BNP

[dune]

LOL.

 

You are either a really good WUM or really thick or maybe both.

 

I genuinely pity you.

 

I've said i won't result to abuse, could you please return the courtesy.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Where as the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Police Federation are all masons

[View From The Top]

I've said i won't result to abuse, could you please return the courtesy.

 

Consider it a statement of fact.

[ecuk268]

Where as the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Police Federation are all masons

 

Aren't the masons the right-wing equivalent of the unions but more secretive?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Aren't the masons the right-wing equivalent of the unions but more secretive?

 

My point was that people are having a pop at Dune for pigeonholing lefties, whilst doing the same themselves.

[View From The Top]

My point was that people are having a pop at Dune for pigeonholing lefties, whilst doing the same themselves.

 

Because they weren't clearly tongue in cheek were they?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

IamLeGod and dune; you are BOTH correct to certain degrees: With out getting too 'history' on you, dune is correct in that we had an alliance with Poland which Hitler thought Chamberlain would never honour and IamLeGod is correct in so much as Britain was outraged by German actions after Kristallnacht towards German Jews and initiated the 'Kinder Transport' programme.

[dune]

Because they weren't clearly tongue in cheek were they?

 

No they weren't. I never joke about politics.

[View From The Top]

No they weren't. I never joke about politics.

 

Not you, eck and the other intelligent posters.

[dune]

I can see the BNP ( and UKIP ) making real headway in this election, with the possibility of quite a few seats.

 

What are peoples thoughts on this?

 

Also, where/when is a list of candidates announced? I assume that BNP won't bother standing in Romsey?

 

Here you go Stu, your perfect candidate.

 

http://www.hustings.com/chris-bluemel

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Once again I refer Dune to comments made by Tebbit who calls the BNP a Socialist Party.

 

Not sure Dune gets much of this stuff, mind!

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/normantebbit/100022233/the-left-wing-bnp-could-cost-labour-seats-at-the-general-election/

 

But aren't the BNP a specific type of Socialist Party?

 

National Socialists?

 

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERnazi.htm

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Interesting debate about jobs and "immigrants". Did you see the programme on a while ago where the Brits were workshy and the "immigrants" got on with what they needed to do?

 

By the way, we are all techically "immigrants". The USA, Australia, the UK, we all became what we are through immigration. We opened the doors to mass immiration in the 50's and brought in people who were prepared to do the jobs that the Brits didn't fancy. Pretty much the same is happening now with Eastern Europenas doing what the West Indians did.

 

By the way, the incoming figures need to be balance with the outgoing. Plenty of people emmigate too.

 

There is a debate to be had on immigration control, but a sensible debate based on facts and not the racist scare mongering that the BNP perpetrate.

 

Okay, so the major parties have not covered themselves in glory, but to give your vote to a racists outfit on that basis is chilling. Apart from what they will do with immigration (deportation?) can you imagine them let loose on the economy and other major issues?

 

God help us.

 

My thoughts and fears exactly!

[Huntingdon]

I'd like to see the BNP do well, but not too well

 

I get the impression most people are bored with all parties being in the centre, desperately trying to win votes by not offending anyone

 

A good result for the BNP will make all 3 mainstream parties realise that immigration and jobs for the British are important subjects to us, and you don't have to be a racist to have strong views on immigration

[ecuk268]

I'd like to see the BNP do well, but not too well

 

I get the impression most people are bored with all parties being in the centre, desperately trying to win votes by not offending anyone

 

A good result for the BNP will make all 3 mainstream parties realise that immigration and jobs for the British are important subjects to us, and you don't have to be a racist to have strong views on immigration

 

Some of you may know Sunnyfields farm near Totton. They run a successful organic farm shop and grow their own crops locally.

 

I was out there a while ago and asked them why they employed so many Polish workers. The answer was - they turn up on time every day, they work hard and they never go off "sick". They've tried the local Job Centres but the locals seem afraid of hard work.

 

The same was shown in a recent TV programme where they were interviewing people coming out of a Job Centre and asking them if they'd like a job on the local farms. Many of them were not interested - "hard work" was a common reason.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Some of you may know Sunnyfields farm near Totton. They run a successful organic farm shop and grow their own crops locally.

 

I was out there a while ago and asked them why they employed so many Polish workers. The answer was - they turn up on time every day, they work hard and they never go off "sick". They've tried the local Job Centres but the locals seem afraid of hard work.

 

The same was shown in a recent TV programme where they were interviewing people coming out of a Job Centre and asking them if they'd like a job on the local farms. Many of them were not interested - "hard work" was a common reason.

