That Cameron matey looks about....

[1976_Child]

... ready to lead our country.

 

He has my vote.

 

He may not have told me how he is going to deal with the following, but given him, Clegg or Tosser (Brown), he is the best of the bunch:

 

So Dave, you get my vote (or who ever is the Conservative Parliamentary Prospective Candidate for the constituency of Hove.. the bugger still hasn't come round to introduce himself) but how will you deal with the following:

 

1. Peak Oil

2. Resource depletion in basic commodities, and ensuing price volatility

3. UK's current account deficit, and how we buy in those resources we need without a long term strategy to keep our currency strong

4. Private debt saturation; we the public have no appetite or ability to borrow more to sustain the consumption economy.

4. Unfunded promises of a comfortable retirement for those baby-boomers now retiring

5. Unfunded promises of ever-increasing health care and nursing-home requirements for aged citizens who's adult children are too busy earning a crust and paying their taxes to care for them within their own homes.

 

6. in conjunction with 3) above, the fact that we have to buy in more, and more, of our energy from overseas whilst not offering 'them' much in return

 

7. Militant Islam. Be honest Dave, how come we still have ghettos of third generation immigrants from Pakistan, Bangladesh etc where they still speak their own languages and dress themselves - and their womenfolk - provocatively to my culture. But yet third generation Indian, Sikh, far-eastern, wind-rush black and all others have managed willingly to become truly English.

 

8. The EU.

 

Mr Cameron, you have my vote, but don't take it for granted. If you haven't grasped the sh.i.t storm about to confront you if you get the keys to Number 10 then you really should. The next twenty years are going to be like nothing we have ever encountered before. Your slogan is 'Change You Can Believe In'. Well whatever, big change is coming our way if you win or not.

 

Good luck mate, you had better be prepared.

Edited 5 May, 2010 by 1976_Child

[LVSaint]

The post you made further down the page recently, made much better sense.

 

Written large across the ballot paper words to the effect of:

 

"You are all fornicating masterbaters and only in it for what you can get out of it. I would rather eat my own feces than take part in this sham democratic process when you are all completely the ****ing same"

 

Think that will do the trick and let them know that my vote is for none of them?

 

 

Question is, when did the 'born again Tory' moment occur for you? What did it feel like?

Edited 5 May, 2010 by LVSaint

[AndyNorthernSaints]

... ready to lead our country.

 

He has my vote.

 

He may not have told me how he is going to deal with the following, but given him, Clegg or Tosser (Brown), he is the best of the bunch:

 

So Dave, you get my vote (or who ever is the Conservative Parliamentary Prospective Candidate for the constituency of Hove.. the bugger still hasn't come round to introduce himself) but how will you deal with the following:

 

1. Peak Oil

2. Resource depletion in basic commodities, and ensuing price volatility

3. UK's current account deficit, and how we buy in those resources we need without a long term strategy to keep our currency strong

4. Private debt saturation; we the public have no appetite or ability to borrow more to sustain the consumption economy.

4. Unfunded promises of a comfortable retirement for those baby-boomers now retiring

5. Unfunded promises of ever-increasing health care and nursing-home requirements for aged citizens who's adult children are too busy earning a crust and paying their taxes to care for them within their own homes.

 

6. in conjunction with 3) above, the fact that we have to buy in more, and more, of our energy from overseas whilst not offering 'them' much in return

 

7. Militant Islam. Be honest Dave, how come we still have ghettos of third generation immigrants from Pakistan, Bangladesh etc where they still speak their own languages and dress themselves - and their womenfolk - provocatively to my culture. But yet third generation Indian, Sikh, far-eastern, wind-rush black and all others have managed willingly to become truly English.

 

8. The EU.

 

Mr Cameron, you have my vote, but don't take it for granted. If you haven't grasped the sh.i.t storm about to confront you if you get the keys to Number 10 then you really should. The next twenty years are going to be like nothing we have ever encountered before. Your slogan is 'Change You Can Believe In'. Well whatever, big change is coming our way if you win or not.

