Administration timing

[Rory]

Things happen for a reason. I wouldn't want to change anything that's happened to us in the last year. Everything has been great so far.

[Dalek2003]

Good news Dalek, Glenn is back in Southampton........bought a house, joined the local golf club.........

 

If true, this could only confirm a place at Saints for next season. Good news indeed !

[Teddy Nutkins]

If true, this could only confirm a place at Saints for next season. Good news indeed !

 

 

One thing i can say about you is that you are very loyal........;-)

[ottery st mary]

My info is that Hoddle will be assistant to Phil of Dubai and Curbishley will assist nickh of Salisbury in running the two forum sides....

 

The real football side will be left to Pards..

[Victor]

I suspect it was Barclays but there are many on here happy to blame Lowe for anything from AIDs to World War 2.

 

He may have shaved that silly moustache off but he didn't fool me. And if AID stands for Administration Instigated Deficit, yes, that too.

[saint_stevo]

If true, this could only confirm a place at Saints for next season. Good news indeed !

 

It is very true. He has put on a few pounds as well

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

The impression I got was that Lowe thought he could outsmart the F.A and avoid the 10 point deduction as the debt/adminstration belonged to Southampton Leisure Holdings.

In my opinion it was this arrogance not Barclays that resulted in us copping -10 this season.

[ottery st mary]

To be fair to Rupes..

 

There is a letter of apology being sent out to all Saints fans that he had such a great rapport with..

 

Apparently he purchased a book of four second class stamps.

[trousers]

My information comes from 3 sources, one who was trying to assist in finding finance abroad, one who was a creditor and constantly in touch with the board and one who was actually sat with Lowe, an ex board member, on the day Admin was declared.

As for Barclays, I believe the decision was made the week before following a visit from someone with clout but not part of the board. Lowe was unaware until the cheque bounced.

 

Same person (highlighted in bold)?

[Weston Saint]

Same person (highlighted in bold)?

No.

[Dark Munster]

And what can we change about that by talking about it on ere.....again?

 

Just think, without -10 this year there would have been no sticking point for Pinnacle and Tony TyreKicker when they were trying to buy us and Fialka would be our Chairman!

I don't think so. I think they just used that as an excuse to back out. The sticking point was that they didn't have a pot to piss in.

 

Surely the point is that had Lowe put us into Administration 1 week earlier, we would still have Markus and Nicola but not the points deduction this season and would therefore be on course for automatic promotion.

 

The point deduction this season and ML are not mutually exclusive.

 

We all have our views on his motives and many of us believe he only returned to protect his equity and had very little regard for the club and certainly none for its fans. For me it was a combination of ego, greed and desperation.

 

Happy with where we are now but it could have been even better without the -10 this season.

:smt041 Thank you. That's what I've been trying to get some to understand.

[up and away]

My information comes from 3 sources, one who was trying to assist in finding finance abroad, one who was a creditor and constantly in touch with the board and one who was actually sat with Lowe, an ex board member, on the day Admin was declared.

 

As for Mark Dennis, what would he know. He hated Lowe and worshiped Crouch. All his information came from Crouch.

 

As for Barclays, I believe the decision was made the week before following a visit from someone with clout but not part of the board. Lowe was unaware until the cheque bounced.

 

My own view is that Lowe, who had a very poor hand, tried to play poker with Barclays knowing they had a fair bit to lose (overdraft money) and they called his bluff. With the benefit of hindsight thank God they did.

 

I can add some bits and pieces to that, from my account manager who was at Barclays at the time.

 

Many people do not realise that we were in voluntary administration the day Lowe came back. Crouch had ****ed everything against the wall and was like a rabbit in the head lights. He knew what needed to be done, he knew it had to be done, but could not bring himself to do anything and just hoped Fulthorpe would be the saviour. He just could not look reality in the face.

 

The bit about the poker is not far wrong, but as Lowe saw it, unless he got decent money for any of the players we sold, it would not make the problem go away, just delay the obvious.

 

The position at Barclays was strange, they had gone through big lay offs and were restructuring, involving those that dealt with Saints. They wanted out from Saints but did not want to be seen as pulling the plug, involving going back on a position they tolerated previously. When they bounced the gk coachs cheque, Lowe informed them of having to put the club into administration. They suggested to meet with the administrator and work something out? Being pointed that had already been happening since the beginning of the season and events eventually took their natural course.

 

What really killed the club was the fractious atmosphere within the board between the non and exec directors. Wilde was neutered and left a big hole which Crouch tried to fill without the mandate. If anyone had just said at that point, let's try and do the best for the club irrespective of our beliefs. But when you are just face to face to each other screaming, very little is going to be accomplished. All those that thought McMenemy and Corbett were actual helping, just ended up with the execs steering as close to the financial borderline as possible, waiting for the ship to hit the rocks.

[trousers]

Many people do not realise that we were in voluntary administration the day Lowe came back

 

What does being in "voluntary administration" actually entail?