 

This ties in neatly with the 1950's when our own population did not like doing 'menial' work. So we invited many Caribbean folk to come and live here and take employment. Hardly their fault now is it?

 

The majority of Poles I have met through my jobs have worked hard, turned up every day, and on time!

[Thedelldays]

Some of you may know Sunnyfields farm near Totton. They run a successful organic farm shop and grow their own crops locally.

 

I was out there a while ago and asked them why they employed so many Polish workers. The answer was - they turn up on time every day, they work hard and they never go off "sick". They've tried the local Job Centres but the locals seem afraid of hard work.

 

The same was shown in a recent TV programme where they were interviewing people coming out of a Job Centre and asking them if they'd like a job on the local farms. Many of them were not interested - "hard work" was a common reason.

 

 

simple..offer people coming out the job centre the job at this farm..if they turn it down..stop their benefits

 

that will soon get people back to work

[swannymere]

simple..offer people coming out the job centre the job at this farm..if they turn it down..stop their benefits

 

that will soon get people back to work

 

None of the parties have the balls to do it, plus the police are not upto the task of cracking down on the ****ers when they turn to crime as a source of income.

[Thedelldays]

the benefit system needs a massive shake up..far too many freebies being given out

[SuperMikey]

the benefit system needs a massive shake up..far too many freebies being given out

 

Agreed, but you don't need to vote BNP to get that done...

[TopGun]

simple..offer people coming out the job centre the job at this farm..if they turn it down..stop their benefits

 

that will soon get people back to work

 

If I was the employer I'd rather have hard working Poles who turn up on time every day than lazy shysters who don't want to be there, are late, rude, uncooperative and pulling sickies twice a week!

[Thedelldays]

If I was the employer I'd rather have hard working Poles who turn up on time every day than lazy shysters who don't want to be there, are late, rude, uncooperative and pulling sickies twice a week!

I bet those brits would not be so lazy IF the government stopped spoon feeding them with everything

 

IE, turn down a job that you could have reasonable done, the benefits for EVERYTHING stop immediately...simple as that

[bridge too far]

I bet those brits would not be so lazy IF the government stopped spoon feeding them with everything

 

IE, turn down a job that you could have reasonable done, the benefits for EVERYTHING stop immediately...simple as that

 

Yeah I think people should work if they can.

 

But if they can't / don't and you cut off all benefits, what do you propose to do with their children - who, let's face it, didn't ask to be born.

[dune]

If I was the employer I'd rather have hard working Poles who turn up on time every day than lazy shysters who don't want to be there, are late, rude, uncooperative and pulling sickies twice a week!

 

It's a fallacy to say English people are workshy and Poles are not. The difference between us and them is that we won't work for a pittance and we expect to work reasonable hours. Mass immigration has meant that employers have been able to keep wages down and expect employees to work all hours god sends. In a recent programme hightlighting immigant workers in the Fens one farmer (pictured in his pallatial farmhouse) was complaining that English people won't work 6 days a week for the minimum wage. I say that were it not for the immigats he'd have to pay British people the market rate and not expect them to work unreasonably long hours.

 

The BNP is very strong in places like Wisbech and you can't blame the locals for voting BNP because immigration has had a detrimental effect on them.

Edited 11 April, 2010 by dune

[Thedelldays]

Yeah I think people should work if they can.

 

But if they can't / don't and you cut off all benefits, what do you propose to do with their children - who, let's face it, didn't ask to be born.

for the kids...OFFER places at nursey and give the parents milk tokens, clothes/school uniform provided...but NO money should be handed over..

 

My missus is a family health advisor and the freebies being dished out by her kind are unreal...

[bridge too far]

for the kids...OFFER places at nursey and give the parents milk tokens, clothes/school uniform provided...but NO money should be handed over..

 

My missus is a family health advisor and the freebies being dished out by her kind are unreal...

 

Where would these children live and, milk apart, how would they be fed?

[Thedelldays]

Where would these children live and, milk apart, how would they be fed?

by the parents getting a job...IF a reasonable one was available..

IF she/he/they got to work THEN they could be helped a little bit more by the powers at be..

 

at the min (and the lady tells me daily) she visits families who are better off NOT working...they get a more cushy life style being spoon fed by the government...how is that right..?

 

if there is NO reasonable work or for medical reasons they cant work then sure, help out to a reasonable level

[bridge too far]

Sorry TDD I obviously didn't explain myself clearly.

 

If a family is denied benefits because they WON'T work then, milk tokens apart, how will the children be fed and housed? Or do you think something else should happen to the children?

[Thedelldays]

Sorry TDD I obviously didn't explain myself clearly.

