Pardews real record

[stmusicdude]

History books show the match was a draw, the tie was won on penalties.

 

That's why the penalties aren't added onto the goal tally at the end of the game because they are not part of the match, they are a mechanism to settle the tie.

 

That's why the result of the match is not 7-5 or whatever, but 1-1 or 2-2, with the shootout listed seperately.

 

That's why goals scored in penalty shoot outs don't count on players' tallies for the season. Because they don't count as part of the match, just to settle the tie.

 

So your argument that "we scored more goals and saved more shots" is just factually wrong. We didn't, because penalties scored in a shoot out are not "goals", they are converted penalties. Even commentators acknowledge this - you never hear them say "he's scored a goal" in a shootout.

 

Those cup games were drawn games.

 

Those SAME commentators also say " and Southampton have won it on penalties ..

 

a League tie yes ends after 90 mins but a cup tie often ends after extra time or penalties

Just because betting slips use the "90 mins " rule as a get out clause, doesn’t actually alter the fact the matches went to completion & in these cases that completion is after extra time & penalties.

[CB Fry]

Those SAME commentators also say " and Southampton have won it on penalties ..

 

a League tie yes ends after 90 mins but a cup tie often ends after extra time or penalties

Just because betting slips use the "90 mins " rule as a get out clause, doesn’t actually alter the fact the matches went to completion & in these cases that completion is after extra time & penalties.

 

 

I love this debate. Who's saying we didn't win? Of course we won. We won on penalties. Not sure why the counter argument is always this.

 

No one is ever saying we didn't win. No one is saying Man U didn't win the Champion's League or whatever example you want to wheel out.

 

And no one is saying the games didn't go to complettion either. I don't bet so have no idea what bookies say or not.

 

But the match was drawn and when you look at records of W/D/L, those games go in the D column.

 

Look at the scores. The scores say 1-1. Or 2-2. Or 0-0. They don't say 9-7 or 7-5 with the penalties added on.

 

Drawn football match. Tie won on penalties. Penalties are not "goals".

[benjii]

I would argue that a drawn cup match is a qualitatively different thing from a drawn league match.

[CB Fry]

I would argue that a drawn cup match is a qualitatively different thing from a drawn league match.

 

 

I'd agree - cup games are "runs" in themselves so to chuck them into "winning (or losing) streaks is a bit pointless.

 

But then we wouldn't have this argument every few weeks with opinions slightly more entrenched than in the debate on whether Ireland should be united or not.

[CB Saint]

On the 5th December we were 9 points off the playoffs.

 

Today we are 7 points off the playoffs.

 

You can say what you like but the table doesn't lie and Pardew has performed over the past 4 months.

 

To be better off now than we were back in December is good enough.

[charlie saint]

...But the match was drawn and when you look at records of W/D/L, those games go in the D column.

 

Look at the scores. The scores say 1-1. Or 2-2. Or 0-0. They don't say 9-7 or 7-5 with the penalties added on.

 

Good point... and you're half right.

 

Looking at the back pages of a recent Saints Matchday Programme, the score for that Norwich match is down as 2-2. But the all important letter in the 'Result' column is a big W. You have to look at the footnote for the score of the penalty shootout (6-5), and the scorers (presumably so these goals can be kept separate from their personal tally, as suggested).

 

So - we won the match. The score was 2-2.

[charlie saint]

What were we talking about?

 

Oh yeah... looking at the absolute number of points we are behind at different stages of the season is a complete red herring.

 

Someone explained this ages ago, in the context of the minus 10 points.

 

9 points behind after 20 games is actually a worse position than still being 11 points behind after 40... of course, you're still 9 or 11 points behind, but as a percentage of the total... it's hard to explain, but do you see?

[Thedelldays]

Good point... and you're half right.

 

Looking at the back pages of a recent Saints Matchday Programme, the score for that Norwich match is down as 2-2. But the all important letter in the 'Result' column is a big W. You have to look at the footnote for the score of the penalty shootout (6-5), and the scorers (presumably so these goals can be kept separate from their personal tally, as suggested).

