Lambert & England

[Turkish]

Oh my, this is meant to be an advanced discussion, there is a World Cup around the corner, he is not going to be playing at a higher level before hand so how the hell can he be seen against better quality? which is what my actual questioned has clearly been confused with, should he be considered to be looked at?

 

Oh and to your latter part of your post, England have'nt won a thing since 1966, with the principal of the best players play for England.

 

Now would you rather have a mediocre Steven Gerrard in CM or James Milner thats been in amazing form?

 

Its the same principal, it is a question as noone, not me, you, delldays, saint devo know if he would be good enough, which is why I ask should he be tested? Lots of other admirers from the Championship have said "we missed out there" and even a Premier League Mr. Moyes is a reported admirer.

 

"Now would you rather have a mediocre Steven Gerrard in CM or James Milner thats been in amazing form?" The difference being both are proven top flight players. Who would you rather have in your team, a mediocre Steven Gerrard or a Dean Hammond in amazing form? That is more of a comparison.

[Tac-tics]

Not when said player is clearly not of an international standard. I said this about Beattie too, when Saints fans on the old forum where hailing Beattie as a pontential Geoff Hurst for the 2004 Euros i said he is not an international player and so it proved, he was shocking when he played for England and clearly out of his depth.

 

Thank god an actual sensible reply, now did you want Beattie to be given a chance? Did you think he could of done a job?before he played against the Kangerooosss?

 

Majority it doesnt work: Andrew Johnson, Beattie, Ashton, Nugent.

 

And I know Swindon is a complete different ball game but no-one would of though Charlie Austin was good enough to be one of the best strikers in League One after playing a crap standard at Poole Town. Its the same prinicipal.

[Turkish]

Thank god an actual sensible reply, now did you want Beattie to be given a chance? Did you think he could of done a job?before he played against the Kangerooosss?

 

Majority it doesnt work: Andrew Johnson, Beattie, Ashton, Nugent.

 

And I know Swindon is a complete different ball game but no-one would of though Charlie Austin was good enough to be one of the best strikers in League One after playing a crap standard at Poole Town. Its the same prinicipal.

 

From a selfish point of view i did because i wanted to be proved right, that Beattie was not, never was, never will be an international player. That said he deserved his chance, because he scored 20+ goal IN TOP FLIGHT which is the difference. Lambert has never even played at the league above let alone two above.

[Tac-tics]

"Now would you rather have a mediocre Steven Gerrard in CM or James Milner thats been in amazing form?" The difference being both are proven top flight players. Who would you rather have in your team, a mediocre Steven Gerrard or a Dean Hammond in amazing form? That is more of a comparison.

 

If Dean Hammond had been getting the rave reviews from every manager in other leagues and putting in performances that are questionable whether he could do a job one day.

 

But that is'nt exactly the same question as Lambert is a striker and putting the ball in the net.

[Thedelldays]

If Dean Hammond had been getting the rave reviews from every manager in other leagues and putting in performances that are questionable whether he could do a job one day.

 

But that is'nt exactly the same question as Lambert is a striker and putting the ball in the net.

where are these reviews...?

[Jonnyboy]

Guys...this is embarrassing

 

says "Rasiak-9" the Polish international legend

[Thedelldays]

says "Rasiak-9" the Polish international legend

im sure you are trying to make a point....yet cant figure what the hell about..?

[Tac-tics]

From a selfish point of view i did because i wanted to be proved right, that Beattie was not, never was, never will be an international player. That said he deserved his chance, because he scored 20+ goal IN TOP FLIGHT which is the difference. Lambert has never even played at the league above let alone two above.

 

 

Which is why I know and think it should'nt happen, however with the drought of quality and goals from English strikers, which Rickie has showed, it wouldnt harm anyone if he can hack it, especially if he wont get the chance in the leagues elsewhere.

[Turkish]

If Dean Hammond had been getting the rave reviews from every manager in other leagues and putting in performances that are questionable whether he could do a job one day.

 

But that is'nt exactly the same question as Lambert is a striker and putting the ball in the net.

 

If its not the same question then why use Gerrard and Milner as an example. Lambert has not been getting rave reviews from "every manager in other leagues" its been reported that one manager in top flight thinks he might be worth a punt as an impact subsitute and a few in the CCC might fancy him.

[Turkish]

Which is why I know and think it should'nt happen, however with the drought of quality and goals from English strikers, which Rickie has showed, it wouldnt harm anyone if he can hack it, especially if he wont get the chance in the leagues elsewhere.

