Pardew's Record

[doddisalegend]

Pardew has done OK, but he's certainly not done well. Given the money he's spent we should be higher in the league (and yes i do realise we had a 10 point deduction). He should be given more time, but if we don't get off to a flyer next season then i think he should be replaced early doors.

 

Most of it january. If we'd spent the whole lot in August to assemble the team we have now I'd agree but seeing as most of the new signings have only been playing for us for two and half months your point doesn't hold IMO.

[Thedelldays]

Why is it pointless? people keep banging on about money, we've spent more in prevoius seasons and done no better or more often worse than this season yes we were at a higher level but we bought better players so it all evens out. If we where in the EPL and spent say 9mil and in the same postion everyone would be singing APs praises but becuase we are in league one, gave everyone else a 10pt head start people are saying APs not doing a good enough job it makes no ****ing sense to me.

 

it is pointless to compare burleys time. or lawrie macs time or even branflakes time to pardew..

 

each manager at saints has a different objective, different resources, different players and NOW, different level of opposition

 

it is all relative...saying burley spent more than twice as much as pardew makes no sense...he is bound to as the players would have been more expensive

 

IMO, you judge each manager on his own merits and achievements from what he has available and what he has to spend..

 

trying to make some sort of point that burley spent twice as much as pardew makes no sense what so ever...

[dune]

Why is it pointless? people keep banging on about money, we've spent more in prevoius seasons and done no better or more often worse than this season yes we were at a higher level but we bought better players so it all evens out. If we where in the EPL and spent say 9mil and in the same postion everyone would be singing APs praises but becuase we are in league one, gave everyone else a 10pt head start people are saying APs not doing a good enough job it makes no ****ing sense to me.

 

We are the top spenders in L1 so in relative terms we've spent like Chelsea or Man Utd. Without the 10 point penalty we'd still be outside the top 6. That's not good enough and last nights performance was typical of how we've underachieved.

[doddisalegend]

We are the top spenders in L1 so in relative terms we've spent like Chelsea or Man Utd. Without the 10 point penalty we'd still be outside the top 6. That's not good enough and last nights performance was typical of how we've underachieved.

 

by 2 points with eight games to go hardly terrible.

[dune]

by 2 points with eight games to go hardly terrible.

 

Hardly good.

[derry]

We are the top spenders in L1 so in relative terms we've spent like Chelsea or Man Utd. Without the 10 point penalty we'd still be outside the top 6. That's not good enough and last nights performance was typical of how we've underachieved.

 

Your wasting your time. Give it time and eventually the penny will drop that what we have now with Pardew is all we are going to get, because that's the way he manages.

[sadoldgit]

All any manager can do is win games with the team he has. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that managers who have a high points to games ratio have done a decent job. It might not be the job that you were hoping for but that is down to individiual perceptions. That is the good thing about stats. They take away the subjectivity (or should if you don't have agendas like some on here) and just presents facts.

 

No matter what you think of Pardew as a manager he has managed so far to average 1.9 points per competitive game. Even the Mighty Alpine would probably break into a half smile if we had a manager who could average 3 points a game. We all know that is not possible but the nearer you get to 3 per game the better. Pardew so far has the best figures so that should be a good thing. Apparently not though in some camps.

[doddisalegend]

it is pointless to compare burleys time. or lawrie macs time or even branflakes time to pardew..

 

each manager at saints has a different objective, different resources, different players and NOW, different level of opposition

 

it is all relative...saying burley spent more than twice as much as pardew makes no sense...he is bound to as the players would have been more expensive

IMO, you judge each manager on his own merits and achievements from what he has available and what he has to spend..

 

trying to make some sort of point that burley spent twice as much as pardew makes no sense what so ever...

 

Which I pointed out. Assuming fizzy pop players are twice as good as league one players and cost twice as much they spent equal amounts (not taking into account inflation) but the facts show AP has achieved more with the resources avaliable to him than any other saints manager.

