UKIP

[solentstars]

If you're going to make broad sweeping statements like this, presumably without qualifications in Economics, perhaps you ought to explain in detail the basis of your thinking. I look forward to you giving me chapter and verse on it and why we would not somehow be able to continue trading with the EU on an equal basis and also be free to develop other trading partners around the World.

 

And of course, there would be some benefits to gain from leaving, like not having to pay vast sums to the EU for the overwheening and inneficient bureacracy and the subsidies that much of our contribution goes to fund in other countries, subsidies which often give them a competitive advantage over our home grown industries.

 

Also, we could restore sovereignty to our referendum so that our own laws passed by our own elected MPs take precedent over those imposed on us by Europe.

 

As you see, trade is only one aspect of the whole thing and most will remain to be convinced that we could not explore other avenues or continue trade with Europe, but on our own terms.

 

it will never happen,the time for leaving was in the 1970,s when the extreme left of labour party wanted us to leave and then the nutty right of the tory party under thatcher in the 80,s.

it never happened then and its only ukip and the bnp pushing that agenda now.

[Whitey Grandad]

If you're going to make broad sweeping statements like this, presumably without qualifications in Economics, perhaps you ought to explain in detail the basis of your thinking. I look forward to you giving me chapter and verse on it and why we would not somehow be able to continue trading with the EU on an equal basis and also be free to develop other trading partners around the World.

 

And of course, there would be some benefits to gain from leaving, like not having to pay vast sums to the EU for the overwheening and inneficient bureacracy and the subsidies that much of our contribution goes to fund in other countries, subsidies which often give them a competitive advantage over our home grown industries.

 

Also, we could restore sovereignty to our own Parliament so that our own laws passed by our own elected MPs take precedent over those imposed on us by Europe.

 

As you see, trade is only one aspect of the whole thing and most will remain to be convinced that we could not explore other avenues or continue trade with Europe, but on our own terms.

It is a lot more complicated dealing with countries outside the EU. At the moment all I have to do is chuck stuff in the car or in a van and drive it there, it's as easy as selling to someone in Manchester. Every time that I have to deal with countries outside I have to spend hours sorting out the customs paperwork and there are delays. I had £90k of shipment held up in Saudi Arabia for nearly 4 weeks waiting for customs. I don't want to go bak to the bad old days, thank you very much.

[solentstars]

It is a lot more complicated dealing with countries outside the EU. At the moment all I have to do is chuck stuff in the car or in a van and drive it there, it's as easy as selling to someone in Manchester. Every time that I have to deal with countries outside I have to spend hours sorting out the customs paperwork and there are delays. I had £90k of shipment held up in Saudi Arabia for nearly 4 weeks waiting for customs. I don't want to go bak to the bad old days, thank you very much.

 

good post about the reality of why we never leave the eu ,apart from the dreamers who think we have the commonwealth to fall back on with no trade barriers in place.

[Thedelldays]

good post about the reality of why we never leave the eu ,apart from the dreamers who think we have the commonwealth to fall back on with no trade barriers in place.

wow....it all boils down to being able to throw some stuff in a van and go for a drive..

 

im sure that is at the very bottom of the reasons why we are in (and why we shouldnt be)

[solentstars]

wow....it all boils down to being able to throw some stuff in a van and go for a drive..

 

im sure that is at the very bottom of the reasons why we are in (and why we shouldnt be)

 

no its boils down to business and not pie in the sky ideas that everything will be rosy once we left the eu.

[Thedelldays]

no its boils down to business and not pie in the sky ideas that everything will be rosy once we left the eu.

I dont think anyone says it will be rosy

 

the whole EU thing is great with many..but when it becomes 1 currency, 1 flag, 1 anthem, no elected president etc etc

 

people get a bit wary

 

all are which, completely different from trade agreements etc

[Wes Tender]

good post about the reality of why we never leave the eu ,apart from the dreamers who think we have the commonwealth to fall back on with no trade barriers in place.

 

So I asked you to come out with chapter and verse as to why we wouldn't be able to continue trading with Europe on a reciprocal basis if we left the EU and why we couldn't also return to trade with the Commonwealth and other parts of the World and your response is only to repeat your mantra that it will never happen. And then you clutch at the straw offered to you by Whitey Grandad as a reason.

 

Couldn't you think of any cogent reasons of your own?

 

You could start by saying why you think that all of the European car makers would wish to cease trading with us, the Italian refrigeration and washing machine industry, the French with their apples, cheese, etc, the Dutch with their caps and the Belgians with their Brussel Sprouts.

[Whitey Grandad]

Of course trade would continue but it is a hell of a lot more bother. Everybody would be happy to sell to us but when it comes to buying our products it's a different story. I hate trying to trade outside the EU, it's a pain in the bottom. The difference between shipping something to France or Germany and sending it to Switzerland is enough to make you give up. The thing is Wes, building a long-term relationship with overseas agents is difficult enough without customs getting in the way. Some people still think of trade as hauling bags of coffee and sugar up out of ships' holds where they can be traded in commodity markets and it doesn't matter if the price floats up and down because the end user will absorb all the differences, but what matters are price stability, security of supply, speed of delivery. We are stuck on an overcrowded island with all the associated transport costs and uncertainties and we have to persuade those on the mainland that it is better to buy from us rather than some low-cost eastern european company that's only a few hours lorry ride away. Nobody has to buy from us, we're just an afterthought these days.

[Wes Tender]

Of course trade would continue but it is a hell of a lot more bother. Everybody would be happy to sell to us but when it comes to buying our products it's a different story. I hate trying to trade outside the EU, it's a pain in the bottom. The difference between shipping something to France or Germany and sending it to Switzerland is enough to make you give up. The thing is Wes, building a long-term relationship with overseas agents is difficult enough without customs getting in the way. Some people still think of trade as hauling bags of coffee and sugar up out of ships' holds where they can be traded in commodity markets and it doesn't matter if the price floats up and down because the end user will absorb all the differences, but what matters are price stability, security of supply, speed of delivery. We are stuck on an overcrowded island with all the associated transport costs and uncertainties and we have to persuade those on the mainland that it is better to buy from us rather than some low-cost eastern european company that's only a few hours lorry ride away. Nobody has to buy from us, we're just an afterthought these days.

 

But there is no reason whatsoever that we would need to cease trading with the EU on much the same basis as we do now. As many others have said and I include myself in this, I am quite happy that we continue trading with the EU. But when we signed the Treaty of Rome, it was merely a trading agreement. Subsequent Treaties like Maastricht have brought us ever deeper into a Federation of States with the subsequent loss of sovereignty that nobody voted for originally. Each treaty should have been subject to a Referendum. But our MPs knew damned well that the British Public would have rejected them.

 

The British electorate has been cheated by their MPs in Parliament. Voting at a General Election is a fudge that allows them to get away with it time and time again, as some vote for a party because they always have, regardless of whether that party's line on Europe is not what they want. Others take the view that they are helpless because the vote is for a basket of policies and they go for the party who satisfies most of the ones that they support.

 

If there is a hung Parliament and the Lib/Dems force through changes in the voting system, the single transferable vote might bring about change, as in the European Elections, I'm pretty sure that after a vote for their chosen historic party, many would vote for UKIP as their second choice. It would make for an extremely interesting situation.