 

Good luck mate, you had better be prepared.

 

Good luck if you need the help from the NHS or care services in the future or find yourself unemployed.

[Johnny Bognor]

Good luck if you need the help from the NHS or care services in the future or find yourself unemployed.

 

To be fair, that applies to whoever gets in power. The cuts coming from any of the parties will be in the region of 25%....that is going to hurt no matter who makes them.

[GenevaSaint]

To be fair, that applies to whoever gets in power. The cuts coming from any of the parties will be in the region of 25%....that is going to hurt no matter who makes them.

 

We've been here already Johnny. We all know cuts are coming, but it's all about what party you trust to deliver those cuts. For me, it'll never be the Conservatives.

[Johnny Bognor]

We've been here already Johnny. We all know cuts are coming, but it's all about what party you trust to deliver those cuts. For me, it'll never be the Conservatives.

 

So if you don't think they will deliver the cuts, can you explain the leftie hysteria regarding "good luck if you need healthcare / lose your job".

 

Either the tories won't make the cuts as some on the left suggest, in which case there is no need to worry about such issues, or they will make the cuts which goes against what the left are saying.

 

It seems those on the left are scaremoungering that the cuts are going to be devastating, while at the same time saying that they don't trust the tories to make them.

 

The left can't have it both ways.

[Scummer]

Good luck if you need the help from the NHS or care services in the future or find yourself unemployed.

 

Remind me, which party has ring-fenced NHS spending?

[GenevaSaint]

So if you don't think they will deliver the cuts, can you explain the leftie hysteria regarding "good luck if you need healthcare / lose your job".

 

Either the tories won't make the cuts as some on the left suggest, in which case there is no need to worry about such issues, or they will make the cuts which goes against what the left are saying.

 

It seems those on the left are scaremoungering that the cuts are going to be devastating, while at the same time saying that they don't trust the tories to make them.

 

The left can't have it both ways.

 

I do believe that all parties will deliver cuts, I just have a feeling that the Tory cuts will be in areas that hurt wider part of the population such as schooling and the NHS.

 

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, we'll have to wait and see!

[GenevaSaint]

Remind me, which party has ring-fenced NHS spending?

 

And you believe that!

[View From The Top]

And you believe that!

 

Tories don't lie, not ever. Nope, not them.

 

It was in the Mail.

[Johnny Bognor]

I do believe that all parties will deliver cuts, I just have a feeling that the Tory cuts will be in areas that hurt wider part of the population such as schooling and the NHS.

 

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, we'll have to wait and see!

 

I think a lot of job "losses" will be brought about through natural wastage, rather than making people redundant.

 

Therefore, not as many people will 'lose' their jobs as is being reported. It will, however, mean that the people working in areas where people are not replaced will have to pull their fingers out and work a bit harder, as many in the private sector have been doing over the last 18-24 months.

[dune]

Labour never lie, they promised us a referendum and they gave us one.

[GenevaSaint]

Therefore, not as many people will 'lose' their jobs as is being reported. It will, however, mean that the people working in areas where people are not replaced will have to pull their fingers out and work a bit harder, as many in the private sector have been doing over the last 18-24 months.

 

The one thing I can agree with you on Johnny. ;-) For all me leftist tendancies, I do believe parts the public sector have had a relatively easy ride since the financial crisis began.

[View From The Top]

I think a lot of job "losses" will be brought about through natural wastage, rather than making people redundant.

 

Therefore, not as many people will 'lose' their jobs as is being reported. It will, however, mean that the people working in areas where people are not replaced will have to pull their fingers out and work a bit harder, as many in the private sector have been doing over the last 18-24 months.

 

Some parts of the public sector did start doing that a while ago JB, or at least those employing some foresight.

[Fuengirola Saint]

To be fair, that applies to whoever gets in power. The cuts coming from any of the parties will be in the region of 25%....that is going to hurt no matter who makes them.

 

Yes but it depends on where they are made.

