The Euro

[pedg]

Their 2005 manifesto gave a commitment to a referendum on the constituation, but they went back on it.

 

Who the lib-dem's? I did not realise they were in power in the last parliament?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Who the lib-dem's? I did not realise they were in power in the last parliament?

 

Nick Clegg ordered his MP's to abstain in the Tory amendment to the ratification.This amendment called for a referendum, and was defeated by 63 votes.29 brave Labour rebels voted to honour their manifesto pledge and 13 Lib/Dems defied their leader and voted to honour their's.

[OldNick]

Well that's pretty unequivocal. Don't see how anyone can have a problem with that other than if you take the view that a plebicite is not an appropriate forum for making that decision as it's too complicated for most people to take an informed view on. If that is your stance then you'd only be concerned if you were in favour of the Euro as a plebicite is much more likely to throw up a "no" vote IMO.

but it is qualified by 'when the economic conditions are right' That could mean anything.

Also with referendums the question/options asked may not fit into how we would like it and so it can be abused.

I felt we should have gone into the Euro when it was about 2 to the £. We would be wealthier now.

I do agree having the ability to devalue is a bonus but we may wish we were in the Euro if the pound starts to fall. Our economy is bankrupt and sooner or later the money markets will turn on us.

[Lord Duckhunter]

but it is qualified by 'when the economic conditions are right' That could mean anything.

 

That's right. It's like Browns "Economic tests" in the '97 Parliament. They were so wooly, that they could be manipulated and bent to suit any outcome. The only condition that the Lib/Dems and Labour want right is the opinion polls. If they think they can win a referendum, the "economic conditions" will suddenly be "right".

[dune]

but it is qualified by 'when the economic conditions are right' That could mean anything.

Also with referendums the question/options asked may not fit into how we would like it and so it can be abused.

I felt we should have gone into the Euro when it was about 2 to the £. We would be wealthier now.

I do agree having the ability to devalue is a bonus but we may wish we were in the Euro if the pound starts to fall. Our economy is bankrupt and sooner or later the money markets will turn on us.

 

If the Tories don't get a majority and become the nasty party that makes savage cuts it won't be long before we end up like Greece.

[OldNick]

If the Tories don't get a majority and become the nasty party that makes savage cuts it won't be long before we end up like Greece.

i dont get your drift there Dune

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

If the Tories don't get a majority and become the nasty party that makes savage cuts it won't be long before we end up like Greece.

 

Savage cuts where? The NHS? Policing? Schools? You'll soon be the one moaning when it takes you 3 weeks to get an appointment with a GP!

[dune]

i dont get your drift there Dune

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/170683/General-Election-2010-Hung-Parliament-will-put-economy-in-danger-warns-Ken-Clarke

[dune]

Savage cuts where? The NHS? Policing? Schools? You'll soon be the one moaning when it takes you 3 weeks to get an appointment with a GP!

 

The public sector needs sorting out and made efficient like the private sector. There are massive savings to be made by getting rid of mountains of bureaucracy.

 

Oh and i've got PPP private healthcare so i won't be worried about queue's. ;-)

[badgerx16]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/170683/General-Election-2010-Hung-Parliament-will-put-economy-in-danger-warns-Ken-Clarke

The only bit I agree with from the article; “The public are seriously disillusioned, cynical and distrustful of politicians,”.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Savage cuts where? The NHS? Policing? Schools? You'll soon be the one moaning when it takes you 3 weeks to get an appointment with a GP!

 

So you think we can just carry on spending. Look at Greece, it comes to a head sooner or later. One thing for sure is that it will be industry that gets us out of this mess not the bloated and ineffective public sector.

[buctootim]

If you want to make a sizable hole in the deficit there needs to be big cuts in the main spenders - pensions, health and social welfare. Whatever any government does, its going to be unpopular.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/government_expenditure.html#ukgs30250

[scotty]

makes no difference to me i,ve used the euro abroad and the pound here and doubt it will effect the average person.

but i expect if you trade in euro zone you need a single currency or you become handicapped when your currency becomes overvalued.

