Fitzhugh Fella on the news

[Lets B Avenue]

The hostie said she was a member of another union. One that apparently dosent exist. She also accused Duncan of lying to his members about the deal and said that the majority didnt want to strike.

 

When he tried to respond to this and point out that over 80% had voted in favour, he was cut short by Victoria Derbyshire as she had more important matter to discuss. She had to talk to Martin Allen about Zola's sacking. FFS

[Fitzhugh Fella]

There was a clip on drive time - Duncan arguing with a hostie. The hostie said if unite had accepted the deal last year then the hosties would have had a share scheme, a bonus scheme a an extra free ticket per year.

 

Incidently, they said that Duncan is now a full time employee of Unite so it seems like he is now sorted.

 

That just goes to show you should not believe a lot of what is said.

I am far from "sorted"

For the record I have 18 months left of my 2 year term as a branch secretary. The crew have told me they want me to see out that term, I was elected in Dec 09 so will go though until December 2011. I will get some money from Unite while I complete my duties.

 

After that I will be on my own with 2 teenage kids to support.

 

Obviously getting sacked was not in my plans and although I am not going to starve I am pretty unemployable at my age.

 

However I have to say that I believe in what I did and I would do it again, without a second thought.

 

Striking really is our last option - there has been no where else to go.

[hypochondriac]

Surely you can appeal Duncan? Or sue for wrongful dismissal?

[CB Saint]

That just goes to show you should not believe a lot of what is said.

I am far from "sorted"

For the record I have 18 months left of my 2 year term as a branch secretary. The crew have told me they want me to see out that term, I was elected in Dec 09 so will go though until December 2011. I will get some money from Unite while I complete my duties.

 

After that I will be on my own with 2 teenage kids to support.

 

Obviously getting sacked was not in my plans and although I am not going to starve I am pretty unemployable at my age.

 

However I have to say that I believe in what I did and I would do it again, without a second thought.

 

Striking really is our last option - there has been no where else to go.

 

Sorry Duncan, I had assumed from what they said that Unite had taken you on full time. My bad.

[John B]

That just goes to show you should not believe a lot of what is said.

I am far from "sorted"

For the record I have 18 months left of my 2 year term as a branch secretary. The crew have told me they want me to see out that term, I was elected in Dec 09 so will go though until December 2011. I will get some money from Unite while I complete my duties.

 

After that I will be on my own with 2 teenage kids to support.

 

Obviously getting sacked was not in my plans and although I am not going to starve I am pretty unemployable at my age.

 

However I have to say that I believe in what I did and I would do it again, without a second thought.

 

Striking really is our last option - there has been no where else to go.

 

Heard you on the Victoria Derbyshire wished you had spoken about Pardew and not BA.

 

 

You may think you are doing the right thing but I am sure that loads of people will be inconvenienced and I for one will not be flying BA at the moment.

 

 

BA will ultimately win especially as we now have a Tory Government and I can see very little justification in your stance

 

 

Best Wishes For the Future and I very much admire your Princples and I am certain something will happen to make your future more secure it always does

Edited 12 May, 2010 by John B

[Gingeletiss]

That just goes to show you should not believe a lot of what is said.

I am far from "sorted"

For the record I have 18 months left of my 2 year term as a branch secretary. The crew have told me they want me to see out that term, I was elected in Dec 09 so will go though until December 2011. I will get some money from Unite while I complete my duties.

 

After that I will be on my own with 2 teenage kids to support.

 

Obviously getting sacked was not in my plans and although I am not going to starve I am pretty unemployable at my age.

 

However I have to say that I believe in what I did and I would do it again, without a second thought.

 

Striking really is our last option - there has been no where else to go.

 

Rubbish Duncan, your workforce could of done what most of the private sector done last year, take a hit, grimace, but be thankful they still had a job, many don't now. Mind you, if the members carry on as they are, BA will cease to exist, then they can all stand on corners for real, and say what nasty bosses they had.

