Mawhinney's parting shot

[stockportsaint]

reported in several places, including:

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/paulkelso/100006898/mawhinney-urges-football-league-to-tackle-financial-reform-in-parting-shot/ - probably the most detailed

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/07/football-league-lord-mahwinney-debt and

 

http://www.teamtalk.com/championship/6080345/Mawhinney-concerned-by-FL-finances

 

I like this bit:

He also suggested a return to the systems of clubs sharing gate receipts to create a "morally more sustainable and therefore more attractive brand"

 

Have thought they should do this for years, but it really needs doing at top flight level as well, so everyone who plays Arsenal, Man U, etc, gets a decent whack of gate money, as currently happens in Cup ties.

 

Not so sure about this bit:

"Other suggestions by Mawhinney include making more use of the League's knowledge of what players are paid before new club contracts are enacted, and reflecting on whether the League needs to adopt a "Fit to Trade" framework in response to unsustainable debt, with relegation to a lower division rather than a points deduction."

 

would our debt last June have been "unsustainable" and put us into League 2? If so, then Pompey's would surely be sufficient for a double or triple relegation.

Edited 7 April, 2010 by stockportsaint
adding another link

[Matthew Le God]

A share of gate money is a stupid idea. Why would clubs bother increasing the capacity of stadia if they have to share it out? They'd struggle to make the money back.

[Give it to Ron]

A share of gate money is a stupid idea. Why would clubs bother increasing the capacity of stadia if they have to share it out? They'd struggle to make the money back.

 

It would have to be done with a wage cap...no way would that happen.

[Dr Octopus]

The blokes a tool.

[Stepgar]

The blokes a tool.

 

More like a sticky stool ;-)

[Weston Saint]

Some very good points in the letter. Personally I am against sharing gate receipts but agree with everything else in the letter.

 

I know we seemed to have issues with Mawhinney at the time of our Administration but he stuck to his guns and was within the league rules. He has been a plus to the FL during his tenure as Chairman. Let us hope the new Chairman can build on this and set the standards for football worldwide to follow and envy.

[John B]

Some very good points in the letter. Personally I am against sharing gate receipts but agree with everything else in the letter.

 

I know we seemed to have issues with Mawhinney at the time of our Administration but he stuck to his guns and was within the league rules. He has been a plus to the FL during his tenure as Chairman. Let us hope the new Chairman can build on this and set the standards for football worldwide to follow and envy.

 

Yes some good points but what is wrong sharing the gate receipts it used to work well and SFC could compete with the other clubs

[benjii]

Some very good points in the letter. Personally I am against sharing gate receipts but agree with everything else in the letter.

 

I know we seemed to have issues with Mawhinney at the time of our Administration but he stuck to his guns and was within the league rules. He has been a plus to the FL during his tenure as Chairman. Let us hope the new Chairman can build on this and set the standards for football worldwide to follow and envy.

 

The second paragraph is correct.

 

The only reason everyone seems to hate Mawhinney is because he looked cheery on Sky Sports News once.

[John B]

The second paragraph is correct.

 

The only reason everyone seems to hate Mawhinney is because he looked cheery on Sky Sports News once.

 

and he is a Tory

[Danny]

reported in several places, including:

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/paulkelso/100006898/mawhinney-urges-football-league-to-tackle-financial-reform-in-parting-shot/ - probably the most detailed

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/apr/07/football-league-lord-mahwinney-debt and

 

http://www.teamtalk.com/championship/6080345/Mawhinney-concerned-by-FL-finances

 

I like this bit:

 

 

Have thought they should do this for years, but it really needs doing at top flight level as well, so everyone who plays Arsenal, Man U, etc, gets a decent whack of gate money, as currently happens in Cup ties.

 

Not so sure about this bit:

 

 

would our debt last June have been "unsustainable" and put us into League 2? If so, then Pompey's would surely be sufficient for a double or triple relegation.

 

IIRC, gate receipts were split on a per-game basis rather than as a whole lump sum for the season, which would mean that teams with larger grounds would still get more money - just not so much more than the rest.

 

It worked for decades previous, so other than pure individualism on clubs' parts I don't see why it wouldn't work again - after all, it's not as if Football League clubs have to worry about competing with European rivals.

[stanthemanfairoak]

and he is a Tory

says it all:supz:

[Eddie Lizzard]

A share of gate money is a stupid idea. Why would clubs bother increasing the capacity of stadia if they have to share it out? They'd struggle to make the money back.

 

That's how it was in the old days when I started watching the Saints. It changed when the biggest clubs decided they would like to keep all of their gate money, which they then followed by setting up the Premier League which creamed off even more of the money for the top clubs.

[northam soul]

Yes some good points but what is wrong sharing the gate receipts it used to work well and SFC could compete with the other clubs

 

So lets say we are still in league one and getting avge gates of 22k when the majority of other clubs are only getting between 5-10k we would lose out big style.

The smaller clubs would all vote for this but the bigger clubs would not.

I realise it would create to some degree a more level playing field but can you seriously see bigger clubs saying ok you can have half of our 1million gate receipts and we will have half of your 100k receipts.

[Baird of the land]

All seems like moving deck chairs on the titanic for me. Until we get some sort of graduated wage cap all down the leagues were not going to go forward.

