Election 2010

[dune]

I'm surprised there's not been a thread started already to mark Brown calling an election for the 6th of May.

 

Yesterday was an interesting day with Brown wanting to portray himself as a team player because Mandelson has evidently advised him that nobody likes him (lol) and David Cameron engaging with the press and the public on a one to one basis because many of his cabinet colleagues aren't good for PR - i notice how Osbourne has been dropped as a face already. Meanwhile the Liberals leader (his name once again escapes me) had rolled out Vince Cable as the man he wants to be seen with and i think they'll do quite in terms of popularity but don't envisage this translating to votes in the marginals where the choice is do you want another 5 years of Brown or not.

 

Based on the first day i'd put Camerons campaign as the best - he's comfortable talking to people and the press, likewise the Liberals come accross well and engage well with the media and the public, but poor old Gordon Brown - he's really not a peoples person. The way he ignored every question from the media was a massive own goal and the more he continues with this isolated and remote approach the more the general public will see him as a loner and not fit to govern.

 

I can see the gap widening between the Tories and Labour over the coming weeks the more people see of Brown. poor old mandys got his work cut out in spinning Brown as something he clearly isn't.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

There will be no winners whoever wins.

 

Politicians see this as there career and do not enter politics out of a sense of passion or duty. I think all politicians should have to have worked in the real world for fifteen years before being eligible.

[Hatch]

Can we have a weekly poll on here to judge voting swings.

 

It would put MORI to shame.

[Sheaf Saint]

Well it's certainly going to be interesting watching all the main players bigging themselves up and slagging off their rivals over the coming weeks. I haven't been able to watch any of the campaigning so far but I get theh general idea from snippets I have heard on the radio etc...

 

I don't think I could ever bring myself to vote for David "Call me Dave" Cameron, no matter how well he presents himself over the election campaign. when he first took the Tory leadership I thought for a shorty while that he might actually be different, but it didn't take him long to descend into petty point-scoring and sniping at the government.

 

Gordon Brown lost all credibility for me when he claimed that Britain was uniquely well-placed to ride out the economic storm over the last 18 months when it was quite obvious to anybody with even the slightest knowledge of financial markets that the opposite was in fact true.

 

Which really only leaves the Lib-dems as a credible alternative and on the face of it I can't see how they could make a worse job of running the country than the current lot.. I'm tempted to vote for them on the basis that Vince Cable, who seems to be the only person involved in politics who understands the global financial crisis and actually has some ideas on how to resolve it, would become Chancellor if they won.

[bungle]

Can we have a weekly poll on here to judge voting swings.

 

It would put MORI to shame.

 

Presumably not up there with ICM and YouGov?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I did cringe though dune at Cameron when I heard him talking about cheap cider and he used the word 'smashed' when describing how someone would be after drinking a bottle of white lightning.

[dune]

I did cringe though dune at Cameron when I heard him talking about cheap cider and he used the word 'smashed' when describing how someone would be after drinking a bottle of white lightning.

 

I cringed when Browns cronies talked about giving us a referendum on constitutional reform. This is the same party that promised us a vote on the European Constitution yet renaged on their promise when they realised they wouldn't get the result they wanted.

[jeff leopard]

poor old Gordon Brown - he's really not a peoples person.

 

Whichever way you look at it, he's a liability to Labour, a miserable drunken thug. But if we're to believe the opinion polls, the fact the Tories aren't way ahead is a damning indictment of David Cameron (a man with all the gravitas of a regional news weatherman). I’ve been Lib Dem for years now but I’m not happy about the fact Nick Clegg presents himself as a pale imitation of Cameron, and that the party doesn’t appear to be moving forward under his leadership.

 

I’m still praying for a hung parliament as…

 

Keeping labour in power would be seen as validating what they’ve done since 1997, a lot of which has been hilariously inept.

As bad as Brown gets, he’s still going to be infinitely better than Cameron as PM, imagine that wet rag representing this country, terrifying isn’t it?

As weak as the Lib Dems are, as poor as Labour have been, there is no way, absolutely no way, that I will ever vote Tory. That's Thatcher's legacy, right there.

As bad as a hung pariliment will be, I’ve no doubt it will be infinitely better than any one party getting in. Most European countries have had nothing but hung parliaments and they manage very nicely.

[dune]

Can we have a weekly poll on here to judge voting swings.

 

It would put MORI to shame.

 

Just to clarify the situation the Conservatives need to achieve a swing of around 7 per cent if they're to govern on their own - requiring a lead of something like 40 to 29 per cent over Labour.

