badgerx16 Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 May I also ask where your friends would suggest we measure out these punishments? Used to be the HeadMaster's study when I was at KES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 (edited) If you're going to dress it up in that extreme way, that anybody who administers a smack to a naughty child is a thug , then frankly I wonder what sort of teacher you are. Yes, you are there to teach and so what happens when troublesome pupils deliberately disrupt the classroom knowing full well that there is little that their teachers can apply in the way of sanctions? Many generations of pupils went through their education when the headmaster administered six of the best outside his study. The vast majority would tell you that it did them no harm. My, how things have changed in society. Nowadays, if a teacher dared to chastise a child in that way, he would either find himself on an assault charge, or the brat's dad would storm into the school and assault the teacher. If you do not believe in mild corporal punishment as a solution to these discipline problems, then tell us how you would address them? How ****ing dare you question the quality of the teaching. You have no idea, I would give you my Ofsted grading from September but I'm sure you would ignore it and say that standards have dropped! Believe it or not, schools in deprived areas are not places of anarchy, it is only poor teachers who cannot control their classes. I teach in the centre of Basildon and let me tell you, I have no problems with the behaviour or my classes. I have never and will never feel that whacking a pupil is the correct way to discipline. Before you ask, I was smacked as a child, yes it did me no harm, but I don't agree. 'Thrashing' a child is archaic and barbaric and belongs to the medieval period! Edited 7 May, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Little option, my arse!! You wamted a Labour government which you get but when they introduce the SATS it's 'we don't like that, let's strike'. Now you're going to get massive cutbacks possibly in your salaries and so you'll have 'no option' but to strike. Do you not realise that many in the private sector have voluntarily accepted pay cuts or 4-day weeks so they can retain their jobs. HAHA you have no idea what you are talking about: I did SATs (1996 in primary under a TORY government and secondary school in 2000). So no, Labour didn't introduce the SATS did they you absolute simpleton? Not if I was taking them while Major was still in power. Also, it is HEADTEACHERS, not your average classroom teacher that is BOYCOTTING the SATS, not calling for strike action. Whether you like it or not, and I'm sure you won't, that is the beauty of working in the public sector and being a teacher. I don't have to accept anything. If I'm offered a pay cut and the union has no problem with it then of course I can either accept it or resign and EASILY find another job within the teaching profession. However, if the union calls a strike, then I certainly won't be crossing the picket line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 How ****ing dare you question the quality of the teaching. You have no idea, I would give you my Ofsted grading from September but I'm sure you would ignore it and say that standards have dropped! Believe it or not, schools in deprived areas are not places of anarchy, it is only poor teachers who cannot control their classes. I teach in the centre of Basildon and let me tell you, I have no problems with the behaviour or my classes. I have never and will never feel that whacking a pupil is the correct way to discipline. Before you ask, I was smacked as a child, yes it did me no harm, but I don't agree. 'Thrashing' a child is archaic and barbaric and belongs to the medieval period! You have anger issues. He didn't questions the quality of teaching at all, he asked how you would deal with an unruly child when teachers now can only use voice and sanctions. He asked what YOU would do? Where's the link to your school's OFTSED report then out of interest (i.e. name of school)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 (edited) Believe it or not, schools in deprived areas are not places of anarchy, it is only poor teachers who cannot control their classes. I teach in the centre of Basildon and let me tell you, I have no problems with the behaviour or my classes. I have never and will never feel that whacking a pupil is the correct way to discipline. Of course you don't, as you're teaching in a nice tory constituency Edited 7 May, 2010 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman Mike Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 thorpe le saint, out of interest what kind of teacher gets to spend so much time reading web forums and posting?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Excellent post from the OP. Despite Iraq and despite the utter refusal of the right wing nut jobs to acknowledge the good Labour has done, the last 13 years have brought this country out of the hole that the Tories had put it in. It looks however as though we are about to return to the dark ages. It's a sad day in British electoral history. Yup, they brought us out of the frying pan and then flung us firmly into the fire. Destroying our economy and causing us to be one of the last countries to come out of this recession and also causing us to have pretty much our worst recession in history and start to push our own policy making into the hands of Europe. Will the tories have some big big issues if they remain in power for 10 years or so ?? Of course they will, its what happens, but Britain needed a change and hopefully brown is gone now. Will Britain need another change in 10 or so years ?? I expect so, but i welcome this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Mrs Trousers is a parent governer at a local primary school and while I can concur that the school is well run I know that there is a lot of central government orientated waste and red tape when it comes to the financal side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 How ****ing dare you question the quality of the teaching. You have no idea, I would give you my Ofsted grading from September but I'm sure you would ignore it and say that standards have dropped! Believe it or not, schools in deprived areas are not places of anarchy, it is only poor teachers who cannot control their classes. I teach in the centre of Basildon and let me tell you, I have no problems with the behaviour or my classes. I have never and will never feel that whacking a pupil is the correct way to discipline. Before you ask, I was smacked as a child, yes it did me no harm, but I don't agree. 