Gordon's bank bailout was the brave work of genius

[Wade Garrett]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100422-714029.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope

 

Big profit to come thanks to Gordon's brave decisions. Cameron would have let them die, he is a pygmy.

 

And before anyone says it was down to lax regulation on the banks in the first place, remember Cameron and his Party were campaigning for this to happen anyway.

[Thedelldays]

why would cameron let them die

 

where has he said this..?

[Wade Garrett]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/4092926/Second-bank-bailout-plans-condemned.html

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/election/election-2010-news/2010/04/28/election-2010-we-got-it-wrong-on-bailing-out-the-banks-admits-top-tory-kenneth-clarke-86908-22217613/

 

Not him directly, but his Chancellor elect, and a former Chancellor.

[Thedelldays]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/4092926/Second-bank-bailout-plans-condemned.html

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/election/election-2010-news/2010/04/28/election-2010-we-got-it-wrong-on-bailing-out-the-banks-admits-top-tory-kenneth-clarke-86908-22217613/

in the papers..must be true

[Wade Garrett]

in the papers..must be true

 

Sad.

[CB Fry]

....

Edited 3 May, 2010 by CB Fry

[buctootim]

Brown or Darling (whichever it was) should be given a lot of credit, not just for the bailouts, which were totally essential - the UK economy would have been devastated without them - but for the way in which they were done - taking shares in the banks.

 

In Ireland for example the government took the 'bad bank option' which means the taxpayer is on the hook for a huge % of GDP and the banks are having to sell all overseas assets - including those which generate a profit - which further weakens their capital position.

[buctootim]

Err - did you actually read the second link you posted? It's Ken Clarke saying the govt were right to nationalise.

 

ALISTAIR DARLING decision to nationalise the failing banks was right, Tory heavyweight Kenneth Clarke admitted yesterday.

Clarke vindicated the Chancellor as he answered questions on the bailout of Northern Rock.

He said: "I think they were right to nationalise it."

 

But Ken Clarke doesnt speak for the leadership. KC is very astute, unlike the tory front bench finacial team.

[CB Fry]

But Ken Clarke doesnt speak for the leadership. KC is very astute, unlike the tory front bench finacial team.

 

Damn, I knew someone would quote me. Forget it, I agree with the OP - the terminology of "brave work of genius" led me to believe he was taking the ****. It was the right decision to nationalise but "brave work of genius" is pushing it.

[OldNick]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100422-714029.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope

 

Big profit to come thanks to Gordon's brave decisions. Cameron would have let them die, he is a pygmy.

 

And before anyone says it was down to lax regulation on the banks in the first place, remember Cameron and his Party were campaigning for this to happen anyway.

The warnoings of Northern Rock didnt make them make moves to stop the dealings immediately, as for the profit Lol, it wouldnt even cover the loss on the gold price he cost us by selling it nunpence.

[View From The Top]

why would cameron let them die

 

where has he said this..?

 

 

He wouldn't have intervened and let them fail.

 

Osbourne went around with his mouth flapping but nowt coming out.

 

Ken Clarke put a spanner in the tory works by saying that the Government had done the right thing.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

in the papers..must be true

 

You and dune certainly believe what you read in the Mail etc etc?

[GenevaSaint]

in the papers..must be true

 

TDD, it was in the ToryGraph not just any paper.

[Johnny Bognor]

It was the right call to nationalise the banks, however I would have preferred him to do it out of the rainy day fund (oh yes, there wasn't one), rather than borrow / mortgage us to the hilt to do it.

 

I would also like to add that it is the long suffering Northern Rock mortgage holders that paid for the bailout by paying extortionate rates in order for the govt to claw back some of their 'loan'

Edited 3 May, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[aintforever]

It's impossible to say wether it's the right call at the moment, the economy is still in a world of sh!t and we have a similar national debt to Geece.

