Fitzhugh Fella on the news

[Thedelldays]

No you don't work for BA. You get what you signed up for, along with total obedience (and I don't mean that disparingly) while BA employees get what they signed up for.

 

When it comes to change you obviously have no recourse to any action if you are told your conditions are changing.

 

For BA employees they have a right to take legally organised action including withdrawing their labour when changes are imposed when negotiation could well have got the same result.

I am free to leave at any time I like..I could even show a displeasure against being Nuclear and I wont go on a sub again...

 

BA staff (only heathrow I will add as the others think they are ******s) have the right to this..part of me hopes they bring the whole company down and I can wave my money at them when I drive past the job centre

[CB Saint]

From the Sunday Times

 

FF was sacked because he required two weeks off to do the unions accounts.

 

He also threatened a "guerilla campaign" to confuse passengers by calling strikes and then cancelling them.

[StuRomseySaint]

I asked a question - because I didn't know how it is these days (hence my use of the phrase 'it always used to be the case' - this implies 'some time ago').

 

What IS your problem Stu? Is there anyone in the world you're not angry with? You could get help you know......

 

It has never been the case since AT LEAST the late 60's and the conflict in Northern Ireland where it just wasn't safe ( and illegal ) to be in uniform in public.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

What would your thoughts be about them if you had booked a wedding in Jamaica and BA went on strike meaning that neither you or your guests could get there, costing you and your guests thousands of pounds and cancelling your wedding day.

 

Would you turn round and say with a smile " nevermind, they are allowed to strike, it's their right "

 

Course you would....

 

I would be unhappy but jumping up and down and calling names would not get me any nearer to Jamaica than I was. It's all about understanding.

 

I have many many ex servicemen over the years and conclude that there are two types.

 

Those that believe civilian life should be run the 'way we did it in the mob'.

 

Then there are those who adapt to civilian life.

[Arizona]

Of course they do, if it's the only way they can afford to get to work.

 

Tell me TDD, do members of the armed forces still get free / travel concessions? If they travel in uniform? They always used to, as did the police.

 

If students living off Burger King wages and their parents charity can afford a 1.1 Punto, I'm sure cabin crew can do it on a bit less than £50k a year.

[dune]

From the Sunday Times

 

FF was sacked because he required two weeks off to do the unions accounts.

 

He also threatened a "guerilla campaign" to confuse passengers by calling strikes and then cancelling them.

 

 

£50,000 militant has just flown 20 hours in 18 months

 

He asked them to be brave - to put their jobs on the line, to fight to the bitter end.

It was a rallying cry from a union leader to his members, reminiscent of the striketorn days of the late 1970s.

Little wonder then that Duncan Holley felt obliged to line up alongside his cabin crew colleagues yesterday as they obeyed his call to wage war on British Airways.

 

As secretary of the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association, the 54-year-old activist is a key figure behind the strikes.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259684/BA-Unite-strikes-Willie-Walsh-vows-win-war-attrition.html#ixzz0omdT1ExA

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Can I please suggest that before posters make any more ill-informed, off the cuff or disparaging comments about strikers etc., that they please research the Tolpuddle Martyrs.

 

Look online or, even better, do as I did and visit the museum.

 

Then see if your opinion is the same.

[bridge too far]

Well said DSM! I (finally after years of meaning to) went last year. Inspirational.

 

I've been suggesting too that, for their own edification and education, posters read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

[Thedelldays]

I know what the tolpuddle martyrs are....however, when you are the highest paid in your industry, even higher than colleagues down the road and you go on strike (when said colleagues dont even agree) for a company that is losing half a billion quid..

 

you should not expect much sympathy...maybe if they were on a pittance and the lowest paid etc...but they are far far from it

[EastleighSoulBoy]

£50,000 militant has just flown 20 hours in 18 months

 

He asked them to be brave - to put their jobs on the line, to fight to the bitter end.

It was a rallying cry from a union leader to his members, reminiscent of the striketorn days of the late 1970s.

Little wonder then that Duncan Holley felt obliged to line up alongside his cabin crew colleagues yesterday as they obeyed his call to wage war on British Airways.