[Thedelldays]

All any manager can do is win games with the team he has. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that managers who have a high points to games ratio have done a decent job. It might not be the job that you were hoping for but that is down to individiual perceptions. That is the good thing about stats. They take away the subjectivity (or should if you don't have agendas like some on here) and just presents facts.

 

No matter what you think of Pardew as a manager he has managed so far to average 1.9 points per competitive game. Even the Mighty Alpine would probably break into a half smile if we had a manager who could average 3 points a game. We all know that is not possible but the nearer you get to 3 per game the better. Pardew so far has the best figures so that should be a good thing. Apparently not though in some camps.

 

I do see your point..but when you look at boothroyd, wilson, jacket all with less than a pot to pee in..some been inthe job as long as pardew has achieved more with teams of frees and loans..

 

that I think is the beef with the form we have...

[Thedelldays]

Which I pointed out. Assuming fizzy pop players are twice as good as league one players and cost twice as much they spent equal amounts (not taking into account inflation) but the facts show AP has achieved more with the resources avaliable to him than any other saints manager.

sorry..but a load of horse feed...

 

do you think ALL of pompey players are twice as good as newcastle players..?

 

do you think ALL of plymouths players are twice as good as norwich players..?

 

do you think that Bradley Wright-phillips is twice as good as Lambert..?

[John B]

Which I pointed out. Assuming fizzy pop players are twice as good as league one players and cost twice as much they spent equal amounts (not taking into account inflation) but the facts show AP has achieved more with the resources avaliable to him than any other saints manager.

 

So he should have and possibly done a bit better as George Burley had done.

 

 

Not sure Pardew would have done any better last season than was achieved

[doddisalegend]

sorry..but a load of horse feed...

 

do you think ALL of pompey players are twice as good as newcastle players..?

 

do you think ALL of plymouths players are twice as good as norwich players..?

 

do you think that Bradley Wright-phillips is twice as good as Lambert..?

 

So you don't think they're twice a good fine in which case Burley's spending outstripped APs on players that weren't even twice as good as we have now and he achieved less. I was being kind with twice as much to try and give some balance to the spending. So lets try this Burley spent seven million on players that were a bit better than what we have now puts APs spending in perspective then thanks.

[doddisalegend]

So he should have and possibly done a bit better as George Burley had done.

 

 

Not sure Pardew would have done any better last season than was achieved

 

Didn't see Burley win any trophies;)

 

Actually I think AP would have got more out of the youngsters than the Dutch wizards. AP seems to get good results out of young players look how much better Morgan and Lallanna look this season to compared to last, I think Antonio is getting better under AP too.

[Dig Dig]

Your wasting your time. Give it time and eventually the penny will drop that what we have now with Pardew is all we are going to get, because that's the way he manages.

 

I'm happy with what we are getting Derry so the penny has already dropped.

[sadoldgit]

I do see your point..but when you look at boothroyd, wilson, jacket all with less than a pot to pee in..some been inthe job as long as pardew has achieved more with teams of frees and loans..

 

that I think is the beef with the form we have...

 

THis is the thing though isn't it? Some manage more with less but none of those managers are manging in the Prem. Why is that? Putting a team together is not an exact science and sometimes it can happen by complete chance. Pardew has done well but this team is not the finished article. He has spent money and he has brought in freebies. If ytou are lucky enough to have kep positions already sorted half the battle is won. LIke Burley, Pardew has been expected to come in and get it right in hos first season. A tall ask for any manager. In Burleys' only full season his team were as good as any in the top 6. I would say the same for Pardew right now. Translating that into results is the tricky part and if it was easy all the teams would cancel each other out. Huamn frality will always enter the equation. With a stronger mindset a couple of Burley's players would not have c*cked up and we would have made the play off finals. Pardew has a decent defence but they can still switch off. Is that his fault or theirs?