[sperm_john]

i was gonna say ...work of genius? we are hardly living in some utopia .. how can anyone make judgements like that yet? its just slander to make people thing browns done a better job than he really has ...what about the other issues? e.g. immigration ....yeah browns a genius

[dune]

Was running a bugdget deficit through the boom times (because Gordon had eliminated the possibility of boom and bust) the work of a genious?

 

When i think of Prudence Browns management of the economy this nursey rhyme keeps springing to mind...

 

Old Mother Hubbard

Went to the cupboard

To get her poor doggie a bone,

When she got there

The cupboard was bare

So the poor little doggie had none.

[View From The Top]

It's impossible to say wether it's the right call at the moment, the economy is still in a world of sh!t and we have a similar national debt to Geece.

 

You what? It's that call, supported by senior sensible tories, that stopped us making Greece looked successful!

 

We are already in profit regarding the value of Barclays shares and in time HBOS will be the same.

 

Letting them fail wasn't an option (part of me wanted them to fail so the smug, smary banking fooookers would really suffer).

[aintforever]

You what? It's that call, supported by senior sensible tories, that stopped us making Greece looked successful!

 

We are already in profit regarding the value of Barclays shares and in time HBOS will be the same.

 

Letting them fail wasn't an option (part of me wanted them to fail so the smug, smary banking fooookers would really suffer).

 

It's still too early to say if it's been a success. Short term it was definitely the right thing to do but long term we could just be making things worse IMO.

 

The ecomomy is ****ged, the banks are still paying out billions in bonuses and playing roulette with our money. Brown has just borrowed a fortune and printed more money - not exactly the work of a genius.

 

We can say it's been a success when we've paid of our debt and sorted banks out, at the moment Brown has not even tried to do either.

[View From The Top]

It's still too early to say if it's been a success. Short term it was definitely the right thing to do but long term we could just be making things worse IMO.

 

That is some of the most bizarre economic reasoning I've come across in a very long time.

[Johnny Bognor]

You what? It's that call, supported by senior sensible tories, that stopped us making Greece looked successful!

 

We are already in profit regarding the value of Barclays shares and in time HBOS will be the same.

 

Letting them fail wasn't an option (part of me wanted them to fail so the smug, smary banking fooookers would really suffer).

 

 

We didn't bail out Barclays. HTH

[OldNick]

We didn't bail out Barclays. HTH

Yep,HBOS will be a long time getting us money back. I did read at the time of the crash that Brown said that they had bought derivatives 3 years ahead (all toxic) We will be paying for that

[dune]

It pains me to say it but I agree with Brown that we need a global agreement on banking because unilateral measures will simply see London decline as the hub of world finance. If London declines then the tax revenue declines and we will essentially be shooting ourselves in the foot.

[View From The Top]

We didn't bail out Barclays. HTH

 

Sorry Mr Bognor, I meant Lloyds. Barclays advert on the TV as I typed. Who said advertising doesn't get to you when it's in the background.

[Johnny Bognor]

Sorry Mr Bognor, I meant Lloyds. Barclays advert on the TV as I typed. Who said advertising doesn't get to you when it's in the background.

 

 

Thats OK Mr Top. It is worth noting that Lloyds predicament wasn't helped by Brown 'persuading' them to take over the car crash that was HBOS.

Edited 3 May, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[View From The Top]

The banks are too big, this is obvious. How we deal with it is less so.

 

Also, we should seperate the retail banking system from the investment arms but again, how this is done is less than obvious.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not a brave move at all, it was the only possible decision. Interestingly the share price of RBS is almost up to what the government paid. We go a couple of banks on the cheap!

[Fuengirola Saint]

The warnoings of Northern Rock didnt make them make moves to stop the dealings immediately, as for the profit Lol, it wouldnt even cover the loss on the gold price he cost us by selling it nunpence.

 

Hasn´t he made that up with the appreciation of the Euro against the pound since then?

[OldNick]

Hasn´t he made that up with the appreciation of the Euro against the pound since then?

