Can you make a judgement next Christmas?

[The Kraken]

Quite how there can be so much spite surrounding one of the best periods of form I can ever remember from Saints is clearly lost on me. There was me thinking Saints winning games was enjoyable; not simply a method for winding up other fans about. How odd.

[revolution saint]

Quite how there can be so much spite surrounding one of the best periods of form I can ever remember from Saints is clearly lost on me. There was me thinking Saints winning games was enjoyable; not simply a method for winding up other fans about. How odd.

 

to be fair it's mostly the fans who don't go to games mate.

[alpine_saint]

to be fair it's mostly the fans who don't go to games mate.

 

Thats plain B*ll*cks.

 

Its only me that doesnt go to games, Saint_stevo, TDD and Glasgow_saint for example go to games.

 

And just to balance the equation, the arch-zero ambition and Chief Happy-Clapper SOGGY goes to less games than me.

[Professor]

I'm critical of Pardew at times, and obviously there are other managers who could do the job, but I don't understand why fans immediately turn to 'sack the manager' as the only option if results are not going well, or even, are less than perfect. Any other manager would have his own set of weaknesses, because the perfect manager doesn't exist and the manager is not the only factor in how well the team plays.

 

Seems that NC has already used the alternative approach, which is to give the manager a hard time if results need to improve. Carrot and stick motivation, with the stick used when necessary, but not uncoupling the donkey from the cart.

[The Kraken]

I'm critical of Pardew at times, and obviously there are other managers who could do the job, but I don't understand why fans immediately turn to 'sack the manager' as the only option if results are not going well, or even, are less than perfect. Any other manager would have his own set of weaknesses, because the perfect manager doesn't exist and the manager is not the only factor in how well the team plays.

 

Seems that NC has already used the alternative approach, which is to give the manager a hard time if results need to improve. Carrot and stick motivation, with the stick used when necessary, but not uncoupling the donkey from the cart.

 

That's all well and good on the rare occasion, but you only need to look at David Sullivan at Wet Sham to see how the chairman consistently giving the football team a verbal kicking can actually have a negative effect on the team, rather than positive effect he wants it to have. It becomes a media circus and arguably puts even more pressure on the team.

 

Like you say, no manager is going to get it right all the time. But unfortunately we live in a society with instant news whereby after any bad result the manager is going to get some stick from some quarters, whether it be the media, fans, or the chairman. I just happen to think that a football club should be seen to be working together rather than creating the image that there is a rift between the team and the management (which has had to be vehemently denied by NC at SFC), and any criticism of the manager by the chairman should be done in-house. That's not to say that AP or any manager for that matter should be beyond criticism, simply that there's often no need for the chairman to do his dirty washing in public.

[Legod Third Coming]

That's all well and good on the rare occasion, but you only need to look at David Sullivan at Wet Sham to see how the chairman consistently giving the football team a verbal kicking can actually have a negative effect on the team, rather than positive effect he wants it to have. It becomes a media circus and arguably puts even more pressure on the team.

 

Like you say, no manager is going to get it right all the time. But unfortunately we live in a society with instant news whereby after any bad result the manager is going to get some stick from some quarters, whether it be the media, fans, or the chairman. I just happen to think that a football club should be seen to be working together rather than creating the image that there is a rift between the team and the management (which has had to be vehemently denied by NC at SFC), and any criticism of the manager by the chairman should be done in-house. That's not to say that AP or any manager for that matter should be beyond criticism, simply that there's often no need for the chairman to do his dirty washing in public.

 

I agree with this 110%. If you want to praise do it in public. Anything else MUST be behind closed doors. That is the essence of leadership for anyone out there starting off a career in management. Abide by this rule and you won't go far wrong... oh and surround yourself with people who are better than you are.

[Fan The Flames]

Not sure what you're being smug about.

 

Pardew is proving you wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

But unlike you most on here are happy to be proved wrong if it benefits the Saints, all you and Alpine care about is the argument. Looking at him quoting you and heheing what a f#cking big girl. Release yourself from all this loathing and step back from the blame culture.

 

No matter how much you and Alpine and the other very few on here bang on, the majority will put this season down as a success, what ever happens next season this season will be regarded as such.

 

If we don't go up this year it will be down to a couple of bad results, that's not really any ones fault, in hindsight AP would have played the same team and probably the same tactics. The margin between success and failure and all that. It's difficult to blame anyone for beating Norwich away and then drawing at Wycombe, thrashing Huddersfield and then losing at Tranmere.

