Volcanic ash cloud

[trousers]

How do they get above the ash layer then?

 

 

The ash is still there. It's just that 'the experts' all of a sudden don't deem it dense enough to worry about. Nothing to do with the Government getting worried about the fallout of the knee jerk blanket ban ahead of a general election of course.

[Viking Warrior]

Its bad up here they have closed our airport and now we do not have ferries or airplanes so I will not be able to make this weekends game

[buctootim]

The ash is still there. It's just that 'the experts' all of a sudden don't deem it dense enough to worry about. Nothing to do with the Government getting worried about the fallout of the knee jerk blanket ban ahead of a general election of course.

 

Its the airlines who are resonsible for the blanket ban. For years they refused to agree a safe level of ash because they didnt want to risk getting sued. Its only now their losses are in excess of what they could have to pay out in court that they are suddenly demanding to be allowed to fly.

[bridge too far]

The ash is still there. It's just that 'the experts' all of a sudden don't deem it dense enough to worry about. Nothing to do with the Government getting worried about the fallout of the knee jerk blanket ban ahead of a general election of course.

 

Or the airline operators, seeing the amount of money they're losing, suddenly agreeing to the very regulation they refused before.

 

I'll post the link again FYI as you maybe missed it first time around:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/21/airlines-flights-ban-airspace

[Hatch]

Has there been any UFO reported sightings since the flight ban or are all the nasty spacemen afraid of the ash as well?

[trousers]

Or the airline operators, seeing the amount of money they're losing, suddenly agreeing to the very regulation they refused before.

 

I'll post the link again FYI as you maybe missed it first time around:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/21/airlines-flights-ban-airspace

 

It's OK, I'll wait for the Daily Mail version to come out....

[bridge too far]

It's OK, I'll wait for the Daily Mail version to come out....

 

You'll have a long wait then!

[dubai_phil]

It’s a bit early for Iceland volcano jokes. We should wait awhile for the dust to settle.

 

 

I see that America has declared war on Iceland. Apparently they are accusing them of harbouring a “weapon of ash eruption”.

 

It was the last wish of the Icelandic economy that its ashes be spread over Europe.

 

Iceland goes bankrupt, then it manages to set itself on fire. This has insurance scam written all over it.

 

Iceland, we wanted your cash, not your ash.

 

Waiter, there's volcanic ash in my soup. I know, it's a no-fly zone.

 

Richard Curtis is working on a new rom-com about people stuck in an airport who fall in love. The working title is "Lava Actually".

 

I came out my house yesterday and was hit on the head by a bag of frozen sausages, a chocolate gateau and some fish fingers. I realised it must be the fallout from Iceland.

 

Volcano in Iceland. What next Earthquake in Asda?

 

Woke this morning to find every surface in the house covered in a layer of dust and a foul stench of sulphur in the air. No change, I’ve been married to that bone-idle slob for 20 years.

[Whitey Grandad]

Thanks Phil, someone told me this morning I needed a laugh.

[St Landrew]

I've been sent a link to some very good photos of the eruption.

 

http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/eyafallajokull_20100416-en.html

[LVSaint]

I've been sent a link to some very good photos of the eruption.

 

http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/eyafallajokull_20100416-en.html

 

Love those slow exposure shots.

[derry]

It seems to me that the reason the UK is now open is that Willie Walsh called the regulators/politicians bluff and launched 26 longhaul flights to the UK on Tuesday. Faced with turning back these flights or opening the politicians reasoned that the Wednesday morning row would be a vote loser.

 

I have flown for years in close proximity to erupting volcanoes in the Mediterranean, Caribbean, Mexico and Asia and the only criteria was stay out of the ash plume. I found it bizarre that the whole airspace plus 23 other regions was closed on the simulations from the Met Office computer.

 

Up to now areas affected by erupting volcanoes were marked by a symbol on the sig weather charts and it was up to pilots to stay clear of the plume.

 

It appears to me this whole episode was a gross overreaction by the regulators/government departments. The airlines proved at the weekend there was no problems but nobody in authority would listen, but when the engine manufacturers stated that the current levels of contamination outside of the plume was 1% of the acceptable contamination it finished the ban.