 

I'm a member of the same union, I lost £50.00 and a weeks holiday, to save my job, Unite, thought they had done a good deal for us. Mind you, we are only a small firm, not worth the media attention.

Edited 12 May, 2010 by Gingeletiss

[dune]

That just goes to show you should not believe a lot of what is said.

I am far from "sorted"

For the record I have 18 months left of my 2 year term as a branch secretary. The crew have told me they want me to see out that term, I was elected in Dec 09 so will go though until December 2011. I will get some money from Unite while I complete my duties.

 

After that I will be on my own with 2 teenage kids to support.

 

Obviously getting sacked was not in my plans and although I am not going to starve I am pretty unemployable at my age.

 

However I have to say that I believe in what I did and I would do it again, without a second thought.

 

Striking really is our last option - there has been no where else to go.

 

I respect you standing by what you believe is right, but think both you and Unite need to get in the real world. BA is not in the public sector and it needs to compete in a cut throat industry. The old days are gone.

[saintjay77]

Rubbish Duncan, you could of done what most of the private sector done last year, take a hit, grimace, but be thankful you still had a job, many don't now. Mind you, carry on as you are, and BA will cease to exist, then you can all stand on corners for real, and say what nasty bosses you had.

 

I'm a member of the same union, I lost £50.00 and a weeks holiday, to save my job, Unite, thought they had done a good deal for us. Mind you, we are only a small firm, not worth the media attention.

 

I dont think it is Duncan's decission to strike or to do anything else. He was elected to do this job and it sounds like when there is a decission to be made its put to the members. What ever way they vote then its Duncan's job to take it forward.

 

If he does the oposite of what 80% of his members requested then he is not doing his job very well.

 

I still dont like the strike but then I still dont like the way BA have handled it either. For the sake of both sides I think they should get super nanny in to put down a few ground rules to get them all talking properly again.

 

Think both sides could probably give a little leeway and all could be happy with no strikes. Both sides seem to think its the other sides fault that this is not happening but neither side is doing a whole lot to get it all resolved.

 

Dont think Duncan should be jobless because of this though.

[Gingeletiss]

I dont think it is Duncan's decission to strike or to do anything else. He was elected to do this job and it sounds like when there is a decission to be made its put to the members. What ever way they vote then its Duncan's job to take it forward.

 

If he does the oposite of what 80% of his members requested then he is not doing his job very well.

 

I still dont like the strike but then I still dont like the way BA have handled it either. For the sake of both sides I think they should get super nanny in to put down a few ground rules to get them all talking properly again.

 

Think both sides could probably give a little leeway and all could be happy with no strikes. Both sides seem to think its the other sides fault that this is not happening but neither side is doing a whole lot to get it all resolved.

 

Dont think Duncan should be jobless because of this though.

 

You are right, it sounded personal, and it wasn't, it was aimed at the workforce, and I have amended it accordantly.

[saintjay77]

You are right, it sounded personal, and it wasn't, it was aimed at the workforce, and I have amended it accordantly.

 

Didnt think it was personal but thought about saying something before as a few times it has looked like Duncan is taking a bashing from a few people.

 

In this day and age I think its really hard to support strikes. Which is probably why there is so much anti on here.

[buctootim]

Striking really is our last option - there has been no where else to go.

 

Actually maybe taking the deal which would have left BA as still by far the best paid cabin crew in the UK would have been an option. This strike has screwed over the majority of BA staff, the company, the travelling public - and ultimately the strikers themselves - so forgive me if I have limited sympathy for your self inflicted wounds.

[Gingeletiss]

Actually maybe taking the deal which would have left BA as still by far the best paid cabin crew in the UK would have been an option. This strike has screwed over the majority of BA staff, the company, the travelling public - and ultimately the strikers themselves - so forgive me if I have limited sympathy for your self inflicted wounds.

 

 

...and, least we forget, the other members of BA, have all taken a hit, it's only the trolly dollys who think they are a class apart, who are going on strike, and then, if I'm correct, it's only those on long haul. Hell, I hate flying, but I'd do it for the amount they're being offered!