 

If a family is denied benefits because they WON'T work then, milk tokens apart, how will the children be fed and housed? Or do you think something else should happen to the children?

simple question....they go to work...refusing should not be an option....why should we/i pay for someone who REFUSES to work..

 

maybe if they REFUSE to work they are not capable of being parents in the first place

[bridge too far]

simple question....they go to work...refusing should not be an option....why should we/i pay for someone who REFUSES to work..

 

maybe if they REFUSE to work they are not capable of being parents in the first place

 

But you still haven't anwered my question!

 

Maybe they're not capable of being parents - but if they already are.....?

 

What happens to the children? Easy question.

[dune]

simple question....they go to work...refusing should not be an option....why should we/i pay for someone who REFUSES to work..

 

maybe if they REFUSE to work they are not capable of being parents in the first place

 

As i said on another thread immigration has kept wages down and made many families better off living on benefits. Most immigrants are single and live in shared houses (so their expenses are less) and can afford to work for the minimum wages doing the jobs British people used to do.

[Sheaf Saint]

It's a fallacy to say English people are workshy and Poles are not. The difference between us and them is that we won't work for a pittance and we expect to work reasonable hours. Mass immigration has meant that employers have been able to keep wages down and expect employees to work all hours god sends. In a recent programme hightlighting immigant workers in the Fens one farmer (pictured in his pallatial farmhouse) was complaining that English people won't work 6 days a week for the minimum wage. I say that were it not for the immigats he'd have to pay British people the market rate and not expect them to work unreasonably long hours.

 

The BNP is very strong in places like Wisbech and you can't blame the locals for voting BNP because immigration has had a detrimental effect on them.

 

OK, this is a fair comment dune, but then you have to take into account why the farmers need to drive wages down in the first place.

 

Farmers in this country, despite providing the entire population with the most basic of essentials - food, are treated like utter sh1te by big businesses. The supermarket chains dictate to them how much their products are worth and how much they can sell their stock for. The money they actually make back is a pittance compared to other european countries, so they are forced to hire the absolute cheapest labour they can to minimise their outgoings.

 

So is this the fault of the farmers? The immigrants? The supermarket chains, or government policy for allowing this situation to develop?

 

I think the problem is that we have become used to a certain standard of living in this country, a standard that is way above that of some of our poorest european neighbours. Too many people take too many things for granted in the UK, and if immigrant workers are prepared to come in and do the jobs that our own people refuse to take then who can blame them for that?

 

If we stopped the immigrant workers from coming in to the UK and doing the menial jobs, our own people would still refuse to do those jobs and then the farms/factories etc... would be out of business completely if they could not get people in to fill the positions.

 

Like it or not - we need immigrant workers.

[ecuk268]

It's a fallacy to say English people are workshy and Poles are not. The difference between us and them is that we won't work for a pittance and we expect to work reasonable hours. Mass immigration has meant that employers have been able to keep wages down and expect employees to work all hours god sends. In a recent programme hightlighting immigant workers in the Fens one farmer (pictured in his pallatial farmhouse) was complaining that English people won't work 6 days a week for the minimum wage. I say that were it not for the immigats he'd have to pay British people the market rate and not expect them to work unreasonably long hours.

 

The BNP is very strong in places like Wisbech and you can't blame the locals for voting BNP because immigration has had a detrimental effect on them.

 

So, you'd recommend an increased minimum wage and strong unions to protect the workers rights????

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

.

Farmers in this country, despite providing the entire population with the most basic of essentials - food, are treated like utter sh1te by big businesses. The supermarket chains dictate to them how much their products are worth and how much they can sell their stock for. The money they actually make back is a pittance compared to other european countries, so they are forced to hire the absolute cheapest labour they can to minimise their outgoings.

.

 

The governemnet despise farming so much so that they have a vegetarian minister responsible for the meat & livestock industry. How offensive is that to those trying to make a living.

[Block 5]

[bridge too far]

The governemnet despise farming so much so that they have a vegetarian minister responsible for the meat & livestock industry. How offensive is that to those trying to make a living.

 

Not as offensive as your suggesting that the minister can't 'run' his department fairly.

 

Or do you also think the DoH should have a nurse running it, Education a teacher, War a former soldier?

 

FFS departments of state are actually 'run' by senior civil servants who advise ministers.

 

Moving on to farms and wages, I think it's disgraceful that supermarkets have such power over agribusinesses. I saw a programme recently where a lettuce grower was contracted to sell all his produce to one supermarket. The supermarket then told him to reduce his price. This meant he either had to do so, selling his lettuces for less than they cost to grow, or to find another buyer for his already growing lettuces. He actually walked away from the business altogether.

