Election 2010

[IamLeGod]

What do people on here think of Cameron?

 

 

Is he a fast talking opportunist or has he got something

 

 

He could be the Prime Minister is a month or so which frightens me

 

Blair MK II.

 

Damning show of what politics is coming to. Style over substance. Worries me that he has a good chance of being PM soon, though as I said previously can we really stand another 5 years of Brown?

 

Used to think I would side with the Tories but recently have changed my mind massively! What to do, what to do

[John B]

Blair MK II.

 

Damning show of what politics is coming to. Style over substance. Worries me that he has a good chance of being PM soon, though as I said previously can we really stand another 5 years of Brown?

 

Used to think I would side with the Tories but recently have changed my mind massively! What to do, what to do

 

I think he would like to think of himself as Blair 2 but Blair was a pretty strong and forceful leader .

 

 

Dont think Brown will be with us for five years I feel that he will get the economy right and then go

 

Labour do seem to have got us through the recession pretty well despite our over dependence on the Financial Sector

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8606499.stm

[Johnny Bognor]

I found Ken Clarke to be a great laugh. Witty, clever and doesn't take himself too seriously.

 

Pity he's a tory.

 

I so wish Dave would drop Osbourne and have Ken Clarke as Chancellor. He has credibility, being the most successful chancellor in modern times, even Fraudon himself copied Ken's spending plans for the first two years of his reign.

[Sheaf Saint]

Labour do seem to have got us through the recession pretty well despite our over dependence on the Financial Sector

 

Please tell me you are being sarcastic. Please.

[John B]

Please tell me you are being sarcastic. Please.

 

No quite serious.

 

 

Things seem to be going better than I thought when in October 2008 the whole banking sector could have failed and a depression was forecast with really large numbers unemployed

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8598689.stm

Edited 7 April, 2010 by John B

[bridge too far]

Please tell me you are being sarcastic. Please.

 

Did you actually bother to read the link he provided?

[IamLeGod]

No quite serious.

 

 

Things seem to be going better than I thought when in October 2008 the whole banking sector could have failed and a depression was forecast with really large numbers unemployed

 

Personally, Im not quite as convinced. Hailed (mostly by himself) as overseeing the 'econoic miracle' during a period of global economic prosperity. Then as soon as things went bad it was nothing to do with him? He then claimed his policies to deal with the downturn had positioned us better than anyone to move out of recession faster than any country, which as we know simply isnt true.

 

His dealing of the economy has summarised his Premiership, confused, slow, bumbling,clumsy and ineffective

[John B]

Personally, Im not quite as convinced. Hailed (mostly by himself) as overseeing the 'econoic miracle' during a period of global economic prosperity. Then as soon as things went bad it was nothing to do with him? He then claimed his policies to deal with the downturn had positioned us better than anyone to move out of recession faster than any country, which as we know simply isnt true.

 

His dealing of the economy has summarised his Premiership, confused, slow, bumbling,clumsy and ineffective

 

I think you maybe listening to the simplistic PR being peddled by the Tory Press.

 

The credit crunch was a global phenomen caused mostly in the US where banks were lending money they did not have and the UK and USA were the leading countries resolving the crisis I am glad Brown and Darling were in charge

 

and things look better now because of their action

 

 

Our Public Services are now significantly better than in past years have you seen all the new facilities at the General and RS Hants Hospitals

[Johnny Bognor]

I think you maybe listening to the simplistic PR being peddled by the Tory Press.

 

The credit crunch was a global phenomen caused mostly in the US where banks were lending money they did not have and the UK and USA were the leading countries resolving the crisis I am glad Brown and Darling were in charge

 

His famous bailout of Northern Rock had more to do with the failure of the then Chancellor who turned a blind eye to the reckless activity of a bank who were offering 125% mortgages and earning mulptiples of 8x income. Lloyds TSB got into trouble after being persuaded (by him) to absorb HBOS (another reckless lender who conducted commercial suicide on Fraudon's watch). Therefore the bailouts had as much to do with Fraudon's failure as a Chancellor, as much as they are down to Global conditions. If you recall, both HSBC and Barclays faired OK. The strategy of blaming global conditions to cover up his own shortcomings seems to be working.