[SFKA South Woodford]

My dad was a believer in unions and I watched these unions damage firms (shipyards dockers the mining industry etc) and I have had a dislike for unions for all of my life. However the 2 sides need to talk etc so I think unions are necessary, unions also do a lot good work. I think this dismissal should be seen in the context of a potental merger and subsequent job losses arising. BA are removing potential trouble makers. The strike for me was always short term pain for long term gain, it was a well executed plan. Lets see how many redundancies follow over the next year, when it happens (as opposed to if it happens) when will you say that enough is enough.

 

What would your stance be if BA made their entire staff redundant and replaced them for example, with Indian staff on very much lower wages etc. Would that be good? Is there ever a case for employees to stand up against the companies they work for? Should we ever try to influence the march of capitalism?

 

I mention this because at the company I work loads of jobs are being offshored (not mine I hasten to add)....so the question is this, when would enough be enough? My answer would be when I see the jobs tat should be available to my kids going lock stock and barrel to people in another country.

 

Outsourcing is a crime, it's hitting so many skilled industries in this country now, it's not just call centres that have been outsourced to India and China, it now includes jobs in software development, including programming and testing. I have worked for companies that have outsourced in the past and can honestly say that as a result the quality of the end product has dropped, particularly in my field of software testing, I have worked alongside people that can speak and understand spoken english but do not have a full grasp of the language and as a result mix ups and misunderstandings happen which can be detrimental to the end product and also time consuming to sort out. Meaning that work has to be double checked, does this really equate to a cost saving for companies that have outsourced?

 

The thing that really takes the p*ss about outsourcing though, is that these companies are now bringing their staff and their families over here on a work visa providing them with a flat and a living allowance on top of their base wage, to work in uk offices and do work which could easily be done by a uk citizen. For a set payment rate that isn't much less than for a company employing their own staff, so it's a trade off, money for quality, and it's the everyday joe in the street that suffers because of that!

 

Now the Tories are in power with their Lib Dem b*tches I can only see this getting worse, as the Tories are all about taking care of their big business chums first and foremost.

 

Whilst I understand market forces and moving with the times, there is also still a need for unions in this country, they have been a force for good and safety in the work place for more than 160 years and have brought about constitutional change and freedoms which most people now take for granted.

 

Good luck to you FF.

[Deano6]

Outsourcing is not a crime. It's a good business practise. Get over yourselves. You are not owed a job.

[Give it to Ron]

Outsourcing is not a crime. It's a good business practise. Get over yourselves. You are not owed a job.

 

How many outsourcing jobs have you been involved with???

[ecuk268]

Outsourcing is not a crime. It's a good business practise. Get over yourselves. You are not owed a job.

 

Outsourced call centres are the work of Satan.

 

I either seem to get an Indian or a Scot and I struggle to understand either of them.

[ottery st mary]

Has Duncan managed to get the miners,dockers and dustmen out yet......When that happens he can be referred to as a Legend...A few trolley dollies is a weekends work..

 

Only joking Duncs...Always thinking of you.

[Saint George]

Outsourcing is a crime, it's hitting so many skilled industries in this country now, it's not just call centres that have been outsourced to India and China, it now includes jobs in software development, including programming and testing. I have worked for companies that have outsourced in the past and can honestly say that as a result the quality of the end product has dropped, particularly in my field of software testing, I have worked alongside people that can speak and understand spoken english but do not have a full grasp of the language and as a result mix ups and misunderstandings happen which can be detrimental to the end product and also time consuming to sort out. Meaning that work has to be double checked, does this really equate to a cost saving for companies that have outsourced?

 

The thing that really takes the p*ss about outsourcing though, is that these companies are now bringing their staff and their families over here on a work visa providing them with a flat and a living allowance on top of their base wage, to work in uk offices and do work which could easily be done by a uk citizen. For a set payment rate that isn't much less than for a company employing their own staff, so it's a trade off, money for quality, and it's the everyday joe in the street that suffers because of that!

 

Now the Tories are in power with their Lib Dem b*tches I can only see this getting worse, as the Tories are all about taking care of their big business chums first and foremost.