 

As far as I'm aware, there was no announcement to this effect to the Stock Exchange nor was an administrator engaged at that juncture (?)

 

Which suggests that 'voluntary administration' is merely a subtle shift in the way the incumbant board go about their operations rather than something tangible?

[ottery st mary]

Lowe supporters can continue trying to blame others but I for one hope Rupes returns to politics where he is best suited...BNP or UKIP or was it with the dear old MRLP RIP dear old Lord Sutch...Rupes is on his way ....

 

up and away why do you attempt to change history...Maybe you would be better in politics...

 

Rupes had so many warnings and yet you still blame Crouchie...Maybe that was the problem....Rupes and his little band of supporters just would not listen..

 

up and away, Rupert and his merry boyzz...You really got to let go.....or I will speak to your accounts manager and we will get nearer the truth...

[Frank's cousin]

Lowe supporters can continue trying to blame others but I for one hope Rupes returns to politics where he is best suited...BNP or UKIP or was it with the dear old MRLP RIP dear old Lord Sutch...Rupes is on his way ....

 

up and away why do you attempt to change history...Maybe you would be better in politics...

 

Rupes had so many warnings and yet you still blame Crouchie...Maybe that was the problem....Rupes and his little band of supporters just would not listen..

 

up and away, Rupert and his merry boyzz...You really got to let go.....or I will speak to your accounts manager and we will get nearer the truth...

 

Truth? Now thats a big hope... and why is your 'truth' any more valid than Up and Aways? Because you do not agree with it?

 

I have absolutely no idea what the 'Truth' is... All I can see is what appears to extreme bias from many directions with a few posters valiently trying to illustrate a more balanced perspective that has its logic based on possibilty ratrher than clouded by hatred or blinkered by 'a love in'

 

There are very FEW FACTS in the public domain - the vast majority of what is read on here is still just speculation based on 3rd and 4th hand rumour with each side simply selecting the bits that support their own theories.

 

It helps no one, to rake over old ground, and as we see just brings up old bitterness... I wasted way too much time on here for those years, and its simply noit worth it. Foldk will believe what they chose to believe based on their own rational/irrational opinion of the LOwe, and disregard anything that contradicts their opinion. That was always the problem - Fans became so polarised and set in their opinion based on their perception of Lowe's mistakes/'achievements', that it prevented any balanced discussion on what happened later.

 

I think Duncan, probably gets it about right (IMHO) - someone whose opinion I have always respected, even if not always agreed with. He has had more fallings out with Lowe and has actually spoken to him so I would guess knows more about him than most. Lowe was not evil, but most likely too egotistical to accept advice in areas that most impact on fans - commercially the club now is being run as Lowe wanted to run it - within its means - no big risks, no ramping up the debt - where are those fans now who screamed for 'investment when we were in the prem, who to this day have never provided a satisfactopry explanation of its funding without increasing debt? - as they say, if it was that easy to generate investment, clubs would not be in debt and Pompey would not be in their shi te... The difference now is we are simply happy to have a club owned and managed by NEW folk that were neutral and seem determined to see us succeed without unnecessary financial risk... something that we as a fanbase seem more at ease with or satisfied with now than under Lowe's tenure.

 

What you believe about the admin timing will depend on your leel of hatred for Lowe - and nothing anyone seems to say witll change that for those on either side of that divide... my twopenneth worth is more a question of logic... because if Lowe was as egotistical as I do acknowledge he was... the BEST way to stick two fingers up at the 'lunatic fringe' was not through failure but through demonstrating his approach was right all along. Given the closeness to seasons end at the time, I believe Lowe thought that we would survive until the end of the season, be able to ship a few out on relegation (as we did) and pay back the majority of the OD. Start in L1 on zero and build with his 'wunderkinds' and dutch masters....

 

Footballing naiviety for sure, but commercially not unreasonable - Barclays may well have pulled the plug as they would have been unure of our level of future income from gates etc, given that crowds were going down.

 

Who knows, but the truth is known to a few only, and maybe we should remember that?

[up and away]

What does being in "voluntary administration" actually entail?

 

As far as I'm aware, there was no announcement to this effect to the Stock Exchange nor was an administrator engaged at that juncture (?)

 

Which suggests that 'voluntary administration' is merely a subtle shift in the way the incumbant board go about their operations rather than something tangible?

Sorry, voluntary being a legal definition. What I should have said is Barclays imposed their own administration by appointing accountants (who we paid for) to monitor and govern our financials.

[Weston Saint]

I can add some bits and pieces to that, from my account manager who was at Barclays at the time.

 

Many people do not realise that we were in voluntary administration the day Lowe came back. Crouch had ****ed everything against the wall and was like a rabbit in the head lights. He knew what needed to be done, he knew it had to be done, but could not bring himself to do anything and just hoped Fulthorpe would be the saviour. He just could not look reality in the face.