 

We will go up this season, next season or even one of two seasons after that and I'm sure that there will be good times and bad times between now and then. But judging by our current standards it will be more good than bad.

[alpine_saint]

But unlike you most on here are happy to be proved wrong if it benefits the Saints, all you and Alpine care about is the argument. Looking at him quoting you and heheing what a f#cking big girl. Release yourself from all this loathing and step back from the blame culture.

 

No matter how much you and Alpine and the other very few on here bang on, the majority will put this season down as a success, what ever happens next season this season will be regarded as such.

 

If we don't go up this year it will be down to a couple of bad results, that's not really any ones fault, in hindsight AP would have played the same team and probably the same tactics. The margin between success and failure and all that. It's difficult to blame anyone for beating Norwich away and then drawing at Wycombe, thrashing Huddersfield and then losing at Tranmere.

 

We will go up this season, next season or even one of two seasons after that and I'm sure that there will be good times and bad times between now and then. But judging by our current standards it will be more good than bad.

 

Mental. CBF has been claiming playoffs were possible for ages. And I have been thinking it since the Pompey game.

 

Who said this season hasnt been successful ? The question is, has the amount of success brought been value-for-money.

 

I would argue that it is marginal, that withough infurating loss of consistency we would be sitting pretty for a play-off place. The answer would then be an unequivocal yes.

 

Not one is calling for APs head yet. This thread is about where we are at Xmas. I want him to have us at the top of the pile, promotion imminent.

 

Grow up and learn that the world isnt black-and-white.

[The Kraken]

The question is, has the amount of success brought been value-for-money.

 

This isn't a dig at your non-attendance but I do think you need to have been to games to fully understand just how much the club has changed throughout, from the team on the pitch, the management, the ownership structure; all this has completely filtered through to the feelgood factor amongst fans and therefore the atmosphere at games. The difference between this season and and the past 2 or 3 is like night and day. Has it come at a financial cost? Of course? Has it been worth it and "value for money"? Yes, ten times over.

 

Promotion is still on this season, and what a cracking month or two we have in store. But even if we don't go up many fans will be able to look back on the season as one of the most enjoyable for a long time. The most enjoyable thing about football is going to games and having a good time; good results often go hand in hand with that but there's more to football than just the league table. And AP (and his spending) have more than contributed to that.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Dav

That's all well and good on the rare occasion, but you only need to look at David Sullivan at Wet Sham to see how the chairman consistently giving the football team a verbal kicking can actually have a negative effect on the team, rather than positive effect he wants it to have. It becomes a media circus and arguably puts even more pressure on the team.

 

Like you say, no manager is going to get it right all the time. But unfortunately we live in a society with instant news whereby after any bad result the manager is going to get some stick from some quarters, whether it be the media, fans, or the chairman. I just happen to think that a football club should be seen to be working together rather than creating the image that there is a rift between the team and the management (which has had to be vehemently denied by NC at SFC), and any criticism of the manager by the chairman should be done in-house. That's not to say that AP or any manager for that matter should be beyond criticism, simply that there's often no need for the chairman to do his dirty washing in public.

I agree with this 110%. If you want to praise do it in public. Anything else MUST be behind closed doors. That is the essence of leadership for anyone out there starting off a career in management. Abide by this rule and you won't go far wrong... oh and surround yourself with people who are better than you are.

 

Let's have a look at what actually happened. Pardew made a comment after the MK Dons game that he prioritised the cups. When Cortese was asked regarding the priorities being the cups, he replied "No, the league is the top, top priority".

 

Now you can read into this what ever you want, but this is the only comment where all these divisions have generated from. As I have already said, in any other form of business his arse would have been bouncing down the road a long time ago for such action.

[Legod Third Coming]

Let's have a look at what actually happened. Pardew made a comment after the MK Dons game that he prioritised the cups. When Cortese was asked regarding the priorities being the cups, he replied "No, the league is the top, top priority".

 

Now you can read into this what ever you want, but this is the only comment where all these divisions have generated from. As I have already said, in any other form of business his arse would have been bouncing down the road a long time ago for such action.

 

I'm not so sure... If I make a comment to the press about my business and then one of my staff makes a contradictory comment, I call them in, we have a chat and we agree a way forward. I don't fire him if he's doing a good job for having his own opinion!

[Fan The Flames]

Mental. CBF has been claiming playoffs were possible for ages. And I have been thinking it since the Pompey game.

 

Who said this season hasnt been successful ? The question is, has the amount of success brought been value-for-money.