 

After "saving the world" and promising "no more boom and bust", his latest mantra is that the tories would be "taking £6 Billion out of the economy" by reducing employers NI. This is a complete LIE - What gets my goat is that he really believes that 'we' have fallen for HIS bull****.... and some of 'us' clearly have. Apart from the fact that not a single FTSE chairman agrees with his "tax on jobs", reducing Employers NI will NOT take money out of the economy - it will be used by companies to strengthen balance sheets, invest in new equipment, and (god forbid) be used to employ more people. If anything, reducing employers NI actually LEAVES £6 Billion in the wealth creating economy, rather than being wasted in the over-bloated Public Sector.

 

The fact that just the interest payments on the debt HE has acrued is £42 Billion per annum (more than the annual defence budget) means that HIS recklessness IS taking £42 Billion OUT of our economy each year for many years to come.

 

The guy was a fraud, is a fraud and always will be a fraud and anyone who can't see this really should question whether or not they should really be allowed to have control over a pencil in the voting booth.

Edited 7 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[View From The Top]

His famous bailout of Northern Rock had more to do with the failure of the then Chancellor who turned a blind eye to the reckless activity of a bank who were offering 125% mortgages and earning mulptiples of 8x income.

 

Behave yourself Johnny.

 

Northern Rock was a private company and the government had no place interfering with its business model.

 

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that government does intervene and demand business changes its way when the government doesn't like the way it's run?

 

Never had your down as a socialist big government, big brother type.

[John B]

His famous bailout of Northern Rock had more to do with the failure of the then Chancellor who turned a blind eye to the reckless activity of a bank who were offering 125% mortgages and earning mulptiples of 8x income.

 

Lloyds TSB got into trouble after being persuaded (by him) to absorb HBOS (another reckless lender who conducted commercial suicide on Fraudon's watch).

 

Therefore the bailouts had as much to do with Fraudon's failure as a Chancellor, as much as they are down to Global conditions. If you recall, both HSBC and Barclays faired OK.

 

The strategy of blaming global conditions to cover up his own shortcomings seems to be working.

 

I agree that some of the lending was reckless but surely it is the responsibility of the bank to supervise and manage its dealings and not the responsibility of the government.

 

 

But of course the FSA should have had a better hold on the situation.

[Sheaf Saint]

Personally, Im not quite as convinced. Hailed (mostly by himself) as overseeing the 'econoic miracle' during a period of global economic prosperity. Then as soon as things went bad it was nothing to do with him? He then claimed his policies to deal with the downturn had positioned us better than anyone to move out of recession faster than any country, which as we know simply isnt true.

 

His dealing of the economy has summarised his Premiership, confused, slow, bumbling,clumsy and ineffective

 

Exactly. Back in 2004 Vince Cable raised the concern in parliament that the UK housing bubble combined with irresponsible lending and unregulated banks would ultimately lead to financial disaster. Brown (then Chancellor) dismissed his concerns as alarmist nonsense.

 

When the recession bit, Brown claimed that we were 'uniquely well placed to ride out the economic storm' which everybody else except him could see was not true. His positive boast about the whole situation is that he came up with the idea to bail out the banks on the condition that they start lending again, which was then adopted by all of the major governments that had been affected by the financial crisis, but it didn't exactly take a genius to come up with that and it is certain that other governments would have come up with the same idea if he had not done so first.

 

Labour are supposed to be a socialist party (I know they're not exactly but you know what I mean), yet his big idea when everybody started losing their jobs and having their homes repossessed was to give £billions of public money to the banks that caused the crisis in the first place, who then reneged on the agreement to start lending again and continued paying massive bonuses to the greedy ******s that put entire banking system in jeopardy due to their reckless speculation and irresponsible lending.

 

for that reason, I cannot bring myself to vote for them. Gordon Brown loves to take the credit when things go well and is quick to pass the blame when things aren't so good. His blatant evasion of Nick Robinson's questioning about the NI increase on BBC today was cringe-worthy - almost as bad as the now famous Paxman interview with Michael Howard. He is a lame duck PM with about as much charisma as an anal wart and the UK is emerging from recession despite him, not because of him.