 

So where do you draw the line? Should Matt Tubbs at Salisbury be given the chance, he's proven he can stick the ball in the net in non league, why not give him a run out for England to see if he can do it. Everytime a player in any league hits a bit of form should they be called up? I hope you weren't one of the people that moaned that Sven Goran Erikson made a mockery of friendlies by playing so many players.

[Thedelldays]

why not lallana too..after all, he already has had a prem club bid for him..

[KK the 2nd]

As already mentioned it is reminiscent of the clamour for Steve Bull for England. He was an absolute hero at Wolves in our league, in the equivalent of the championship and in league 2. He scored loads of goals for them, I think topping 50 goals a season a couple of times, but didn't work out at international level. I would be more than happy if Rickie achieved the same as Bull but without the international embarrassment.

Edited 31 March, 2010 by KK the 2nd

[Window Cleaner]

Perhaps there is a need for B internationals after all.

 

 

It is well known that lower league players aren't considered for international selection because the quality of the game in those Leagues is insufficient, Mombaerts said so and so did the Polish coach.Doubt if Capello actually knows that there is professional football outside the top 2 divisions.

 

The "readers" of the Sun were picking the England team when Bull got a couple of games.

[saint_stevo]

it got embarrasing tic-tok. Glad i left work. Lol at saying it didnt work for ashton as well.......injured in training FOR england and never properly recovered, but as you know it all (maybe you debate with the u8's?) i am sure you knew this already

[Turkish]

but as you know it all (maybe you debate with the u8's?) i am sure you knew this already

 

He probably does, as given his logic of sticking in players that are in form at any level and giving them a chance a few of his under 8's might be on the verge of an England call up if they can bang in a couple of goals this weekend.

[Smirking_Saint]

Smirking_Saint,

 

No disrespect

 

Actually answer the questions.

 

I wasn't really having a pop but this is seriously a rediculous thing to say.

 

Football is all about proving your level, step by step in most cases, unless a big team comes and takes a punt on you.

 

It is also all about opinions however the main premise and theories remain the same.

 

Rickie has banged a lot of goals in this season and has looked good, however, there have been times this season when he has been completely none existant in his attack, that happens when he comes across taller more experienced CB's for this league, this is the first case of why he would not cut it at international level, most international CB's would **** all over him.

 

He has also scored a fair amount of his goals from free kicks and penalties, and i am sure he wouldn't really get a look in for these.

 

He has a decent amount of composure, but no pace, something that is seriously needed at the top level. All of the current crop of english target men have more pace than poor rickie.

 

He can score goals, yes he can, but so can Beckford, Austin and so many other players, would Le fondre do ??

 

Christ, i had a season where i scored 46 in 16, does it mean that i could score in any league ?? No, it meant i had not found my level.

 

Whatever you say a striker will only score goals in relation to his opposition and oppurtunities, he has not got the movement nor pace for a top level striker and i believe top level CB's would out head him all game long.

 

We have much better options, and you have my answers.

 

Also, Bent as a target man ?? Are you mental ??

 

I wish you luck with your coaching, i really do, i used to do a bit of work for saints in the community and they wanted me to go on further, i thought about it, but you are never going to change english footballs philosophy, Brazil works because of their philosophy, and the way they coach. Holland creates so many techincally gifted players because of their coaching techniques (which was the way i tried to coach but not how the community coaches wanted).

 

In one breath you can argue you perhaps have more of an insight into the game than me, on another you create this arguement about Lambert and it doesn't add up, i can almost see the points you are trying to make, but it will never happen at this level.

[saint-crinny]

Lambert - top draw in L1, good in the CCC, unsure of him in the Prem

 

I love Lambert and I'm sure that he will do a great job for us over next couple of seasons. With the right players around him at Prem level he may cut it, but think he would have to improve a fair bit - his display against Swindon recently for example would suggest he is a long way off.

 

Also for England, surely Capello would look at someone like Kevin Davies if he was looking at a lambert-style player.

 

Having said all that, it is bloody marvellous to dream about this and I would bank on him above almost anyone in current England squad to slam home a penalty when it mattered!!!

[LGTL]

Thank god an actual sensible reply, now did you want Beattie to be given a chance? Did you think he could of done a job?before he played against the Kangerooosss?

 

Majority it doesnt work: Andrew Johnson, Beattie, Ashton, Nugent.

 

And I know Swindon is a complete different ball game but no-one would of though Charlie Austin was good enough to be one of the best strikers in League One after playing a crap standard at Poole Town. Its the same prinicipal.