 

I heard a manager the other day say that the key to getting a winning team togther is their mental toughness. He can check out a players skill but it is harder to get into their heads. Some players deliver come what may, with some it comes and goes. Pardew's job it to find more mental toughess, or instill it if he can in others. That is where he earns his cash. Getting what he needs out of the players week in week out. NO easy task as can be seen at Leeds right nowo

[John B]

Didn't see Burley win any trophies;)

 

Actually I think AP would have got more out of the youngsters than the Dutch wizards. AP seems to get good results out of young players look how much better Morgan and Lallanna look this season to compared to last, I think Antonio is getting better under AP too.

 

Sorry what I meant was Burley should have done better

 

 

Morgan and Adam are a year older and stronger and more experienced so I would have expected an improvement but it maybe down to the new coaches

[sadoldgit]

Didn't see Burley win any trophies;)

 

Actually I think AP would have got more out of the youngsters than the Dutch wizards. AP seems to get good results out of young players look how much better Morgan and Lallanna look this season to compared to last, I think Antonio is getting better under AP too.

 

Nope; although he did a great job at IPswich and probably would have won trophies with Hearts. His aim with us was to make the play offs and that he did in his only full season. Not good enough for some I appreciate, but hardly a dismal failure.

[doddisalegend]

Sorry what I meant was Burley should have done better

 

 

Morgan and Adam are a year older and stronger and more experienced so I would have expected an improvement but it maybe down to the new coaches

 

True they have matured but I think AP has to be given credit for that. (Seeing as he's not allowed credit for anything else;))

[doddisalegend]

Nope; although he did a great job at IPswich and probably would have won trophies with Hearts. His aim with us was to make the play offs and that he did in his only full season. Not good enough for some I appreciate, but hardly a dismal failure.

 

I agree Burley got us to the play offs and spent seven million doing it no-one ever complained about the money he spent though. For some reason 3mil is a big stick to beat the crap out of AP with. AP has won us silverware for the first time in 34 years ok its only the JPT but still you'd think he'd recive a little bit of gratatuide, but no four days later a draw (not a loss a draw) against an inform side away from home and APs the ****ing anti-christ:snakeman: again I just don't get it:mad:

[derry]

I'm happy with what we are getting Derry so the penny has already dropped.

 

We aren't going to get to the premier and stay there with Pardew as the manager. His pragmatic approach leaves us well short of what we should be with this squad. I think that NC will pull the plug if he falls short of the play offs.

 

The JPT euphoria will have worn off and be replaced by disappointment and I can't see NC allowing the time.

[ottery st mary]

Goodness me, Derry you been talking to the ex Manager/player again....You are full of it as usual...You and your little group so far up your own arssses...You talk such tripe..

 

Let us know what this little axe you and your group have to grind..Be honest for a change.

 

You call yourselves fans.

 

I expect better from you,Duncan Holley and Weston.....

 

Let us know what it is all about.

[Saint_clark]

Interesting self-contradiction there,

 

Btw, who wants AP sacked ?

 

Don't even try the "no-one has said they want Pardew to go" rubbish again, as there are clear quotes in the thread I started.

[Dig Dig]

We aren't going to get to the premier and stay there with Pardew as the manager. His pragmatic approach leaves us well short of what we should be with this squad. I think that NC will pull the plug if he falls short of the play offs.

 

The JPT euphoria will have worn off and be replaced by disappointment and I can't see NC allowing the time.

 

Well I personally don't want this to happen. You can argue that his pragmatic approach will impact our push to the prem and you may even be right. When you look at what we have achieved in a short period of time I think there is alot to be optimistic about.

 

You do talk alot about the pragmatic approach but I don't think this is the only element to our play. Yes, we use Lambert as a target man but that is what he is good at and it is effective. At the same time, we do look to use our pace to counter attack (papa's goal on Sunday was excellent).

[View From The Top]

Well I personally don't want this to happen. You can argue that his pragmatic approach will impact our push to the prem and you may even be right. When you look at what we have achieved in a short period of time I think there is alot to be optimistic about.

 

You do talk alot about the pragmatic approach but I don't think this is the only element to our play. Yes, we use Lambert as a target man but that is what he is good at and it is effective. At the same time, we do look to use our pace to counter attack (papa's goal on Sunday was excellent).