[IamLeGod]

I think you maybe listening to the simplistic PR being peddled by the Tory Press.

 

The credit crunch was a global phenomen caused mostly in the US where banks were lending money they did not have and the UK and USA were the leading countries resolving the crisis I am glad Brown and Darling were in charge

 

and things look better now because of their action

 

 

Our Public Services are now significantly better than in past years have you seen all the new facilities at the General and RS Hants Hospitals

 

Don't insult my intelligence. Im capable of forming my own opinion thank you very much. Put your arrogance away.

 

Not really sure how much better things look. a 0.01% growth is hardly brilliant. Ive already explained im not mad keen on cameron. Im not convinced he would have done any better.

[John B]

His famous bailout of Northern Rock had more to do with the failure of the then Chancellor who turned a blind eye to the reckless activity of a bank who were offering 125% mortgages and earning mulptiples of 8x income.

 

Lloyds TSB got into trouble after being persuaded (by him) to absorb HBOS (another reckless lender who conducted commercial suicide on Fraudon's watch).

 

Therefore the bailouts had as much to do with Fraudon's failure as a Chancellor, as much as they are down to Global conditions. If you recall, both HSBC and Barclays faired OK.

 

The strategy of blaming global conditions to cover up his own shortcomings seems to be working.

 

 

After saving the world and promising no more boom and bust, his latest mantra is that the tories would be taking 6 Billion out of the economy by reducing employers NI. This is his biggest LIE of all.

 

First of all, not a single FTSE chairman agrees with his "tax on jobs".

 

Reducing Employers NI will NOT take money out of the economy - it will be used by companies to strengthen balance sheets, invest in new equipment, employ more people, pay out in dividends (which would be taxed) etc. If anything, reducing employers NI actually LEAVES 6 Billion in the economy.

 

What gets my goat is that he really believes that 'we' have fallen for this bull****.... and some of 'us' clearly have.

 

The guy was a fraud, is a fraud and always will be a fraud.

 

The NI is an interesting political point which the Tories appear to be currently winning.

 

 

The bosses of course do not want to pay more in taxes which reduce their profits they would prefer job cuts in the public sector and reduced services.

 

 

 

There appears to be a choice the Tories want to reduce the defict by reducing services by cost cutting with public workers affected and Labour wants to reduce the defict by raising taxes.

 

 

It is quite possible to raise £6billion with the increase in NI but not so certain to raise £6billion in public sector cuts without putting the recovery at risk which is being led by the Public Sector.

 

 

It is only a political ploy really a good one never the less.

[Johnny Bognor]

Behave yourself Johnny.

 

Northern Rock was a private company and the government had no place interfering with its business model.

 

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that government does intervene and demand business changes its way when the government doesn't like the way it's run?

 

Never had your down as a socialist big government, big brother type.

 

 

They were regulated (apparently) by the FSA (AKA Financial Suicide Authority) which funnily enough was set up by good old Fraudon. Just for your info, their remit can be found here:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/Aims/index.shtml

 

They failed and by proxy, so did he.

 

But why would he intervene, he was borrowing and spending like the rest of 'us', the only difference being is that is was Chancellor of the bleeding Exchequor.

[John B]

They were regulated (apparently) by the FSA (AKA Financial Suicide Authority) which funnily enough was set up by good old Fraudon. Just for your info, their remit can be found here:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/Aims/index.shtml

 

They failed and by proxy, so did he.

 

But why would he intervene, he was borrowing and spending like the rest of 'us', the only difference being is that is was Chancellor of the bleeding Exchequor.

 

And as Vince Cable says it is all the fault of the Tories who deregulated the Financil Sector in the 1980s

[View From The Top]

They were regulated (apparently) by the FSA (AKA Financial Suicide Authority) which funnily enough was set up by good old Fraudon. Just for your info, their remit can be found here:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/Pages/About/Aims/index.shtml

 

They failed and by proxy, so did he.

 

But why would he intervene, he was borrowing and spending like the rest of 'us', the only difference being is that is was Chancellor of the bleeding Exchequor.

 

So he shouldn't have intervened then? That's fine, so why are you mithering then?

 

I'm shocked at your interventionist, socialist bent.