'Thrashing' a child is archaic and barbaric and belongs to the medieval period! Perhaps thrashing a child is a bit barbaric tbh, however the fact is there that real issue with the lack of discipline that teachers can administer these days. I was still shouted at etc at school and most of us understood that if we did something wrong we would be punished. These days however there are so many issues kids can bring up to argue they should not have been disciplined its rediculous. Finally headteachers should be given the right of there choice goes, i seem to remember a troublesome kid that assaulted a teacher being expelled and on appeal being let back in. My personal opinion ?? (and i am in no way commenting on yours personally) Is that teaching standards, or at least the educating gradings have dropped. Kids that are not academic should also be able to swap GCSE's (which are uselessly outdated) for the beginning of apprenticships in years 10/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 You have anger issues. He didn't questions the quality of teaching at all, he asked how you would deal with an unruly child when teachers now can only use voice and sanctions. He asked what YOU would do? Where's the link to your school's OFTSED report then out of interest (i.e. name of school)? Thanks for pointing this out to Thorpe-Le-Saint, Patrick. Certainly for a teacher his comprehension from reading is poor, isn't it? So answer my question, Thorpe-Le-Saint. I know that your pupils are little angels, but assuming that you were teaching in a school that did have problem children disrupting a class and being abusive, how would you deal with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Perhaps thrashing a child is a bit barbaric tbh, however the fact is there that real issue with the lack of discipline that teachers can administer these days. I was still shouted at etc at school and most of us understood that if we did something wrong we would be punished. These days however there are so many issues kids can bring up to argue they should not have been disciplined its rediculous. Finally headteachers should be given the right of there choice goes, i seem to remember a troublesome kid that assaulted a teacher being expelled and on appeal being let back in. My personal opinion ?? (and i am in no way commenting on yours personally) Is that teaching standards, or at least the educating gradings have dropped. Kids that are not academic should also be able to swap GCSE's (which are uselessly outdated) for the beginning of apprenticships in years 10/11. I'm of the same mind with most of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Thanks for pointing this out to Thorpe-Le-Saint, Patrick. Certainly for a teacher his comprehension from reading is poor, isn't it? Now you've done it, i wouldn't want to be in your shoes when Thorpie gets home from school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Now you've done it, i wouldn't want to be in your shoes when Thorpie gets home from school. I'm perfectly capable of standing my ground against leftie teachers, Dune. But thanks for your concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 - The minimum wage - 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished - shortest NHS waiting times in history - three million more operations a year - over 44,000 more doctors - 90,000 more nurses - GPs open into the evenings and at weekends - free cancer prescriptions - a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist - over 100 new hospitals - the Winter Fuel Allowance - free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners - the Pension Credit - the New Deal for the Unemployed - full-time rights for part-time workers - the Social Chapter - record maternity pay - the right to paternity leave - the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years - the Disability Discrimination Act - the Racial and Religious Hatred act - the Equalities Act - the first black cabinet minister - the first Muslim minister - the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box - civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 - devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London - the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester - the Human Rights Act - crime down by a third - the handgun ban - domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half - more police on the streets - the world’s first ever Climate Change Act - beating the Kyoto emissions targets Advertisement - article continues below » - the tripling of overseas aid - the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries - the ban on cluster bombs - peace in Northern Ireland - Britain back in Europe’s mainstream - free swimming for kids - free museum entry - the right to roam - banning fox hunting - the Olympics for London - half a million children out of poverty - extended schools - 42,000 more teachers - the best-ever exam results in schools - Education Maintenance Allowances - record numbers of students. - a doubling of apprenticeships - a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child - Sure Start children’s centres - free nursery places - Child Tax Credits. What about the aquaduct and the wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny R Posted 7 May, 2010 Share Posted 7 May, 2010 Great original post. It's seems almost surreal to look back at how bad things were before 97. Also, well done to John Denham, so glad he beat Royston (a man who could not even run a small business at BP Triangle). Good to see Southampton is still red abd proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Great original post. It's seems almost surreal to look back at how bad things were before 97. Also, well done to John Denham, so glad he beat Royston (a man who could not even run a small business at BP Triangle). Good to see Southampton is still red abd proud. Boll*cks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Great original post. It's seems almost surreal to look back at how bad things were before 97. Also, well done to John Denham, so glad he beat Royston (a man who could not even run a small business at BP Triangle). Good to see Southampton is still red abd proud. Indeed. I live in Southampton North and Romsey [how's that for a constituency..?], and sadly, depsite voting tactically, we couldn't keep out the Tory candidate. To look at her photograph, you know the woman has not seen a single day's hardship in her entire life. As to her chat..? How on earth is she ever equipped to be an MP..