3rd Televised debate

[aintforever]

Unsurprisingly that's total and utter bullsh*t.

 

I'm sorry but I've heard countless horror stories from people who work in the public sector, and in my business have experienced the public sector "blank cheque" culture.

 

I know public sector workers who have been sent on pointless courses at tax payers expense, employees with over 40 days holiday a year, contracts given out by the public sector that my mates said they could "just make up a price". Just had a look on the Echo site and a bloke fell off his bike hurting his head and Four police cars and six police officers were on the scene! - all very nice and reassuring, but all paid for by you and me.

 

The public sector need to wake up and realise that severe cuts need to be made, the whole attitude is one of wastage and completely alien to anyone who works in the real commercial world.

[solentstars]

I think the Lib Dems have got it right on tax, we need to heavily tax the rich and have no tax for the first 10K to reward people who get off their ass and do low paid jobs instead of sitting around getting benefits.

 

I think the Tories have got it right in making scything cuts in public services but would never vote for them because they are essentially a bunch of snobs whose only concern is keeping hold of their stacks of cash.

i agree instead of lining the pockets of the likes of ashcroft and the super rich

no tax for the first 10K to reward people who get off their ass and do low paid jobs instead of sitting around getting benefits would be great start..

[View From The Top]

The public sector need to wake up and realise that severe cuts need to be made, the whole attitude is one of wastage and completely alien to anyone who works in the real commercial world.

 

I'm amazed at how clueless you are.

 

Still, you've heard things and read things in the paper so everyone who works in the public sector must be really wasteful, have no concept of savings or ever worked in the commercial world and just loves wasting money.

[aintforever]

I'm amazed at how clueless you are.

 

Still, you've heard things and read things in the paper so everyone who works in the public sector must be really wasteful, have no concept of savings or ever worked in the commercial world and just loves wasting money.

 

My opinions are mainly based on facts I've heard from people who work in the public sector - most of these people admit that loads is wasted. And first hand experience of dealing with contracts for the business I work in.

[View From The Top]

My opinions are mainly based on facts I've heard from people who work in the public sector - most of these people admit that loads is wasted. And first hand experience of dealing with contracts for the business I work in.

 

 

 

Not disputing that there is waste and to much of it but to say most don't care and have no idea is, frankly, b*ll*cks.

 

I spend 1/2 my working week "in" the public sector, and have done for the last few years so my opinion is based on everyday experience.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not disputing that there is waste and to much of it but to say most don't care and have no idea is, frankly, b*ll*cks.

 

I spend 1/2 my working week "in" the public sector, and have done for the last few years so my opinion is based on everyday experience.

I too have experience of the public sector and I have seen nothing to make me change my views. Health, education, police, I have never seen anyone working at what I would consider a normal and efficient pace. My views are based on what I have seen and experienced, not on what I have read.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm amazed at how clueless you are.

 

Still, you've heard things and read things in the paper so everyone who works in the public sector must be really wasteful, have no concept of savings or ever worked in the commercial world and just loves wasting money.

How many times have you come across the situation where 'the budget has not been spent so we had better use it up or we shall have it reduced next year'?

[View From The Top]

How many times have you come across the situation where 'the budget has not been spent so we had better use it up or we shall have it reduced next year'?

 

 

Every year, but those decisions are driven by Whitehall/Head Honchos and not the providers/front line staff who would sooner kitty it up and use it when required.

 

The vast majority of front line staff know how and where to save money and are best placed to do so and it's an absolute fallacy to suggest that everyone working in the public sector is happy to waste money or have no idea of the commercial world.

[View From The Top]

I too have experience of the public sector and I have seen nothing to make me change my views. Health, education, police, I have never seen anyone working at what I would consider a normal and efficient pace. My views are based on what I have seen and experienced, not on what I have read.

 

But your opinion is always that only the private sector counts and anyone working in the public sector is a workshy commie.

 

In my experience the frontline staff are committed, passionate and bloody hardworking.

 

I would love to know how you judge a normal and efficent pace regarding education say in a inner city comprehensive?

[Whitey Grandad]

But your opinion is always that only the private sector counts and anyone working in the public sector is a workshy commie.

 

I have never said that, but there are some public agencies whose disappearance would hardly be noticed.

 

In my experience the frontline staff are committed, passionate and bloody hardworking.

 

Not so in mine. We have obviously had different experiences.

 

I would love to know how you judge a normal and efficent pace regarding education say in a inner city comprehensive?

It's an overall observation of all aspects of the 'worker' and how they handle the job situation. Do they operate in an organised manner, what is their body language, even down to how quickly they move.

[Whitey Grandad]

Every year, but those decisions are driven by Whitehall/Head Honchos and not the providers/front line staff who would sooner kitty it up and use it when required.

 

The vast majority of front line staff know how and where to save money and are best placed to do so and it's an absolute fallacy to suggest that everyone working in the public sector is happy to waste money or have no idea of the commercial world.

Moving away from any concept of prejudice or preconception, it is readily apparent that we cannot continue to fund the public sector at existing levels. So if someone from above were to say to every public body, 'you will receive 10% less funding next year' ask yourself what the consequences would be, and not just in city educational establishments.

[View From The Top]

Moving away from any concept of prejudice or preconception, it is readily apparent that we cannot continue to fund the public sector at existing levels. So if someone from above were to say to every public body, 'you will receive 10% less funding next year' ask yourself what the consequences would be, and not just in city educational establishments.

 

My budget is being cut by 30% in anticiption of what is to come.