[Fuengirola Saint]

So if you don't think they will deliver the cuts, can you explain the leftie hysteria regarding "good luck if you need healthcare / lose your job".

 

Either the tories won't make the cuts as some on the left suggest, in which case there is no need to worry about such issues, or they will make the cuts which goes against what the left are saying.

 

It seems those on the left are scaremoungering that the cuts are going to be devastating, while at the same time saying that they don't trust the tories to make them.

 

The left can't have it both ways.

 

Oh they'll make the cuts it's just that in my opinion the poorest will bear the brunt

[Fuengirola Saint]

Labour never lie, they promised us a referendum and they gave us one.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent but they can get around it by claiming quite correctly it was a different treaty to which they had promised the referendum

[buctootim]

Labour never lie, they promised us a referendum and they gave us one.

 

Brown led a rebellion against Blair on the referendum and Blair had to back track. Bet that doesnt seem like such a good move to him now!

[Johnny Bognor]

Oh they'll make the cuts it's just that in my opinion the poorest will bear the brunt

 

Do you honesty think that if the lib dems or labour made the cuts, the poorest will not bear the brunt?

 

I think they will be ****ed over regardless

[1976_Child]

The post you made further down the page recently, made much better sense.

 

 

 

 

Question is, when did the 'born again Tory' moment occur for you? What did it feel like?

 

I had a long hard think about it. I am fed up with the state of politics generally. We have got a Perfect Sh!t Storm rapidly approaching and none, not even the Tories, have the faintest idea of what to do about it. I am not just talking about the debt/deficit. I am talking about our very way of life and relationship with physical resources. The world and the country this century is going to be a very, very different place to live than the post-war world. But all we hear is 'we must return to Growth' blah blah blah.

 

I believe we need strong leadership to get us off this absurd race for consumptive Growth at exponential rates which, in a finite world, is not possible. The mathematics will not work. The question is, can we transition to a stable-state economy without first having a bloody revolution, world war and a period of dictatorship.

 

So, given all my reservations about the Tories I do believe that Cameron offers the strongest leadership out of a poor bunch. There is nothing ideological about my position. The Labour party is simply a busted flush and Clegg is just not believable. He looks like a school prefect and his policies are six-form debating society level only.

 

This decade is going to be tough. We ain't going back to the credit-fueled false 'growth'. We are at the point where the mathematics of our monetary system breaks down, where global resources (and energy in particular) switch from being abundant and cheap to scarce and expensive and we have a population which has come to expect all the creature comforts provided by economic expansion and plentiful resources. When the populace realises that that is at an end they will be angry.

 

So I am voting Conservative but have not much hope for Business As Usual.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Good luck if you need the help from the NHS or care services in the future or find yourself unemployed.

 

Yes because there is a magic fairy who is going to off all of our debts. Borrowing this year will be the highest as a percentage of GDP in Europe.

[1976_Child]

Good luck if you need the help from the NHS or care services in the future or find yourself unemployed.

 

Andy, your point may have had merit back in the 80s/90s - I say may, but I have never believed that the Labour party have been good stewards of the health service. But the problem with your way of thinking is that the whole game has changed. People really need to understand that what we are faced with now, as per my post just above, is like nothing we have ever experienced before. What we are witnessing is the last throw of the dice by all parties. Taking even the 'official' Treasury figures and cross-referencing with the Labour party's pledges there is still a massive £60 BILLION of spending cuts needed. These are official numbers, and I strongly believe that, just as was the case with Greece, the true extent of the problem is much, much worse.

 

So what is this number? £60 BILLION worth of additional cuts and/or tax rises will only eliminate what is called the structural deficit - that is the difference between the government's spending and income when the economy is growing robustly at a constant 3.5% per year in real terms (after inflation). There is another £90 BILLION of deficit to deal with if the country does in fact not experience growth of 3.5% per year for the next 20 years. Once again, these are official Treasury numbers, not some made-up propaganda from the other parties.