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Indeed. I live in Southampton North and Romsey [how's that for a constituency..?], and sadly, depsite voting tactically, we couldn't keep out the Tory candidate. To look at her photograph, you know the woman has not seen a single day's hardship in her entire life. As to her chat..? How on earth is she ever equipped to be an MP..? Have you ever seen or heard Sandra Dribley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 As to her chat..? How on earth is she ever equipped to be an MP..? "Hello, good to see you. How old are you, little boy? Which football team do you support? This is a good shop, isn't it? It has many products on the shelf, hasn't it?" And this is the chat from our Prime Minister, the head of the Government that has been running the country rather badly these past thirteen years. I must point out that it wasn't just aimed at juveniles either; it was his repertoire to adults as well. Thank God that we have got rid of him, unless he cosies up to the equally incompetent Lib/Dems. But that won't be lasting for long, neither would any other pact. You'll soon have your chance to vote again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Indeed. I live in Southampton North and Romsey [how's that for a constituency..?], and sadly, depsite voting tactically, we couldn't keep out the Tory candidate. To look at her photograph, you know the woman has not seen a single day's hardship in her entire life. As to her chat..? How on earth is she ever equipped to be an MP..? You're usually much more objective in your posts. I took the trouble to spend a couple of minutes researching the background of both Caroline Nokes and John Denham before they became MPs. It seems that their career paths are almost identical, both having worked for charities and become councillors. Therefore, being equally objective (or not), I could say that until he became an MP, Denham had hardly seen a days hardship in his life either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Tbf, I don't think Labour have done too badly. Perhaps we could've spent a little less and come out of the recession looking slightly less battered and bruised, but there's no arguing that the average quality of life in the UK now is far better now than 13 years ago. I seriously have my doubts that given 13 years, the Conservatives could improve the country like Labour have. Oh yes there is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 - The minimum wage The cause of massive unemployment amongst native Britons - 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished Nothing special, it happened before and it will happen in the future - shortest NHS waiting times in history You must have a very short history - three million more operations a year More than what? - over 44,000 more doctors - 90,000 more nurses - GPs open into the evenings and at weekends - free cancer prescriptions - a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist - over 100 new hospitals A doubling of NHS spending for a 30% improvement. - the Winter Fuel Allowance - free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners - the Pension Credit A massive disincentive to save for your pension or face horrendous tax bills - the New Deal for the Unemployed What, more handouts? - full-time rights for part-time workers -and less jobs for them - the Social Chapter - record maternity pay - the right to paternity leave - the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years - the Disability Discrimination Act - the Racial and Religious Hatred act - the Equalities Act - the first black cabinet minister - the first Muslim minister - the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box This is really condescending. Either they are there on merit, or they have been promoted beyond their ability. - civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 - devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London What about England? - the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester What transformation? - the Human Rights Act We can do without that, thank you very much. - crime down by a third Oh, come on! Who are you kidding? - the handgun ban The Hungerford killings occurred under Labour. Would you take credit for them too? - domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half How on earth can Labour claim credit for that? - more police on the streets Not true - the world’s first ever Climate Change Act - beating the Kyoto emissions targets Achieved nothing except generating hot air Advertisement - article continues below » - the tripling of overseas aid - the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries - the ban on cluster bombs - peace in Northern Ireland HOW DARE YOU CLAIM THE CREDIT FOR THAT!!! - Britain back in Europe’s mainstream ??????? No sign of that in Europe - free swimming for kids - free museum entry - the right to roam - banning fox hunting - the Olympics for London - half a million children out of poverty ********, there is no such thing as 'Child Poverty'. 