If he had kept the money stored in the BOE like he would have the gold, but it has been spent. Gold is sold in dollars, and so it makes it all the worse as he sold the gold for dollars, then bought the Euros with those. Lol ps gold has more than trebled since he sold the gold and so whatever currency he bought will not make much difference.

[dune]

If he had kept the money stored in the BOE like he would have the gold, but it has been spent. Gold is sold in dollars, and so it makes it all the worse as he sold the gold for dollars, then bought the Euros with those. Lol ps gold has more than trebled since he sold the gold and so whatever currency he bought will not make much difference.

 

The mistake he made when selling the gold was that he advertised he was going to sell off a huge amount. Because the exchanges knew there was going to be an imminent glut of bullion on the market it naturally sent the spot price crashing prior to the sale. Brown was an incoptetent fool to do this when the prudent way of selling is to do it gradually so the price isn't adversely affected. Gold is currently trading at just under $1200/troy Oz, what did Brown sell at?

[OldNick]

The mistake he made when selling the gold was that he advertised he was going to sell off a huge amount. Because the exchanges knew there was going to be an imminent glut of bullion on the market it naturally sent the spot price crashing prior to the sale. Brown was an incoptetent fool to do this when the prudent way of selling is to do it gradually so the price isn't adversely affected. Gold is currently trading at just under $1200/troy Oz, what did Brown sell at?

As far as im aware it has not been published, but at the time the market was depressed already without us flooding it

[dune]

GATHERED around a table in one of the Bank of England’s grand meeting rooms, the select group of Britain’s top gold traders could not believe what they were being told.

 

Gordon Brown had decided to sell off more than half of the country’s centuries-old gold reserves and the chancellor was intending to announce his plan later that day.

 

It was May 1999 and the gold price had stagnated for much of the decade. The traders present — including senior executives from at least two big investment banks — warned that Brown, who was not at the meeting, could barely have chosen a worse moment.

 

In the room, just behind the governor’s main office, they cautioned that gold traditionally moved in decades-long cycles and that the price was likely to increase. They added that even if the sale were to go ahead, the timings and amounts should not be announced, as the gold price would plunge.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1655001.ece

[dune]

As far as im aware it has not been published, but at the time the market was depressed already without us flooding it

 

It was advertised because Brown knew better than the experts. He decied to auction the bullion against the advise of experts and he decided to auction it all at the same time. By the very fact this is the method he used to sell the gold it was advertised in advance.

[revolution saint]

Bailing out the banks was pretty much the only thing we could have done. Not saving them would have resulted in the entire banking system collapsing but fair play Labour recognised it early enough and did it. Long term we'll probably break even on the deal. I don't remember the Tories saying they'd do much differently except maybe moan, whinge and take a bit longer to come to the same conclusion.

[OldNick]

It was advertised because Brown knew better than the experts. He decied to auction the bullion against the advise of experts and he decided to auction it all at the same time. By the very fact this is the method he used to sell the gold it was advertised in advance.

The price achieved is worse than i had thought. As you say gold is now 1200 $ ours was sold for $256 and $296 an ounce, with an average of $275.

Prudent and a man of substance.

Interesting but not unsurprising that even with the freedom of information act the info is not released. Not in the public interest apparently.....not in Browns interest IMO

[aintforever]

The banks are too big, this is obvious.

 

Wasn't it Brown's idea for Lloyds to takeover HBOS, creating a really really big bank?

[dune]

The banks are not too big. Northern Rock failed and it was not a big bank. The problem is that they invested unwisely and lost. Just look at the Spanish banks such as Santander - they behaved prudently and were not affected at all by the toxic assets.

[View From The Top]

The banks are not too big. Northern Rock failed and it was not a big bank. The problem is that they invested unwisely and lost. Just look at the Spanish banks such as Santander - they behaved prudently and were not affected at all by the toxic assets.

 

The main voices in the sector, across the globe disagree. Some are so big that countries can't risk them failing and so they know they have a safety net.

 

Santander seperate their retail from investment and it's a good model.