 

Now here's the conundrum. What is the outcome if any one of the following happens:

 

a) net of inflation, the economy does not grow at a steady 3.5% per year each and every year for the next 20 years? (btw, there has never ever been two decades of uninterrupted growth in history)

 

b) very real constraints of energy and resources in this 'globalized' world mean that GDP growth is not possible anymore. This is a big subject but one that we overlook at our peril

 

c) the sheer scale of the cuts/tax rises creates a net negative effect on the value of transactions (GDP) in the economy, thus creating a negative feedback cycle where actually less jobs are available, less taxes are collected and more government spending is required for benefit programs. This is kinda what Brown has been alluding to when he talks about not wanting to cut too soon. The problem is he is being disingenuous because he knows that this scenario will play out whenever he does get round to cutting and even if it does not actually cause a recession whenever he cuts/rises taxes it will impact negatively on GDP

 

d) we experience what is known as a 'black swan' event. This is something so significant and yet totally unexpected such as the recent volcano. By its very nature a black swan event can not be planned for but none the less it is something to be mindful about.

 

I will answer my own question like this: we are in utterly uncharted territory. Don't be fooled with weasel words saying that our problems are 'not as bad as other countries'. Frankly, all western countries are in the same boat and it matters not who is relatively better placed. Also, it is just not true; we are much worse shape than pretty much every other country.

 

I wish from the bottom of my heart that it were not so; unfortunately history shows that things do not always improve inexorably towards some Nirvana of plenty and happiness. History is littered with epoch turning points, where societies are forced to confront the stark realities before them. We are at such a turning point now.

 

Finally, as Einstein said: "You don't solve problems with the same thinking which got you into it in the first place". I quite agree.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I find it sad that we have so many Saints fans who are Tories on here. I blame it on the 'Thatcher generation' 'I'm all right' F_u_c_k everyone else' brigade.

[1976_Child]

I find it sad that we have so many Saints fans who are Tories on here. I blame it on the 'Thatcher generation' 'I'm all right' F_u_c_k everyone else' brigade.

 

Andy, why don't you try replying to my post above rather than throw insults around.

 

I am voting Tory, I am not 'a' Tory. And I certainly do not have the attitude that I'm all right so stuff everyone else. Quite the opposite. I am not all right. I am dirt poor, haven't got a bean to my name and am really struggling to make a living. I do however have a brain, and I can see what is coming.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Andy, why don't you try replying to my post above rather than throw insults around.

 

I am voting Tory, I am not 'a' Tory. And I certainly do not have the attitude that I'm all right so stuff everyone else. Quite the opposite. I am not all right. I am dirt poor, haven't got a bean to my name and am really struggling to make a living. I do however have a brain, and I can see what is coming.

 

 

It was not meant as an insult to you personally. Just find it sad that people are taken in by 'Dave' and his 'Big Society' spill. Maybe it's because i work as a care professional and am old enough to have witnessed what the previous Tory government did to people and this country.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I am old enough to remember what the last labour Govt did to this Country, and of course we all know what this one did.

[Joensuu]

Andy, why don't you try replying to my post above rather than throw insults around.

 

I am voting Tory, I am not 'a' Tory. And I certainly do not have the attitude that I'm all right so stuff everyone else. Quite the opposite. I am not all right. I am dirt poor, haven't got a bean to my name and am really struggling to make a living. I do however have a brain, and I can see what is coming.

 

I find myself in wholehearted agreement with your posts, but I don't share your solution. We are in an awful mess, and the decisions of the next parliament will be critical. However the idea of George Osborne having his hand on the treasury tiller fills me with dread. Either one of Grandpa Vince or the android with eyebrows would give me more confidence than George Gideon "Run on the Pound" Deripaska House Flipper Oliver Osborne.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I am old enough to remember what the last labour Govt did to this Country, and of course we all know what this one did.

Did they declare war on the working class people of this country and privatise everything but the air?

[Scummer]

However the idea of George Osborne having his hand on the treasury tiller fills me with dread. Either one of Grandpa Vince or the android with eyebrows would give me more confidence than George Gideon "Run on the Pound" Deripaska House Flipper Oliver Osborne.