 

Whilst I understand market forces and moving with the times, there is also still a need for unions in this country, they have been a force for good and safety in the work place for more than 160 years and have brought about constitutional change and freedoms which most people now take for granted.

 

Good luck to you FF.

 

Instead of being a 'winging pom' ........Maybe you, Duncan et el, should ask your selves 'why' are companies Outsourcing in the first place?

 

Lemme give you a hint.......The over inflated and grossly over protected British workforce offer little 'value', when compared to work forces of a lot of other Nations......Until peeps recognize this fact and do something about it, Companies are going to continue to be tempted into Outsourcing more and more...

 

You complain about some of the problems faced when companies 'Outsorce' and yet it's still a better option than employing localy...That tells you everything you need to know right there.

 

Make it an easier decision for a company to employ 'locally' and most will.........Adopt a 'Duncan' like attitude and kiss your jobs goodbye.

 

'Fraid to say it really is as simple as that

 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Remember that a guy has lost his living here. Whatever the ins and out they fought pretty dirty and left FF on the scrap heap. I can only wish him well in finding new work.

[fish fingers]

Remember that a guy has lost his living here. Whatever the ins and out they fought pretty dirty and left FF on the scrap heap. I can only wish him well in finding new work.

 

As will many BA staff if the company goes tits up as a result. People will be taking their business elsewhere.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

As will many BA staff if the company goes tits up as a result. People will be taking their business elsewhere.

 

I am not aquainted with the full details of the dispute but my gut reaction was indeed why shoot yourself in the foot but if you bring it down to a personal level then I feel for FF. I also particularly disapprove of the way in which their PR machine has dealt with individuals in a ruthless way.

[Give it to Ron]

Instead of being a 'winging pom' ........Maybe you, Duncan et el, should ask your selves 'why' are companies Outsourcing in the first place?

 

Lemme give you a hint.......The over inflated and grossly over protected British workforce offer little 'value', when compared to work forces of a lot of other Nations......Until peeps recognize this fact and do something about it, Companies are going to continue to be tempted into Outsourcing more and more...

 

You complain about some of the problems faced when companies 'Outsorce' and yet it's still a better option than employing localy...That tells you everything you need to know right there.

 

Make it an easier decision for a company to employ 'locally' and most will.........Adopt a 'Duncan' like attitude and kiss your jobs goodbye.

 

'Fraid to say it really is as simple as that

 

 

Really...well let me tell you that in the 4 cases of outsourcing I have been involved in where the skilled work was taken away from the "The over inflated and grossly over protected British workforce offer little 'value', when compared to work forces of a lot of other Nations" it has been rehoused in nearly all situations back to that useless local workforce you spout on about because the level of service was appalling!!

But hey thats American companies for you (3 of these situations) they don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to common sense!!!

[Saint George]

Really...well let me tell you that in the 4 cases of outsourcing I have been involved in where the skilled work was taken away from the "The over inflated and grossly over protected British workforce offer little 'value', when compared to work forces of a lot of other Nations" it has been rehoused in nearly all situations back to that useless local workforce you spout on about because the level of service was appalling!!

But hey thats American companies for you (3 of these situations) they don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to common sense!!!

 

That's good then...at least you're safe in the knowledge that after Duncan and Co have seen off BA and the rest. It will only be a matter of time before they uproot again and come crawling back, just like all the others

 

[Ponty]

Why do we have to have that picture in every post, SG?

[badgerx16]

Why do we have to have that picture in every post, SG?

"World champions" of a sport that only the USofA play to any effective level

[Ponty]

TbH, I'd ask anyone posting an irrelevant photo in every post to stop.

[trousers]

 

Really...well let me tell you that in the 4 cases of outsourcing I have been involved in where the skilled work was taken away from the "The over inflated and grossly over protected British workforce offer little 'value', when compared to work forces of a lot of other Nations" it has been rehoused in nearly all situations back to that useless local workforce you spout on about because the level of service was appalling!!

