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Consevative Manifesto


SO16_Saint
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Sounds nuts.

 

They're giving power to us to run parts of the NHS and set up schools.

 

One reason being because 4/10 primary school children can't read or write. Surely letting parents who don't help their child with the basics set up schools is a bad idea.

 

This has made my decision as to who to vote for easy, and it's not these jokers

 

 

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Not as mad as letting a bunch of self interested politicians and local council beaurocrats run the show....

Which parents do you think will put themselves forward to run things ? It's bad enough with some of the Parent Governers currently in post under the current system; they are just as self-serving and egotistical as those in elected office in regional and national authorities. This may be 'local democracy in action', but it's also another step onto the gravy train, and opportunity for those who are arrogant enough to think they know how things have to be run to start building their personal power base.

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This idea about referendum's on everything is again something that sounds appealing but then you have to look at what that approach has done to California. One of the main reasons it is in dire financial straights is the cost of all the projects that have been voted in on their referendums. Not to mention all the negative attack advertising from special interest groups that usually appear to accompany any vote on anything mildly controversial.

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Not as mad as letting a bunch of self interested politicians and local council beaurocrats run the show....

 

Erm yeah - you forgot to mention that they are democratically accountable, so you can vote them out when they get it wrong. Precisely what is happening at this election.

 

How are you gonna vote a kids parent off the board when they own the school but are making a mess of it ? Presumably, in this case, your best option is to move the kid from the school - I guess the choice then is whether you move your kid to another 'privately' run school, or play safe and move your kid to a state school - where if it goes wrong you at least have the ability to apply pressure to the elected officials supervising its administration.

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This will be interesting, I can't wait to see this one go belly up! As one poster said above, a shocking amount of parents take no interest in their childs education; do people really think that schools will be better with them at the helm?!?

 

All this will lead to is division within the teaching profession, division at the school(s) itself, a drop in the quality of teaching and strike action.

Edited by Thorpe-le-Saint
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This will be interesting, I can't wait to see this one go belly up! As one poster said above, a shocking amount of parents take no interest in their childs education; do people really think that schools will be better with them at the helm?!?

 

The parents who take no interest in their childs education aren't likely to go to the trouble of starting a school, tbf.

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have they even released a manifesto yet? Or is this pure conjuncture

 

from the Beeb:

 

 

The Conservatives are preparing to launch their election manifesto, promising to give people more power and reduce the role of the state. Pledges include helping people to set up their own schools, sack MPs and veto high council tax increases.

They will also pledge to cut stamp duty for first-time house buyers and let people elect police commissioners.

Labour says it is a throwback to old Tory policies while the Lib Dems say the Tories want a "DIY society".

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In principle, I don't have a problem with local people have more influence about local services. In fact it happens already with school governors, local people being on NHS Trust Boards, my GP has a Patient Affairs group etc.

 

However, if the local control is absolute there are going to be appalling differences in standards from one area to another.

 

At the moment, it's possible to see how your local school is performing compared to others and the same is true of your local hospital.

 

It'll be even more of a post-code lottery IMO.

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Sounds nuts.

 

This has made my decision as to who to vote for easy, and it's not these jokers

 

This will be interesting, I can't wait to see this one go belly up!

All this will lead to is division within the teaching profession, division at the school(s) itself, a drop in the quality of teaching and strike action.

 

How are you gonna vote a kids parent off the board when they own the school but are making a mess of it ? Presumably, in this case, your best option is to move the kid from the school - I guess the choice then is whether you move your kid to another 'privately' run school, or play safe and move your kid to a state school - where if it goes wrong you at least have the ability to apply pressure to the elected officials supervising its administration.

 

It's a recipe for disaster.

What a load of PR spin/bullsh*t from Mr PR Cameron.

 

Which parents do you think will put themselves forward to run things ? It's bad enough with some of the Parent Governers currently in post under the current system; they are just as self-serving and egotistical as those in elected office in regional and national authorities. This may be 'local democracy in action', but it's also another step onto the gravy train, and opportunity for those who are arrogant enough to think they know how things have to be run to start building their personal power base.

 

 

 

 

LOL at all the lefties banging on about parents opening their own schools and this being a reason not to vote Tory.

 

I hate to break it to you all (because you don't like the truth), but it has already been done (under a Labour government BTW):

 

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/News/NewsArchive/2009/220909CouncilCelebratesOpeningofFirstParentPromotedSchool.htm

 

 

As some of you disagree with this policy so strongly, can I take it that you will now all withdraw your votes for Labour??????