'Wot no Playstations?' - extended schools - 42,000 more teachers - the best-ever exam results in schools and the worst-educated teenagers - Education Maintenance Allowances - record numbers of students. Scrapping of student grants (except for Scotland) - a doubling of apprenticeships Where? - a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child - Sure Start children’s centres - free nursery places - Child Tax Credits. Complication of the tax system I can't be bothered to go on with all the others. You forgot to add an increase in the National debt from 41.92% of GDP to 53.50% and more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2010 I can't be bothered to go on with all the others. You forgot to add an increase in the National debt from 41.92% of GDP to 53.50% and more to come. How can anyone believe any of that ******** you wrote when you say the Hungerford killings happened under a Labour government, it was in 1987 when i think you'll find our dear Maggie was PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 How can anyone believe any of that ******** you wrote when you say the Hungerford killings happened under a Labour government, it was in 1987 when i think you'll find our dear Maggie was PM August 19th 1987. Blair was elected PM 2nd May 1987. I checked of course before I posted, but I am certainly not blaming Labour for the shootings any more than I will give them credit for the handgun act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Just look at the last two governments. Which one would have left office with the best an worst legacy at home and abroad They have both done very good things and very bad things. But sorry, for me, labours legacy of bad doings is far more frightening than that of the previous Tory lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 August 19th 1987. Blair was elected PM 2nd May 1987. I checked of course before I posted, but I am certainly not blaming Labour for the shootings any more than I will give them credit for the handgun act. Blair was elected in 1997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Blair was elected in 1997 Silly me. It just seems like longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 How can anyone believe any of that ******** you wrote when you say the Hungerford killings happened under a Labour government, it was in 1987 when i think you'll find our dear Maggie was PM Laughs at the reasoning that because of one simple error, you discount the whole of Whitey's argument. So will you be consistent and discount the whole of that Mirror crap article on the basis of the several holes that can be picked in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2010 I can't be bothered to go on with all the others. You forgot to add an increase in the National debt from 41.92% of GDP to 53.50% and more to come. The minimum wage The cause of massive unemployment amongst native Britons Total ******** employment actually rose after implementation - 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished Nothing special, it happened before and it will happen in the future What does this statement mean? - shortest NHS waiting times in history You must have a very short history Either waiting times are the shortest in history or they are not, - three million more operations a year More than what? - over 44,000 more doctors - 90,000 more nurses - GPs open into the evenings and at weekends - free cancer prescriptions - a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist - over 100 new hospitals A doubling of NHS spending for a 30% improvement. - the Winter Fuel Allowance - free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners - the Pension Credit A massive disincentive to save for your pension or face horrendous tax bills it helps the poorest pensioners put food on their tables and heat their homes - the New Deal for the Unemployed What, more handouts? What it says on the tin, a tool to reduce unemployment, good in my eyes - full-time rights for part-time workers -and less jobs for them They deserve the same treatment - the Social Chapter - record maternity pay - the right to paternity leave - the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years - the Disability Discrimination Act - the Racial and Religious Hatred act - the Equalities Act - the first black cabinet minister - the first Muslim minister - the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box This is really condescending. Either they are there on merit, or they have been promoted beyond their ability. - civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 - devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London What about England? England has westminster being the larger partner in the union - the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester What transformation? You're telling me these cities haven't changed! Abre tus ojos! - the Human Rights Act We can do without that, thank you very much. Human rights are a basic tenet of any decent democracy - crime down by a third Oh, come on! Who are you kidding? The stats don't lie - the handgun ban The Hungerford killings occurred under Labour. Would you take credit for them too? Maggie can take the credit for that one - domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half How on earth can Labour claim credit for that? Not sure, maybe laws passed by the government facilitated easier prosecutions? - more police on the streets Not true I reckon there has to be or we wouldn't have heard anything else from the Tories,not sure though. - the world’s first ever Climate Change Act - beating the Kyoto emissions targets Achieved nothing except generating hot air Advertisement - article continues below » - the tripling of overseas aid - the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries - the ban on cluster bombs - peace in Northern Ireland HOW DARE YOU CLAIM THE CREDIT FOR THAT!!! John Major Started the process Blair finished it - Britain back in Europe’s mainstream ??????? No sign of that in Europe Closer than we were in 1997 - free swimming for kids - free museum entry - the right to roam - banning fox hunting - the Olympics for London - half a million children out of poverty ********, there is no such thing as 'Child Poverty'. 'Wot no Playstations?' There are still pockets of severe poverty in Britain anything that helps against that is ok by me - extended schools - 42,000 more teachers - the best-ever exam results in schools and the worst-educated teenagers They keep saying the exam results are the best ever don't they? - Education Maintenance Allowances - record numbers of students. Scrapping of student grants (except for Scotland) - a doubling of apprenticeships Where? - a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child - Sure Start children’s centres - free nursery places - Child Tax Credits. Complication of the tax system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2010 August 19th 1987. Blair was elected PM 2nd May 1987. I checked of course before I posted, but I am certainly not blaming Labour for the shootings any more than I will give them credit for the handgun act. Think before you post, Blair was elected 2nd May 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2010 (edited) Laughs at the reasoning that because of one simple error, you discount the whole of Whitey's argument. So will you be consistent