 

I'd say the jump from League 1 to World Cup is just a bit bigger than Non-League to League 1...

[Smirking_Saint]

I'd say the jump from League 1 to World Cup is just a bit bigger than Non-League to League 1...

 

spot on.

 

I would even argue league 1 to CCC is as bigger gulf as non league to league 1.

 

And CCC to prem even larger.

[Tac-tics]

Well thanks, I dont think he is good enough, and in answer your question the cut of point is the Premier League, with it being so short in form and quality this season, I just wanted to question if the cut off point should or could be moved?

 

I may not think he is good enough but I certainly would have him include in a national pool of players if things carry on as they are.

 

Saint_Stevo please dont confuse the fact that I have said I've got a few shiny certificates which makes me think I am the next Alex Ferguson and please dont question my experiance and then mock it lado.

 

Anyone who has thought this thread is me saying " I want Rickie Lambert to play for England" is ludicrous, it was regarding your opions on whether he should be considered.

 

There are no current recogniseable strikers in the Championship who are bang on form which is why it was questioned. Yes the gulf between League One,Non League etc is amssive, I tried to make that point, it was the principal of him being 'possibly' the nest best thing. So please excuse anything that may be considered lairy or ignorance as I feel this question has been mis understood.

 

As for Darren Bent, that was a typo mistako.

 

Now another question, in which Turkish, Saint Devo, Smirking Saint and Delldays I would be most interested in your opinions:

 

Could he hack it in the Premier League?

What team would he be best suited for?Long ball - Bolton or Footballing Arsenal etc?

Edited 31 March, 2010 by Tac-tics

[Weston Super Saint]

 

I hope you are joking.

 

A player of 28 years old that has never played above the 3rd Tier of English football.

 

Name some weirder things that have happened in football?

 

Walcott going to the world cup final

[Tac-tics]

So where do you draw the line? Should Matt Tubbs at Salisbury be given the chance, he's proven he can stick the ball in the net in non league, why not give him a run out for England to see if he can do it. Everytime a player in any league hits a bit of form should they be called up? I hope you weren't one of the people that moaned that Sven Goran Erikson made a mockery of friendlies by playing so many players.

 

I'll admit that I did use to get frustrated at the Sven for it I wont lie, I also believe its a shame that B internationals are'nt as frequent, why not have a B team play the same night as the A team coached by Pearce or co? I know the culture has changed and football has, but it is a shame.

[Smirking_Saint]

Well thanks, I dont think he is good enough, and in answer your question the cut of point is the Premier League, with it being so short in form and quality this season, I just wanted to question if the cut off point should or could be moved?

 

I may not think he is good enough but I certainly would have him include in a national pool of players if things carry on as they are.

 

Saint_Stevo please dont confuse the fact that I have said I've got a few shiny certificates which makes me think I am the next Alex Ferguson and please dont question my experiance and then mock it lado.

 

Anyone who has thought this thread is me saying " I want Rickie Lambert to play for England" is ludicrous, it was regarding your opions on whether he should be considered.

 

There are no current recogniseable strikers in the Championship who are bang on form which is why it was questioned. Yes the gulf between League One,Non League etc is amssive, I tried to make that point, it was the principal of him being 'possibly' the nest best thing. So please excuse anything that may be considered lairy or ignorance as I feel this question has been mis understood.

 

As for Darren Bent, that was a typo mistako.

 

Now another question, in which Turkish, Saint Devo, Smirking Saint and Delldays I would be most interested in your opinions:

 

Could he hack it in the Premier League?

What team would he be best suited for?Long ball - Bolton or Footballing Arsenal etc?

 

It's a long way off, he perhaps could do a job in the Premiership but it is too early to tell really.

 

The more i see him the more i think he has been underated, however i think Pards has managed to get a bit more out of him by slimming him down.

 

Personally, like is said previously, i think he would be out played by premier league CB's, he is not quite there yet, his movement is not top level quality and at times as i said he is out headed by bigger, experianced center halves, for example i wouldn't give him much chance against Jardi and Fonte.

 

If he were to go into the prem it would be for a team at the lower end of the table, perhaps Hull etc, Stoke might take him on mind.

[Doctoroncall]

Walcott going to the world cup final

 

Thank goodness as it was one of the few times I actually took money off the bookies having got decent odds at christmas time before the WC!

 

As for Lambert, he's one of those players that utilises his skills well, has generally more than one way of playing so will get more goals than most one dimensional strikers (e.g. quick or target man). Having said that, his lack of pace will be found out at both Champ and Prem level, he maybe able to adapt better as he seems to have more footballing nause than most players. I don't think he should be considered for England.