[solentstars]

Yes some good points but what is wrong sharing the gate receipts it used to work well and SFC could compete with the other clubs

 

i would love to go back to those days better than greed is good for the few.

[John B]

So lets say we are still in league one and getting avge gates of 22k when the majority of other clubs are only getting between 5-10k we would lose out big style.

The smaller clubs would all vote for this but the bigger clubs would not.

I realise it would create to some degree a more level playing field but can you seriously see bigger clubs saying ok you can have half of our 1million gate receipts and we will have half of your 100k receipts.

 

No I cannot but I dont sea why if Saints turned up at Man U they should not get half of the match receipts

 

The rich are only going to get richer if it had happened in the Premier League we would probably still been there

[Frank's cousin]

IIRC, gate receipts were split on a per-game basis rather than as a whole lump sum for the season, which would mean that teams with larger grounds would still get more money - just not so much more than the rest.

 

It worked for decades previous, so other than pure individualism on clubs' parts I don't see why it wouldn't work again - after all, it's not as if Football League clubs have to worry about competing with European rivals.

 

 

To be honest its more relevent in the lower leagues as in tehprem these dyas the gate is a far smaller overall percentage of tehir total rvenue anyway so would not be such a leveler - in CCC and downwards it could make a big difference to sides who regularly only get 5000-6000 at home v sides in the 20K + like us ;-)... where the gate is probably as much as 80% of total revenue.

[Capel Saint]

All seems like moving deck chairs on the titanic for me. Until we get some sort of graduated wage cap all down the leagues were not going to go forward.

 

Spot on. The only people getting rich from the Sky money, increased gate receipts etc are the players and their agents. English football as a whole needs to implement this sort of thing, to stop clubs spending beyond their means which only results in financial meltdown.

[Scummer]

If gate receipts were still shared, I don't think we'd have seen the investment in stadia over the past 20 years. It would double the time it took to pay back a new ground. Clubs would have just bolted seats to the terraces and left it at that.

[solentstars]

If gate receipts were still shared, I don't think we'd have seen the investment in stadia over the past 20 years. It would double the time it took to pay back a new ground. Clubs would have just bolted seats to the terraces and left it at that.

i think the tv money is more important reason why we have these new stadiums.

[Scummer]

i think the tv money is more important reason why we have these new stadiums.

 

You don't need a shiny new stadium in order to get TV money.

[martel]

The blokes a tool.

 

In the main I have to agree with you, however, apart from the gate sharing which has no chance of success; he does raise some good ideas that do need to be introduced, players wages being one of the biggest issues.

[Big Ron fan]

I'm pretty certain that in the old days the home team got 2/3 of the gate and the away team 1/3. It changed to 'home team takes all' in 1985, when it was quoted by Laurie as one of the main things causing him to leave Saints, as he didn't think we would be able to compete properly going forward. How right he was!

[holepuncture]

Gate sharing may provide a more level playing field financially, however i do not think it will be the solution to un-sustainability within the game. Owners such as ours can provide the 'financial gift' to once again strengthen competitive positioning.

 

The away team could perhaps keep their share of the gate, which is normally around 10-15% of the home teams ground capacity. For example, Saints take 2k fans to Swindon, and we retain the monies generated from the 2k away support... This could also stimulate away day initiatives by clubs themselves as there would be an increased financial incentive!

 

Agents should be FL/PFA employees, I cant stand the thought of an agent trying to lure, say, Adam Lallanna away to become a fringe player at another club for no obvious reason other than financial gain.

 

Saints ensure all (most) of its academy players are represented by the academy officials and the players parents, and good on them.

 

I cant see how our fine custodians Mr Cortese and Liebherr would have any problems with any of Mawhinneys suggestions, it almost read like Cortese himself composed the letter (in the Times blog)!

 

Ensuring directors and benefactors 'gift' money to there club over a loan would be a fantastic rule, and fortunately for us, it appears Herr Liebherr is already conducting himself in this manner. You only have to look at the Skates to see how directors loans can become a 'future threat'. In fact, the skates would have been executed immediately if all these potential rules were enforced on them this season (loans, tax-bank, agents etc).

 

It seems to be a universal acknowledgment that players wages need to be reduced, but it has to start from the top, the PL. The PL pay players big money, and can excuse it with claims that the players are the core product, which generate the revenues for the business, and should be rewarded accordingly. That is debatable, however football is a competitive sport, and teams in the league below (and below, and below, and below etc) will increase wage expenditure speculatively in a punt to achieve future prosperity through promotions, if it fails those contracts still have to be honored and the spiral begins!

 

The PL should be the benchmark, setting the standards as the global market leader, not League 2 (4)!

[Weston Saint]

Good balanced post holepuncher. I particularly like the idea of the away team keeping their share of the gate ie revenue from tickets they sell to their own supporters.

[John B]

Good balanced post holepuncher. I particularly like the idea of the away team keeping their share of the gate ie revenue from tickets they sell to their own supporters.

 

Yes that however would make the situation worse as the smaller clubs would lose out

[positivepete]

Gate revenue sharing and the proposal for limiting players wages to a percentage of the club's income are interesting bedfellows. I think that gate sharing in unlikely, an important part of the business case for various ground expansion projects was that home teams keep the revenues.