 

So - we won the match. The score was 2-2.

we did win the tie

 

if it was a league game we would not have had penalties

[St Marco]

History books show the match was a draw, the tie was won on penalties.

 

That's why the penalties aren't added onto the goal tally at the end of the game because they are not part of the match, they are a mechanism to settle the tie.

 

That's why the result of the match is not 7-5 or whatever, but 1-1 or 2-2, with the shootout listed seperately.

 

That's why goals scored in penalty shoot outs don't count on players' tallies for the season. Because they don't count as part of the match, just to settle the tie.

 

So your argument that "we scored more goals and saved more shots" is just factually wrong. We didn't, because penalties scored in a shoot out are not "goals", they are converted penalties. Even commentators acknowledge this - you never hear them say "he's scored a goal" in a shootout.

 

Those cup games were drawn games.

 

I must be really stupid or something but for the life of me i cannot believe a word of that.

 

Here are the history books

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/ResultsSearch/0,,10794~2009000054,00.html

 

And see next to the score it has another score (the who won on penalties score?). The figure clearly shows who won the game and the way they won the game.

 

People such as yourself are just trying to over complicate something that does not need to be complicated. It is very very simple.....

 

Firstly you seem to be getting it confused, this is not a league game, this is a CUP game. League rules and cup rules are very different. Where a league game can end in a draw a cup game cannot. It seems so childish that i have to even point that out.

 

So now we have gathered it is not a league game we have to look at the cup rules for the games. In these instances the cup rules were if a team draws at the 90 min mark rather then continue to play for another 30mins they would have a penalty shootout and the team that scores the most goals wins.

 

The thing which your not accepting is the method of penalties to determine that winner. While you mention neither team scored more goals then the other in normal time you don't mention one team scored more goals then the other in the shootout. A goal is a goal, they both put a 1 on the teams score tally. In this case it put a 1 on our shootout tally.

 

So after we DREW over 90 mins we were asked to play a shootout to determine who would win and thus advance to the next round because again there has to be a WINNER. On the shootout we got more in the net then they did, our number was higher then theirs, thus we won the shootout. Which was the method used to seperate the teams if over 90mins there was a draw.

 

Meaning we drew over 90 mins, we won on penalties, we progressed, thus we won.....

[Thedelldays]

would we have got 3 points or one if it was a league game.

and do the goals scored in the penalty shoot out count in the seasons total../

 

ffs, who cares

 

edit. we did win, which means burley was even worse than we could hope for..he lost the playoffs 2nd leg...LOST BOTH GAMES...the prat

[CB Fry]

I must be really stupid or something but for the life of me i cannot believe a word of that.

 

Here are the history books

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/ResultsSearch/0,,10794~2009000054,00.html

 

And see next to the score it has another score (the who won on penalties score?). The figure clearly shows who won the game and the way they won the game.

 

People such as yourself are just trying to over complicate something that does not need to be complicated. It is very very simple.....

 

Firstly you seem to be getting it confused, this is not a league game, this is a CUP game. League rules and cup rules are very different. Where a league game can end in a draw a cup game cannot. It seems so childish that i have to even point that out.

 

So now we have gathered it is not a league game we have to look at the cup rules for the games. In these instances the cup rules were if a team draws at the 90 min mark rather then continue to play for another 30mins they would have a penalty shootout and the team that scores the most goals wins.

 

The thing which your not accepting is the method of penalties to determine that winner. While you mention neither team scored more goals then the other in normal time you don't mention one team scored more goals then the other in the shootout. A goal is a goal, they both put a 1 on the teams score tally. In this case it put a 1 on our shootout tally.

 

So after we DREW over 90 mins we were asked to play a shootout to determine who would win and thus advance to the next round because again there has to be a WINNER. On the shootout we got more in the net then they did, our number was higher then theirs, thus we won the shootout. Which was the method used to seperate the teams if over 90mins there was a draw.

