2nd Debate Thread

[dune]

Same old Dune. There's more than one person voting in this election, you know!

 

I understand this, but you must concede that the public now underatnd there is a choice between two parties - Tory or Lib-Lab.

[Ludwig]

Unemployment is at a high mate, I have a good idea let’s give them the training and put them in work.

 

Actually sod it we can bring in immigrants to do it vote lib dem.

 

This is a ridiculous argument, there is work out there, how else do the immigrants manage to find it? The Lib Dems also propose free training schemes for anyone aged 16-24 out of work/full-time education for 6+ months, supplementing this with skilled immigrant workers coming to the most-needed areas.

[dune]

This is a ridiculous argument, there is work out there, how else do the immigrants manage to find it? The Lib Dems also propose free training schemes for anyone aged 16-24 out of work/full-time education for 6+ months, supplementing this with skilled immigrant workers coming to the most-needed areas.

 

We all know there's work out there, the issue is getting the idle British people to do it. Labour have simply paid them generous benefits to sit on the arse, the Conservatives have pledged to reduce the benefits of those who refuse work. Get the idle British off their arses and we don't need immigrants to fill jobs.

[Joensuu]

Radio 4 declare 'Clegg tactical win'

 

Reporting a ComRes snap poll result:

 

Conservatives: 35% (down 1 from last week's figures for viewers who saw the first debate)

Lib Dems: 36% (up 1)

Labour: 24%

 

ComRes also asked who gave the most honest answers:

 

Clegg: 43%

Cameron: 29%

Brown: 23%

 

And ComRes also asked who exceeded expectations. Brown won on that count.

Brown: 47%

Cameron: 27%

Clegg: 21%

Edited 22 April, 2010 by Joensuu

[Ludwig]

We all know there's work out there, the issue is getting the idle British people to do it. Labour have simply paid them generous benefits to sit on the arse, the Conservatives have pledged to reduce the benefits of those who refuse work. Get the idle British off their arses and we don't need immigrants to fill jobs.

 

I agree, but don't think it's realistic to expect the necessary levels of motivation and efficiency from the 'idle British', that skilled immigrants ought to supplement the workforce where it is needed. Controlling this would be difficult, but it is far more economically viable than attempting to reduce immigration massively immediately.

[revolution saint]

I've only read the last few posts on this thread but I saw the debate. No one really stood out that much which is what Cameron more than any other needed to do. Compared to the first debate I thought it a bit boring and I'd imagine the non politic geeks will feel the same.

 

Haven't really looked through all of this thread but I get the feeling it's a lot of right wingers banging on about immigration, am I right?

[Johnny Bognor]

LOL at Millibad.

 

Within seconds of the debate he is trying to spin why Clown is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Yet, only a few weeks ago, when his own party was trying to get rid of him (Clown that is), Millibad took 12 hours to come out and say basically nothing.

[dune]

I've only read the last few posts on this thread but I saw the debate. No one really stood out that much which is what Cameron more than any other needed to do. Compared to the first debate I thought it a bit boring and I'd imagine the non politic geeks will feel the same.

 

Haven't really looked through all of this thread but I get the feeling it's a lot of right wingers banging on about immigration, am I right?

 

It was only boring if you're a Liberal or a labour supporter because the Conservatives won hands down on their policies.

[Joensuu]

It was only boring if you're a Liberal or a labour supporter because the Conservatives won hands down on their policies.

 

They certainly did, but only if you are naturally conservative. Personally Clegg's policies make the most sense, but each to ones own I guess.

 

As for the 'result', the overall feel is mixed, basically that today hasn't really changed anything. The instant reaction polls are also mixed (YouGov suggest Cameron; ComRes and Angus Reid both point towards Clegg edging it). Looks like the press are going to call it a score draw. Brown looked like he was a awake (which to be fair is an improvement on last week), Cameron sounded far more composed, and Clegg avoided being knocked out by a killer blow. All in all after two heats Clegg will be happiest.

 

 

(Meanwhile, I pocketed a whole £3.80, after YouGov declared for Cameron)

[trousers]

[Thedelldays]

Listening to the radio stations. They are pretty much all reporting that the Tories came out the best. As does many of the papers

 

A strong last debate could be enough for them

[AndyNorthernSaints]

We all know there's work out there, the issue is getting the idle British people to do it. Labour have simply paid them generous benefits to sit on the arse, the Conservatives have pledged to reduce the benefits of those who refuse work. Get the idle British off their arses and we don't need immigrants to fill jobs.

 

What about the NHS Stanley? I'm interested to know how you would run it without trained Doctors/Nurses etc?

[Hatch]

Bit disappointed to be honest,

 

I tuned in expecting it to be a bit like the Krypton Factor.

[Mao Cap]

LOL at Millibad.

 

Within seconds of the debate he is trying to spin why Clown is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Yet, only a few weeks ago, when his own party was trying to get rid of him (Clown that is), Millibad took 12 hours to come out and say basically nothing.

 

Johnny, as Clegg now appears to be the big rival you'll need to come up with a rhyming nickname for him, something of the calibre of "Fraudon Clown".

 

Any ideas? I'd suggest "Pick Smegg" myself

[pedg]

Basically a score draw but in part due to a homer of a referee (Wonder if Rupert ask him to, against the agreed rules, bring up the newspaper headlines?)

