Myth busting

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Just because you believe that to create wealth for everyone you need to have a government sympathetic to business does not mean that you are not compassionate.

 

Just because you believe in putting the interests of British people ahead of other people's and nations does not make you a neo nazi.

 

Bigots are not exclusive to the right of centre.

 

Our nation is great because of we are all tolerant of other people's politics. Only in recent years have people been arrested for saying what they think from racists to Muslim clerics. If somebody says something that you disagree with argue with them do not have them arrested.

[Johnny Bognor]

Just because you believe that to create wealth for everyone you need to have a government sympathetic to business does not mean that you are not compassionate.

 

Best comment on here for ages.

 

I have no problem in supporting the weak. I happen to believe that generating national wealth is for the benefit of everyone - whether that is in the form of more jobs, better paid jobs or more available for the welfare state.

 

The problem for me is that left of centre parties are driven by the politics of envy and are more interested in taking the rich down a peg or two, rather that looking at what can make us all better off. My view is more akin to socialism than the socialists. I want everyone to be better off rather than making some worse off to enable others to be better off.

[badgerx16]

My view is more akin to socialism than the socialists. I want everyone to be better off rather than making some worse off to enable others to be better off.

 

But is asking those who can afford it to contribute more so as to ensure the "greater good", really making them worse off ? I do not think for a second, ( as a simplistic example ), that asking David & Samantha Cameron to pay an extra 5% tax on earnings over £150K is going to leave them struggling to make ends meet.

[trousers]

 

But is asking those who can afford it to contribute more so as to ensure the "greater good", really making them worse off ? I do not think for a second, ( as a simplistic example ), that asking David & Samantha Cameron to pay an extra 5% tax on earnings over £150K is going to leave them struggling to make ends meet.

 

But if 'society' lets them keep the extra 5% rather than collecting it to feed government beaurocracy they will inject it into the economy by purchasing goods, ploughing it into savings etc, thus creating a greater demand for jobs thus making everybody down the food chain a little richer and more prosperous in the process.

 

Capitalism = win win

[Lord Duckhunter]

Before Mrs Thatcher the top rate of tax was 83% and the basic rate 33%. When she reduced the rates, the tax take went up. This is because higher taxes stiffle growth.

 

It is better for people to have more money in their pockets than Govt. If you could convince me that higher taxes would lead to French standard public services, then I may change my mind, but whilst we have a wasteful Labour Govt, that gives the Unions millions to "modernise", that pay countless toerags benefits, and employ all the Diveristy experts and Lesbian stop smoking officers, I'll stay with my beliefs.

 

Someone earning £66,000 a year can claim Child benefit, if that child is under one, he can also claim Working Family Tax Credit. A millionaire can use the NHS for free. If you want to take money from the rich to distribute to the poor, there are better ways of doing it than taxing people more. The problem is Labour WANT to tax people more, it plays well with their grassroots.

[badgerx16]

But if 'society' lets them keep the extra 5% rather than collecting it to feed government beaurocracy they will inject it into the economy by purchasing goods, ploughing it into savings etc, thus creating a greater demand for jobs thus making everybody down the food chain a little richer and more prosperous in the process.

 

Capitalism = win win

I don't think so : ROLEX Oyster watches, BMW & MERCEDES cars, summer holidays on Mustique or Capri, winter ones in Switzerland, clothes bought from a boutique in Monte Carlo, and money shifted into tax-free investments in the Cayman Islands or the BVI. Not a lot getting invested into the British economy there.

 

Capitalism - those who have it look to keep it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If high tax rates are the answer, why when Thatcher reduced them did tax take go up?

[Johnny Bognor]

I don't think so : ROLEX Oyster watches, BMW & MERCEDES cars, summer holidays on Mustique or Capri, winter ones in Switzerland, clothes bought from a boutique in Monte Carlo, and money shifted into tax-free investments in the Cayman Islands or the BVI. Not a lot getting invested into the British economy there.

 

Capitalism - those who have it look to keep it.

 

...but someone has to make those things, albeit in a different country which undoubtedly makes their worse off better off. Conversely, the wealthy foreingers buy English high end goods, which is a cash flow into our economy.

 

As for holidays, they don't walk to Mustique or Capri as the chances are they probably fly BA which keeps BA cabin crews on £80kpa.

 

As for investments, the City of London creates wealth (when it is not acting like a casino) for UK plc as the funds of the worlds wealthy pass through our banking systems.

 

Therefore, rather than focus on the well off (although I agree that they could pay more), why not focus on creating an environment where entrepreneurs want to produce things that people want to buy which creates jobs and ultimately wealth for everyone.