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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LOL at all the lefties going on about parents opening their own schools and this being a reason not to vote Tory.

 

I hate to break it to you, but it has already been done (under a Labour government):

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/News/NewsArchive/2009/220909CouncilCelebratesOpeningofFirstParentPromotedSchool.htm

 

 

As some of you disagree so strongly, can I take it that you will now withdraw your votes for Labour??????

 

its no surprise to me has the fact new labour is just another tory party hence them bailing out the banks which got us in this mess.

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LOL at all the lefties going on about parents opening their own schools and this being a reason not to vote Tory.

 

I hate to break it to you, but it has already been done (under a Labour government):

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/News/NewsArchive/2009/220909CouncilCelebratesOpeningofFirstParentPromotedSchool.htm

 

 

As some of you disagree so strongly, can I take it that you will now withdraw your votes for Labour??????

 

JB, FYI I have not yet made up my mind who to vote for - but I have decided on a few that I WON'T be voting for, ( including the Tories ). As you have no doubt read & understood my posting, you will appreciate that the point I was making is that any such scheme will almost inevitably lead to the same old type of self-promoting, "I know what's best", arrogance taking the fore. It is a rant against anybody seeking to gain a little more personal power and influence, rather than demonstrating an altruistic desire to better society as a whole; a microcosm of exactly what is going wrong at the national level.

 

This manifesto pledge is aimed squarely and simply at lower middle-class swing voters, the type that Bremner Bird & Fortune lampoon in their dinner party sketches.

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http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/tories-publish-first-ever-hard%11back-edition-of-the-daily-mail-201004132634/

 

The Tory Manifesto includes a plan for directly-elected local police chiefs, raising the prospect of law enforcement being placed in the hands of Kerry Katona and whatever half-****ed, petty criminal happens to be blowing his muck up her at the time.

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http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/tories-publish-first-ever-hard%11back-edition-of-the-daily-mail-201004132634/

 

The Tory Manifesto includes a plan for directly-elected local police chiefs, raising the prospect of law enforcement being placed in the hands of Kerry Katona and whatever half-****ed, petty criminal happens to be blowing his muck up her at the time.

 

The whole article's very good :)

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LOL at all the lefties banging on about parents opening their own schools and this being a reason not to vote Tory.

 

I hate to break it to you all (because you don't like the truth), but it has already been done (under a Labour government BTW):

 

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/News/NewsArchive/2009/220909CouncilCelebratesOpeningofFirstParentPromotedSchool.htm

 

 

As some of you disagree with this policy so strongly, can I take it that you will now all withdraw your votes for Labour??????

 

Who are you calling a lefty! I disagree with parts of the Tory manifesto, so that makes me a lefty?

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Who are you calling a lefty! I disagree with parts of the Tory manifesto, so that makes me a lefty?

 

 

TBF Wade, you clearly don't like the Tories or their type, so if you are not centre-right (and certainly not exteme right), then by default you must be.... or have I missed something???

 

Happy to be corrected.

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JB, FYI I have not yet made up my mind who to vote for - but I have decided on a few that I WON'T be voting for, ( including the Tories ). As you have no doubt read & understood my posting,

 

Ouch! Still sore about getting done on the Dirty Labour thread?????

 

This manifesto pledge is aimed squarely and simply at lower middle-class swing voters, the type that Bremner Bird & Fortune lampoon in their dinner party sketches.

 

As it has already been done under Labour, I am surprised that they haven't screamed that the Tories are nicking their ideas. The Tories waste no time in pointing out when the shoe is on the other foot. Agree with you about dinner party sketches though.

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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TBF Wade, you clearly don't like the Tories or their type, so if you are not centre-right (and certainly not exteme right), then by default you must be.... or have I missed something???

 

Happy to be corrected.

 

I suppose I'm right-wing on some issues and centre-left on others.

 

I would say I'm on the right-wing of the Labour Party. I don't like the nannying, I don't agree with certain benefits being paid to people who won't work out of choice, I think our borders are policed very poorly, and we are letting in too many people at a time when our public services are creaking at the seams.

 

I won't go on, but I would say I'm a bit of a mix. It would be fair to say I am very suspicious of the Tories, and the labour laws they would repeal.

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LOL at all the lefties banging on about parents opening their own schools and this being a reason not to vote Tory.