 

I think we need Fair Trade in this country.

[Sheaf Saint]

Not as offensive as your suggesting that the minister can't 'run' his department fairly.

 

Or do you also think the DoH should have a nurse running it, Education a teacher, War a former soldier?

 

I think the point in this situation is quite relevant though. Most vegetarians I know choose vegetarianism because they disagree with the factory farming of animals. If this is the case with our minister for the meat and livestock industry then there is something seriously wrong IMO.

[bridge too far]

But it's the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. And Hilary Benn's the SoS. A highly intelligent and principled man, like his father.

 

The Minister of State for Food, Farming and the Environment is Jim Fitzpatrick who is a vegetarian but his ministerial brief goes way beyond just livestock farming, obviously.

 

You could equally argue that the environmental / crop interests can't be fairly looked after by a carnivore. Just as stupid.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Not as offensive as your suggesting that the minister can't 'run' his department fairly.

.

 

 

Actually I do not think that he is fit to run a department when he does not eat meat for moral reasons. How can he go out to represent the UK farming industry when he is not a consumer. DEFRA is a complete shambles.

 

Yes I do believe that people running their departments should have experience in that field because they would have a better understanding and would be passionate

 

I think it was a reflection of just how much labour despises the rural communities because they believe they do not vote for them.

[Pancake]

You could equally argue that the environmental / crop interests can't be fairly looked after by a carnivore. Just as stupid.

 

I would wager my wife and children that there were no "carnivore" ministers TBF.

[bridge too far]

I would wager my wife and children that there were no "carnivore" ministers TBF.

 

I wouldn't be so sure!

 

Of course I meant meat-eating.

 

Although Wiki seems to back me up:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore

Edited 12 April, 2010 by bridge too far
wiki entry

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

But it's the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. And Hilary Benn's the SoS. A highly intelligent and principled man, like his father.

 

The Minister of State for Food, Farming and the Environment is Jim Fitzpatrick who is a vegetarian but his ministerial brief goes way beyond just livestock farming, obviously.

 

You could equally argue that the environmental / crop interests can't be fairly looked after by a carnivore. Just as stupid.

 

You do not think that there is a theme developing there. What message does it send out to the proud British farming industry to be run by vegetarians. Do you think that the French would do that?

 

It is absurd to say it does not matter!! Of course it matters to have these farming run by people who are fundememntally against it. Would you put a Muslim in charge of Jewsish affairs?

[bridge too far]

Who says these 'people' are against livestock farming (remember BTW that the brief covers ALL farming)?

 

They just choose to not eat meat.

 

Vegetarianism is not a fundamentalist religion.

 

We don't have a department of Jewish affairs. However, I can assure you that our next Ambassador to Israel is Jewish - if that makes you feel any better.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

BTF can you not see why people in the industry do not feel that comfortable with this situation and why they might just find it offensive? They 'choose' not to eat meat because they do not agree with it and are not fit to represent or make the best decisions in the interests of the industry as a result.

 

The situation exposes Labour's contempt for the farming industry and the people in it.

[IamLeGod]

OK, this is a fair comment dune, but then you have to take into account why the farmers need to drive wages down in the first place.

 

Farmers in this country, despite providing the entire population with the most basic of essentials - food, are treated like utter sh1te by big businesses. The supermarket chains dictate to them how much their products are worth and how much they can sell their stock for. The money they actually make back is a pittance compared to other european countries, so they are forced to hire the absolute cheapest labour they can to minimise their outgoings.

 

So is this the fault of the farmers? The immigrants? The supermarket chains, or government policy for allowing this situation to develop?

 

I think the problem is that we have become used to a certain standard of living in this country, a standard that is way above that of some of our poorest european neighbours. Too many people take too many things for granted in the UK, and if immigrant workers are prepared to come in and do the jobs that our own people refuse to take then who can blame them for that?

 

If we stopped the immigrant workers from coming in to the UK and doing the menial jobs, our own people would still refuse to do those jobs and then the farms/factories etc... would be out of business completely if they could not get people in to fill the positions.

 

Like it or not - we need immigrant workers.

 

That sound like something someone else said on another thread dune?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

The difference between us and them is that we won't work for a pittance and we expect to work reasonable hours.

In a recent programme hightlighting immigant workers in the Fens one farmer (pictured in his pallatial farmhouse) was complaining that English people won't work 6 days a week for the minimum wage. I say that were it not for the immigats he'd have to pay British people the market rate and not expect them to work unreasonably long hours.

 

I know Bexy has also responded to this post and I agree with what Bexy posted, I would add, is the minimum wage really pittance ? or is it that it does not allow the lifestyle some think they have an automatic right to, this they feel includes their coke and Jaigerbombs on a Friday and Saturday night ?