 

The most recent poll conducted (before Brown makes himself look a tit on the election trail and before he becomes even more unpopular on the TV debates) show:

 

YouGov/Sun (5th Apr-6th Apr) CON 40%(-1), LAB 32%(+1), LDEM 17%(-1)

 

Based on this it's on a knife edge and Tories may just sneak home with an overall majority.

[Baj]

Have stickied this thread and also started a voting one, which ill renew every week.

Thanks for the suggestions dune and hatch

[dune]

As bad as Brown gets, he’s still going to be infinitely better than Cameron as PM, imagine that wet rag representing this country, terrifying isn’t it?

 

I don't underatnd how anyone can consider Cameron would be a worse representative of this country internationally than Brown. The way Brown tried to be seen with Barrack Obama recently (and it was clear Obabma didn't want to be seen with Brown) is a testament to what a weak and embarrassing leader he is on the world stage. Likewise Brown was pictured the other day with Angela Merkel and frankly it was cringeworthy seeing him grinning like a Cheshire cat next to a woman who was clearly more authoritative than him. We're a G8 nation and as such we have clout and a British leader should be able to ooze authority. Obama does it, merkel does it, Sarkozy does it, FFS even Berlosconi does it! On the international stage Brown is as effectual as he is when engainging with people in general - he's simple unable to interact - he's a loner. On the other hand Cameron holds himself better and you just know he'd be able to interact with the likes of Obama and Merkel as an equal and that they would take him seriously. Labour have once again tried to make the camapaign a class war, but to me having a PM that has had a good eductaion isn't a bad thing.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I don't underatnd how anyone can consider Cameron would be a worse representative of this country internationally than Brown. The way Brown tried to be seen with Barrack Obama recently (and it was clear Obabma didn't want to be seen with Brown) is a testament to what a weak and embarrassing leader he is on the world stage. Likewise Brown was pictured the other day with Angela Merkel and frankly it was cringeworthy seeing him grinning like a Cheshire cat next to a woman who was clearly more authoritative than him. We're a G8 nation and as such we have clout and a British leader should be able to ooze authority. Obama does it, merkel does it, Sarkozy does it, FFS even Berlosconi does it! On the international stage Brown is as effectual as he is when engainging with people in general - he's simple unable to interact - he's a loner. On the other hand Cameron holds himself better and you just know he'd be able to interact with the likes of Obama and Merkel as an equal and that they would take him seriously. Labour have once again tried to make the camapaign a class war, but to me having a PM that has had a good eductaion isn't a bad thing.

 

What's more important to you? money or people?

[dune]

What's more important to you? money or people?

 

Just make your point. I know you're a rampant leftie so get it off your chest.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Very cliched question that Andy. It implies that how you vote is a gauge for how you are as a person. That is utter tosh as the expenses scandal has highlighted.

 

Brown would get more votes if he behave like Berluconi;

 

[Baj]

Just worth pointing out at this stage that politics threads can swiftly decend into throwing insults.

 

Any abuse on this thread will be given an infraction

[dune]

Very cliched question that Andy. It implies that how you vote is a gauge for how you are as a person. That is utter tosh as the expenses scandal has highlighted.

 

Brown would get more votes if he behave like Berluconi;

 

 

ha ha ha, Brelosconi can get away with stuff like that because he's got a personality and it's not fake, Brown on the other hand has zero personality and any expression of fun or joviality would just come accross as being fake - a bit like "the smile".

[bridge too far]

I'm not looking for 'personality' - I'm looking for gravitas.

 

However, those who have met Gordon Brown say he is charming and funny.

 

He just doesn't do media very well.

[bridge too far]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8606499.stm

[dune]

those who have met Gordon Brown say he is charming and funny.

 

Do you believe this? I mean do you really really genuinely believe this?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Just make your point. I know you're a rampant leftie so get it off your chest.

 

You don't know anything about me. Just answer the question.

[MorningtonCrescent]

my one statement on this is....

 

After the general election, someone IS going to be representing you and your local area in that bastion of democracy (sic) that is called Parliament.

 

We may not all agree on the way forward, but there will be some way forward, based on the rather inadequate "first past the post" system this country adopts.

 

So, with no party political leaning, I would ask that you all consider at least registering your vote - even if it means going along and writing "you're all a bunch of corrupt bastards, on the take" across the slip!

 

Whoever you want to vote for, or even whoever you don't want to vote for, at least go along and "vote" something!

 

People have fought many wars for us to have our "freedom" and the least we can all do is to go along and have our small say in who will represent us.