 

Yes it does. If we were in the eurozone, your vote on may 6th would be worth precisely f*ckall. Every election in this country starts with the premise that whatever manifesto pledges any party makes is dependent on the economy delivering the funding for those pledges, which is why the party elected is invariably the party the electorate trusts to run a decent economy. If the UK had no control over our own interest rates or lending/borrowing policy, there would be no point in voting at all; just look at Spain, a freak occurrence like a train bombing, appalling as it was, overturned a massive poll-lead simply because the electorate knew that all the parties were hamstrung by the eurozone rules and that their vote in that regard was simply irrelevant. They werent voting for a government, they voted for a single policy, which incidentally was not carried through when Zapatera (aka Mr Bean) got in.

[View From The Top]

The public sector needs sorting out and made efficient like the private sector. There are massive savings to be made by getting rid of mountains of bureaucracy.

 

This is true. Too much is wasted and there are far too many non-jobs.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The British public are not ready for massive cuts, they are in denial. Hense the reason all 3 parties are skirting round the issue. There is no magic formula for getting the deficit down, it's going to be painful and the sooner the British public get their heads round it the better.

 

Ireland have started, my mate works in St James hospital in Dublin, he's taken a pay freeze and also had or is having (I'm not sure if it's in force yet) a 10% pension levy added. He's in the frontline working in A&E and yet he's taking some of the pain.

 

The Tory's "we're all in this together" phrase is corny and wierd when it comes to this "big society" thing, but when it comes to the deficit, we really are all in it together.To pass debt like this on to future generations is morally wrong in my opinion. We need to knuckle down, take the pain and get it down to reasonable levels.

[Johnny Bognor]

Savage cuts where? The NHS? Policing? Schools? You'll soon be the one moaning when it takes you 3 weeks to get an appointment with a GP!

 

 

Thorpie, I hate to break it to you, but:

 

Vote Labour = massive cuts

Vote Lib Dem = massive cuts

Vote Tory = massive cuts

Hung Parliament = massive cuts (unless they can't get over the squabbling and the IMF will have to bail us out)

 

Better get used to it.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8646612.stm

 

The Tory's "we're all in this together" phrase is corny and wierd when it comes to this "big society" thing, but when it comes to the deficit, we really are all in it together.

 

It should be, "We're all in the **** together" (and that includes the Public Sector)

Edited 27 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[View From The Top]

It should be, "We're all in the **** together" (and that includes the Public Sector)

 

I think the majority understand that.

 

I work closely with a local authority ACL and they've already stopped recruitment won't be filling vacancies and aren't renewing contracts when they expire in addition to making a few bodies redundant.

 

There are still far too many non jobs earning way too much money though. They have an Equality and Diversity Officer earning close to £40k for doing nowt and are overloaded with admin and middle/senior managers.

[Johnny Bognor]

I think the majority understand that.

 

I work closely with a local authority ACL and they've already stopped recruitment won't be filling vacancies and aren't renewing contracts when they expire in addition to making a few bodies redundant.

 

There are still far too many non jobs earning way too much money though. They have an Equality and Diversity Officer earning close to £40k for doing nowt and are overloaded with admin and middle/senior managers.

 

 

There is no money in the pot(ato). We can't keep on borrowing, because it needs to be paid back. Perhaps we cut some of the quangos back, in order to chip away at the defecit. GB has made a hash of the public finances so something has to give. I would rather that the vulnerable and elderly are catered for. Someone needs to come up with something that's not half baked. Have I given you enough clues as to the type of public spending that has contibuted to the mash that we are in?

 

In addition to the non jobs...... this current government has employed over 500,000 EXTRA people in the various quangos (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ame-power.html) since 1997. This 'army' of pen-pushers outnumbers the entire armed forces by a factor of 3 and costs 7 times as much. Do we really need those 500,000 extra pen pushers that we didn't have 13 years ago?