 

As secretary of the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association, the 54-year-old activist is a key figure behind the strikes.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259684/BA-Unite-strikes-Willie-Walsh-vows-win-war-attrition.html#ixzz0omdT1ExA

 

By Ray Massey

Last updated at 6:19 PM on 22nd March 2010

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259684/BA-Unite-strikes-Willie-Walsh-vows-win-war-attrition.html#ixzz0omesWLzQ

[rocknrollman no2]

Can I please suggest that before posters make any more ill-informed, off the cuff or disparaging comments about strikers etc., that they please research the Tolpuddle Martyrs.

 

Look online or, even better, do as I did and visit the museum.

 

Then see if your opinion is the same.

Or even better why not go to the Tolpuddle Martyrs annual festival on the 16-18th July.I go every year,usually for the bands and lots of beer.

[StuRomseySaint]

I have many many ex servicemen over the years and conclude that there are two types.

 

Those that believe civilian life should be run the 'way we did it in the mob'.

 

Then there are those who adapt to civilian life.

 

Which one am I? :-)

[Seaford Saint]

From the Sunday Times

 

FF was sacked because he required two weeks off to do the unions accounts.

 

He also threatened a "guerilla campaign" to confuse passengers by calling strikes and then cancelling them.

 

This is the same FF who was ordered by a judge to work on the union database?

 

The union database was not accurate and I think this was the reason the strike was not deemed legal.

 

Surely BA would have wanted and welcomed FF doing this on behalf of the judge? If not, why not?

 

I dont agree with the strike either but I went to a Tony Benn (before you say anything, I don't agree with everything he says either!) evening and he made the point several times that each generation has to fight for the rights gained by previous generations. It seems strange to me that the law lords deemed this strike illegal over 10 spoilt ballot papers. Give the workers back their travel perks get everyone back to work and together the workforce and the management should then sit down and plan additional cost savings.

[dune]

Well said DSM! I (finally after years of meaning to) went last year. Inspirational.

 

I've been suggesting too that, for their own edification and education, posters read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

 

I think you'd enjoy the witch museum at Boscastle.

[saintkiptanui]

Which one am I? :-)

I reckon you have a special category.

[CB Saint]

Can I please suggest that before posters make any more ill-informed, off the cuff or disparaging comments about strikers etc., that they please research the Tolpuddle Martyrs.

 

Look online or, even better, do as I did and visit the museum.

 

Then see if your opinion is the same.

 

The tolpuddle martyrs happened in 1834. The world is somewhat different now. Striking to have non contractual free flights reinstated when your company has just lost half a billion pounds is lunacy. The martyrs were paid subsistence wages and had just had their third pay cut. The martyrs had a point - Bassa don't.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Which one am I? :-)

 

I haven't met you so it might be hard to gauge you. If pushed, and only by your personna on here (which is not necessarily a good guide) I'd opt for those that don't adapt because you keep talking about how life is in the forces and give the impression that you think things should be done that way.

[John B]

I know what the tolpuddle martyrs are....however, when you are the highest paid in your industry, even higher than colleagues down the road and you go on strike (when said colleagues dont even agree) for a company that is losing half a billion quid..

 

you should not expect much sympathy...maybe if they were on a pittance and the lowest paid etc...but they are far far from it

 

A week ago I would agree with you but I am now beginning to think BA are not acting particularly well.

 

 

Even if the Strike finishes quickly the staff are not going to be particularly willing to go out of their way to help the company

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Can I please suggest that before posters make any more ill-informed, off the cuff or disparaging comments about strikers etc., that they please research the Tolpuddle Martyrs.

 

Look online or, even better, do as I did and visit the museum.

 

Then see if your opinion is the same.

 

I am not aquainted with the full facts of the BA dispute but the way it looks to me is that a company is losing staggering sums of money and is rightly trying to do something about it. I do not doubt that BA have used some unsavoury tactics but all in all I think you demean the memory of the Tolpuddle Martyrs by comparing the two.

[stevegrant]

Even if the Strike finishes quickly the staff are not going to be particularly willing to go out of their way to help the company

It would appear to the casual observer that the Heathrow cabin crew have been particularly willing to go out of their way to send the company nearer to bankruptcy.

 

The one question that stands out for me is why have BA's cabin crew based at other airports appeared to be quite happy to accept the revised conditions BA have asked them to adopt because of the company's financial situation, yet the Heathrow staff are the only ones kicking up a fuss?

[aintforever]

£50,000 militant has just flown 20 hours in 18 months

 

He asked them to be brave - to put their jobs on the line, to fight to the bitter end.