 

From the guardian blog

 

11.20pm: For the record, we've now had five instant polls. Here are the results. Populus have revised their figures. (The ones I quoted earlier were provisional). They are now putting Cameron ahead. Here are all five sets of results

 

 

Times/Populus - Cameron won

Cameron: 37%

Clegg: 36%

Brown: 27%

 

 

Guardian/ICM - Clegg won

Clegg: 33%

Cameron: 29%

Brown: 29%

 

 

ITV/ComRes - Clegg won

Clegg: 33%

Brown: 30%

Cameron: 30%

 

 

Angus Reid - Clegg won

Clegg: 35%

Cameron: 33%

Brown: 23%

 

 

YouGov - Cameron won

Cameron: 36%

Clegg: 32%

Brown: 29%

 

 

And here's an average of all five polls

Clegg: 33.8%

Cameron: 33%

Brown: 27.6%

 

 

Angus Reid has now issued revised figures. They still show Clegg ahead, but not by as much as the early figures did.

Clegg: 33%

Cameron: 32%

Brown: 23%

 

 

I've recalculated the average of all five polls using these updated figures. Clegg is still ahead, but only by a fraction.

Clegg: 33.4%

Cameron: 32.8%

Brown: 27.6%

[pedg]

The Daily Mail had a poll asking who won the debate.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/polls/poll.html?pollId=1017189

 

 

When they didn't like the results, they started a new one:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/polls/poll.html?pollId=1017190

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Alastair Campell in "I don't care about your SKY poll frankly" shocker. So that's what he thinks about public opinion is it? No surprise there.

 

Who owns Sky and who is backing the Tories?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I thought they all did pretty well. Pretty well for Brown is third but managing to keep his temper and not make a complete chump of himself.

 

Lib/Dems policies dont add up when put under the microscope, but this particular forum is not set up in such a way to expose them completely.The Lib/Dems got rid of Campbell to get someone in who is better media wise, had it been Campbell saying exactly the same things as Clegg, amensty for illigals, regional immigration, not replacing Trident, or using necular power stations, then he'd have been crushed. The Lib/Dems policies only seem reasonable because they are explained by a man who comes across as reasonable. You only have to look at their grassroot activists, they're a bunch of sandal wearing dreamers who are away with the fairies.

[Joensuu]

I thought they all did pretty well. Pretty well for Brown is third but managing to keep his temper and not make a complete chump of himself.

 

Lib/Dems policies dont add up when put under the microscope, but this particular forum is not set up in such a way to expose them completely.The Lib/Dems got rid of Campbell to get someone in who is better media wise, had it been Campbell saying exactly the same things as Clegg, amensty for illigals, regional immigration, not replacing Trident, or using necular power stations, then he'd have been crushed. The Lib/Dems policies only seem reasonable because they are explained by a man who comes across as reasonable. You only have to look at their grassroot activists, they're a bunch of sandal wearing dreamers who are away with the fairies.

 

Is it acceptable for me to wear sandals to St Mary's tomorrow?

[trousers]

[trousers]

Who owns Sky and who is backing the Tories?

 

The same person that backed Labour last time.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

The same person that backed Labour last time.

 

But we didn't have live debates last time on sky with there own opinion polls.

[trousers]

 

But we didn't have live debates last time on sky with there own opinion polls.

Ah, ok. That nullifies any signs of popularity towards the Tories this time around then. Thanks for the clarification.

[View From The Top]

Ah, ok. That nullifies any signs of popularity towards the Tories this time around then. Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

The poll of polls somewhat nullifies the idea of a Cameron win.

 

Just to clarify it you understand.

 

Clegg: 33.4%

Cameron: 32.8%

Brown: 27.6%

[trousers]

 

 

The poll of polls somewhat nullifies the idea of a Cameron win.

 

Just to clarify it you understand.

 

Clegg: 33.4%

Cameron: 32.8%

Brown: 27.6%

 

Thanks

[revolution saint]

It was only boring if you're a Liberal or a labour supporter because the Conservatives won hands down on their policies.

 

Conservatives celebrate the fact that they didn't **** up again? Thing is the Tories didn't do very well but they did OK. I doubt they won many swing voters but probably didn't lose many either. If that's success for the Tories then their supporters need a bit of expectation management.

 

I can see a hung parliament and the price for that will be PR. I've got to hand it to Clegg - he's capitalised on the debates and could hold the key to making sure that every vote ( in subsequent elections) does actually count. Quite exciting really.

[trousers]

 

Conservatives celebrate the fact that they didn't **** up again? Thing is the Tories didn't do very well but they did OK. I doubt they won many swing voters but probably didn't lose many either. If that's success for the Tories then their supporters need a bit of expectation management.

 

I can see a hung parliament and the price for that will be PR. I've got to hand it to Clegg - he's capitalised on the debates and could hold the key to making sure that every vote ( in subsequent elections) does actually count. Quite exciting really.

Agree. Every vote would count in a true PR system. Even those votes for the lunatic fringes.

 

As you say..."exciting"...

[LGTL]

The funniest thing about the whole election is that it doesn't look like Dave is going to get a majority. What a complete clown, the most hated government ever and the Tories are sill struggling. That just about sums him, and them, up.