But hey thats American companies for you (3 of these situations) they don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to common sense!!!

I can concur with this. I'm working on a project at the moment where the 'legacy' staff are (educated estimate) having to work three times as hard as five years ago to make up for the ineptitude of the "cheaper" on-shore and off-shore outsource resources. (not that they weren't working 'hard' in the first place)

 

The trouble is, the powers that be see a low chargeout rate on a spreadsheet somewhere but don't see the impact in the shop floor.

 

The project I'm working on is over-running by c.4 months and the lions share of that is due to outsourcing.

 

It's a complete false economy run by people with a vested interest to keep the outsourcing contracts going,

[hypochondriac]

TbH, I'd ask anyone posting an irrelevant photo in every post to stop.

 

Yeah please do.

[Arizona]

TbH, I'd ask anyone posting an irrelevant photo in every post to stop.

 

I dunno. Reckon it could catch on.

 

[saintjay77]

I dunno. Reckon it could catch on.

 

 

prwned!!!

[benjii]

I thought posting prawn was infractible?

[Gorgiesaint]

Outsourced call centres are the work of Satan.

 

I either seem to get an Indian or a Scot and I struggle to understand either of them.

 

As someone who used to be a manager in a call centre in Scotland, this made me lol

[buctootim]

I thought posting prawn was infractible?

 

No, thats clam.

[saint1977]

Outsourcing is not a crime. It's a good business practise. Get over yourselves. You are not owed a job.

 

No, but the quality that the customer recieves in services or goods takes a dramatic dive. I have stopped using companies that outsource their customer service as I feel as paying customer that I deserve at least to be able to understand in English what is being said to me! Outsourcing can also divorce customer needs is less obvious ways so that one-sized fits all become fits no-one.

 

I have mixed views on Unions but they do have a role and senior positions have to feel the pain and take a slightly reduced profit so that when the economy upturns they are ready to grow. Don't believe everything the Daily Mail tells you.

[saint1977]

I can concur with this. I'm working on a project at the moment where the 'legacy' staff are (educated estimate) having to work three times as hard as five years ago to make up for the ineptitude of the "cheaper" on-shore and off-shore outsource resources. (not that they weren't working 'hard' in the first place)

 

The trouble is, the powers that be see a low chargeout rate on a spreadsheet somewhere but don't see the impact in the shop floor.

 

The project I'm working on is over-running by c.4 months and the lions share of that is due to outsourcing.

 

It's a complete false economy run by people with a vested interest to keep the outsourcing contracts going,

 

I also make a living from project management and agree with you from my own experience. Breakdown companies have stopped using overseas call centres as the staff couldn't read the sat nav and the poor motorists were stranded for hours! You can be as cheap as you want but if you can't deliver the service it is irrelevant.

[CB Saint]

Here is Willie Walsh's explaination - emailed today

 

 

 

As you are undoubtedly aware, Unite, the trade union that represents British Airways' cabin crew has announced further strike action.

 

I wanted to update you on the situation and thank you for your continued loyalty and support.

 

We were saddened but not surprised that Unite has announced plans for strikes that span 23 days including the May bank holiday and half term. I can assure you that this action will not ground British Airways.

 

Unite officials continue to show a callous disregard for our customers. A small minority act as if they want to destroy BA and the jobs of thousands of their colleagues. And just when the UK economy needs help to get back on its feet, Unite will deal it another blow.

 

The offer on the table is very fair. It includes a guaranteed pay rise for the next two years, meets the union's concerns on crewing levels, access to routes and maintains a standard of living that reflects the value and service our cabin crew deliver to our customers.

 

During the last two periods of industrial action, thousands of staff from across the airline, including volunteers, kept British Airways flying and we flew more than half a million customers to their destinations.

 

We are confident that many cabin crew will again ignore Unite's pointless strike call and support the efforts of the rest of the airline.

 

On the strike dates we will operate all London Gatwick and London City services. At Heathrow we plan to operate a substantial part of our longhaul schedule. There will also be a number of daily flights to every destination across our shorthaul network.