 

I would argue that it is marginal, that withough infurating loss of consistency we would be sitting pretty for a play-off place. The answer would then be an unequivocal yes.

 

Not one is calling for APs head yet. This thread is about where we are at Xmas. I want him to have us at the top of the pile, promotion imminent.

 

Grow up and learn that the world isnt black-and-white.

 

I wasn't commenting on his stance on SFC as frankly I've got more going on in my life to remember where people are in the debates on here. I was commenting on his and yours attitude and I stand by what I said, you and him are more interested in your own opinions and have a desperate quest to be constantly proved right.

 

Surely the value for money part is use in your judgement of whether the season has been a success or not, you don't think the season has been successful and then test it for vfm; its all in the round, at least it is if you can handle judging more that one criteria at a time.

 

There are games where we should have won, but we won games I thought we would lose. You can't deny that win our game in hand +10 we would be right in the mix at a time we are really coming into form.

 

As for your last bit I'm lost, what have I got to grow up over. As this last time I looked the one who has to step over the line and get personal, sulk, feel picked on, hehehe at other personal digs, constantly moan about the Saints is you, Alpenis Saint.

[The Kraken]

Let's have a look at what actually happened. Pardew made a comment after the MK Dons game that he prioritised the cups. When Cortese was asked regarding the priorities being the cups, he replied "No, the league is the top, top priority".

 

Now you can read into this what ever you want, but this is the only comment where all these divisions have generated from. As I have already said, in any other form of business his arse would have been bouncing down the road a long time ago for such action.

 

Well I'm sorry but I've never see a quote from Pardew where he has placed cup priority over the league. He's said this before:

 

"All of the cups are a priority for me personally, and so is the league programme. It's a torunament that we're in so we should try to win it. I think that attitude has not always been the case at a number of clubs, not just Southampton, but certainly while I'm here we'll try and win everything that we enter."

 

That's not prioritising the cups at all; simply stating that we won't devalue them and will put a first choice team out for every game we play.

[Freemantle Saint]

I wasn't commenting on his stance on SFC as frankly I've got more going on in my life to remember where people are in the debates on here. I was commenting on his and yours attitude and I stand by what I said, you and him are more interested in your own opinions and have a desperate quest to be constantly proved right.

 

Surely the value for money part is use in your judgement of whether the season has been a success or not, you don't think the season has been successful and then test it for vfm; its all in the round, at least it is if you can handle judging more that one criteria at a time.

 

There are games where we should have won, but we won games I thought we would lose. You can't deny that win our game in hand +10 we would be right in the mix at a time we are really coming into form.

 

As for your last bit I'm lost, what have I got to grow up over. As this last time I looked the one who has to step over the line and get personal, sulk, feel picked on, hehehe at other personal digs, constantly moan about the Saints is you, Alpenis Saint.[/quote

 

 

Its been a good season, the whole mood around the ground is more upbeat. Im talking to mates who are getting season tickets next season because they have enjoyed this season so much.

 

Some peoples lives revolve around this site, and they love to dissect every aspect of saints!! and half of them couldnt tell lallana and antonio apart!!

 

i suspect like you say they just want to prove their own opinions right!

 

 

For me pardews done a pretty good job, yes i go to games, yes i will be getting a season ticket next year, no im not an "Internet Fan"

[CB Fry]

But unlike you most on here are happy to be proved wrong if it benefits the Saints, all you and Alpine care about is the argument. Looking at him quoting you and heheing what a f#cking big girl. Release yourself from all this loathing and step back from the blame culture.

 

No matter how much you and Alpine and the other very few on here bang on, the majority will put this season down as a success, what ever happens next season this season will be regarded as such.

 

If we don't go up this year it will be down to a couple of bad results, that's not really any ones fault, in hindsight AP would have played the same team and probably the same tactics. The margin between success and failure and all that. It's difficult to blame anyone for beating Norwich away and then drawing at Wycombe, thrashing Huddersfield and then losing at Tranmere.

 

We will go up this season, next season or even one of two seasons after that and I'm sure that there will be good times and bad times between now and then. But judging by our current standards it will be more good than bad.

 

 

Eh?

 

Pardew is delivering the success I said he could deliver and was possible from August onwards.

 

When people on here sneer and talk down to you for believing the play offs were possible in August then yes I will come on here and crow at people like SOG who decided what I thought was "unrealistic" and I "needed a reality check" and was "impatient".

 

Well I was right because I said the play offs were realistic back in August.