 

What you have to remember is Derry, Weston and their little cohort have never rated AP and would love him sacked.

 

Their tarnished approach dulls everything they type.

 

Check out what they write and you'll see it to be true.

[John B]

True they have matured but I think AP has to be given credit for that. (Seeing as he's not allowed credit for anything else;))

 

Yes OK I agree

[derry]

Well I personally don't want this to happen. You can argue that his pragmatic approach will impact our push to the prem and you may even be right. When you look at what we have achieved in a short period of time I think there is alot to be optimistic about.

 

You do talk alot about the pragmatic approach but I don't think this is the only element to our play. Yes, we use Lambert as a target man but that is what he is good at and it is effective. At the same time, we do look to use our pace to counter attack (papa's goal on Sunday was excellent).

 

Yes it was well worked, however it was Lambert and Waigo both decent footballers, linking up the left and Lambert crossing for Antonio. If this was the way we played most of the time I would be delighted, however it's the preponderance of long balls, especially from Davis I don't like.

[ottery st mary]

There are a few on here who are not satisfied and want our Manager moved on...I have to accept their opinion and not get frustrated with them.....Sorry chaps...Derry..you talk more boollllocks than me?

 

For me..I am more than satisfied with the way things are progressing....Like everyone..I want to win all games but then again we are getting there..

 

I am proud to be a Saints supporter and very proud to have Pardew as manager along with his very good coaching team..

 

We will get there sooner than later......

[derry]

What you have to remember is Derry, Weston and their little cohort have never rated AP and would love him sacked.

 

Their tarnished approach dulls everything they type.

 

Check out what they write and you'll see it to be true.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but my view of Pardew is because of the approximately 30 matches I've seen this season.

[ottery st mary]

I can't speak for anyone else but my view of Pardew is because of the approximately 30 matches I've seen this season.

 

Would you not even see out the season and say 10/15 games of the new season?

 

Your opinion..ok..Who is your own choice to manage...

 

I honestly believe Pards is up there with the best in Div 1 and CCC

[dune]

For me..I am more than satisfied with the way things are progressing.

 

But we're not progressing - that is the point.

[ottery st mary]

But we're not progressing - that is the point.

 

 

I am satisfied with the way the club is going.

[dune]

I am satisfied with the way the club is going.

 

That's better.

[ottery st mary]

That's better.

 

 

Adding, that we could do better;) Especially on Monday and the rest of the season...

 

Otherwise I will join, derry. weston and FF AND OF COURSE YOUR GOODSELF IN THE GRUMPY OLD MENS CORNER..

[Weston Saint]

I do not disagree that Pardew is a good manager in Div1. His record with Saints is pretty good and he got us to Wembley and won it.

 

What I have been saying is that I do not think he has enough to get us to the Premier and hold us there.

 

I was looking at league table just now, having just got back from a few days away in Cornwall. We are 11 points of the playoff and if you take into account our -10 we are 1 point off and only another 6 from automatic promotion in second place. That 7 points can be accounted for in our poor start and not something I think Pardew can be blamed for.

 

So what I am saying is Pardew has had a very good season but I am concerned he does not have enough to get us to where we want to go. I do not want him sacked at present. Let us see where we are at the end of the season. He deserves that much. Hope that clears that up.

[ottery st mary]

I do not disagree that Pardew is a good manager in Div1. His record with Saints is pretty good and he got us to Wembley and won it.

 

What I have been saying is that I do not think he has enough to get us to the Premier and hold us there.

 

I was looking at league table just now, having just got back from a few days away in Cornwall. We are 11 points of the playoff and if you take into account our -10 we are 1 point off and only another 6 from automatic promotion in second place. That 7 points can be accounted for in our poor start and not something I think Pardew can be blamed for.

 

So what I am saying is Pardew has had a very good season but I am concerned he does not have enough to get us to where we want to go. I do not want him sacked at present. Let us see where we are at the end of the season. He deserves that much. Hope that clears that up.

 

So good..I had to read it twice....