 

The Financial Times and The Economist don't share your views, and you'd think this would be their area of expertise.

[Joensuu]

The Financial Times and The Economist don't share your views, and you'd think this would be their area of expertise.

 

Perhaps they know something we don't. Or perhaps they sense the way the majority of their readership will vote, and want to keep their sales figures high? Gosh, a company acting in their own best interests, whatever next? (Now why was it that the Sun switched alligences again?)

 

Strange how little we have heard from future Baronet Osborne this election campaign. According to the Tories own site he has only made 2 speeches in the past month (does he not realise there is a campaign going on, or is he being kept at arms length from the public?)http://www.conservatives.com/News/SpeechList.aspx?SearchType=NewsAuthor&SearchTerm=e13c8b46-fe2e-47fb-8efd-ff04f9d95f2e

[Lord Duckhunter]

Did they declare war on the working class people of this country and privatise everything but the air?

 

I'm sure you dont want a history lesson on the Callaghan govt.

 

 

 

All Labour Govt's put tax up and run out of money, and this one was no different.

[GenevaSaint]

All Labour Govt's put tax up and run out of money, and this one was no different.

 

Can we also summise then, that all Conservative governments f-u-c-k over the poor, make the rich richer and generally destroy public services like the NHS?

[GenevaSaint]

The Financial Times and The Economist don't share your views, and you'd think this would be their area of expertise.

 

Even some of the most ardent Tory supporters on this forum don't rate Osbourne. I really hope he's got some great advisers in the wings.

[Johnny Bognor]

It was not meant as an insult to you personally. Just find it sad that people are taken in by 'Dave' and his 'Big Society' spill. Maybe it's because i work as a care professional and am old enough to have witnessed what the previous Tory government did to people and this country.

 

Not all tories are I'm alright and **** everybody else.

 

My politics are driven out of creating wealth for all and the private sector is the only way to do it. In doing so, you need to support and encourage this sector to create the wealth for re-distribution later. The problem with the socialist way, is it is often about taxing the **** out of everyone without thinking of the bigger picture.

 

One way in which we can reduce the impact of the forthcoming cuts is to get private sector businesses going. This will create new jobs and the all important tax revenues - the greater the impact of this, the lesser the impact of the cuts as there will be more revenue (thus reducing the cuts that are required) and more employment, thus taking on those who have lost their jobs from the public sector.

 

For me, it is a total no brainer as to what we need to do. The state cannot grow anymore (we can't afford it) whereas the private sector can, so where are the policies to achieve this?

 

Labour certainly don't "get it", as HE thinks reducing NI is taking 6 billions out of the economy. HE is either stupid or lying.

[1976_Child]

It was not meant as an insult to you personally. Just find it sad that people are taken in by 'Dave' and his 'Big Society' spill. Maybe it's because i work as a care professional and am old enough to have witnessed what the previous Tory government did to people and this country.

 

Ok, no problem.

 

So as a care professional (I take it you mean you look after the elderly and infirm?) do you really think that the Labour party has done a good job of preparing the country for what was so obviously a distorted demographic profile even 30 years ago? Let me be brutally honest; no party got it right, because all politicians - indeed the democratic process itself - is geared to short termism and quick fixes rather than look at the problems we have holistically.

 

Here's why we are in the mess we are in with regard to care for the elderly:

 

1. After the second world war, to cut a long story short, the monetary system changed. Money (the stuff you have in your wallet) fundamentally changed. [i'm using some poetic license here; technically sterling changed between the wars, but for the purposes of the global monetary system sterling post-war also changed with Bretton Woods]

 

2. At about the time that young women were being 'liberated' in the 60's and early 70's the monetary system of the US, changed as well. It became a debt-based monetary system and not a gold-backed system. (btw, I am not necessarily advocating a gold standard here, but these are the facts). So what does this have to do with women? Well, once the monetary system became debt-based, and again I am taking some liberties here and skipping over quite a chunk of detail, but basically inflation in almost every thing took off. Suddenly it became necessary to have two adults working full time to pay the family's bills. This coincided neatly with the rising women's rights movement (which was itself spawned from the embers of WW2) and so here we are now with a middle class where most two-parent households have two adult incomes. Now, I am not making any moral or philosophical argument for or against women in the work force; these are the facts.