 

Meaning we drew over 90 mins, we won on penalties, we progressed, thus we won.....

 

 

That's a pretty long post with a link to the history books or something - and I'm overcomplicating things.

 

2-2 is a draw, as is 1-1 as is 0-0. It's not about "league and cup rules". It's a draw. That isn't complicated.

 

And a goal is not a goal in a penalty shoot out. If they were they'd be added onto the score as they went in and they'd be included in the players goal tallies for the season. Scored penalties are not "goals". Not complicated.

 

And how many times do you divs need to go on about the fact we WON the cup ties on penalties. You're pretending I don't know that. Using CAPITALS doesn't make you more right. I know we WON. We were the WINNERS. We WON on the WINNING front. When it comes to being WINNERS we WON. We WONdiddly WONWONWON WON.

 

The match finished in a draw though. What we WON was the cup tie. Thanks for reminding me. Again, not complicated.

 

Good luck in getting penalties included in the history books on strikers tally for the season. After all, a goal is a goal and it's not complicated

Edited 29 April, 2010 by CB Fry

[charlie saint]

...when you look at records of W/D/L, those games go in the D column.

 

Have a look at the season's record in the back of a programme.

[CB Fry]

Have a look at the season's record in the back of a programme.

 

 

You've already made that point on this thread and quoted the same bit from me twice. Have a banana. We won the cup tie, the game was drawn. If I was doing the program, I'd put W too.

 

Who cares anyway. My contribution to this debate is over.

[derry]

Just an aside. The penalties scored by Lambert etc in the cup penalty shootouts are not counted in their official season's goalscoring totals.

[saintwarwick]

would we have got 3 points or one if it was a league game.

and do the goals scored in the penalty shoot out count in the seasons total../

 

ffs, who cares

 

edit. we did win, which means burley was even worse than we could hope for..he lost the playoffs 2nd leg...LOST BOTH GAMES...the prat

 

Oh dear, Burley was let down by one player in the first leg and we managed to win the second leg and yes we lost the tie overall on penalties but this two legged playoff cannot compare to a one off game. Still your anti Burley colours are shining here.

[Thedelldays]

Oh dear, Burley was let down by one player in the first leg and we managed to win the second leg and yes we lost the tie overall on penalties but this two legged playoff cannot compare to a one off game. Still your anti Burley colours are shining here.

nah.we lost

[sadoldgit]

Jesus, surely if you win the match you win the match. Not difficult unless you are C B Fry. If you are totting up the number of games Pardew has WON you need to add those cup games in.

 

Simples.

[sadoldgit]

You've already made that point on this thread and quoted the same bit from me twice. Have a banana. We won the cup tie, the game was drawn. If I was doing the program, I'd put W too.

 

Who cares anyway. My contribution to this debate is over.

 

YAY!

[cambsaint]

I don't post very often, but over the years I have found that goal difference over a season rarely lies.

I'm very happy with Pardew's performance this year and IMO we were damned lucky to find a proven manager.

I hope he stays takes us to an all-time points record promotion next year and lays the foundations for our return to the Prem in about three or four years.

(No point in going up before you're ready unless you want a thoroughly depressing year in the top league."

Cambsaint

[Lazlo78]

Season stats:

Played	Wins	Draws	Losses	F	A	Pts/g	F (av.)	A (av.)
[b]Total	59	34	14	11	112	65	1,97	1,90	1,10[/b]
FL1	46	23	14	9	85	47	1,80	1,85	1,02
LGCP	2	1	0	1	3	2	1,50	1,50	1,00
FACP	5	4	0	1	10	9	2,40	2,00	1,80
JPT	6	6	0	0	14	7	3,00	2,33	1,17

 

Results distribution:

1-1	8
3-1	8
1-0	6
2-2	5
2-0	4
3-2	4
1-2	4
0-1	3
0-0	3
2-1	3
1-3	2
3-0	2
4-1	2
5-1	2
1-4	1
2-3	1
5-0	1