 

FWIW - I am voting for the only candidate who has actually made a difference to me, in my local area, as a local councillor. On two occasions, this person has supported things I believe in and stood up in the council chamber and spoken on behalf of the issues. Both occasions their voice was heard and the right outcome prevailed. So, they get my vote for representing me in London.

 

Here endeth my rant about the election.

 

Have a nice day!

[dune]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8606499.stm

 

but at what price..

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7423138/Europes-banks-brace-for-UK-debt-crisis.html

[dune]

You don't know anything about me. Just answer the question.

 

Make your point and then i'll respond.

[View From The Top]

ha ha ha, Brelosconi can get away with stuff like that because he's got a personality and it's not fake, Brown on the other hand has zero personality and any expression of fun or joviality would just come accross as being fake - a bit like "the smile".

 

You do understand the concerted efforts in Italy to get him jailed don't you?

[Redbul]

[bridge too far]

Do you believe this? I mean do you really really genuinely believe this?

 

Yes - I know many people who've met him.

[MorningtonCrescent]

 

I’m still praying for a hung parliament as…

 

Keeping labour in power would be seen as validating what they’ve done since 1997, a lot of which has been hilariously inept.

As bad as Brown gets, he’s still going to be infinitely better than Cameron as PM, imagine that wet rag representing this country, terrifying isn’t it?

As weak as the Lib Dems are, as poor as Labour have been, there is no way, absolutely no way, that I will ever vote Tory. That's Thatcher's legacy, right there.

As bad as a hung pariliment will be, I’ve no doubt it will be infinitely better than any one party getting in. Most European countries have had nothing but hung parliaments and they manage very nicely.

 

You "lost" the argument as soon as you said the bit in bold. Politics has moved on and you should too. Support whoever you have the chance to vote in. The labour party of "old" had some loathsome characters, but that is no reason for someone not to vote labour!

 

A hung parliament? Hmmm, that'd give our wonderful politicians the chance to work together (in sweet harmony) to bring the best of all their policies to bear for the good of the nation...... OR it would allow them to conduct more "back room" decisions based on who makes the best concession (or bribe) to get what they want. Fag packet planning and power mongering at its worst. Do you trust our politicians to "power share" without it descending into farce? AND - we'd end up with another election in the short\medium term as nothing would be getting done.

[View From The Top]

I take the Nye Bevan view on tories but at this election, for the 1st time, I will be deserting by Labour beliefs and voting LibDem.

 

I was quite shocked to find my wife has decided to do the same as have my best mate and his missus.

 

My wifes and my choice is down to policy and Corky's and his wifes is down to Brown.

[dune]

You do understand the concerted efforts in Italy to get him jailed don't you?

 

I can't say i'm really interested, the point i made was that Berlosconi has a personality and that Gordon Brown doesn't.

[bridge too far]

I can't say i'm really interested, the point i made was that Berlosconi has a personality and that Gordon Brown doesn't.

 

I'm surprised that you don't make your choice dependent upon which leader has the most glamorous wife.

 

That has as much relevance as 'personality'.

[sperm_john]

The issues as I see it and what bothers me from my perspective;

 

Labour

- Whenever I see them on TV (Question Time, Local Elections etc) ..none of them seem able to shoulder any blame whatsoever and instead either deny or talk about something else, its painful to watch.

- I don't like Gordon Brown and also can imagine if he get in again he will be our equivalent of George Bush where by the end of the next term the whole country is wishing they had voted for someone else 3/4 years earlier.

- I can't imagine other world leaders being over joyed about working with him for another for yours.

- I do however like Labour's stance on the housing industry, they are traditionally the party that funds social housing etc so helps our property market/industry, where as the Conservatives are planning spending cuts on the housing industry and as its a cornerstone of our Economy ...maybe not the best idea. That said Labour have started to turn things around with the economy as well, so maybe they deserve a small amount of credit for that (despite messing it up in the first place, with a little help from the yanks).

 

Liberals

- Like many others I quite like this Vince Cable bloke, but am not overwhelmed with Nick Clegg. I always find the liberals end up taking such strange stances on things to sometimes appear different from the Tory's or Labour when really on some issues they would do themselves a favour just to fall in line with the rest (as we know Labour and Conservatives have more in common these days than ever before)

- I am against the disbanding of Trident Submarines so wont be voting for the Liberals for that clear cut reason.

- Also not sure about the liberals stance that Global warming isnt 'man made', as far as im aware there's valid arguments for both corners in that debate but neither has been wholly proved or disproved.