 

The main investment banks in The City have a net worth greater than our GDP according to Moneybox on R4

[View From The Top]

Wasn't it Brown's idea for Lloyds to takeover HBOS, creating a really really big bank?

 

Sorry, should have explained myself better. By big I mean investment banks like Goldman Sachs and the like.

 

HBOS needed a buyer that had both retail and investment arms so the choices were limited.

[GenevaSaint]

Sorry, should have explained myself better. By big I mean investment banks like Goldman Sachs and the like.

 

HBOS needed a buyer that had both retail and investment arms so the choices were limited.

 

VFTT, are you advocating that we try to split up Goldmans and the like? When the politicians have spoken about splitting up big banks, it's always been the retail arm away from the IB side of things.

[View From The Top]

VFTT, are you advocating that we try to split up Goldmans and the like? When the politicians have spoken about splitting up big banks, it's always been the retail arm away from the IB side of things.

 

With the investment banks I'm talking about limiting their size (this is the current US view on them) as they've become so big nations can't afford to let them fail.

[OldNick]

I was thinking last night that had Brown sold the gold now not when he did, that would have given 8-10billion more to our economy. The NI increase plus 2billion+ more to put into the system. Frightening, the most expensive PM of all time perhaps.

[dune]

I was thinking last night that had Brown sold the gold now not when he did, that would have given 8-10billion more to our economy. The NI increase plus 2billion+ more to put into the system. Frightening, the most expensive PM of all time perhaps.

 

Did Browns incompetence cost the country more than black Wednesday?

[buctootim]

I was thinking last night that had Brown sold the gold now not when he did, that would have given 8-10billion more to our economy. The NI increase plus 2billion+ more to put into the system. Frightening, the most expensive PM of all time perhaps.

 

Did Browns incompetence cost the country more than black Wednesday?

 

If the Governments shares in RBS and Lloyds are sold in three years time UK taxpayer will likely be able to sell the stake for a profit of over £50 billion.

[aintforever]

If the Governments shares in RBS and Lloyds are sold in three years time UK taxpayer will likely be able to sell the stake for a profit of over £50 billion.

 

Nice crystal ball you have there, should have lent it to Brown before he flogged all our gold for a fraction of it's worth.

[solentstars]

i think history will show that brown and governments around the world did the right thing of saving the banking system and pumping money back into the ecnomomys or we could have had another 1930s depression.

my problem with the labour party is that they have in power to long and like the conservatives before them they have run out of ideas.

[OldNick]

If the Governments shares in RBS and Lloyds are sold in three years time UK taxpayer will likely be able to sell the stake for a profit of over £50 billion.

Buctotim, I dont know if you have any savings, but the banks are borrowing money for less than 1%. Even the worst goon in the world could make profits on that.

Yes the banks are being reinvigorated at the cost of the people who have been prudent and put aside a few quid. In normal trading the interest earned by the nations savers would be taxed and no doubt billions of tax would be earnt from that. it is not just a one way system.

By the way it is a perhaps we will get that profit. Take into account all the money that has been printed that has to be paid back so LLoyds etc can make that money after lending at extortionate profits.

Give me a billion at 0-1% and Id make you billions in return.

[aintforever]

i think history will show that brown and governments around the world did the right thing of saving the banking system and pumping money back into the ecnomomys or we could have had another 1930s depression.

 

Brown did what any government would have done because the banks basically put a gun to his head.

 

There is nothing to say we will not have a 1930's type depression, all we have done so far is borrowed and printed money, the economy is bound to LOOK like it's recovering.

[View From The Top]

 

There is nothing to say we will not have a 1930's type depression, all we have done so far is borrowed and printed money, the economy is bound to LOOK like it's recovering.

 

The banks being saved stopped a depression.

[OldNick]

The banks being saved stopped a depression.

 

I hope that there will not be one here. I hadn't known until about 6 months ago that it was 3 years before the depression set in the 30's.

It was not instant but took time to work its way through. Scary stuff if you think about it, as we must be about 2-2 1/2 years into the crisis now.