 

It will make no impact on my (an my teams) ability to teach successfully but it will impact on the support given to students as that's where I'll cut.

 

It's about maintaining core standards to me.

[View From The Top]

It's an overall observation of all aspects of the 'worker' and how they handle the job situation. Do they operate in an organised manner, what is their body language, even down to how quickly they move.

 

What a loads of sh*t.

 

A time and motion study in an inner city comp' is possibly the dumbest thing I've read on TSW and that's saying something.

[Whitey Grandad]

My budget is being cut by 30% in anticiption of what is to come.

 

It will make no impact on my (an my teams) ability to teach successfully but it will impact on the support given to students as that's where I'll cut.

 

It's about maintaining core standards to me.

Good for you.

[Whitey Grandad]

What a loads of sh*t.

 

A time and motion study in an inner city comp' is possibly the dumbest thing I've read on TSW and that's saying something.

I didn't say time & motion study, you must not let your preconceptions influence what you read. There's no harm in seeing things from an alternative perspective. You seem to judge my general comments about our vast public sector by your experience of an inner-city comprehensive. Even so, I'm sure you could take a look around next time you're working and you'll identify those who are strolling through their working life and those who are (I hesitate to put it this way but I can't think of a less confrontational expression) 'putting in a fair day's work'.

[Wes Tender]

I'm amazed at how clueless you are.

 

Still, you've heard things and read things in the paper so everyone who works in the public sector must be really wasteful, have no concept of savings or ever worked in the commercial world and just loves wasting money.

 

And many more at amazed at how clueless you are. Of course the waste isn't the fault of those who work as minnions in the public sector, but if you believe for one minute that those who run the public services are innocent of massive waste, then you are one seriously deluded individual. You only have to look at the job descriptions and pay rates advertised in the Guardian for a start to give you some idea of the madcap bureaucracy that exists, the Quangos, the extra layers of bureaucrats that could be slashed. And yes. you're right. Many of the heads of these bureaucracies have not worked in the commercial world. They run empires of pen-pushers and often if they don't spend their budget during a set timescale, they lose it, so they spend it on fripperies so that their power base and their empire is not eroded.

 

Yes Minister was a satire with more than an element of truth to it.

[saintfully]

All this talk about waste in the public sector ignores the fact that the financial problems that we face now are primarily due to the waste of money by the PRIVATE sector. The credit crisis was begun by the issuing of sub-prime mortgages in the US - which over-valued assets. When an asset is over-valued and bought for too much money, the excess is waste. Our economy is now fu.cked because the private sector was awash with waste - money which was not invested effectively (just as in the public sector, an inefficient workforce is not good value). For an analogy, think about how money football clubs have wasted on over-priced players over the years - anyone think that the 4 million (I think) we spent on Delgado was the best use of that money.... or was it wasted?

 

My point is that for every efficient company in the private sector, there is another failing cause its wasted its money. Poor productivity is everywhere.

 

(I have worked in both sectors by the way... the only one I havn't tried is not-for-profit/charity/co-ops. Wonder what they're like?)

[Whitey Grandad]

All this talk about waste in the public sector ignores the fact that the financial problems that we face now are primarily due to the waste of money by the PRIVATE sector. The credit crisis was begun by the issuing of sub-prime mortgages in the US - which over-valued assets. When an asset is over-valued and bought for too much money, the excess is waste. Our economy is now fu.cked because the private sector was awash with waste - money which was not invested effectively (just as in the public sector, an inefficient workforce is not good value). For an analogy, think about how money football clubs have wasted on over-priced players over the years - anyone think that the 4 million (I think) we spent on Delgado was the best use of that money.... or was it wasted?

 

My point is that for every efficient company in the private sector, there is another failing cause its wasted its money. Poor productivity is everywhere.

 

(I have worked in both sectors by the way... the only one I havn't tried is not-for-profit/charity/co-ops. Wonder what they're like?)

I think there are similarities bewteen the two situations but the credit crunch and the public sector deficit are two different entities.

[Wes Tender]

All this talk about waste in the public sector ignores the fact that the financial problems that we face now are primarily due to the waste of money by the PRIVATE sector. The credit crisis was begun by the issuing of sub-prime mortgages in the US - which over-valued assets. When an asset is over-valued and bought for too much money, the excess is waste. Our economy is now fu.cked because the private sector was awash with waste - money which was not invested effectively (just as in the public sector, an inefficient workforce is not good value). For an analogy, think about how money football clubs have wasted on over-priced players over the years - anyone think that the 4 million (I think) we spent on Delgado was the best use of that money.... or was it wasted?

 

My point is that for every efficient company in the private sector, there is another failing cause its wasted its money. Poor productivity is everywhere.

 

(I have worked in both sectors by the way... the only one I havn't tried is not-for-profit/charity/co-ops. Wonder what they're like?)

 

And there you highlight the difference between the private and public sectors. Private business is exactly that, companies run by their own appointed boards or owners to make profits for themselves. It is only when they are suppliers of services and product to the general public such as the utilities that there might be need of any government interference. Otherwise the only other Government interference is subsidies to farmers and that sort of thing. Private companies have to be profitable and efficient to survive and thrive. It is the law of the jungle out there for them and the weak go to the wall.

 

In much of the Public Sector, those same conditions do not apply generally, therefore there are not the same incentives and restrictions on their activities and that is why they are often overmanned, wasteful and inefficient. Private companies are only wasting the money of the owners or investors, whereas the public sector is wasting taxpayers money.