 

I hate to break it to you all (because you don't like the truth), but it has already been done (under a Labour government BTW):

 

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/News/NewsArchive/2009/220909CouncilCelebratesOpeningofFirstParentPromotedSchool.htm

 

 

As some of you disagree with this policy so strongly, can I take it that you will now all withdraw your votes for Labour??????

 

Ha-ha - since when was the modern Labour Party left wing?

 

As for the policy - I don't object to parents opeing their own schools -providing standards are monitored in the same way as state schools, accountability is maintained and they don't suck money away from the state sector.

 

I suspect this policy is much more about the Tory ideological desire to shrink the state rather than actually raising standards. As for my kids - I don't want them taught in a school organised by an amateur (parent), I want them taught by professionals.

 

When I heard Camerons optimistic/idealistic' NAIVE we're all in it together' ****** yesterday, all I could think of was the similarly naive and ridiculous Poortvliet/Wotte experiment inflicted on us by Lowe. It just stinks of Toff-amateur-hour. In some ways its Victorian thinking - quite weird.

 

(I'll be voting Libdem by the way - how about yourself?)

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Ha-ha - since when was the modern Labour Party left wing?

 

As for the policy - I don't object to parents opeing their own schools -providing standards are monitored in the same way as state schools, accountability is maintained and they don't suck money away from the state sector.

 

But it happened with the assitance of the London Borough of Lambeth, that bastion of Far Right Extremism.

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But it happened with the assitance of the London Borough of Lambeth, that bastion of Far Right Extremism.

 

And ? Did you not read what I posted or did you just not understand it ?

 

Who are you voting for by the way - have you made your mind up yet ?

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The parents who take no interest in their childs education aren't likely to go to the trouble of starting a school, tbf.

 

This is true, but I agree with what badger said. what terrifies me about the proposal is the kind of parents who will go to the trouble. the smug self-centred parents that bully and elbow their way to getting what they want will suddenly be the ones in power. It has BIG MESS written through it like a stick of rock and will only increase the inequality in education.

 

The DIY school system has pretty much failed in Sweden, and whilst there are examples of American parent groups which have turned failed inner-city schools into genuine successes, these are the exception.

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And ? Did you not read what I posted or did you just not understand it ??

 

You wrote....

Ha-ha - since when was the modern Labour Party left wing?

 

To which I pointed out that the lefties of Lambeth (who are a bunch of lefty loonies) were quite happy to help out.

 

Who are you voting for by the way - have you made your mind up yet ?

 

As for who I would vote for, anyone with centre right views does not have a lot of choice....

 

Tory

UKIP (single issue, bunch of chancers)

BNP (socialists in wolves clothing)

 

 

Whereas those on the left have:

Labour

Lib Dems

Greens

Respect

The co-operative party

 

If I had to choose one from the right it would be tory and if I really had to choose one from the left it would be Respect..... purely for the comedy value of giving George Galloway more air time.... don't agree with his politics, but he is one politician that makes me laugh. If Doug Richards (of Dragon's Den) stood with his Entrepreneurs Manifesto, he would definately get my vote without question.

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This is true, but I agree with what badger said. what terrifies me about the proposal is the kind of parents who will go to the trouble. the smug self-centred parents that bully and elbow their way to getting what they want will suddenly be the ones in power. It has BIG MESS written through it like a stick of rock and will only increase the inequality in education.

 

The DIY school system has pretty much failed in Sweden, and whilst there are examples of American parent groups which have turned failed inner-city schools into genuine successes, these are the exception.

 

There was an interesting segment about this on the news last night. Many of these schools do worse than their equivalent state schools.

 

I know someone who is a school governor. He is the only parent I know who is allowed to take his son out of school during term-time to go skiing.

 

Influence, do you suppose?

 

THAT'S what worries me.

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There was an interesting segment about this on the news last night. Many of these schools do worse than their equivalent state schools.

 

I know someone who is a school governor. He is the only parent I know who is allowed to take his son out of school during term-time to go skiing.

 

Influence, do you suppose?

 

THAT'S what worries me.

 

That is quite simply not true. Any parent can take their child out of school for a holiday, as I have done three times. If the child is on target and meets the previous terms attendance requirements, then the holiday will be authorised as "Approved absence" (Much like sickdays) if the child is not on target or below the required attendance rate, the holiday will be listed as "Unapproved absence". (It's not quite as black and white as that, as obviously there is room for dialogue etc)

 

If the childs "Unapproved absence" exceeds a certain amount (Not sure what it is) then the they can involve social services etc etc and the fines that we read about can be dished out.