 

So don't come on here and tell me this season is a success. I f ucking well knew it would be.

 

Talk to the mongs like SOG who were talking about "just staying up" in August.

[JackFrost]

Eh?

 

Pardew is delivering the success I said he could deliver and was possible from August onwards.

 

When people on here sneer and talk down to you for believing the play offs were possible in August then yes I will come on here and crow at people like SOG who decided what I thought was "unrealistic" and I "needed a reality check" and was "impatient".

 

Well I was right because I said the play offs were realistic back in August.

 

So don't come on here and tell me this season is a success. I f ucking well knew it would be.

 

Talk to the mongs like SOG who were talking about "just staying up" in August.

 

But it works both ways.

 

AP was a very good appointment, but we were a p1ss poor team when he took over. There was all of a sudden renewed optimism after years of doom and gloom. Maybe SOG was merely calling for patience because he was warning against people calling for AP's head if we weren't wiping out the 10 point deficit in the first five games. Pessimism maybe, but it's a valid point.

 

I'm sure someone could find a quote from Poortvliet 'believing' in success with his brand of "total football", and a lot of saints fans falling for the PR for that matter.

[sadoldgit]

Eh?

 

Pardew is delivering the success I said he could deliver and was possible from August onwards.

 

When people on here sneer and talk down to you for believing the play offs were possible in August then yes I will come on here and crow at people like SOG who decided what I thought was "unrealistic" and I "needed a reality check" and was "impatient".

 

Well I was right because I said the play offs were realistic back in August.

 

So don't come on here and tell me this season is a success. I f ucking well knew it would be.

 

 

 

Sounds like you went to the same charm school as your mucker Alpine. The play offs did not seem possible the way we started the season and Pardew and the team have done tremendously well to put themselves into the frame.

 

If I am a "mong" (how old are you?) for suggesting that we should be patient with Pardew and give him time to do his job, I am not going to apologise for that, but I am gald to see that you are a huge fan of his. Perhaps you can PM Alps and tell him that we have a decent manager who needs and deserves support.

 

Crow away, you just make yourself look like your friend Mr Angry.

 

Oh and by the way Alpine, no one goes to less games than you mate.

[sadoldgit]

Mental. CBF has been claiming playoffs were possible for ages. And I have been thinking it since the Pompey game.

 

Who said this season hasnt been successful ? The question is, has the amount of success brought been value-for-money.

 

I would argue that it is marginal, that withough infurating loss of consistency we would be sitting pretty for a play-off place. The answer would then be an unequivocal yes.

 

Not one is calling for APs head yet. This thread is about where we are at Xmas. I want him to have us at the top of the pile, promotion imminent.

 

Grow up and learn that the world isnt black-and-white.

 

Christ you really do take the biscuit. If anyone comes on constantly and proves with every post that he believes the world is black and white it is YOU!

 

By the way, if it wasn't for the -10 points we would be sitting pretty in the play off spots, something you keep conveniently "forgetting".

 

Oh, and if your mate Mr Fry is reading this...please note where he says "no one is calling for AP's head YET"

 

Hardly a ringing endorsement of a manager who has given us our best season for years.

Edited 15 April, 2010 by sadoldgit

[CB Fry]

Sounds like you went to the same charm school as your mucker Alpine. The play offs did not seem possible the way we started the season and Pardew and the team have done tremendously well to put themselves into the frame.

 

If I am a "mong" (how old are you?) for suggesting that we should be patient with Pardew and give him time to do his job, I am not going to apologise for that, but I am gald to see that you are a huge fan of his. Perhaps you can PM Alps and tell him that we have a decent manager who needs and deserves support.

 

Crow away, you just make yourself look like your friend Mr Angry.

 

Oh and by the way Alpine, no one goes to less games than you mate.

 

Pardew delivered instant success. You said it couldn't be done.

 

Pardew did it because of the fantastic investment into the team. You said money doesn't make any difference.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

 

Christ you really do take the biscuit. If anyone comes on constantly and proves with every post that he believes the world is black and white it is YOU!

 

By the way, if it wasn't for the -10 points we would be sitting pretty in the play off spots, something you keep conveniently "forgetting".

 

Oh, and if your mate Mr Fry is reading this...please note where he says "no one is calling for AP's head YET"

 

Hardly a ringing endorsement of a manager who has given us our best season for years.

 

 

No one is calling for Pardew's head yet. You've been making out they've been calling for his head in your dopey dreamworld since about August.

 

The key word is No-one.