and discount the whole of that Mirror crap article on the basis of the several holes that can be picked in it? To be honest the fact that he posted again arguing that Tony Blair was PM in August 1987 does rather blow his credibility out of the water. Edited 8 May, 2010 by Fuengirola Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 To be honest the fact that he posted again arguing that Tony Blair was PM in August 1997 does rather blow his credibility out of the water. OK, so he read up about it and made a dyslexic mistake by misreading the date, something that everybody is inclined towards now and again. I haven't bothered to bone up on it, but my recollection which might be flawed, was that shotgun legislation followed the Hungerford massacre, whereas the handgun legislation followed the Dunblane massacre. But you haven't answered my question. I asked that if you are prepared to dismiss all of his points because he got one thing wrong, will you be even-handed and dismiss all of the Mirrors' points if something was innacurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2010 OK, so he read up about it and made a dyslexic mistake by misreading the date, something that everybody is inclined towards now and again. I haven't bothered to bone up on it, but my recollection which might be flawed, was that shotgun legislation followed the Hungerford massacre, whereas the handgun legislation followed the Dunblane massacre. But you haven't answered my question. I asked that if you are prepared to dismiss all of his points because he got one thing wrong, will you be even-handed and dismiss all of the Mirrors' points if something was innacurate? If you read one of my replies you will see that i have answered most of his responses, post no 79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Think before you post, Blair was elected 2nd May 1997. :prayer: Yes, my mistake, and I apologise publicly. I have just driven back from Strasbourg FC which explains but does not excuse. It was another ineffective law, much like the Dangerous Dogs' Act, for which the Daily Mail must take the most credit. I'm off to the footie now, chat later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 You have anger issues. He didn't questions the quality of teaching at all... 'Then frankly I wonder what sort of teacher you are' is the statement in queston, so yes, he DID question the quality of my teaching. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 'Then frankly I wonder what sort of teacher you are' is the statement in queston, so yes, he DID question the quality of my teaching. HTH. Let's have this placed in its proper context please. I said: If you're going to dress it up in that extreme way, that anybody who administers a smack to a naughty child is a thug , then frankly I wonder what sort of teacher you are. This was in reply to your statement: If parents are happy for their children to be taught by people who could flip into being thugs at any moment then who am I to question their sanity? Patrick Bateman is perfectly correct. I did not question your teaching ability. I asked what sort of teacher you are if you could call somebody a thug if they administered a physical chastisement to a recalcitrant child. The language you used was rather extreme IMO and your response to my criticism does indeed call into question whether you have anger issues. How dare I suggest, etc. I am not one your naughty pupils that you can shout at for expressing a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 Right, let's deal with some of the points individually. You claim free bus passes and TV licences as achievements, yet fail to mention that Labour has stolen billions from pensioners' life savings and completely destroyed a pension system that was once the envy of the world. Public sector pensions of course have been completely unaffected by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 May, 2010 Share Posted 8 May, 2010 I can't see anything about illegal foreign wars in that list, was that deliberate or did you just run out of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 I can't see anything about illegal foreign wars in that list, was that deliberate or did you just run out of time? As you are using the plural "wars", could you list them, remember - just the ILLEGAL ones, ( and let's concede there may be a semantic argument over Iraq ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 (edited) [/quote=Whitey Grandad;718796] - The minimum wage The cause of massive unemployment amongst native Britons Ensuring that there is a guaranteed minimum standard of income helps to fight poverty & exploitation - 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished Nothing special, it happened before and it will happen in the future The scale of the work is greater than ever before - shortest NHS waiting times in history You must have a very short history The NHS has a comparatively short history, but the original statement is still a fact - three million more operations a year More than what? Than previously acheived, duh ! - over 44,000 more doctors - 90,000 more nurses - GPs open into the evenings and at weekends - free cancer prescriptions - a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist ( So that's 5 points you cannot offer an argument against ? ) - over 100 new hospitals A doubling of NHS spending for a 30% improvement. The return is never 1:1, an improvement of 30% that is affordable is to be welcomed, ( mind you, I suppose youi have BUPA ) - the Winter Fuel Allowance - free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners - the Pension Credit A massive disincentive to save for your pension or face horrendous tax bills Help for the poorest in society, do you understand how hard up some people are when stuck with the basic state pension, ( since Maggie unhitched it from index linking ) - the New Deal for the Unemployed What, more handouts? Opportunities for retraining - full-time rights for part-time workers -and less jobs for them So just let the bosses screw them over eh ( as per the minimum wage ) ? - the Social Chapter - record maternity pay - the right to paternity leave - the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years - the Disability Discrimination Act - the Racial and Religious Hatred act - the Equalities Act No comment on the above ? So we'll assume you approve :-) - the first black cabinet minister - the first