 

2b) Initially women took on careers because they wanted to - it was a break from the traditional housewife existence - but now, they might still want to work but the majority also need to work.

 

3) So we now have a situation where the monetary and economic systems demand that we have exponential growth in the total value of all transaction in the economy (GDP) and we have an 'all hands on deck' attitude to employment. Everyone must be productive! And the value of production can only ever be measured in monetary terms! And we have crazy situations such as good friends of mine (husband, wife, three young girls). Husband is a well paid executive earning about 50K. Wife is a registered nurse. They were both working all hours they could until one day they sat down and realised that her income from nursing, net of tax and travel costs, was barely covering the costs of child care and after school baby-sitting!

 

At the other end of the age spectrum, where families were once dependent upon one income, and the concept of a 'nuclear family' of parents and children only living together was not the norm but the exception, now we have the situation that the productive economy (as judged by money) is called upon to pay for service such as you provide. And the blunt, bare mathematics of the situation fall over when confronted with the demographics. You are doing an absolutely vital job, but in previous years it would not have been expected that the money-based economy would pay for it; families and communities would have provided the care.... but now they can't because everyone needs to be 'productive' and earn money.

 

Maybe this has been a convulted way to explain it. But the salient point here is that in order to fix the problems we face today we need to look at the entire economic and monetary system we humans have built. An you can only do that by first stepping away from the existing mindset.

 

If you have a spare hour, you should watch this:

 

 

it is American, and everything is referenced to America but it is exactly paralleled with our experiences in Britain.

Edited 5 May, 2010 by 1976_Child

[Fuengirola Saint]

I'm sure you dont want a history lesson on the Callaghan govt.

 

 

 

All Labour Govt's put tax up and run out of money, and this one was no different.

 

I don't think Callaghan did that badly for a Skate, he got inflation down to 8.9% from 25%, and unemployment was falling when he left office as well.

[solentstars]

Did they declare war on the working class people of this country and privatise everything but the air?

don,t forget the poll tax where a millionaire paid the same as a low paid worker and trickle down economics rubbish and 2 terrible recessions with mass unemployment,massive vat increases ,underfunding of schools etc.

it was a great time for the greedy but alot of people suffered under the tories in the 80,s hence cameron trying to appeal to the centre ground and not wanting to be linked to the 80.s torys.

[1976_Child]

don,t forget the poll tax where a millionaire paid the same as a low paid worker and trickle down economics rubbish and 2 terrible recessions with mass unemployment,massive vat increases ,underfunding of schools etc.

it was a great time for the greedy but alot of people suffered under the tories in the 80,s hence cameron trying to appeal to the centre ground and not wanting to be linked to the 80.s torys.

 

And the last decade hasn't been good for the rich?!! Come off it. The gap between rich and poor has widened massively since Labour came to power. Not to mention the fact that fat-cat trade union bosses like Bob Crow are paid more than 100k and that uber-socialist John Prescott likes to play croquet and live in a mock-tudor detached house with ten acres of land. The Tories in the 80s may well have made it easier for their buddies to get their noses in the trough but New Labour have done exactly the same in the 2000s

[Draino76]

Not all tories are I'm alright and **** everybody else.

 

My politics are driven out of creating wealth for all and the private sector is the only way to do it. In doing so, you need to support and encourage this sector to create the wealth for re-distribution later. The problem with the socialist way, is it is often about taxing the **** out of everyone without thinking of the bigger picture.

 

One way in which we can reduce the impact of the forthcoming cuts is to get private sector businesses going. This will create new jobs and the all important tax revenues - the greater the impact of this, the lesser the impact of the cuts as there will be more revenue (thus reducing the cuts that are required) and more employment, thus taking on those who have lost their jobs from the public sector.