 

You post some good stuff BTF, but are prone to scaremongering, when it comes to politics, animal rights etc.

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There was an interesting segment about this on the news last night. Many of these schools do worse than their equivalent state schools.

It was in New York, which is where the Tories went on a 'fact finding' visit before drawing up their proposals. What happens is that the schools are given an operating licence for up to five years, have to follow all state statutes and curriculum guidelines, and if they fail to perform at least in line with the average of the state system, the state takes the school over.

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All this returning power to the people is effing populist rubbish that is the largest crock of crap going.

 

What will happen is nothing will get done.

 

You try and hand planning powers back to local councils and every waste management facility, power station, wind farm and industrial park will get vetoed by NIMBYS.

 

And the rubbish will pile up around us, landfill will continue and energy blackouts will become a reality.

 

Bloody idiots. It just shows how unprepared and irresponsible the Tories are.

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That is quite simply not true. Any parent can take their child out of school for a holiday, as I have done three times. If the child is on target and meets the previous terms attendance requirements, then the holiday will be authorised as "Approved absence" (Much like sickdays) if the child is not on target or below the required attendance rate, the holiday will be listed as "Unapproved absence". (It's not quite as black and white as that, as obviously there is room for dialogue etc)

 

If the childs "Unapproved absence" exceeds a certain amount (Not sure what it is) then the they can involve social services etc etc and the fines that we read about can be dished out.

 

You post some good stuff BTF, but are prone to scaremongering, when it comes to politics, animal rights etc.

 

No, this is true. I worked for the guy. He used to do it every year AND a couple of years ago also took him out of school to go to the 6 Nations in Italy (Mr TF was in that party so it is fact).

 

Remind me when I've ever commented on animal rights :confused:

 

Human rights yes, for sure.

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No, this is true. I worked for the guy. He used to do it every year AND a couple of years ago also took him out of school to go to the 6 Nations in Italy (Mr TF was in that party so it is fact).

 

Remind me when I've ever commented on animal rights :confused:

 

Human rights yes, for sure.

 

You might want to read the post again.... I was saying it was not true that only govenors can take their kids out of school..... Anyody can do it.

I took my lad to the World cup - all approved

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You might want to read the post again.... I was saying it was not true that only govenors can take their kids out of school..... Anyody can do it.

I took my lad to the World cup - all approved

 

And re-read mine then. I didn't SAY that only governors can take their kids out of school. I said that someone I knew, who is a governor, did. And that he was the only parent, to my knowledge, who had been allowed to do so.

 

I then questioned whether this was because of 'influence'.

 

I didn't say it was.

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It was in New York, which is where the Tories went on a 'fact finding' visit before drawing up their proposals. What happens is that the schools are given an operating licence for up to five years, have to follow all state statutes and curriculum guidelines, and if they fail to perform at least in line with the average of the state system, the state takes the school over.

 

That seems pretty sensible to me.

 

You can, as others have pointed out, already do this under a Labour Govt.To me there's only 2 sides to take in this debate, either for or against. You can not say, we're for Labour's independent schools, but against Tory ones.

 

 

Personally, I thought the Tory manifesto gave pause for thought.

 

I am all for power being given back to the people on a whole range of issues. I would like to see directly elected officals in a variety of local roles, and more freedom for local councils to set local taxes ect. One of the great thing about American politics is the localisation of issues, from primary elections to directly elected Police chiefs and referundum on issues affected local people.

 

The strange thing was it was the Tories that took away a lot of Local decisions because of the loony left wing councils of the 80's. My take on it is if the voters of Liverpool, London and Glasgow want the Derek Hatton's of the world to run their cities, let them. The whole thing about localisation is the local people get the officals they deserve and want.If they mess it up, then kick them out. It wont happen of course, there's proberly a EU directive making it impossible.

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You wrote....

Ha-ha - since when was the modern Labour Party left wing?

 

To which I pointed out that the lefties of Lambeth (who are a bunch of lefty loonies) were quite happy to help out.

 

 

 

As for who I would vote for, anyone with centre right views does not have a lot of choice....

 

Tory

UKIP (single issue, bunch of chancers)

BNP (socialists in wolves clothing)

 

 

Whereas those on the left have:

Labour

Lib Dems

Greens

Respect

The co-operative party

 

If I had to choose one from the right it would be tory and if I really had to choose one from the left it would be Respect..... purely for the comedy value of giving George Galloway more air time.... don't agree with his politics, but he is one politician that makes me laugh. If Doug Richards (of Dragon's Den) stood with his Entrepreneurs Manifesto, he would definately get my vote without question.

 

 

I think that it would be difficult to argue that Lambeth council are representative of the Labour Party, just as arguing that Nicholas Winterton (people who don't travel 1st class on trains are a different sort of person to those travelling standard class) is representative of the Tory party would be inaccurate.

 

I think Entrepreneurship is definately worth encouraging too - but I don't understand why higher taxes inevitably mean it is discouraged. In my experience entrepreneurs are motivated as much by the freedom and challenge of the business they are engaged in, as the rewards.

 

I don't know Doug Richards manifesto - but I would certainly support the removal of excessive regulation of small businesses, state provision of support (ie. cheap loans) for start-up companies, deferred tax incentives for start-ups etc. Is this the kind of thing he is advocating.... or does he go along the old 'more tax breaks for the risk-takers' road ?

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And re-read mine then. I didn't SAY that only governors can take their kids out of school. I said that someone I knew, who is a governor, did. And that he was the only parent, to my knowledge, who had been allowed to do so.

 

I then questioned whether this was because of 'influence'.

 

I didn't say it was.

 

Certainly not worth an argument BTF, but if you really didn't know that this is available to all parents, then you are probably not well placed to comment on the subject, espeacially to then question / imply that this may be down to his "Influence" was wrong.

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I think that it would be difficult to argue that Lambeth council are representative of the Labour Party, just as arguing that Nicholas Winterton (people who don't travel 1st class on trains are a different sort of person to those travelling standard class) is representative of the Tory party would be inaccurate.

 

I think Entrepreneurship is definately worth encouraging too - but I don't understand why higher taxes inevitably mean it is discouraged. In my experience entrepreneurs are motivated as much by the freedom and challenge of the business they are engaged in, as the rewards.

 

I don't know Doug Richards manifesto - but I would certainly support the removal of excessive regulation of small businesses, state provision of support (ie. cheap loans) for start-up companies, deferred tax incentives for start-ups etc. Is this the kind of thing he is advocating.... or does he go along the old 'more tax breaks for the risk-takers' road ?

 

 

Have a read and you decide....

 

http://www.schoolforstartups.co.uk/2010/01/18/the-entrepreneurs-manifesto-declaration-of-rights-empowering-the-new-wave/

 

 

It's less about left or right and more about the right attitude at the end of the day. If this was the manifesto of a standing party, I would vote for it hands down (irrespective of previous party allegiences).

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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Parents running schools, and patients running hospitals is total madness. Despite what they say, they really don't have a clue what is best for schools and hospitals and it would just pull the whole system down. I understand taking in their opinion and using it to make reasoned decisions but we can not have them running these public services, it would be anarchy. The normal person does not have the knowledge or time to run a school or hospital.

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Parents running schools, and patients running hospitals is total madness. Despite what they say, they really don't have a clue what is best for schools and hospitals and it would just pull the whole system down. I understand taking in their opinion and using it to make reasoned decisions but we can not have them running these public services, it would be anarchy. The normal person does not have the knowledge or time to run a school or hospital.

 

Absolutely right Andy.

 

In any event, people can already get involved in many of the non-professional decisions of these bodies.

 

There are patient representatives on hospital trust boards and we've already talked about school governors.

 

But to have time to do these things you have to be self-employed / retired.

 

But never on a professional level! Imagine trying to tell a consultant orthopaedic surgeon how to conduct his/her clinics or a hospital theatres manager how to run lists. Blimey, hospital chief executives have enough trouble trying to do just this!

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There's two ends to this scale: at one end too much government interference at the other end too little government involvement.

 

All voters need to know is that labour are closer to the former and the Tories closer to the latter.

 

It's just a philisophicsl choice. That's all.

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There's two ends to this scale: at one end too much government interference at the other end too little government involvement.

 

All voters need to know is that labour are closer to the former and the Tories closer to the latter.

 

It's just a philisophicsl choice. That's all.

 

smaller goverment - sounds good to me, stop them wasting all that money and have that money at a more local level.

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