It was a rallying cry from a union leader to his members, reminiscent of the striketorn days of the late 1970s.

Little wonder then that Duncan Holley felt obliged to line up alongside his cabin crew colleagues yesterday as they obeyed his call to wage war on British Airways.

 

As secretary of the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association, the 54-year-old activist is a key figure behind the strikes.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259684/BA-Unite-strikes-Willie-Walsh-vows-win-war-attrition.html#ixzz0omdT1ExA

 

42 grand for pushing a ****ing trolly around a ****ing aeroplane! That can't be right?

[Thedelldays]

£42k..........

 

my word

[bridge too far]

I am not aquainted with the full facts of the BA dispute but the way it looks to me is that a company is losing staggering sums of money and is rightly trying to do something about it. I do not doubt that BA have used some unsavoury tactics but all in all I think you demean the memory of the Tolpuddle Martyrs by comparing the two.

 

I understood that the Union and the management team had, in fact, agreed on cost-cutting measures. I also understood that the Unions had suggested further cost-cutting measures. The deal was all but done until Mr Walsh decided to impose his own views, over the head of his management team.

 

Maybe Mr Walsh, being aware of the company's financial state, has been looking for a deflection from his own performance? Just a thought....

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It would appear to the casual observer that the Heathrow cabin crew have been particularly willing to go out of their way to send the company nearer to bankruptcy.

 

The one question that stands out for me is why have BA's cabin crew based at other airports appeared to be quite happy to accept the revised conditions BA have asked them to adopt because of the company's financial situation, yet the Heathrow staff are the only ones kicking up a fuss?

 

I thought about this and think it just comes down to either how it was approached at other airports (consultation?) or it was brought in and the Union thought it was not worth the fight or maybe they even saw the sense in it.

 

So what's different at Heathrow? Again I can only think that the Union were not prepared to do it without consultation in an effort to keep as much of the perks as they could?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

42 grand for pushing a ****ing trolly around a ****ing aeroplane! That can't be right?

 

I would suggest this was BA smears.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

I am not aquainted with the full facts of the BA dispute but the way it looks to me is that a company is losing staggering sums of money and is rightly trying to do something about it. I do not doubt that BA have used some unsavoury tactics but all in all I think you demean the memory of the Tolpuddle Martyrs by comparing the two.

 

I too am not acquainted with all the facts; but I don't suppose the management have had to suffer the same privations as the mere employees.

 

I would like to see the changes in contractual terms agreed by the senior staff; if any.

[bridge too far]

I would suggest this was BA smears.

 

Looking back via Google, it would appear that existing crew average £22K but new entrants start on £14K.

[hypochondriac]

42 grand for pushing a ****ing trolly around a ****ing aeroplane! That can't be right?

 

Or not pushing it round as the case may be

[StuRomseySaint]

To the people who support the strikes.

 

Would you book a flight with British Airways.

 

Infact has anyone been stupid enough to book a flight through BA in the last 3 months?

 

They will be gone by Xmas... so will their staff... LOL@their staff. ( well the ones that went on strike )

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I understood that the Union and the management team had, in fact, agreed on cost-cutting measures. I also understood that the Unions had suggested further cost-cutting measures. The deal was all but done until Mr Walsh decided to impose his own views, over the head of his management team.

 

Maybe Mr Walsh, being aware of the company's financial state, has been looking for a deflection from his own performance? Just a thought....

 

I am not sure that people like that bother to create deflections from their own did performance. What did amuse me was his statement from is Air Lingus pilot days that 'A reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations'.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I too am not acquainted with all the facts; but I don't suppose the management have had to suffer the same privations as the mere employees.

 

I would like to see the changes in contractual terms agreed by the senior staff; if any.

 

I think you will find the senior staff were probably the first to be given the boot; that is how the private sector works.

[Seaford Saint]

To the people who support the strikes.

 

Would you book a flight with British Airways.

 

Infact has anyone been stupid enough to book a flight through BA in the last 3 months?

 

They will be gone by Xmas... so will their staff... LOL@their staff. ( well the ones that went on strike )

 

So why dont BA just settle? They have agreed substantially. Walsh is costing millions of shareholders dosh.

[Thedelldays]

So why dont BA just settle? They have agreed substantially. Walsh is costing millions of shareholders dosh.

maybe they cant afford to settle..?

