that it is a global problem. It doesn't seem to occur that the problems might lie with the EU, where all of those economies are in a straight-jacket, unable to regulate their own economies when they overheat or fail. The fact that there are other countries that have largely escaped the impact of the widespread economic downturn, argues the point that it is a global phenomenon.

 

VFTT uses such language about Dune that I thought was supposed to be worthy of an infraction.

 

Like Andynorthern who calls Delldays thick, for a perfectly reasonable comment, they both lose the argument because they have to resort to name-calling rather than debating the points raised.

 

Geneva Saint points out that the PR system of voting works perfectly well in Germany, whilst ignoring the opposite case in Italy, which has had more changes of Government since the war than any other country in the civilised democratic World.

 

Saintandy points out that there were an extra million Lid/Dem votes this time around and believes it was because they had the right policies. Regrettably for him, the truth of the matter was that most of those extra votes were because the electorate were urged by Labour to vote tactically to stop the Conservatives getting elected and also because Clegg came across well as the "triumph of presentation over substance candidate" in the televised debates.

 

Andy56 is closer to the mark of what will probably happen one way or another, with whoever has to administer the medicine getting a kicking from the electorate the next time around. For that reason, I hope that the Lib/Dems and Labour hammer out a deal, igniting public resentment if Brown tries to cling on in Number 10. But when he calls on there to be electoral reform so that the Conservatives are never elected again, I conversely call on electoral reform to remove the Scottish, Welsh and NI MPs and to form an English Parliament. If all of those bleating about how unfair the electoral system is had any sense of fair play, they would agree that this is the most unfair situation of all, those "Countries" having their own Parliaments/Assemblies, ability to influence our English affairs while we have no say in theirs.

[pedg]

well..the BBC (i think) used the system most are talking about and it gave the BNP around 12 seats..how long would it be before a group like islam4uk went for parliament..

 

as for germany..we are not germany

 

Appears to me the best way for the deal with parties like the BNP, etc, is to let them get elected for a few seats so that people can see them for what they are. Look at that council in London (name escapes me) where last time BNP got some councillors, this election they all went I believe. Plus its questionable if you can extrapolate from the results for FPTP to apply the figures to a PR system as many of the votes for minor parties could well have been protest votes where the people knew their candidate was not going to get elected but wanted to send a message. I would hope that in a PR system where (almost) every vote counts that the electorate would spend more time considering the policies of all parties rather than just plumping for a protest vote for party x.

[solentstars]

1,000,000 more people voted Liberal Democrat this time round than in 2005. They did not do badly at all.

yes and lets see the diehards from the robert mugabe schools of politics justifying the first past the post system:) even michael portillo who was a diehard supporter has changed his mind and said the present system is not Representative of the will of the people.