 

You are still a grumpy old man.....most of the time;)

[View From The Top]

I do not disagree that Pardew is a good manager in Div1. His record with Saints is pretty good and he got us to Wembley and won it.

 

What I have been saying is that I do not think he has enough to get us to the Premier and hold us there.

 

I was looking at league table just now, having just got back from a few days away in Cornwall. We are 11 points of the playoff and if you take into account our -10 we are 1 point off and only another 6 from automatic promotion in second place. That 7 points can be accounted for in our poor start and not something I think Pardew can be blamed for.

 

So what I am saying is Pardew has had a very good season but I am concerned he does not have enough to get us to where we want to go. I do not want him sacked at present. Let us see where we are at the end of the season. He deserves that much. Hope that clears that up.

 

He has more than enough to get us there but as for keeping us there, forgive me if I don't give that much thought at the moment.

 

It's also very gracious of you to give him to the end of the season before you and Derry raise a glass to his sacking.

[stmusicdude]

We are the top spenders in L1 so in relative terms we've spent like Chelsea or Man Utd. Without the 10 point penalty we'd still be outside the top 6. That's not good enough and last nights performance was typical of how we've underachieved.

Well that's very misleading, last 2 seasons Man city have been the top spenders

and what have they won? oh yes NOTHING!!

It's all very well saying the money hasn't made a difference... It clearly has had we not spent what we spent, we'd of been cannon fodder this season waiting for our next relegation.. The realifity is ok IF you carry it through ALL the way. The team we had left after the departures last summer would of struggled with most managers in the BSP .. never mind league 1 .. YES we COULD of sone better, a few games this has been bourne out & we have been wanting.. but could & should are 2 very different things. We spent .. it's dosent give us a right to better results .. We are going in the right direction ..

Clubs that spend & swap managers regually, normally fail .. clubs that build on starting blocks normally do better, but not always thats why we love football.

 

If we believed the theory behind the fact we have spent NO tv company would pay to show football, they wouldn't get enough viewers to justify it!

[Gorgiesaint]

Some of you have very short memories...

 

...less than a year ago, we were 3 weeks from the start of the season when Pardew walked through the door, he had Stewart Henderson in charge of the first team at that point and no disrespect to Stewart but he was out of his depth. At that time we had a squad in turmoil and under-prepared for the season ahead. Would I have taken 8th place & winning the JPT - I would have bitten your hand off. But.....

 

I can understand the frustration - games against (in no particular order) Tranmere (a), Brentford (a), Exeter (a), Brighton (h) & Wycombe (a) have cost us points that would should have picked up.

[JibMcdo]

I do not disagree that Pardew is a good manager in Div1. His record with Saints is pretty good and he got us to Wembley and won it.

 

What I have been saying is that I do not think he has enough to get us to the Premier and hold us there.

 

I was looking at league table just now, having just got back from a few days away in Cornwall. We are 11 points of the playoff and if you take into account our -10 we are 1 point off and only another 6 from automatic promotion in second place. That 7 points can be accounted for in our poor start and not something I think Pardew can be blamed for.

 

So what I am saying is Pardew has had a very good season but I am concerned he does not have enough to get us to where we want to go. I do not want him sacked at present. Let us see where we are at the end of the season. He deserves that much. Hope that clears that up.

 

So what you are saying is this season, in normal circumstances with no deductions and a normal start to the season, Pardew would have got us promoted, but you don't think he's good enough to get us where we want to go - getting promoted out of this league and beyond? If you are saying you don't think Pardew has what it takes to get us out of The Championship that is very presumptuous and goes against what our manager achieved at West Ham.

[saint J]

DUNE, shut it! alot of your past posts have been sensible and made sense, Today you are talking complete balls, shut up and enjoy what we have! yeah it was a bad result last night but why call for a managers head when he has just won us a cup and has transformed our dire team this season!