Muslim minister - the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box This is really condescending. Either they are there on merit, or they have been promoted beyond their ability. No, your comment is condescending - the system has worked against them for ages. In an ideal world it should be on merit, and personally I think 'positive discrimination' in favour of one group implicitly causes a negative impact on somebody else, but this is still progress over what the "establishment" would want to preserve - civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 ( Suprised you let that one slip without comment ) - devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London What about England? I agree ( well there had to be one ) - the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester What transformation? Come up to Liverpool & Manchester and have a look ! - the Human Rights Act We can do without that, thank you very much. Actually no we can't, Human Rights are essential, ( the problem would seem to be the Law Courts haven't yet worked out how to interpret them ) - crime down by a third Oh, come on! Who are you kidding? Try reading the crime statistics - the handgun ban The Hungerford killings occurred under Labour. Would you take credit for them too? Already had your hand slapped over that one - domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half How on earth can Labour claim credit for that? Reform of the way such crimes are investigated and prosecuted ? - more police on the streets Not true On this you are probably right, it's all PCSOs :-( - the world’s first ever Climate Change Act - beating the Kyoto emissions targets Achieved nothing except generating hot air I take it you're a sceptic then ? Whether this is good or bad is coloured by your opinion of MMCC / AGW - the tripling of overseas aid - the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries - the ban on cluster bombs Take these last 3 points as OK then ? - peace in Northern Ireland HOW DARE YOU CLAIM THE CREDIT FOR THAT!!! Blair delivered, ( with the help of the NI politicians let's not forget ), on what Major started, so shouldn't claim all the credit perhaps. - Britain back in Europe’s mainstream ??????? No sign of that in Europe Where would we be with a CONservative Government ? Towing the islands across the pond towards yankee-land - free swimming for kids - free museum entry - the right to roam - banning fox hunting - the Olympics for London 5 more without question - half a million children out of poverty ********, there is no such thing as 'Child Poverty'. 'Wot no Playstations?' You really have no idea do you ? Child poverty is real, and it hurts those who are least able to do anything about it. - extended schools - 42,000 more teachers - the best-ever exam results in schools and the worst-educated teenagers Are any of the children in your family group of school age ? What is their experience ? - Education Maintenance Allowances - record numbers of students. Scrapping of student grants (except for Scotland) Although I agree with your point, it's hardly a rebuttal of the OP - a doubling of apprenticeships Where? Well, my eldest son is on one, and there is another also at his firm, so in answer to your question - Fleetwood :-) - a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child - Sure Start children’s centres - free nursery places ( There seem to be more that you accept than you take issue with ) - Child Tax Credits. Complication of the tax system Fairer system for all. Again, you don't rebut the point, and I think there are much better examples of how complicated the tax system is, especially in finding loopholes so that Tory mandarins and rich buisinessmen can avoid paying their dues. Edited 9 May, 2010 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 As you are using the plural "wars", could you list them, remember - just the ILLEGAL ones, ( and let's concede there may be a semantic argument over Iraq ). I would put Afghanistan and Iraq in that bracket. Let's say the continued presence in both countries, and I would also add immoral to the questions over legality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 [/quote=Whitey Grandad;718796] - The minimum wage Ensuring that there is a guaranteed minimum standard of income helps to fight poverty & exploitation This is a repeat of a fallacy. Forcing a higher rate for labour does not result in increased wages, It merely exports the work to countries with a lower labour rate or destroys the jobs completely. Besides, the minimum wage has achieved nothing. It is the level of state benefits which determines what must be paid to get people to go out to work. - 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished The scale of the work is greater than ever before What makes you say that? Maintaining state property is an ongoing reponsibility of governmentand not something for which they should expect thanks. - shortest NHS waiting times in history The NHS has a comparatively short history, but the original statement is still a fact Oh no it isn't - three million more operations a year Than previously acheived, duh ! No, that's not what the staement says, and your reply does not make not any clearer.. - over 44,000 more doctors And you can't make an appointment within 48 hours - 90,000 more nurses - GPs open into the evenings and at weekends And you can't make an appointment within 48 hours - free cancer prescriptions Why are prescriptions free in Wales? - a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist ( So that's 5 points you cannot offer an argument against ? ) Why are prescriptions free in Wales and not in England? - over 100 new hospitals A doubling of NHS spending for a 30% improvement. The return is never 1:1, an improvement of 30% that is affordable is to be welcomed, ( mind you, I suppose youi have BUPA ) No I don't have BUPA and it is absolutelyunaffordable - the Winter Fuel Allowance - free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners - the Pension Credit A massive disincentive to save for your pension or face horrendous tax bills Help for the poorest in society, do you understand how hard up some people are when stuck with the basic state pension, ( since Maggie unhitched it from index linking ) See my earlier post about stealing from the pension funds of those who try to save for their old age. The private pesnion system has been ravaged and destroyed, and