 

As Bexy alludes to it must go much further up the ladder to get to the route of the problem and we the consumer must take 'responsibility' for the part that we play in it all due to what we are prepared to pay for our provisions, Farmers being paid £1 for a Sheep is madness when you think of how many different parts of the animal are sold, farmers having to send their cattle out to petting farms to avoid the food costs of raising the same, I know the old saying of you never see a poor farmer but is it just that, an old saying ?

 

My experience of 17-25 year olds are that they are above brushing the yard and most of what is asked is met with a tut and for many they are more aggro than they are worth which is why some employers turn to migrant workers who don't join the Monday club or have an appointment for this and an appointment for that on a working day every other week.

Will the next generation be any better ? not by what you see around at the minute but whose to say when the second generation of migrants is available for work they too will have not adopted the same 'attitude' ?

 

*Generalisation which may be unfair to some is evident in this post*

[bridge too far]

BTF can you not see why people in the industry do not feel that comfortable with this situation and why they might just find it offensive? They 'choose' not to eat meat because they do not agree with it and are not fit to represent or make the best decisions in the interests of the industry as a result.

 

The situation exposes Labour's contempt for the farming industry and the people in it.

 

What part of this "remember BTW that the brief covers ALL farming" are you finding difficult to understand?

[IamLeGod]

 

Or do you also think the DoH should have a nurse running it, Education a teacher, War a former soldier?

 

 

 

 

No, ofcourse not. Why have people with some experience or relevant knowledge of a given area. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Placing career politicians, who have worked their way up the political ladder and have come to expect a place in cabinet, or political rivals of the PM who are placed there to be kept quiet by CCR is a much better way of running things.

Edited 12 April, 2010 by IamLeGod

[Block 5]

I can see the BNP ( and UKIP ) making real headway in this election, with the possibility of quite a few seats.

 

What are peoples thoughts on this?

 

Also, where/when is a list of candidates announced? I assume that BNP won't bother standing in Romsey?

 

This thread seems to have gone way off topic.

 

Vegetarian ministers? Who gives a t0ss?

 

Back to the OP's question........

 

I find it sickening that anyone would consider voting for the BNP.

Millions of people gave their lives to put an end to fascism; we cannot forget them, we owe them a debt a gratitude.

It would break their hearts to see the rise of fascism, not just here, but all around Europe a mere 65 years after the end of WW2.

 

Did we learn nothing? How stupid are we if we open the door and allow these people to get a foothold in politics?

 

So people have a problem with immigration in Britain?

WTF??? How many people can prove their 'British' roots?

 

The last indigenous people of Britain disappeared at the end of the Neolithic age as the Bronze age began and Europeans came to these shores to mine for metals. They brought their knowledge, skills and culture with them.

This country has been evolving (for the better) thanks to immigration for about 5000 years.

 

 

Stu, I don't know if the BNP will field a candidate in Romsey. If they do, I hope large numbers of people will turn up to disrupt every meeting that he / she attends.

 

I shall be doing the same in my neck of the woods.

[IamLeGod]

This thread seems to have gone way off topic.

 

Vegetarian ministers? Who gives a t0ss?

 

Back to the OP's question........

 

I find it sickening that anyone would consider voting for the BNP.

Millions of people gave their lives to put an end to fascism; we cannot forget them, we owe them a debt a gratitude.

It would break their hearts to see the rise of fascism, not just here, but all around Europe a mere 65 years after the end of WW2.

 

Did we learn nothing? How stupid are we if we open the door and allow these people to get a foothold in politics?

 

So people have a problem with immigration in Britain?

WTF??? How many people can prove their 'British' roots?

 

The last indigenous people of Britain disappeared at the end of the Neolithic age as the Bronze age began and Europeans came to these shores to mine for metals. They brought their knowledge, skills and culture with them.

This country has been evolving (for the better) thanks to immigration for about 5000 years.

 

 

Stu, I don't know if the BNP will field a candidate in Romsey. If they do, I hope large numbers of people will turn up to disrupt every meeting that he / she attends.

 

I shall be doing the same in my neck of the woods.

 

:smt038 best post on this thread

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

The farming industry is very much interlinked, most farms (with the exception of the East) practise mixed farming. Does that answer your question.

 

Sadly your stand on this highlights the left's deep rooted hatred of farming and rural communities. That is why they spent 700 hours debating the irrelevant fox hunting (how many lives did that improve?) and just 7 on discussing the war on Iraq which will scar our relations in that part of the world for years and years. I expect you would stand by the disproportionate time spent on this?