 

That is why I am fundamentally against the increase on employers NI. If there was a policy of reducing NI if you employ more people, then this would certainly be closer to the utopia that I seek for everyone.

 

I have posted this before, but this would be the party for me, if they existed that is.....

 

http://www.schoolforstartups.co.uk/2010/01/18/the-entrepreneurs-manifesto-declaration-of-rights-empowering-the-new-wave/

 

So I am not necessarily against taxing the rich, but for me it is about priorities and focusing on the right areas. Focusing on taxing the rich will not make the nation rich. It is merely a re-distribution tool, which although maybe necessary, will not lift the the living standards of all on its own.

 

The economy is in a mess and the natin is drowning in debt, therefore the short term priority must be to get the wealth creators to create some wealth. Once this is achieved I am happy to discuss the redistribution of this wealth.

Edited 10 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I don't think so : ROLEX Oyster watches, BMW & MERCEDES cars, summer holidays on Mustique or Capri, winter ones in Switzerland, clothes bought from a boutique in Monte Carlo, and money shifted into tax-free investments in the Cayman Islands or the BVI. Not a lot getting invested into the British economy there.

 

Capitalism - those who have it look to keep it.

 

 

That is the whole point Badger!! You are creating jobs for watch makers at Rolex, car makers at Rolls Royce and waiters in Mustique. How can you not understand that!

[Fuengirola Saint]

But if 'society' lets them keep the extra 5% rather than collecting it to feed government beaurocracy they will inject it into the economy by purchasing goods, ploughing it into savings etc, thus creating a greater demand for jobs thus making everybody down the food chain a little richer and more prosperous in the process.

 

Capitalism = win win

 

Ah the trickle down effect, let the rich keep all their money and maybe just maybe we might see some crumbs

I´m not advocating taxing them until the pips squeak but i think it´s unfair that the poorest in society pay a higher percentage of their income in tax than do the richest.

Tell me thats fair!

[Johnny Bognor]

Ah the trickle down effect, let the rich keep all their money and maybe just maybe we might see some crumbs

I´m not advocating taxing them until the pips squeak but i think it´s unfair that the poorest in society pay a higher percentage of their income in tax than do the richest.

Tell me thats fair!

 

 

But you assume they have mountains of cash locked away in a cupboard and that there is no benefit to the less well off at all.

 

Unfortuntely for you, this does not happen. The capital is often deployed. This means that money is invested, which creates jobs in the fin svcs industry. These investments are often going into / financing companies to help them create further jobs and wealth. They spend their money on high end goods and services which also creates jobs.

 

Taking money off them, which may help the less well off in the short term, does not help the nation as a whole get richer and the poor will remain poor in the long run.

 

Perhaps a better way would be to give them a choice.....invest in British industry or we'll tax it. This would either help the less well off (keeping you happy) or create jobs and opportunity for everyone (which would keep me happy).

 

Damn, I'm good. I should go into politics.

Edited 10 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Ah the trickle down effect, let the rich keep all their money and maybe just maybe we might see some crumbs

I´m not advocating taxing them until the pips squeak but i think it´s unfair that the poorest in society pay a higher percentage of their income in tax than do the richest.

Tell me thats fair!

 

So who is going to create all this money for you so you can just sit back and wait for it to come to you. Wealth has to be created. To make money you have to have the right environment to encourage investment and the biggest deterrent to investment is high taxes and red tape.

[Fuengirola Saint]

So who is going to create all this money for you so you can just sit back and wait for it to come to you. Wealth has to be created. To make money you have to have the right environment to encourage investment and the biggest deterrent to investment is high taxes and red tape.

 

I didn´t advocate high taxes only fair ones

[Fuengirola Saint]

Perhaps a better way would be to give them a choice.....invest in British industry or we'll tax it. This would either help the less well off (keeping you happy) or create jobs and opportunity for everyone (which would keep me happy).

 

.

 

I can´t believe i´m going to say this but i think we might have some common ground there

[Johnny Bognor]

I can´t believe i´m going to say this but i think we might have some common ground there

 

At the end of the day, I think all parties red, blue and yellow have a lot to answer for. There are many things that could be done to put the great back into britain. That's all I want at the end of the day. I just happen to have a different view as to how to get there to most. I would even go as far as saying that I could put a manifesto together that would re-mobilise the whole nation within 5 years. Unfortunately I don't have the means to launch a political party, so I have to sit by and watch this once great nation slide into the abyss.

Edited 10 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor