Renewable energy, Boll*cks

[Smirking_Saint]

No offence intended Smirking. I work for a climate change charity and know a bit about the subject and have read TG's posts on renewable energy for years. I know enough to realise TG knows far more about the technical aspects of electricity generation and distribution than me. TG is right - even if you disagree with him -its very hard to argue that the national grid and the huge utility companies investing billions in wind capacity also dont know what they're doing.

 

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article6910298.ece

 

http://www.nationalgrid.com/NR/rdonlyres/43892106-1CC7-4BEF-A434-7359F155092B/3543/Reactive_Introduction_oct01.pdf

 

[LEFT]"GE’s new WindFREE Reactive Power feature provides smooth fast voltage regulation by delivering controlled reactive power through all operating conditions. By supervising individual wind turbines, the WindCONTROL system ensures that the reactive power performance of a wind power plant can meet—and often exceed—the performance of a conventional (non-wind) power plant. Even when wind turbines are not generating active power, GE’s wind turbine generators equipped with the new WindFREE Reactive Power control feature can provide reactive power. The provision of continued voltage support and regulation provides grid benefits not possible with conventional generation, while mitigating adverse voltage impacts of wind turbines being off-line due to wind conditions. This feature can eliminate the need for grid reinforcements specifically designed for no-wind conditions, and may allow for more economic commitment of other generating resources that will enhance grid security by reducing the risk of voltage collapse."[/left]

http://www.gepower.com/prod_serv/products/wind_turbines/en/downloads/wind_plant_perf2.pdf

 

Thank you for that, was something i wasn not aware about.

 

Traditionally what many people fail to realise is although actually building the wind farms are 'relatively' carbon free the actual cost of reinforcing the network etc was always a large cost.

 

I do believe there is a need for wind energy, but i am not convinced at the moment.

 

Worryingly i have been reading reports that we will be importing 80% of our energy requirements by 2020.

[TopGun]

Thank you for that, was something i wasn not aware about.

 

Traditionally what many people fail to realise is although actually building the wind farms are 'relatively' carbon free the actual cost of reinforcing the network etc was always a large cost.

 

I do believe there is a need for wind energy, but i am not convinced at the moment.

 

Worryingly i have been reading reports that we will be importing 80% of our energy requirements by 2020.

 

There's lots of things that are altering so fast it is difficult to keep track a lot of the time!

 

There is of course an argument for long distance DC lines instead of 400KV AC lines such as recently approved AC Beauly-Denny line that will carry much energy from north of Scotland to south of Scotland, much originating at wind farms. DC lines lose less power via transmission but have their own drawbacks too - safety and power conversion. That said, I am aware that the Beauly-Denny line has already stirred an interest to develop/expand windfarms in the Highlands as extra required transmission capability will be in place in a few years.

 

An interesting update on the Con-LD nuke issue here http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/rowenamason/100005630/britains-nuclear-industry-wakes-up-to-an-explosive-problem-as-chris-huhne-moves-in/

 

And now Huhne says the LDs will not oppose nukes provided no public subsidy is used to support them. This is an issue as companies like Eon say they need public money to kickstart the nuke programme. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8679827.stm

Edited 13 May, 2010 by TopGun

[TopGun]

Interesting comments about renewables from the new Energy & Environmentment Minister Chris Huhne - http://www.newenergyfocus.com/do/ecco/view_item?listid=1&listcatid=32&listitemid=3919&section=Policy

 

He said: "The most scandalous legacy of the last 13 years is the fact that here we are sitting on the island part of Europe that has the most potential for wind power, for tidal power, for wave power...we have an abundance of potential renewable energy and yet we have one of the worst records of any country in the European Union for generating electricity from renewables.

 

"We've got to get renewables way up. We've got to make sure we're much more energy efficient, because the cheapest way of generating energy is actually to save energy.

 

"And by doing those two courses of action I believe we can make our national security more secure as well because we will be more independent of imports of key energy requirements."

[buctootim]

Interesting comments about renewables from the new Energy & Environmentment Minister Chris Huhne - http://www.newenergyfocus.com/do/ecco/view_item?listid=1&listcatid=32&listitemid=3919&section=Policy

 

He said: "The most scandalous legacy of the last 13 years is the fact that here we are sitting on the island part of Europe that has the most potential for wind power, for tidal power, for wave power...we have an abundance of potential renewable energy and yet we have one of the worst records of any country in the European Union for generating electricity from renewables.

 

"We've got to get renewables way up. We've got to make sure we're much more energy efficient, because the cheapest way of generating energy is actually to save energy.

 

"And by doing those two courses of action I believe we can make our national security more secure as well because we will be more independent of imports of key energy requirements."

 

Energy efficiency is a total no brainer. Whats not to like? but millions of people still arent doing it - even with generous grants.

 

When I moved into my 1961 house last year it had no insulation at all. The poor old couple who had been living there had utility bills of £1,800pa and yet his son told me they were always cold - duh.

 

Now, even without anything especially fancy (low e windows, loft insulation, cavity wall and floor insulation) its a really comfy home - stays warm for hours after the heating has gone off and bills are about half.

[Smirking_Saint]

There's lots of things that are altering so fast it is difficult to keep track a lot of the time!

 

There is of course an argument for long distance DC lines instead of 400KV AC lines such as recently approved AC Beauly-Denny line that will carry much energy from north of Scotland to south of Scotland, much originating at wind farms. DC lines lose less power via transmission but have their own drawbacks too - safety and power conversion. That said, I am aware that the Beauly-Denny line has already stirred an interest to develop/expand windfarms in the Highlands as extra required transmission capability will be in place in a few years.

 

An interesting update on the Con-LD nuke issue here http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/rowenamason/100005630/britains-nuclear-industry-wakes-up-to-an-explosive-problem-as-chris-huhne-moves-in/

 

And now Huhne says the LDs will not oppose nukes provided no public subsidy is used to support them. This is an issue as companies like Eon say they need public money to kickstart the nuke programme. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8679827.stm

 

HVDC is very very expensive however, and needs very very large end stations in order to effectively convert them from AC/DC and visa versa, also there are issues in protection.

 

Interestingly also, your brain does not respond to DC voltage, so basically if you are in contact to it, you will not know until you begin to get warm.

 

Scary

 

As far as having bulk generation at massives distances from demand centres it causes it own issues. One of the advantages of wind power is that you could apply it close to the location of the demand.

Edited 14 May, 2010 by Smirking_Saint

[TopGun]

Good new report out that highlights the potential of renewables in terms of power output, carbon savings, economic growth and jobs.

 

http://www.newenergyfocus.com/do/ecco/view_item?listid=1&listcatid=32&listitemid=3943

 

UK offshore wind, wave and tidal power could generate an amount of electricity equivalent to a billion barrels of oil per year, according to the first comprehensive valuation of the country's offshore energy resource, published today (May 19).

 

‘The Offshore Valuation' report by the Offshore Valuation Group, an informal collaboration of government and industry organisations, found that in order for the UK to become a net exporter of offshore renewable electricity it would need to exploit just under a third of its total offshore wind, wave and tidal resource by 2050.

 

In doing so it would create 145,000 new jobs, provide the Treasury with £28 billion in tax receipts and reduce carbon emissions relative to 1990 levels by 30%, according to the group, which includes the UK, Scottish and Welsh Governments, The Crown Estate and eight companies across the energy sector.

[Smirking_Saint]

Looks like i have a job for the forseable future then.

[StuRomseySaint]

I work within the energy industry and anyone that believes that solar panels and wind farms are the future are sadly deluded IMO (and through the education and studies i have done over the past few years)

 

Nuclear power is teh way forward, a very small carbon footprint and overall negative affect on the environment (apart from the small, and VERY small amout of nuclear waste produced)

 

Solar is the worst efficient of the renewables and wind literally is around 26% efficient as a means of producing energy.

 

The way that the french produce energy (nuclear) is the way forward, most of our power stations are to be mothballed and so put out of service within the next few years. Add to this the new energy dependant technologies that include heat pumps, Air con and electric car charging stations our energy network will be massively over loaded and so more energy will be 'brought' from France and the new connections being built to Scandanavia and Ireland.