 

Conservatives

- I agree David Cameron can seem smarmy, and 'etonish', and theres an argument for has he ever worked and lived in the 'real world' ...but he is our most viable option other than Gordon Brown. So do I vote for him?

- I like the Conservatives tax incentives for married couples, as I think that would be a good thing on the whole for the country, with all the social issues.

- I think its quite evident by the response from businesses that the rise in NI suggested by labour is a bad idea and will stutter the recovery of the economy, yes you could argue its not in those businesses best interests to have a rise in NI, but not all of those business leaders are money driven monsters who cant see past the end of their nose... Many of them have familys and concerns about the economy and the country as a whole and they even damned labour for suggesting it was purely business motives for backing the Torys.

- The possibility of a hung parliament may seem like an OK outcome to some who is a Liberal voter or who doesnt know whether to side with Labour or Torys, but believe me it would probably have some consequences we cant even consider. It's already been written in numerous press articles that many of the foreign investors and banks would see a hung government as a bad thing for our economic recovery Traditionally hung parliaments are power struggles and therefore decision making can be tricky and slow thus impacting the important decisions that need to be made to aid our economic recovery. If the foreign investors and banks are worried, they will safe guard their money and like the banks are already doing, they wont be lending like we need them to be for markets to move. So in my opinion a hung parliament is not what we need.

 

Then theres UKIP

- I wish I could comment more because i'm not too well versed in their policys other than they want us to make the decisions and not the EU anymore which some might say is pointless now we are so heavily involved, money and time could be used on other things, but others might say they make a point about decisions coming from Brussels and not our own little island. Doing the votematch thing (google it if you havent done it) put me most in line politically with UKIP which makes me think they have agreed with or borrowed the best policys of Labour and the Torys or atleast the most popular ones with the public which makes them a bit of a mish mash, obviously the chances of them getting in are so small it makes them even more of a 'wasted vote' than the liberals ...so back to square one, Labour or Tory ...stick to my family's traditional voting roots, or cast off with my own ideas ...but even those ideas arent clear cut to make the decision easy for me ...

 

rant/ramble over ...hope this makes for okay reading =)

[View From The Top]

I can't say i'm really interested, the point i made was that Berlosconi has a personality and that Gordon Brown doesn't.

 

A personality that the Italians want long gone as he's viewed as damaging their country.

 

So you want the same in a leader do you?

[dune]

Yes - I know many people who've met him.

 

Presumably all Labour people...

[bridge too far]

Presumably all Labour people...

 

Why do you think that? I don't just consort with people who have similar views to me, you know

 

Unless you're jumping to conclusions :shock:

[dune]

A personality that the Italians want long gone as he's viewed as damaging their country.

 

So you want the same in a leader do you?

 

I want a leader with a little bit of charisma. Berlosconi is an extreme but i was chatting to my neighbours daughter last year who was a massive fan of berlosconi (she lives in Italy and is married to an Italian). I don't think you understand the Italian psyche. What is seen as inapropriate here is viewed very differently there.

[dune]

Why do you think that? I don't just consort with people who have similar views to me, you know

 

Unless you're jumping to conclusions :shock:

 

OK OK, that was presumptious, so now tell me that all these people that think Gordon brown is the life and soul of the party have never voted Labour in their lives.

[View From The Top]

I want a leader with a little bit of charisma. Berlosconi is an extreme but i was chatting to my neighbours daughter last year who was a massive fan of berlosconi (she lives in Italy and is married to an Italian). I don't think you understand the Italian psyche. What is seen as inapropriate here is viewed very differently there.

 

I spend an awful lot of time in northern Italy, speak the language (badly) and read their sports papers daily so don't pretend to know me.

 

He's viewed as a buffon at best and an embarrassment at worst.

 

If you want personality then why do you want Cameron? He is as insipid and uninspiring as they come. A typical career politician in the same way the Millibands are.

[dune]

I spend an awful lot of time in northern Italy, speak the language (badly) and read their sports papers daily so don't pretend to know me.

 

He's viewed as a buffon at best and an embarrassment at worst.

 

If you want personality then why do you want Cameron? He is as insipid and uninspiring as they come. A typical career politician in the same way the Millibands are.

 

So your views are the views of the Italian ellectorate are they?

[jeff leopard]

I don't underatnd how anyone can consider Cameron would be a worse representative of this country internationally than Brown. The way Brown tried to be seen with Barrack Obama recently (and it was clear Obabma didn't want to be seen with Brown) is a testament to what a weak and embarrassing leader he is on the world stage.