these were ordinary workers, not 'rich' people - the New Deal for the Unemployed What, more handouts? Opportunities for retraining I used to be a director of a local company offering government and European money for retraining until John Denham closed it down. - full-time rights for part-time workers -and less jobs for them So just let the bosses screw them over eh ( as per the minimum wage ) ? No, just less jobs for them. Part-timers are more expensive to employ. - the Social Chapter - record maternity pay - the right to paternity leave - the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years - the Disability Discrimination Act - the Racial and Religious Hatred act - the Equalities Act No comment on the above ? So we'll assume you approve :-) Don't be silly - the first black cabinet minister - the first Muslim minister - the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box This is really condescending. Either they are there on merit, or they have been promoted beyond their ability. No, your comment is condescending - the system has worked against them for ages. In an ideal world it should be on merit, and personally I think 'positive discrimination' in favour of one group implicitly causes a negative impact on somebody else, but this is still progress over what the "establishment" would want to preserve Once again you have misunderstood what I am saying. All discrimination is bad and the once we can have arrived a society in which the colour of someone's skin is of no more importance than the colour of their hair or of their eyes then we shall achieved true racial equality. To parade decent people as though they were somehow objects of wonder is deeply demeaning. Just because I don't argue against a point does not mean that I accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 [/quote=Whitey Grandad;718796] - civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 ( Suprised you let that one slip without comment ) Why? - devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London What about England? I agree ( well there had to be one ) I agree too! - the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester What transformation? Come up to Liverpool & Manchester and have a look ! What is there in Southampton and Portsmouth? (Para Fuengi, Mis ojos están abiertos y no he visto nada, pero no uso gafas rojas. ) - the Human Rights Act We can do without that, thank you very much. Actually no we can't, Human Rights are essential, ( the problem would seem to be the Law Courts haven't yet worked out how to interpret them ) It's all about rights and nothing about responsibilities. - crime down by a third Oh, come on! Who are you kidding? Try reading the crime statistics And who fiddles those statistics? - the handgun ban The Hungerford killings occurred under Labour. Would you take credit for them too? Already had your hand slapped over that one Quite rightly, but this is an ineffective law. Unfortunately teenagers are still being shot - domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half How on earth can Labour claim credit for that? Reform of the way such crimes are investigated and prosecuted ? How on earth can anyone measure domestic violence? - more police on the streets Not true On this you are probably right, it's all PCSOs :-( Yup, walking sandwich-boards - the world’s first ever Climate Change Act - beating the Kyoto emissions targets Achieved nothing except generating hot air I take it you're a sceptic then ? Whether this is good or bad is coloured by your opinion of MMCC / AGW Absoulely, they are all barking up the wrong tree. Or just barking... - the tripling of overseas aid - the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries - the ban on cluster bombs Take these last 3 points as OK then ? Of course not, see above. Also the ban on cluster bombs has robbed the armed forces of one of our most effective weapons - peace in Northern Ireland HOW DARE YOU CLAIM THE CREDIT FOR THAT!!! Blair delivered, ( with the help of the NI politicians let's not forget ), on what Major started, so shouldn't claim all the credit perhaps. No, the credit should go to the Irish - Britain back in Europe’s mainstream ??????? No sign of that in Europe Where would we be with a CONservative Government ? Towing the islands across the pond towards yankee-land I am as pro-Europe as anybody but to pretend that Europe sees us as 'in the mainstream' is farcical. The word they use about Britain is 'troublemakers' - free swimming for kids - free museum entry We've had that before - the right to roam - banning fox hunting Pointless anti-countryside gesture - the Olympics for London Another £20billion down the pan. 5 more without question - half a million children out of poverty ********, there is no such thing as 'Child Poverty'. 'Wot no Playstations?' You really have no idea do you ? Child poverty is real, and it hurts those who are least able to do anything about it. Do you have any idea what 'Child Poverty' means? It's usually defined relative to household income so who is to blame for the breakup of the traditional family unit? Lone parent benefit makes it financially beneficial to separate. Poverty used to mean not having a bed, then it meant not having a television, now it means not having a dvd player or mobile phone. My generation and my parents' can give you stories of real poverty. - extended schools - 42,000 more teachers - the best-ever exam results in schools and the worst-educated teenagers Are any of the children in your family group of school age ? What is their experience ? I used to be a governor at a local comprehensive and I have witnessed the steady decline of education in general and especially in science and mathematics (under all governments). I speak to many prospective employers who bemoan the capabilities of jobseekers and my old college has to run an extra year of mathematics training for its engineering courses. We are teaching youngsters to pass exams that are getting steadily easier, not to think for themselves or to be articulate. - Education Maintenance Allowances - record numbers of students. Scrapping of student grants (except for Scotland) Although I agree with your point, it's hardly a rebuttal of the OP - a doubling of apprenticeships Where? Well, my eldest son is on one, and there is another also at his firm, so in answer to your question - Fleetwood :-) I'm please for you and especaially your son, but there are