 

I mean, do we really need a Potato Council that costs £6.5m a year? (I suppose in an ideal lefty world, potatoes have rights too). The dumb ****s have even created a British Potato Council website in Welsh FFS http://www.potato.org.uk/welsh-home.html.

 

I suppose we could do away with trident and get good ole Cleggy to stockpile spuds to be lobbed at a future enemy.

 

As far as I am concerned, front line services can be left well alone while all this Labour created bull**** is cleared up.

Edited 27 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[View From The Top]

There is no money in the pot(ato). We can't keep on borrowing, because it needs to be paid back. Perhaps we cut some of the quangos back, in order to chip away at the defecit. GB has made a hash of the public finances so something has to give. I would rather that the vulnerable and elderly are catered for. Someone needs to come up with something that's not half baked. Have I given you enough clues as to the type of public spending that has contibuted to the mash that we are in?

 

In addition to the non jobs......

 

the current government has employed over 500,000 EXTRA people in the various quangos (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ame-power.html) since 1997. This 'army' of pen-pushers outnumbers the entire armed forces by a factor of 3 and costs 7 times as much. Do we really need those 500,000 extra pen pushers that we didn't have 13 years ago?

 

I mean, do we really need a Potato Council that costs £6.5m a year? (I suppose in an ideal lefty world, potatoes have rights too). I suppose we could do away with trident and lob spuds at the enemy instead.

 

The dumb ****s have even created a British Potato Council website in Welsh FFS http://www.potato.org.uk/welsh-home.html.

 

As far as I am concerned, front line services can be left well alone all the while we have crap quangoes like the British Potato Council.

 

I'd get rid of the quangos and non jobs in a heartbeat Johnny, as would the majority of frontline staff.

 

As for the middle/senior managers, there are way, way, way too many of them and it will take someone with balls to cut where it's needed.

[Johnny Bognor]

I'd get rid of the quangos and non jobs in a heartbeat Johnny, as would the majority of frontline staff.

 

As for the middle/senior managers, there are way, way, way too many of them and it will take someone with balls to cut where it's needed.

 

Quangos first, followed by the non jobs.

 

With a little bit of economic growth, the defecit can be significantly reduced.

 

At this rate, I will stand for parliament if it's not too late.

[dune]

Greece's credit rating has today been downgraded to "junk" status, and portugal have also been downgraded to "A-" status. Spain is also vulnerable. Thank god we're not tied in with the this toxic currency.

 

http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/1602986/afternoon-markets-ftse-falls-greek-bonds-rated-junk

[View From The Top]

Quangos first, followed by the non jobs.

 

With a little bit of economic growth, the defecit can be significantly reduced.

 

At this rate, I will stand for parliament if it's not too late.

 

The issue, Johnny, is that many sensible people, including some tories, understand what can and needs to be done but ALL of the main three parties, but the tories in particular, are scared of saying what needs to be done in case it costs them votes. The tories can't risk being seen as "nasty".

 

Some academic from some high falutin organisation, on R5 earlier said that the Libs had declared where 1/4 of their savings would come from, the tories 1/5 and the torie lites 1/8.

 

What sort of choice can people make when they won't tell them the truth?

 

It's a sham campaigned designed not to frighten instead of treating us like grown ups and telling us the truth.

[View From The Top]

Greece's credit rating has today been downgraded to "junk" status, and portugal have also been downgraded to "A-" status. Spain is also vulnerable. Thank god we're not tied in with the this toxic currency.

 

http://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/1602986/afternoon-markets-ftse-falls-greek-bonds-rated-junk

 

Yeah, Germany, France Holland & Benelux are in a terrible state.

 

Oh.

[dune]

What sort of choice can people make when they won't tell them the truth?

 

It's a sham campaigned designed not to frighten instead of treating us like grown ups and telling us the truth.

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3463346/brown-has-the-comprehensive-spending-review-postponed.thtml

[dune]

Yeah, Germany, France Holland & Benelux are in a terrible state.