[Johnny Bognor]

The NI is an interesting political point which the Tories appear to be currently winning.

 

The bosses of course do not want to pay more in taxes which reduce their profits they would prefer job cuts in the public sector and reduced services.

 

 

Those profits will be taxed and spent one way or another, thus flowing through the economy.

 

Fraudon's insinuation is that this £6bn will magically disappear into thin air

 

 

There appears to be a choice the Tories want to reduce the defict by reducing services by cost cutting with public workers affected and Labour wants to reduce the defict by raising taxes.

 

The reason why we are in the mess we are (over £900,000,000,000 in debt) is that we are spending too much on the public sector. The simple fact of the matter is that the level of spending is unsustainable.

 

Unfortunately the Public Sector does not create wealth. It merely recycles the wealth generated in the private sector.

 

If you want the economy to grow, you support the private sector.

 

It is quite possible to raise £6billion with the increase in NI but not so certain to raise £6billion in public sector cuts without putting the recovery at risk which is being led by the Public Sector.

 

It is only a political ploy really a good one never the less.

 

I am sure that there is at least £6bn that could be found in efficiency savings.

 

As it happens, the recovery will come from the wealth creating private sector and as such supporting this part of the economy is common sense.

 

I think Fraudon blew his credibility along time ago, the fact that there are still enough people around to fall for his out and out lies means that he has been able to cause as much damage as he has.

[Johnny Bognor]

So he shouldn't have intervened then? That's fine, so why are you mithering then?

 

I'm shocked at your interventionist, socialist bent.

 

I have no problem with companies creating wealth and generating profits. I do have a problem with companies like the NR who were reckless and what they were doing was tantamount to fraud and/or gambling. In these instances, I expect the regulators to regulate. Fraudon's gang failed to do this.

 

BTW, did you fall for his "no more boom and bust" line?

[John B]

Those profits will be taxed and spent one way or another, thus flowing through the economy.

 

Fraudon's insinuation is that this £6bn will magically disappear into thin air

 

 

 

 

The reason why we are in the mess we are (over £900,000,000,000 in debt) is that we are spending too much on the public sector. The simple fact of the matter is that the level of spending is unsustainable.

 

Unfortunately the Public Sector does not create wealth. It merely recycles the wealth generated in the private sector.

 

If you want the economy to grow, you support the private sector.

 

 

 

I am sure that there is at least £6bn that could be found in efficiency savings.

 

As it happens, the recovery will come from the wealth creating private sector and as such supporting this part of the economy is common sense.

 

I think Fraudon blew his credibility along time ago, the fact that there are still enough people around to fall for his out and out lies means that he has been able to cause as much damage as he has.

 

I think Gordon Brown knows more about the economy than you but I do agree that the Public Sector does help the Private Sector to grow by taking goods and services from the Private Sector.

 

 

Cutting Public Spending to the tune of £6 billion will affect the Private Sector.

 

 

I dont really understand what damage he has done compared with the Tories in the past who not only decimated manufacturing industry in the 1980s but led us to Black Wednesday Thurday and Friday in 1992 when interest rates were at 15 %

 

The Recession was caused by greedy bankers and their large bonuses perhaps the whole banking system should be nationlised

Edited 7 April, 2010 by John B

[View From The Top]

BTW, did you fall for his "no more boom and bust" line?

 

I treat everything any politicans says with the contempt it deserves.

 

What was your favourite line comrade? I'm betting it's from Das Kapital.

[Johnny Bognor]

I dont really understand what damage he has done compared with the Tories in the past

 

Try a national debt of £900,000,000,000, the greatest since WW2 (where we needed to spend a few quid to keep our freedom). The annual interest on the debt is £42,000,000,000.

 

We will be paying this back for generations to come.

 

Out of interest, are you the sort of person that ignores their credit card statement in the hope that the debt will go away?

 

 

who not only decimated manufacturing industry in the 1980s

 

Here we go again. I have dealt with this time and time again.

 

Manufacturing as a share of GDP fell LESS in the 1980's than it did in the 1970's and fell LESS as a share of GDP than it did in the 1990's and 2000's.

 

The west has been de-industrialising since the early 1970's and Germany, France and the US (western economies) have seen falls in their manufacturing base.