 

For me, it is a total no brainer as to what we need to do. The state cannot grow anymore (we can't afford it) whereas the private sector can, so where are the policies to achieve this?

 

Labour certainly don't "get it", as HE thinks reducing NI is taking 6 billions out of the economy. HE is either stupid or lying.

 

 

Bravo sir.

[trousers]

 

Perhaps they know something we don't. Or perhaps they sense the way the majority of their readership will vote, and want to keep their sales figures high? Gosh, a company acting in their own best interests, whatever next? (Now why was it that the Sun switched alligences again?)

 

Strange how little we have heard from future Baronet Osborne this election campaign. According to the Tories own site he has only made 2 speeches in the past month (does he not realise there is a campaign going on, or is he being kept at arms length

 

Whereas Alastair Darling has been plastered all over our TV screens for 4 weeks solid.....

[trousers]

 

Can we also summise then, that all Conservative governments f-u-c-k over the poor, make the rich richer and generally destroy public services like the NHS?

No. HTH

[trousers]

Did they declare war on the working class people of this country and privatise everything but the air?

 

Quiz of the Week:

 

Name 3 privatised industries that were more efficient/effective whilst nationalised? (whilst noting the degredation of the few services that weren't - for example the Royal Mail)

[1976_Child]

Quiz of the Week:

 

Name 3 privatised industries that were more efficient/effective whilst nationalised? (whilst noting the degredation of the few services that weren't - for example the Royal Mail)

 

Parliament?

 

[trousers]

 

Parliament?

 

 

Hehe... :-)

 

And the follow up question....

 

Name three industries that the Tories privatised that Labour had desires to re-nationalised over the last 13 years?

[Joensuu]

Whereas Alastair Darling has been plastered all over our TV screens for 4 weeks solid.....

 

Perhaps the think tanks think swing voters will be scared by the eyebrows.

 

When Darling became Chancellor, I thought he was just a stooge for Brown to keep power in no.11. He looked as wet as a lemon in a monsoon, and I can picture him spending his spare time collecting train numbers or rare stamps. But to be fair to the chap he has actually started to muscle himself into a niche almostly playing Brown and King off against each other. Much as I couldn't bring myself to vote Labour, his quite, reasoned approach to running a economy in such turmoil has been a pleasant surprise. Perhaps I am wrong to judge Osborne (just as I was wrong to judge Darling), but frankly the though of Osborne mucking it up scares me (the Tories would have won this election already with Clarke in place IMO).

[1976_Child]

Perhaps the think tanks think swing voters will be scared by the eyebrows.

 

When Darling became Chancellor, I thought he was just a stooge for Brown to keep power in no.11. He looked as wet as a lemon in a monsoon, and I can picture him spending his spare time collecting train numbers or rare stamps. But to be fair to the chap he has actually started to muscle himself into a niche almostly playing Brown and King off against each other. Much as I couldn't bring myself to vote Labour, his quite, reasoned approach to running a economy in such turmoil has been a pleasant surprise. Perhaps I am wrong to judge Osborne (just as I was wrong to judge Darling), but frankly the though of Osborne mucking it up scares me (the Tories would have won this election already with Clarke in place IMO).

 

I actually think that Darling really does get it - that is the mess the country's finances are in. I think he has been held back by Brown but secretly really wants to stamp his authority on the previous budget. Alas, it was not to be. Darling is actually one of the very few Labour ministers (past and present) who looks like a decent honest bloke, not some slimy little boot-spittle like the rest of them appear.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Quiz of the Week:

 

Name 3 privatised industries that were more efficient/effective whilst nationalised? (whilst noting the degredation of the few services that weren't - for example the Royal Mail)

 

Quiz for you Mr Trousers

 

Name the organisation responsible for delivering match tickets for our wembley trip?

 

How many people have got MRSA in hospitals since private cleaning agencies were bought in?