 

maybe their company (which lost half a BILLION quid) is on the verge and the trolly dollys either take the offer or join tyhe queue at the job centre..

 

I will laugh my head off if they bring the company down..who will employ a BA trolly dolly in their industry..? erm NO ONE

 

and they will be at the back of the queue for jobs..not that their skills will be in much demand..

[bridge too far]

A settlement HAD been agreed TDD. Walsh's head-in-the-sand attitude is costing the company far, far more.

[Thedelldays]

A settlement HAD been agreed TDD. Walsh's head-in-the-sand attitude is costing the company far, far more.

how do you know that the companpies situation was worse than feared..?

[Seaford Saint]

maybe they cant afford to settle..?

 

maybe their company (which lost half a BILLION quid) is on the verge and the trolly dollys either take the offer or join tyhe queue at the job centre..

 

I will laugh my head off if they bring the company down..who will employ a BA trolly dolly in their industry..? erm NO ONE

 

and they will be at the back of the queue for jobs..not that their skills will be in much demand..

 

Once again, I don't agree with the strike, but the management should settle. Why aren't they? It is not the unions who are causing this but BA themselves. I am surprised you can't see this.

[bridge too far]

how do you know that the companpies situation was worse than feared..?

 

Sorry - I don't understand what you mean.

 

If WW hadn't put the kibosh on the deal that had been agreed, the strikes wouldn't have gone ahead.

[Seaford Saint]

I think you will find the senior staff were probably the first to be given the boot; that is how the private sector works.

 

err not is is not.......

[Seaford Saint]

how do you know that the companpies situation was worse than feared..?

 

Because BA have a war chest of a couple of billion or thereabouts, that's why

[StuRomseySaint]

Sorry - I don't understand what you mean.

 

If WW hadn't put the kibosh on the deal that had been agreed, the strikes wouldn't have gone ahead.

 

Will you book a BA flight now?

 

Would you feel the same if your holiday this year was booked with them and the strike action meant it was cancelled?

[bridge too far]

Will you book a BA flight now?

 

Would you feel the same if your holiday this year was booked with them and the strike action meant it was cancelled?

 

You've asked me this before, Stu and I've replied before that it's a hypothetical question because, as a matter of principle, we don't fly.

[StuRomseySaint]

Once again, I don't agree with the strike, but the management should settle. Why aren't they? It is not the unions who are causing this but BA themselves. I am surprised you can't see this.

 

Are you serious?

 

BA are making cuts because THEY LOST HALF A BILLION POUNDS IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS... cuts happen in any company which is making such a loss.

 

The ONLY people that are causing this is the people that are striking.

 

I am absolutely stunned that you cannot see this.

 

Luckily though, they will all be out of work soon and unemployable for a long time to come because no other airline will touch them with a bargepole.

[StuRomseySaint]

You've asked me this before, Stu and I've replied before that it's a hypothetical question because, as a matter of principle, we don't fly.

 

And that answers my question as well.

 

You don't give a toss about the flights because it doesn't affect you.

 

If it did, you would have a completely different viewpoint.

[Seaford Saint]

The first in a series of five-day strikes by British Airways cabin crew is to go ahead tomorrow despite last-ditch attempts by the union to reach a resolution.

 

Tony Woodley, the joint leader of the Unite union, said the two sides had made "fantastic progress" during talks at the conciliation service Acas on Saturday, but he is believed to be furious after protesters from the Socialist Workers' party invaded the meeting, halting proceedings and prompting the police to be called.

 

 

 

 

Q. Why are they striking?

 

A. The size of the ballot – 92 per cent in favour, with an 80 per cent turnout – suggests unhappiness runs deep among BA cabin staff. The crew argue the company's cost cutting is jeopardising the one thing that used to make the company stand out: customer service.

 

BA last month reduced the number of crew on a long-haul flight from 15 to 14, by forcing the cabin service directors – the most senior crew – to no longer just oversee the staff, but to start serving meals and drinks as well.

 

BA argues the average take-home pay of a CSD on a long-haul flight is £56,325, making them some of the best paid staff in the industry and that it has a crippling pension deficit and a global recession to contend with. Something needs to give.

 

The company has also frozen pay and it wants all new recruits to accept less favourable contracts than existing staff. This will, Unite the union argues, create an "apartheid" among the staff.