 

Beware the proposed Green revolution, it is not any where near as Carbon efficient as it makes out.

 

I work within the Renewable Energy Industry, specifically Solar Power and it is going to be a massive market with the Feed in Tariffs etc... the market is slowly picking up and Solar PV and Solar Thermal will be the big players.

 

Wind Turbines don't work on residential properties, infact they are pretty useless on anything other than an offshore windfarm.

 

The payback time on a decent sized Solar PV is less than 10 years and the total return over 25 years is more than double. It is not a bad investment.

 

You only need to look at Germany who are world leaders since the introduction of their feed-in tariff and have 8.5gw of Solar PV on residential properties.

 

Solar Thermal is a cheap way of renewable energy and this will kick-off next year when a Feed-in-tariff is introduced... so if you are thinking of getting it, wait till next year or you won't get the feed-in-tariff.

Edited 21 May, 2010 by StuRomseySaint

[Smirking_Saint]

I work within the Renewable Energy Industry, specifically Solar Panels and it is going to be a massive market with the Feed in Tariffs etc... the market is slowly picking up and Solar PV and Solar Thermal will be the big players.

 

Wind Turbines don't work on residential properties, infact they are pretty useless on anything other than an offshore windfarm.

 

The payback time on a decent sized Solar PV is less than 10 years and the total return over 25 years is more than double. It is not a bad investment.

 

You only need to look at Germany who are world leaders since the introduction of their feed-in tariff and have 8.5gw of Solar PV on residential properties.

 

Still a scpetic on PV cells though mate, just don't think they are up to scratch just yet.

 

Thermal water heating IMO is where some real cost reductions can be made, especially if they begin to automatically fit them onto new builds.

[StuRomseySaint]

Still a scpetic on PV cells though mate, just don't think they are up to scratch just yet.

 

Thermal water heating IMO is where some real cost reductions can be made, especially if they begin to automatically fit them onto new builds.

 

Fair enough, Solar PV will kick off big time though, mainly due to the feed-in-tariff meaning people will get a 25 year guaranteed payments for producing their own electricity.

 

Because of the payback it is a very 'green' investment with a very decent return... ( on a £12,000 install you can expect around £18,000 in payments over 25 years as well as a 50% reduction on your electric bill for that time )... and the rise in value of your property.

 

Solar Thermal is becoming popular and affordable... city councils are starting to include them in new builds, but as I said, anyone who is seriously thinking about Thermal should wait until January... when they will qualify for the feed-in-tariff ( which I am not sure is in the public domain yet, but it's happening, woops )

[StuRomseySaint]

On another note, anyone who is considering Solar PV or Solar Thermal , PM me and I will be happy to quote you ( and maybe chuck in some discount ;-) ) , not only that, but you get to meet me and have me as your project manager.

 

Commercial or Residential. :-)

[TopGun]

The only issue with thermal is you need the building space and the strength for a gravity fed water tank.

[benjii]

Stu are you an MSC accredited installer?

 

Crikey, I was hoping there would be some sort of quality control on that.

[benjii]

He is right about mico generation though. It does make financial sense under the new regime.

[StuRomseySaint]

Stu are you an MSC accredited installer?

 

Crikey, I was hoping there would be some sort of quality control on that.

 

Yes most definately... the company I work for are the market leaders. If you want to know more then PM me.

[TopGun]

Yes most definately... the company I work for are the market leaders. If you want to know more then PM me.

 

Solar Century?

[StuRomseySaint]

Solar Century?

 

No

 

A large utility company, whom have offices just round the corner from where you work. ;-)

[suewhistle]

No

 

A large utility company, whom have offices just round the corner from where you work. ;-)

 

Bloomin 'eck, not the company that pay my pension?! Not sure that Stuey would give me a discount though, what with being a female football player and supporter who occasionally drinks pints!

[TopGun]

No

 

A large utility company, whom have offices just round the corner from where you work. ;-)

 

Ah, there's a Romsey connection there also because of the acquisition two years ago...

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Ah, there's a Romsey connection there also because of the acquisition two years ago...

 

There certainly is Mr TopGun.

[Pancake]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!