[Johnny Bognor]

I treat everything any politicans says with the contempt it deserves.

 

What was your favourite line comrade? I'm betting it's from Das Kapital.

 

Yeah, right. My favourite Marx quote is "I am not a Marxist."

 

 

My 3rd favourite Fraudon line is......

 

"I did maths for a year at university. I don't think I was very good at it. And some people would say it shows."

Gordon Brown

April 2007

Edited 7 April, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[bridge too far]

Yeah, right.

 

My favourite line is:

 

"I did maths for a year at university. I don't think I was very good at it. And some people would say it shows."

Gordon Brown

April 2007

 

Perhaps he realised that his PhD in History would be more relevant so that he could learn from the mistakes of the past.

[Johnny Bognor]

Perhaps he realised that his PhD in History would be more relevant so that he could learn from the mistakes of the past.

 

Had he been minister for tourism, he may have been more qualified for the job.

[John B]

Yeah, right. My favourite Marx quote is "I am not a Marxist."

 

 

My 3rd favourite Fraudon line is......

 

"I did maths for a year at university. I don't think I was very good at it. And some people would say it shows."

Gordon Brown

April 2007

 

I did Maths at University too got a degree but like Gordon I was not very good at the end

 

By the way what did Cameron do at University beside joining some infamous gang of Public Schoolboy types like Rupert Lowe

Edited 7 April, 2010 by John B

[Johnny Bognor]

I did Maths at University too got a degree but like Gordon I was not very good at the end

 

Ooops, perhaps I should have posted "£900 bn" instead of trying to spell it out with "£900,000,000,000". As my flirtation with maths ended at A-level, I shouldn't have been so patronising.

 

By the way what did Cameron do at University beside joining some infamous gang of Public Schoolboy types like Rupert Lowe

 

I believe he got a 1st class honours in Philosophy, politics and economics which is probably more relevant if you are looking to run the country. Those with doctorates in history should stick to teaching, lecturing or working in museums.

 

As it happens, I am not that fussed on "Blair the Sequel". This new breed of P®olitician is not for me.

[John B]

Ooops, perhaps I should have posted "£900 bn" instead of trying to spell it out with "£900,000,000,000". As my flirtation with maths ended at A-level, I shouldn't have been so patronising.

 

 

 

I believe he got a 1st class honours in Philosophy, politics and economics which is probably more relevant if you are looking to run the country. Those with doctorates in history should stick to teaching, lecturing or working in museums.

 

As it happens, I am not that fussed on "Blair the Sequel". This new breed of P®olitician is not for me.

 

Well that is a surprise as he appears to have little real understanding of Economics as if had been in Government in 2008 when the Credit Crunch was at its height his interventions would have led the country to probable ruin.

 

 

Just let Alistair and Gordon continue their good work because I have little confidence in Boy George and David leading us to prosperity.

 

They maybe fairly good at playing politics but their strategy seems to be saying anything which could be popular with the electorate with little real substance behind it

[dune]

I so wish Dave would drop Osbourne and have Ken Clarke as Chancellor. He has credibility, being the most successful chancellor in modern times, even Fraudon himself copied Ken's spending plans for the first two years of his reign.

 

I cringe when George osborne appears on the TV. He's such a smarmy little git he could well cost the Tories the election if he gets too much publicity.

[bungle]

http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/06/the-approval-rating-gap-gets-wider/

 

Approval ratings of all three leaders. Something to follow during the campaign. This one is YouGov for the Sunday Times. Just within the start of the campaign Clegg is up 11 points to +31 approval rating, and he has more positive ratings than Cameron.

[View From The Top]

As it happens, I am not that fussed on "Blair the Sequel". This new breed of P®olitician is not for me.

 

Amen to that comrade.

[John B]

http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/06/the-approval-rating-gap-gets-wider/

 

Approval ratings of all three leaders. Something to follow during the campaign. This one is YouGov for the Sunday Times. Just within the start of the campaign Clegg is up 11 points to +31 approval rating, and he has more positive ratings than Cameron.