[Gorgiesaint]

League table based on results from 1st October: (after the Bristol Rovers defeat at St Marys)

 

1 Norwich 69

2 Millwall 60

3= Saints 55

3= Swindon 55

5= Colchester 47

5= Huddersfield 47

7= Charlton 45

7= Leeds 45

9 Carlisle 41

10 MK Dons 40

 

I've just done the top 10 as its shows the teams we're interested in. Hope that demonstrates that the slow start to the season has cost us probably more than the 10 points deduction.

[JackFrost]

Before Alan Pardew arrived the manager with with best points per game record was Burley with 1.54 points per game.

 

Ignoring the pre season friendlies, Pardew's record in league and cup games (giving 3 points for a win) is 1.90 points per game.

 

For those who think that he is tactically inept and should be sacked, perhaps they should reflect that even the great Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy never managed that kind of return.

 

As someone who would be more than happy to back AP for a promotion challenge next season I encourage you to just sit back and see if you can work out why comparing the managerial records of Burley/Pardew with Lawrie/Bates is highly flawed.

 

If you honestly can't work out why then I feel sorry for you quite frankly.

 

You'll find one very good suggestion in the 2nd paragraph of delldays earlier post. (Post 52 of this thread I believe)

Edited 2 April, 2010 by JackFrost

[doddisalegend]

As someone who would be more than happy to back AP for a promotion challenge next season I encourage you to just sit back and see if you can work out why comparing the managerial records of Burley/Pardew with Lawrie/Bates is highly flawed.

 

If you honestly can't work out why then I feel sorry for you quite frankly.

 

You'll find one very good suggestion in the 2nd paragraph of delldays earlier post. (Post 52 of this thread I believe)

 

By your logic nothing can be compared then? How do you decide if the steak you ate yesterday is better than the one you ate today? for example. Or if your first girlfriend was a better lay than your third? The simple fact is if you compare the pts per game AP has the best. Now you can look for reasons why that is and there may be many and they maybe totally valid. It is however human nature to compare things every day and make a descion about which one is best. Which is better a Porsche or a Skoda? hardly a fair comparassion but that doesn't mean you can't do it or that deciding on the Porsche is wrong.

[S-Clarke]

People need to realise that football isn't a defined logic.

 

It doesn't work like this - Because we beat Norwich, we have to beat Tranmere, because we beat Mk Dons, we have to beat brighton...and so on.

 

So because Norwich have lost like 1 game in 20 odd, they shouldn't loose 2-0 to tranmere tonight?

 

oh. current score - Tranmere 2 - 0 Norwich. 14mins gone.

[doddisalegend]

People need to realise that football isn't a defined logic.

 

It doesn't work like this - Because we beat Norwich, we have to beat Tranmere, because we beat Mk Dons, we have to beat brighton...and so on.

 

So because Norwich have lost like 1 game in 20 odd, they shouldn't loose 2-0 to tranmere tonight?

 

oh. current score - Tranmere 2 - 0 Norwich. 14mins gone.

 

WtF really! that would kind of put our result into perspective wouldn't it? I love football so unpredictable:p

[S-Clarke]

WtF really! that would kind of put our result into perspective wouldn't it? I love football so unpredictable:p

 

now tranmere 3 - 0 Norwich

[doddisalegend]

now tranmere 3 - 0 Norwich

 

Tranmere have had 2 penalties and Norwich are down to 10 men, Tranmere really get the Ref on thier side at home don't they?

[St Landrew]

Now there is sure to be a stewards enquiry with TDD being badly hampered by dark horse St Landrew who quite frankly seems more intent on having a love in than getting involved in the race. TDD not happy !

 

Sorry Chrisobee, had to go off an actually do some proper work away from the computer. Who won, and do we have a 1,2,3..? Perhaps a photo is required to separate them.

 

Enjoyed your input.

[S-Clarke]

Tranmere have had 2 penalties and Norwich are down to 10 men, Tranmere really get the Ref on thier side at home don't they?

 

it's a great game to watch though, it could finish any score at this rate.

[doddisalegend]

it's a great game to watch though, it could finish any score at this rate.

 

Millwall losing to Brentford too. Bloody hell the skys going to fall down next.