 

One thing that sums up Brown for me was at a European leader get-together a while ago. They had a buffet lunch and they all stood around chatting with each other, doing deals etc, and Brown was sat in the corner on his own, just eating and sulking. I’ve never got that image of him out of my mind since.

 

But, baring all this in mind, he’s still infinitely more preferable then Cameron. It’s true that Brown has tried to play upon his being mates with Obama, which is just wish-fulfilment, but who can forget Obama's classic summing up of Cameron when they had a meeting during Obama’s visit to Britain…’what a lightweight’.

[bridge too far]

OK OK, that was presumptious, so now tell me that all these people that think Gordon brown is the life and soul of the party have never voted Labour in their lives.

 

Why are you twisting what I said? I never said he was the life and soul of the party. I simply said that people I know have found him to be charming and funny.

 

And, whilst it's fair to say that some of those people are labour supporters, I don't know the voting intentions, past or present, of all of them - mainly because it's not a question I ask as a priority.

 

They are people who have met him during their work. You know, doctors, nurses, teachers......

 

In the course of my work I've met a few Tory politicians (Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke spring to mind). I've found both those men to be charming too.

 

Just so you know I'm not blinkered in the bias stakes.

[View From The Top]

So your views are the views of the Italian ellectorate are they?

 

I would suggest they are slightly more informed that someone who had a chat with a neighbours daughter.

 

Try reading about European politics, you may learn something.

[View From The Top]

Why are you twisting what I said? I never said he was the life and soul of the party. I simply said that people I know have found him to be charming and funny.

 

And, whilst it's fair to say that some of those people are labour supporters, I don't know the voting intentions, past or present, of all of them - mainly because it's not a question I ask as a priority.

 

They are people who have met him during their work. You know, doctors, nurses, teachers......

 

In the course of my work I've met a few Tory politicians (Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke spring to mind). I've found both those men to be charming too.

 

Just so you know I'm not blinkered in the bias stakes.

 

I found Ken Clarke to be a great laugh. Witty, clever and doesn't take himself too seriously.

 

Pity he's a tory.

[bridge too far]

I found Ken Clarke to be a great laugh. Witty, clever and doesn't take himself too seriously.

 

Pity he's a tory.

 

Only just I think

[dune]

Why are you twisting what I said? I never said he was the life and soul of the party. I simply said that people I know have found him to be charming and funny.

 

And, whilst it's fair to say that some of those people are labour supporters, I don't know the voting intentions, past or present, of all of them - mainly because it's not a question I ask as a priority.

 

They are people who have met him during their work. You know, doctors, nurses, teachers......

 

In the course of my work I've met a few Tory politicians (Heseltine and Kenneth Clarke spring to mind). I've found both those men to be charming too.

 

Just so you know I'm not blinkered in the bias stakes.

 

I apologise, I was wrongly under the impression that people you talked of had spent more than a fleeting moment chatting to gordon at a staged engagement. Even for Gordon Brown it's conceiveable he could come accross as being charming and funny when Mandelson had arranged proceedings. But is that the real Gordon Brown or the "Smiley" Gordon Brown that suddenly appeared in 2009?

[bridge too far]

I apologise, I was wrongly under the impression that people you talked of had spent more than a fleeting moment chatting to gordon at a staged engagement. Even for Gordon Brown it's conceiveable he could come accross as being charming and funny when Mandelson had arranged proceedings. But is that the real Gordon Brown or the "Smiley" Gordon Brown that suddenly appeared in 2009?

 

So wrong.

[dune]

I would suggest they are slightly more informed that someone who had a chat with a neighbours daughter.

 

Try reading about European politics, you may learn something.

 

I see so the Italians you've spoken to are representative, but Italians with a different view are not. VFTT by all means put your case accross but do not presume to speak for everyone.

[dune]

So wrong.

 

But you do acknowledge that Gordon Brown was told to start smiling more?

[Thedelldays]

i am voting for the first time in years for this onw

[bridge too far]

But you do acknowledge that Gordon Brown was told to start smiling more?

 

No - because I don't know.

 

HTH

[View From The Top]

I see so the Italians you've spoken to are representative, but Italians with a different view are not. VFTT by all means put your case accross but do not presume to speak for everyone.

 

As I've said, read up on Italian politics, the moves to stip him of his power, and the laws he has put in place solely to protect himself and then you'll have a place to comment.

 

Unlike you I base my comments on the evidence, not a chat with my neighbours daughter.

 

Read this article and you'll see what I mean but hey, you know more than me about Italian politics.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7044658.ece