 

I think he is OK but not sure the Country wants a Prime Minister called Cleggy

[Sheaf Saint]

Well that is a surprise as he appears to have little real understanding of Economics as if had been in Government in 2008 when the Credit Crunch was at its height his interventions would have led the country to probable ruin.

 

 

Just let Alistair and Gordon continue their good work because I have little confidence in Boy George and David leading us to prosperity.

 

They maybe fairly good at playing politics but their strategy seems to be saying anything which could be popular with the electorate with little real substance behind it

 

It is thanks to Brown's enormous borrowing and wasted public spending, and over-reliance on the banking industry (if you can call it that), that this country now finds itself in such a desperate level of debt that will take decades to get out of.

 

So I'm curious - what is it about their management of the economy over the last few years do you consider to be successful? Serious question.

[IamLeGod]

It is thanks to Brown's enormous borrowing and wasted public spending, and over-reliance on the banking industry (if you can call it that), that this country now finds itself in such a desperate level of debt that will take decades to get out of.

 

So I'm curious - what is it about their management of the economy over the last few years do you consider to be successful? Serious question.

 

Sounds like he is one straight out of Brown's book. The left seem to hold their values very dearly, which whilst this is admirable, makes them very aggressive towards any view point that is not their own. Unwilling to agree on differences and simply attack them.

 

Brown is a tribalistic, nasty piece of work, who in desparation attacks oppositions background (like someone else on here?). Oh Mr. Cameron how can you run the country? You cannot be fit because you went to the best school and university in the country, doing one of the hardest courses and got a first! Obviously you are a poor candidate to run the country.

 

I on the other hand am a much better candidate. I cannot spell the name of an injured soldier in a handwritten letter that i write in scrawl with a marker pen and in my handling of the recession broke every single one of the 'golden rules of economics' i made up during my time as chancellor, overseeing the 'economic miracle'. Nevermind if this was, in hindsight, a false inflated period of boom, which I exacerbated for political points.

[View From The Top]

Sounds like he is one straight out of Brown's book. The left seem to hold their values very dearly, which whilst this is admirable, makes them very aggressive towards any view point that is not their own. Unwilling to agree on differences and simply attack them.

 

Brown is a tribalistic, nasty piece of work, who in desparation attacks oppositions background (like someone else on here?). Oh Mr. Cameron how can you run the country? You cannot be fit because you went to the best school and university in the country, doing one of the hardest courses and got a first! Obviously you are a poor candidate to run the country.

 

I on the other hand am a much better candidate. I cannot spell the name of an injured soldier in a handwritten letter that i write in scrawl with a marker pen and in my handling of the recession broke every single one of the 'golden rules of economics' i made up during my time as chancellor, overseeing the 'economic miracle'. Nevermind if this was, in hindsight, a false inflated period of boom, which I exacerbated for political points.

 

It's Camerons "One is an ordinary chap" routine that many don't buy into.

 

When he was on R4 saying how he sits around the kitchen table working out how to pay the monthly bills I nearly spat my tea out. Yeah, really hard Dave when your wife is worth £30million.

 

Brown is an arse and he's the main reason I'll be deserting Labour for the 1st time ever but Cameron is a vacuous, lightweight, PR savvy, career politician chancer.

[saintfully]

It is thanks to Brown's enormous borrowing and wasted public spending, and over-reliance on the banking industry (if you can call it that), that this country now finds itself in such a desperate level of debt that will take decades to get out of.

 

So I'm curious - what is it about their management of the economy over the last few years do you consider to be successful? Serious question.

 

I'm no cheerleader for Labour, but it has to be accepted that interest rates and inflation (if we conveniently ignore house prices) have (so far) been kept under control by Brown et al.

 

More importantly, the responses of Cameron and Osbourne to the financial crisis include a) not nationalising Northern Rock, but selling it on the cheap to private investors, and b) rejecting fiscal stimulus in favour of 'active monetarist intervention by the Bank of England'.ie lower interest rates - what, lower than 0.5% - or cut taxes? This means basically they would have done nothing but cut public spending. The result of this would have been massive unemployment, house repossessions, business failure. 1982 anyone? At least Labour intervened and used the govt. to actually help people rather than simply re-start the economy by slash and burn.