 

The bit about the poker is not far wrong, but as Lowe saw it, unless he got decent money for any of the players we sold, it would not make the problem go away, just delay the obvious.

 

The position at Barclays was strange, they had gone through big lay offs and were restructuring, involving those that dealt with Saints. They wanted out from Saints but did not want to be seen as pulling the plug, involving going back on a position they tolerated previously. When they bounced the gk coachs cheque, Lowe informed them of having to put the club into administration. They suggested to meet with the administrator and work something out? Being pointed that had already been happening since the beginning of the season and events eventually took their natural course.

 

What really killed the club was the fractious atmosphere within the board between the non and exec directors. Wilde was neutered and left a big hole which Crouch tried to fill without the mandate. If anyone had just said at that point, let's try and do the best for the club irrespective of our beliefs. But when you are just face to face to each other screaming, very little is going to be accomplished. All those that thought McMenemy and Corbett were actual helping, just ended up with the execs steering as close to the financial borderline as possible, waiting for the ship to hit the rocks.

 

Thanks, that makes sense and puts a few more pieces of the jigsaw together.

[trousers]

 

Sorry, voluntary being a legal definition. What I should have said is Barclays imposed their own administration by appointing accountants (who we paid for) to monitor and govern our financials.

Cheers

[saintjay77]

What really killed the club was the fractious atmosphere within the board between the non and exec directors. Wilde was neutered and left a big hole which Crouch tried to fill without the mandate. If anyone had just said at that point, let's try and do the best for the club irrespective of our beliefs. But when you are just face to face to each other screaming, very little is going to be accomplished. All those that thought McMenemy and Corbett were actual helping, just ended up with the execs steering as close to the financial borderline as possible, waiting for the ship to hit the rocks.

 

I think plenty of people at the time were saying the 3 could probably do better if they could work together but I suppose Lowe is so dislikable its hard for anyone to try and reason with him. I guess anyone who is in half a position to go against him would easily and quickly be drawn into an argument and move further and further away from any agreement.

 

Would have been nice if the 3 got together with a plan to sell the club and went out to find ML and NC. Had that have happened they might have even been thanked for there efforts as they at least would have looked like they had the clubs best interest at heart.

 

Discussions like these just make me even more gratfull that ML came along and saved our club.

[ST Randy]

I think plenty of people at the time were saying the 3 could probably do better if they could work together but I suppose Lowe is so dislikable its hard for anyone to try and reason with him. I guess anyone who is in half a position to go against him would easily and quickly be drawn into an argument and move further and further away from any agreement.

 

Would have been nice if the 3 got together with a plan to sell the club and went out to find ML and NC. Had that have happened they might have even been thanked for there efforts as they at least would have looked like they had the clubs best interest at heart.

 

Discussions like these just make me even more gratfull that ML came along and saved our club.

 

 

Presumably their thanks would have been received in the form of money for their shares - probably a fair proportion of £15 million. Their inability to agree has cost them dearly as they received nothing for their shares.

 

Crouch was always recognised as a wealthy fan who got involved in his club. Making money from Saints was never his priority. Lowe and Wilde on the other hand were businessmen who become involved in Saints to make money. One had no affinity towards football when he arrived. The other was a self confessed Liverpool fan. Their financial loss is another example of their appalling business acumen.

 

Cro

[saintjay77]

Presumably their thanks would have been received in the form of money for their shares - probably a fair proportion of £15 million. Their inability to agree has cost them dearly as they received nothing for their shares.

 

Crouch was always recognised as a wealthy fan who got involved in his club. Making money from Saints was never his priority. Lowe and Wilde on the other hand were businessmen who become involved in Saints to make money. One had no affinity towards football when he arrived. The other was a self confessed Liverpool fan. Their financial loss is another example of their appalling business acumen.

 

Cro

 

I dont think you will find many clubs that have an owner ready to just throw money away and pretty much all of them would want to sell on at a profit rather than a loss. Even less actually make a football club run like a successful business and most run up a huge amount of debt. Lowe ran the club (into the ground) over 10 years and our debt was a 25 million mortage and a 6 million over draft which I think wasnt even there when he got the boot the 1st time. As a football club it was going no-where but thats not bad going with no external investment. Cant think of any other club that has done the same.

 

How many shares did Lowe actually have anyway? I thought most of his total share was proxied from others so if the shares had been sold he wouldnt of actually made that much out of them. Crouch and Wilde would have been the bigger winners there.

 

Crouch was playing billy big boss with something he only owned 10% of so throwing the clubs money around in last ditch attempts to get us on the up was fan pleasing but ultimatly not very helpful and just continued the slide to Admin.

 

If I owned 10% of your house and used your house to go buy myself a boat and car via loans and HP, everyone would think im doing great and if all goes pair shaped you lose your house and I walk away.

 

So while they all tried to do things better than each other I suppose they can all be thanked for trying despite there motives. We can also be thankful that they no longer have anything to do with our club!