 

We are talking to other airlines about leasing in extra aircraft to support our shorthaul schedule and we will buy thousands of seats from other airlines to help our customers rebook if their original flight is cancelled.

 

I fully appreciate that information is critical during such a period so we will regularly update ba.com with details of our revised schedule and options available.

 

Your support, patience and understanding during the recent months have been invaluable and I would like to thank you in advance for your continued loyalty in support of our business.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

[trousers]

Here is Willie Walsh's explaination - emailed today

 

 

 

As you are undoubtedly aware, Unite, the trade union that represents British Airways' cabin crew has announced further strike action.

 

I wanted to update you on the situation and thank you for your continued loyalty and support.

 

We were saddened but not surprised that Unite has announced plans for strikes that span 23 days including the May bank holiday and half term. I can assure you that this action will not ground British Airways.

 

Unite officials continue to show a callous disregard for our customers. A small minority act as if they want to destroy BA and the jobs of thousands of their colleagues. And just when the UK economy needs help to get back on its feet, Unite will deal it another blow.

 

The offer on the table is very fair. It includes a guaranteed pay rise for the next two years, meets the union's concerns on crewing levels, access to routes and maintains a standard of living that reflects the value and service our cabin crew deliver to our customers.

 

During the last two periods of industrial action, thousands of staff from across the airline, including volunteers, kept British Airways flying and we flew more than half a million customers to their destinations.

 

We are confident that many cabin crew will again ignore Unite's pointless strike call and support the efforts of the rest of the airline.

 

On the strike dates we will operate all London Gatwick and London City services. At Heathrow we plan to operate a substantial part of our longhaul schedule. There will also be a number of daily flights to every destination across our shorthaul network.

 

We are talking to other airlines about leasing in extra aircraft to support our shorthaul schedule and we will buy thousands of seats from other airlines to help our customers rebook if their original flight is cancelled.

 

I fully appreciate that information is critical during such a period so we will regularly update ba.com with details of our revised schedule and options available.

 

Your support, patience and understanding during the recent months have been invaluable and I would like to thank you in advance for your continued loyalty in support of our business.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

Ok, time to cut to the chase....Can someone please articulate, in a few succinct bullet points, what it is the union are asking for and not getting?

Thanks

[mdearlove]

Ok, time to cut to the chase....Can someone please articulate, in a few succinct bullet points, what it is the union are asking for and not getting?

Thanks

 

From what I can understand they are arguing over the non-contracted free flights now.

 

Pretty much everyone in my company who usually fly BA (we have 400,000 staff) from the UK have changed to other airlines. I have to fly to Bangalore in India and the only direct carrier is BA. I preferred to book a flight that takes 15 hours via Doha, than the direct flight because of the possibility of another BA strike. I am glad I did as 2 days after booking these ridiculous 5 day strikes were announced. BA is going to go down the pan and Virgin will become the national carrier if it carries on

[trousers]

 

From what I can understand they are arguing over the non-contracted free flights now.

 

 

Do we know if these 'free flights' were originally offered as a supplement to their salary or have they always been offered as a potentially retractable perk?

[Gingeletiss]

Do we know if these 'free flights' were originally offered as a supplement to their salary or have they always been offered as a potentially retractable perk?

 

They were warned, go on strike, you lose this perk, they went on strike. Are we to believe, that they are now going on strike again, in protest at loosing a perk, that quite rightly they lost last time.

 

No wonder this country is in such a bloody state, and our industry prefers to operate abroad, where they don't get this kind of sh1t.

[mdearlove]

Do we know if these 'free flights' were originally offered as a supplement to their salary or have they always been offered as a potentially retractable perk?

 

Pretty much all airlines offer these perks to their staff - they are a perk, not a contracted benefit usually. I worked for Virgin for a few years and several people lost their free flights for disciplinary reasons.

 

BA could turn around and stop the program altogether to save money and the staff would have to accept it or leave.

 

EDIT: Just reading some more info about the perks related to the strike - BA have offered the strikers their free flights back - but they will lose their seniority. Basically this means that they go to the back of the priority list regardless if how long they have been with the company. This makes the strike even more ridiculous.