 

It is my opinion that in clear air and outside of the ash plume that there was no problem. A much more sensible approach would be to map the plume and create a 30 mile buffer. Virtually all aircraft are GPS/INS/IRS equipped and even if not still under direct radar control so avoiding the plume was not a problem.

[trousers]

It seems to me that the reason the UK is now open is that Willie Walsh called the regulators/politicians bluff and launched 26 longhaul flights to the UK on Tuesday. Faced with turning back these flights or opening the politicians reasoned that the Wednesday morning row would be a vote loser.

 

I have flown for years in close proximity to erupting volcanoes in the Mediterranean, Caribbean, Mexico and Asia and the only criteria was stay out of the ash plume. I found it bizarre that the whole airspace plus 23 other regions was closed on the simulations from the Met Office computer.

 

Up to now areas affected by erupting volcanoes were marked by a symbol on the sig weather charts and it was up to pilots to stay clear of the plume.

 

It appears to me this whole episode was a gross overreaction by the regulators/government departments. The airlines proved at the weekend there was no problems but nobody in authority would listen, but when the engine manufacturers stated that the current levels of contamination outside of the plume was 1% of the acceptable contamination it finished the ban.

 

It is my opinion that in clear air and outside of the ash plume that there was no problem. A much more sensible approach would be to map the plume and create a 30 mile buffer. Virtually all aircraft are GPS/INS/IRS equipped and even if not still under direct radar control so avoiding the plume was not a problem.

 

Completely agree with this. We've simply gone too risk averse in this country (and others).

 

I know it's the Daily Mail and therefore by default utter tosh (obviously ) but this article just about sums it up for me:

 

"Pandemic of panic: The great volcanic shutdown was the price we pay for a society that overreacts to any risk"

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-1267904/Iceland-volcano-eruption-The-price-pay-society-overreacts-risk.html

 

"No minister - Tory, Labour or lib Dem - readily defies those who invoke the sacred principle of making us safer. We have become an almost insanely risk-averse society, demanding to be babied from cradle to grave.

 

The great volcanic ash air shutdown is part of the price we pay for this. Until, as a society, we learn to measure risk realistically, we shall continue to face draconian responses to even marginal threats. "

[buctootim]

 

The great volcanic ash air shutdown is part of the price we pay for this. Until, as a society, we learn to measure risk realistically, we shall continue to face draconian responses to even marginal threats. "

 

Agree. Personally I think security at airports is the biggest example of this. I was security checked and frisked three times at Heathrow the other week (British white male in his 40s). 100 of millions of people are inconvenienced at a cost of billions each year in a (probably vain) attempt to head off plane bombings.

[dubai_phil]

Interesting.

 

My mate was stranded here with BA. He was rebooked for 28th April. He got a call today to say they had managed to re-route him out of Abu Dhabi to Heathrow tonight, so the backlog may clear quicker than expected.

 

Also Emirates have been running extra flights to the UK over night to clear their numbers down.

[derry]

I think the really interesting bit is just about to kick off. The people at the bottom, NATS/CAA are going to be fingered as the enquiry bandwagon gains momentum and in turn the leaks about which government minister got involved will come out.

[dune]

An excellent article in todays Express about what happened in 1816.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/170667/Volcano-Could-this-be-another-year-without-a-summer-

[mdearlove]

Got back yesterday from Egypt - 6 days. Thomson Holidays were fantastic and we haven't spent a penny over the extra 6 days. They covered the cost of everything. We then got back to pick up the car and Airparks at Gatwick did the same so no cost there either.

 

I think we were very lucky when you hear some of the stories from others.

[St Landrew]

An excellent article in todays Express about what happened in 1816.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/170667/Volcano-Could-this-be-another-year-without-a-summer-

 

If you liked that, the Beeb ran the 10 Things You Didn't Know About Volcanoes programme the other day. Bit of fun, although I was p!ssed off the Scottish One didn't mention Mt Ruapehu in NZ.