[Thedelldays]

it runs deep of the HEATHROW cabin staff...not the rest

 

oh no... a senior cabin staff having to serve a meal or a drink with the peasents

what ever next...

[bridge too far]

And that answers my question as well.

 

You don't give a toss about the flights because it doesn't affect you.

 

If it did, you would have a completely different viewpoint.

 

But I do have friends who fly, Stu.

 

What I care about is the attempt by BA to try to use the courts to deny workers their legitimate rights and to bully workers by 'renegotiating' (without actually negotiating at all) their pay and conditions.

[aintforever]

The first in a series of five-day strikes by British Airways cabin crew is to go ahead tomorrow despite last-ditch attempts by the union to reach a resolution.

 

Tony Woodley, the joint leader of the Unite union, said the two sides had made "fantastic progress" during talks at the conciliation service Acas on Saturday, but he is believed to be furious after protesters from the Socialist Workers' party invaded the meeting, halting proceedings and prompting the police to be called.

 

 

 

 

Q. Why are they striking?

 

A. The size of the ballot – 92 per cent in favour, with an 80 per cent turnout – suggests unhappiness runs deep among BA cabin staff. The crew argue the company's cost cutting is jeopardising the one thing that used to make the company stand out: customer service.

 

BA last month reduced the number of crew on a long-haul flight from 15 to 14, by forcing the cabin service directors – the most senior crew – to no longer just oversee the staff, but to start serving meals and drinks as well.

 

BA argues the average take-home pay of a CSD on a long-haul flight is £56,325, making them some of the best paid staff in the industry and that it has a crippling pension deficit and a global recession to contend with. Something needs to give.

 

The company has also frozen pay and it wants all new recruits to accept less favourable contracts than existing staff. This will, Unite the union argues, create an "apartheid" among the staff.

 

56 grand for organizing a bunch of waitresses, **** me.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Because BA have a war chest of a couple of billion or thereabouts, that's why

 

This war chest, has it therefore been put by for precisely this confrontation?

 

How have they managed to amass this if the company is close to going under?

 

Just rhetorical questions I can't expect to get answered but do you have a source for this because it puts a totally different flavour on the elements at play in this dispute. In fact it's almost as if BA management have contrived this dispute and yet, when they seemingly have agreement, they push on. Is this is about destroying the Union and maybe the union are aware of this?

[stevegrant]

BA last month reduced the number of crew on a long-haul flight from 15 to 14, by forcing the cabin service directors – the most senior crew – to no longer just oversee the staff, but to start serving meals and drinks as well.

Two things:

1) I thought the union had conceded that change in the last round of talks?

2) Shock horror that a company feels that its staff should earn its wages - if that £56k figure is correct, why shouldn't they expect CSDs to have more duties than ordinary cabin crew rather than fewer?

[StuRomseySaint]

 

Q. Why are they striking?

 

A. The size of the ballot – 92 per cent in favour, with an 80 per cent turnout – suggests unhappiness runs deep among BA cabin staff. The crew argue the company's cost cutting is jeopardising the one thing that used to make the company stand out: customer service.

 

BA last month reduced the number of crew on a long-haul flight from 15 to 14, by forcing the cabin service directors – the most senior crew – to no longer just oversee the staff, but to start serving meals and drinks as well.

 

BA argues the average take-home pay of a CSD on a long-haul flight is £56,325, making them some of the best paid staff in the industry and that it has a crippling pension deficit and a global recession to contend with. Something needs to give.

 

The company has also frozen pay and it wants all new recruits to accept less favourable contracts than existing staff. This will, Unite the union argues, create an "apartheid" among the staff.

 

Oh noes.... the management have to chuck out a few meals and make a cup of tea... how bad is that.

 

And lol @ the thought that some peroxide blonde no-mark trying to have an opinion on cost cutting.

 

THEY ARE COST CUTTING BECAUSE THEY ARE LOSING HALF A BILLION POUNDS A YEAR

 

F*cking hell, do some of you not get it? What do you suggest they do? They either costcut of make massive amounts of redundancies and cut flights...

 

... do them dozy trolley dolleys not get that?

 

I personally can't wait for the day that they either go into administration, or make massive redundancies... the site of lots of the staff crying and wondering how they will feed their families will give me a massive amount of pleasure.