lot less now than there used to be. I believe that an apprenticeship is much better training than studying a meaningless course at one of the new 'universities'. The governmet encourages all 18-year olds to go to university but then expects for them to pay for it all themselves. - a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child - Sure Start children’s centres - free nursery places ( There seem to be more that you accept than you take issue with ) Qui tacet non consentuire videtur - Child Tax Credits. Complication of the tax system Fairer system for all. Again, you don't rebut the point, and I think there are much better examples of how complicated the tax system is, especially in finding loopholes so that Tory mandarins and rich buisinessmen can avoid paying their dues. The vast majority of taxes are raised from the working classes but they should be fair and cheap to collect. Gordon Brown's vast overcomplication of our tax system is the opposite of this, but it does provide jobs in Labour heartlands. This is now getting too long for anybody to read. Perhaps we should restrict ourselves to individual discussion henceforth. 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Wes Tender Posted 9 May, 2010 Share Posted 9 May, 2010 Getting back to the long list of things that Labour's sole surviving supporter rag thinks that Labour has brought about this past thirteen years, there is one pertinent question that is just begging to be asked. If they did indeed do all these things, why did the country overwhelmingly reject them on Thursday? Could it be that many had cottoned on to the stealth taxes that paid for it all and resented it? Could it be that they considered that the Health Service, Educational standards, law and order had all seen declines since Labour came in? Or are the electorate a load of idiots, who aren't bright enough to realise just how good Labour has been to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 9 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 9 May, 2010 Or are the electorate a load of idiots, who aren't bright enough to realise just how good Labour has been to them? This bit ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 If they did indeed do all these things, why did the country overwhelmingly reject them on Thursday? And the OVERWHELMING majority voted CONservative didn't they ? Oh, sorry, possibly not - it seems that 64% of those that voted 'rejected' them. Regardless of what DC / NC, etc., might say, has anybody yet worked out exactly what the electorate did 'say' last Thursday, ( other than a bl00dy great raspberry aimed at them all ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 Indeed. People say labour never achieved anything - they're talking ****e. They have been blamed for the recession but I feel that it is part of capitalism anyway. The main reason I want rid of them is Gordon Brown. Never have I had such little confidence in a PM (OK, maybe John Major) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 - The minimum wage - 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished - shortest NHS waiting times in history - three million more operations a year - over 44,000 more doctors - 90,000 more nurses - GPs open into the evenings and at weekends - free cancer prescriptions - a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist - over 100 new hospitals - the Winter Fuel Allowance - free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners - the Pension Credit - the New Deal for the Unemployed - full-time rights for part-time workers - the Social Chapter - record maternity pay - the right to paternity leave - the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years - the Disability Discrimination Act - the Racial and Religious Hatred act - the Equalities Act - the first black cabinet minister - the first Muslim minister - the first black woman minister to speak at the Commons despatch box - civil partnerships, gay adoption, the repeal of Section 28 - devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London - the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester - the Human Rights Act - crime down by a third - the handgun ban - domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half - more police on the streets - the world’s first ever Climate Change Act - beating the Kyoto emissions targets Advertisement - article continues below » - the tripling of overseas aid - the cancelling of debt of the poorest countries - the ban on cluster bombs - peace in Northern Ireland - Britain back in Europe’s mainstream - free swimming for kids - free museum entry - the right to roam - banning fox hunting - the Olympics for London - half a million children out of poverty - extended schools - 42,000 more teachers - the best-ever exam results in schools - Education Maintenance Allowances - record numbers of students. - a doubling of apprenticeships - a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child - Sure Start children’s centres - free nursery places - Child Tax Credits. Just dont understand why Brown did not mention some of these during the debates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 And the OVERWHELMING majority voted CONservative didn't they ? Oh, sorry, possibly not - it seems that 64% of those that voted 'rejected' them. Regardless of what DC / NC, etc., might say, has anybody yet worked out exactly what the electorate did 'say' last Thursday, ( other than a bl00dy great raspberry aimed at them all ). There was no clear outcome and trying to read anything into the figures is rather pointless, except to say that the Conservatives received more votes than Tony Blair in 2005, which I repeat is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2010 Share Posted 10 May, 2010 Indeed. People say labour never achieved anything - they're talking ****e. They have been blamed for the recession but I feel that it is part of capitalism anyway. The main reason I want rid of them is Gordon Brown. Never have I had such little confidence in a PM (OK, maybe John Major) The recession was an inevitable result of the false boom. The problem we have is that Brown has spent and borrowed so much money that we hadn't actually earnt yet that we are now in the deep doggy-dos. We are paying £43 billion a year in interest charges and it is rocketing upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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