 

Like I say, I'm no Labour fan (10p tax-rate, Iraq, Blair, failure to change voting system means I can't support them), but on economic issues they are streets ahead of Cameron. I can't forget what the 80's was actually like - remember just how many homeless there were for a start. Parts of London/Cambridge/Brighton (the places I know/knew) were like refugee camps compared to today.

 

Thats what I think - serious answer.

[IamLeGod]

It's Camerons "One is an ordinary chap" routine that many don't buy into.

 

When he was on R4 saying how he sits around the kitchen table working out how to pay the monthly bills I nearly spat my tea out. Yeah, really hard Dave when your wife is worth £30million.

 

Brown is an arse and he's the main reason I'll be deserting Labour for the 1st time ever but Cameron is a vacuous, lightweight, PR savvy, career politician chancer.

 

Can't say I disagree with any of that. I'm not espousing the virtues of cameron in the slightest. if you look back at this thread, i have on several occasions expressed my doubts in cameron. as i said before he is suimply blair mk II.

 

 

Taking 'smoke and mirrors' politics as i like to call it to a whole new level. blair (one of the most skilled politicians in years) has changed the face of the game completely, the pair are very good at playing the game. but as blair demonstrated, style over substance rarely works and tends to gain a fascination with short term pr victories. i hold little hope for anything different should cameron come into no. 10.

[hutch]

It's much more interesting looking at these things from the outside.

 

I thought Boulton had GB on the ropes on Sky yesterday. It looked to me like Gordon was in "I'll keep repeating what Mandy told me to say" mode.

 

What has actually struck me most was, at the same time the Tories pledged to cancel the planned NI increases, IIRC at the same time they also said they would cancel the proposed tax on phone lines.

 

Why does nobody think it's insane that the Government wants to tax phone lines? If it moves, tax it. And if it doesn't, slap a tax on it anyway. I'm not saying that the broadband network might not need investment, but does your car tax and fuel tax all go on investment in the road network?

 

The Government should concentrate on governing the country.

[dune]

I'm no cheerleader for Labour, but it has to be accepted that interest rates and inflation (if we conveniently ignore house prices) have (so far) been kept under control by Brown et al.

 

Great news for us savers....:mad:

 

I want them back up to 5.5% asap.

[saintfully]

Great news for us savers....:mad:

 

I want them back up to 5.5% asap.

 

 

With inflation at 7% or higher?

 

Anyway, if you want good interest rates try lending through Zopa - it screws the banks and you can get about 10% if youre willing to take a little risk.

 

HTH.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It's much more interesting looking at these things from the outside.

 

I thought Boulton had GB on the ropes on Sky yesterday. It looked to me like Gordon was in "I'll keep repeating what Mandy told me to say" mode.

 

What has actually struck me most was, at the same time the Tories pledged to cancel the planned NI increases, IIRC at the same time they also said they would cancel the proposed tax on phone lines.

 

Why does nobody think it's insane that the Government wants to tax phone lines? If it moves, tax it. And if it doesn't, slap a tax on it anyway. I'm not saying that the broadband network might not need investment, but does your car tax and fuel tax all go on investment in the road network?

 

The Government should concentrate on governing the country.

 

That's what Labour Govt's do, put tax up.

 

They seem incapable of understanding that it's tax take that matters. The last Labour Govt taxed people at 33%, yet when Thatcher reduced the basic rate, the revenue from income tax increased. If you follow Brown's flawed logic, Thatcher would have been taking X amount of billions out of the economy.

 

Take the NI increase.Business has said it will affect job creation, the Lib/Dems have said it is wrong, but wont change it yet,and even Darling has said it will cost jobs, but they are "managable". Those jobs will go to people who will have to pay income tax, if those jobs dont exist, then the income tax from those jobs wont exist.The people filling those jobs will remain on benefits, who pays for the benefits?

 

Labour Govts seem to think that taxing people more, is the answer to everything.

[View From The Top]

 

Labour Govts seem to think that taxing people more, is the answer to everything.

 

Where as the tories think crippling interest rates, home repossessions, mass unemployment & services slashed are the way forward.

 

Still, as long as your happy.

[trousers]

Remind me. How may more days of people posting different opinions are there to go?