Edited 13 May, 2010 by mdearlove

[JackanorySFC]

I will never personally book with BA long haul again following these strikes. Absolutely stupid reason to strike, I work in the private sector and in the last 2 years we have lost 30% of our head count and those that have remained have not had a pay cut. I work for an organisation bigger than BA, not a small/ medium sized business. However, I havn't complained, I've got on with my job and adapted - the alternative is simple, take redundancy (or be forced to), leave and find another job in the middle of a huge recession. No thansk, I appreciate my company is losing money and needs to cut it's cloth to return to profitability and I and my colleagues need to play our part.

 

My companies internal travel department now book all trans-atlantic flights to and from our Head Office in New York through Virgin rather than BA due to these strikes.

[hamster]

TbH, I'd ask anyone posting an irrelevant photo in every post to stop.

 

Yeah please do.

 

I dunno. Reckon it could catch on.

 

 

prwned!!!

 

I thought posting prawn was infractible?

 

No, thats clam.

 

Shellfish in the extreme

[trousers]

 

Yeah please do.

 

I dunno. Reckon it could catch on.

 

 

prwned!!!

 

I thought posting prawn was infractible?

 

No, thats clam.

 

Shellfish in the extreme

 

Molluscs

[Viking Warrior]

Good Cod

 

Somebody moaning about irrelevent pictures

 

Im so squid of it

[Give it to Ron]

I can concur with this. I'm working on a project at the moment where the 'legacy' staff are (educated estimate) having to work three times as hard as five years ago to make up for the ineptitude of the "cheaper" on-shore and off-shore outsource resources. (not that they weren't working 'hard' in the first place)

 

The trouble is, the powers that be see a low chargeout rate on a spreadsheet somewhere but don't see the impact in the shop floor.

 

The project I'm working on is over-running by c.4 months and the lions share of that is due to outsourcing.

 

It's a complete false economy run by people with a vested interest to keep the outsourcing contracts going,

 

 

Not wanting to hijack this FF thread but some good points here that I want to add to your great post - India are beginning to shoot themselves in the foot.

Salaries are now rising, there is a shortage of certain skills and resource, there is not the loyalty you get from Western Hemisphere staff and we have seen that they stay 6 months get trained and then bugger off for £10 a month more!

Coupled with complete billy b0ll0cks on their CV we have even heard them rustling pages in manuals when interviewing over the phone!

A number of our projects have moved from India to China now there is a country to be worried about - great quality from them so far.

sh

[SFKA South Woodford]

Not wanting to hijack this FF thread but some good points here that I want to add to your great post - India are beginning to shoot themselves in the foot.

Salaries are now rising, there is a shortage of certain skills and resource, there is not the loyalty you get from Western Hemisphere staff and we have seen that they stay 6 months get trained and then bugger off for £10 a month more!

Coupled with complete billy b0ll0cks on their CV we have even heard them rustling pages in manuals when interviewing over the phone!

A number of our projects have moved from India to China now there is a country to be worried about - great quality from them so far.

sh

 

Have experienced this as well Ron, especially the part about cv's. At one of the companies that I used to work for, my boss had three Indians turn up on seperate days for interviews with the exact same cv and when asked questions about some of the products that they had supposedly worked on, none of them had a clue and one of them even admitted the cv was that of one of his 'friends' then there was another instance with an Indian guy who claimed that he had worked for the company before, had an interview and could not only not tell the interviewer which products he had previously worked on, but also couldn't tell them what the company produced.

[Thedelldays]

I am thinking of leaving Virgin Media as they now have an Indian call centre

[aintforever]

I refuse to speak to indian call centres out of principle.

[Thedelldays]

I refuse to speak to indian call centres out of principle.

I had a problem with my film package and when I called, I could not understand a thing the person on the other end of the phone was saying...it seems they have a flow chart or a set of FAQs to go off...and if you sway off they cant help..

 

one tried telling me his name was john....ffs