[dubai_phil]

I think the really interesting bit is just about to kick off. The people at the bottom, NATS/CAA are going to be fingered as the enquiry bandwagon gains momentum and in turn the leaks about which government minister got involved will come out.

 

Oh yes, one little Jobsworth at the bottom of the chain will get dumped on, but then the bills will start coming in, there will be inquiries and law suits. and more ministerial fudges.

 

Guess who will end up being hit for the bill? Yup, the taxpayer. Taxpayer paid the Jobsworth, Jobsworth caused the financial meltdown.

 

Good time to be a Lawyer handling class actions

[Whitey Grandad]

Oh yes, one little Jobsworth at the bottom of the chain will get dumped on, but then the bills will start coming in, there will be inquiries and law suits. and more ministerial fudges.

 

Guess who will end up being hit for the bill? Yup, the taxpayer. Taxpayer paid the Jobsworth, Jobsworth caused the financial meltdown.

 

Good time to be a Lawyer handling class actions

Isn't that what the Airline PAssenger Tax is for?

[Hatch]

Whats happened now, why no more news on this..

 

It surely just hasn't disappeared??

[Ponty]

The wind changed.

[Arizona]

Agree. Personally I think security at airports is the biggest example of this. I was security checked and frisked three times at Heathrow the other week (British white male in his 40s). 100 of millions of people are inconvenienced at a cost of billions each year in a (probably vain) attempt to head off plane bombings.

 

Personally I'd take having my bag x-rayed and a 10 second pat down from a security guard if it means people can't just walk on with anything.

 

I am sure it is possible to get a weapon on board an aircraft, with the right knowledge, determination, financial backing, equipment, training etc. But do you really want to get on a plane knowing any idiot can just walk onto a flight carring 6 gallons of petrol and do whatever he wants?

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm still waiting for a shipment of printed-circuit boards from China. They were put on the aircraft on Monday 12th and they haven't been seen since. The latest rumour is that they were off-loaded in Delhi but nobody can find any trace of them. It's part of a shipment of 350Kg so it can't be easy to overlook it. There 12 other companies who are in the same position and can't meet their production needs so someone might get laid off.

 

It's British Airways Cargo, but you probably guessed that anyway.

[St Landrew]

I'm still waiting for a shipment of printed-circuit boards from China. They were put on the aircraft on Monday 12th and they haven't been seen since. The latest rumour is that they were off-loaded in Delhi but nobody can find any trace of them. It's part of a shipment of 350Kg so it can't be easy to overlook it. There 12 other companies who are in the same position and can't meet their production needs so someone might get laid off.

 

It's British Airways Cargo, but you probably guessed that anyway.

 

Blimey. I reckon a ship going the same route would have got this side of the Suez Canal by now.

 

And they are not affected by volcanic ash clouds.

[Whitey Grandad]

Blimey. I reckon a ship going the same route would have got this side of the Suez Canal by now.

 

And they are not affected by volcanic ash clouds.

The way things are going a lot more of it will go by sea but the delivery times will have to go out another 4 to 6 weeks and I expect that all the customers will go elsewhere. The freight companies will all be increasing their rates from now on and the end-user will have to pay. There is a half-way system where the goods are flown to the Middle-East and then shipped from there which brings the time down to 2 or 3 weeks.

 

People often forget the hidden costs of living on an island. Everything we buy or sell has to be put on a plane or a boat, you can't just chuck it on a lorry and have it arrive in a couple of days. That's one of the reasons that Germany is so dominant in trade.

[Thedelldays]

The way things are going a lot more of it will go by sea but the delivery times will have to go out another 4 to 6 weeks and I expect that all the customers will go elsewhere. The freight companies will all be increasing their rates from now on and the end-user will have to pay. There is a half-way system where the goods are flown to the Middle-East and then shipped from there which brings the time down to 2 or 3 weeks.

 

People often forget the hidden costs of living on an island. Everything we buy or sell has to be put on a plane or a boat, you can't just chuck it on a lorry and have it arrive in a couple of days. That's one of the reasons that Germany is so dominant in trade.

 

 

yep...something like 95% of the UKs trade is done via the sea...absolutely crucial to our every day lives...yet, the RN is the smallest of the services...