 

How efficient and cheap is rail travel in this country?

 

Why has this county had to buy coal from other countries?

 

What was the effect on local authorities after he intoduction of a 'marketisation' policy by Tory governments during the 80/90's regarding social care provision?

 

How many criminals have Group 4 managed to lose

 

How many older people suffer abuse and neglect at the hands of private care providers and nursing/residential homes?

 

How may people are happy with the customer service they receive from their gas and water companies?

[Joensuu]

Quiz of the Week:

 

Name 3 privatised industries that were more efficient/effective whilst nationalised? (whilst noting the degredation of the few services that weren't - for example the Royal Mail)

 

Privatisation isn't the evil that the left wing makes out, nor is it the economic miracle the right herald. IMO there is a very basic rule that makes privatlisation successful: can this industry operate in a real market, or will it function as a sudo-monopoly?

 

Where real market forces have been able to work on an industry, generally it has become more efficient. Where this is impossible the sudo-monopoly has ended up becoming a cash cow for the share holders, and a political disaster.

 

For example:

 

A post delivery service can operate under real market conditions, and can be run effectively in a competative market. The government only needs to ensure that all delivery companies are unable to refuse services or raise prices for outlying areas (i.e. people living in lower value postal regions, such as Orkney don't suffer as a result of the privatisation).

 

A train network is divided into regions. As most routes only have a single operator, there is no competition, and in effect each company operates it's own monopoly. Running a single route with multiple operators vieing for slots would create a market, but also a legistical nightmare ('your train was deliberately running slow, so that mine missed it's allocated slot' etc). As such, no true market can be established. This will result in spiraling fairs for passengers, which can only be capped by central government capping fairs or creating quangos and fining offending companies. Unfortunately, as the network is essential, the government can't allow it to collaspe, therefore the regional monopolies can easily pay their shareholders, then run up operating losses which the state is forced to bail out.

[1976_Child]

Quiz for you Mr Trousers

 

1. Name the organisation responsible for delivering match tickets for our wembley trip?

 

2. How many people have got MRSA in hospitals since private cleaning agencies were bought in?

 

3. How efficient and cheap is rail travel in this country?

 

4. Why has this county had to buy coal from other countries?

 

5. What was the effect on local authorities after he intoduction of a 'marketisation' policy by Tory governments during the 80/90's regarding social care provision?

 

6. How many criminals have Group 4 managed to lose

 

7. How many older people suffer abuse and neglect at the hands of private care providers and nursing/residential homes?

 

8. How may people are happy with the customer service they receive from their gas and water companies?

 

1. Do you mean the Football Association? WTF?? Don't get where you are coming from here.

 

2. Too many, for sure. But why are nurses less likely to roll up their sleeves and get the cleaning done themselves. Could it be that job is now thought to be beneath them? How did that culture ever take hold and who was responsible. Sure as heck Flo Nightingale would not have let the wards get dirty!

 

3. Errr, pretty darn good actually. Better that Railtrack (or whatever they are now called) is once again 'nationalised' but the train companies are doing a good job imho.

 

4. Well, first of all and contrary to popular myth, there is not a lot of the stuff left under Britain. At least not anthracite. And that which is left is either a long way under ground and in pretty shallow seams - which makes it very expensive to mine - or it is near the surface and in areas of outstanding natural beauty which would not really benefit from open cast mining. I know it would be a wonderful thing if we still had a strong coal industry but wishing it were so does not make it so

 

5. Fairly chaotic, granted. Somethings should never be privatised but that doesn't mean they have to be sloppily run.

 

6. Again, prisons should never be private for-profit.

 

7. Come off it, the state owned infirmaries and nursing care was hardly blameless in this regard.

 

8. I have to be frank, I am happy. Well actually I guess it is more a case of me not being unhappy. In the case of the water companies these are not actually privatised in the true sense of the word. Yes they have share holders and are 'for profit' but they are still under real firm control from the state and 'customers' can't switch water supplier.

[Joesaint]

I'm Voting Cameron too