 

Oh.

 

Who's lending billions to Greece? Who'll lend billions to Portugal further down the line? who'll lend billions to Spain if they too ask for help?

 

Greece have been given "junk" credit status which means that they've been assessed as being likely to default on paying back the money. Now extrapolate these defaults to potentially include Portugal and Spain further down the line and being in the Euro isn't going to be fun for the countries you've mentioned.

[View From The Top]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3463346/brown-has-the-comprehensive-spending-review-postponed.thtml

 

Some academic from some high falutin organisation, on R5 earlier said that the Libs had declared where 1/4 of their savings would come from, the tories 1/5 and the tory lites 1/8.

 

All are guilty.

Edited 27 April, 2010 by View From The Top

[John B]

It's a sham campaigned designed not to frighten instead of treating us like grown ups and telling us the truth.

 

I dont think that is particularly true Darling has said that cuts are going to be very deep

 

The problem is that the election has possibly come at the wrong time if it had been in October growth and unemployment would be known and the actual scale of cuts could then be worked out.

 

Personally I like the idea of Tax increases as well as spending cuts but we will have to see what happens but the problems in the Eurozone are not helping Greece probably entered the Euro without meeting the criteria

[View From The Top]

Who's lending billions to Greece? Who'll lend billions to Portugal further down the line? who'll lend billions to Spain if they too ask for help?

 

Greece have been given "junk" credit status which means that they've been assessed as being likely to default on paying back the money. Now extrapolate these defaults to potentially include Portugal and Spain further down the line and being in the Euro isn't going to be fun for the countries you've mentioned.

 

 

The economies of the nations I mentioned are so robust that they can easily absorb any defaults, especially when time frames are factored in.

 

You seem to forget that West Germany absorbed East Germany.

 

They are more narked that they are having to bail out Med' nations.

 

In addition, using your flawed logic, if Spain and Portugal don't default and there is currently little to suggest they will, (although I except the possibility) the nations I mention will remain stable prosperous and growing and so the € would be nothing but a roaring success for them.

[solentstars]

I dont think that is particularly true Darling has said that cuts are going to be very deep

 

The problem is that the election has possibly come at the wrong time if it had been in October growth and unemployment would be known and the actual scale of cuts could then be worked out.

 

Personally I like the idea of Tax increases as well as spending cuts but we will have to see what happens but the problems in the Eurozone are not helping Greece probably entered the Euro without meeting the criteria

i agree greece should not have been allowed to enter the euro only ,the strong country's which meet the criteria should have been allowed to join.

[John B]

i agree greece should not have been allowed to enter the euro only ,the strong country's which meet the criteria should have been allowed to join.

 

Yes I think they cheated apparently

[scotty]

i agree greece should not have been allowed to enter the euro only ,the strong country's which meet the criteria should have been allowed to join.

 

 

the greeks were allowed to pile in as a sop to them, nobody ever believed they had a viable economy. The idea was to reconcile the cyprus situation, of course as soon as they were in they changed their minds about accomodating the turks. (amazingly)

 

Another example is italy. Ive nothing against the italians, in fact im married to one, but their economy did not meet the suppposed criteria for entry into the euro; the big players just decided that they were better inside the tent plssing out then outside the tent plssing in. The euro project is such a stitch-up I cant believe anybody here still thinks we ought to be any part of it. imo gordon broon is a c*nt of the first order, and a scottish c*nt at that, but at least he has displayed a credible disdain for the euro project

[dune]

With Bigotgate hogging all the news i've only just noticed that Spain has had it's credit rating downgraded today and it's now looking as if the trouble in the Eurozone will spread to Ireland and Italy.

[View From The Top]

With Bigotgate hogging all the news i've only just noticed that Spain has had it's credit rating downgraded today and it's now looking as if the trouble in the Eurozone will spread to Ireland and Italy.

 

And lots of speculators will be getting very, very rich off it.