 

If Bent makes the England squad then it will show how few attacking options we have, I would prefer to take an extra attack minded midfielder than waste a space on a one dimensional just about adequate prem striker.

[Turkish]

 

Now another question, in which Turkish, Saint Devo, Smirking Saint and Delldays I would be most interested in your opinions:

 

Could he hack it in the Premier League?

What team would he be best suited for?Long ball - Bolton or Footballing Arsenal etc?

 

Well Alan Pardew seems to think he could cut it in the premier league, so i will bow to his superior knowledge on that score. He certainly didn't look out of his depth against a poor Pompey side. IMO he does lack pace, but he is strong, has a good first touch, powerful, a great shot on him and a good footballing brain, so I think he could maybe be a squad player at a premier league side but i dont think he'd be regular first 11 material. In that league it would be a physical side that he would fit in best, funnily enough looking at Zlatan Ibrahimovic last night you could draw comparisions with Lambert playing for a footballing side like Arsenal, ZI is a big, strong striker and doesn't suit Barca's style of play, what he does give them though is something a bit different from when they had Henry, Eto etc in the squad, so maybe there is room for RL at a football side?

[Turkish]

 

Personally, like is said previously, i think he would be out played by premier league CB's, he is not quite there yet, his movement is not top level quality and at times as i said he is out headed by bigger, experianced center halves, for example i wouldn't give him much chance against Jardi and Fonte.

 

If he were to go into the prem it would be for a team at the lower end of the table, perhaps Hull etc, Stoke might take him on mind.

 

Both times i have seen up play Norwich this season he has struggled against Gary Docherty, a Centre half who i rate alongside Fonte & Kisnorbo as the best in this league and would be one of the better ones on the CCC

[Smirking_Saint]

Both times i have seen up play Norwich this season he has struggled against Gary Docherty, a Centre half who i rate alongside Fonte & Kisnorbo as the best in this league and would be one of the better ones on the CCC

 

My point exactly.

 

Now compare those 3 CB's against prem standard CB's.

 

He would need to improve

[alpine_saint]

None of our players called up by England in the last 20-odd years, have been the same when they have returned from international duty.

 

MLT was down after the Russia "B" joke

 

Surman was cack

 

Beattie was an arrogant arse.

 

I'd rather Lambert didnt get anywhere near the England team.

[rolosfc]

Seriously I love Rickie but this thread is absolutely ridiculous!

[SNSUN]

None of our players called up by England in the last 20-odd years, have been the same when they have returned from international duty.

 

MLT was down after the Russia "B" joke

 

Surman was cack

 

Beattie was an arrogant arse.

 

I'd rather Lambert didnt get anywhere near the England team.

 

Agree there, as even Mellis lost form after international duty.

[Latics Fan]

What a thread.

 

Sean Gregan should get a call up for centre back while we're at it. And Grant Holt, he's banging them in for Norwich.

[samoakley]

I thought this but if lambert was on 30 goals plus in the championship i would say yes he should as i think he is better then carol who hes rumoured to be looking at if we get any injurys.

 

If he was proven at championship level he would be but hes not yet i rekon lallana is the only play we have who may make a england team one day or antinto if they carry on there form and do it in the championship so they can then move to a prem team or hopefully we our there.

[saint_stevo]

Well thanks, I dont think he is good enough, and in answer your question the cut of point is the Premier League, with it being so short in form and quality this season, I just wanted to question if the cut off point should or could be moved?

 

I may not think he is good enough but I certainly would have him include in a national pool of players if things carry on as they are.

 

Saint_Stevo please dont confuse the fact that I have said I've got a few shiny certificates which makes me think I am the next Alex Ferguson and please dont question my experiance and then mock it lado.

 

Anyone who has thought this thread is me saying " I want Rickie Lambert to play for England" is ludicrous, it was regarding your opions on whether he should be considered.

 

There are no current recogniseable strikers in the Championship who are bang on form which is why it was questioned. Yes the gulf between League One,Non League etc is amssive, I tried to make that point, it was the principal of him being 'possibly' the nest best thing. So please excuse anything that may be considered lairy or ignorance as I feel this question has been mis understood.

 

As for Darren Bent, that was a typo mistako.

 

Now another question, in which Turkish, Saint Devo, Smirking Saint and Delldays I would be most interested in your opinions:

 

Could he hack it in the Premier League?

What team would he be best suited for?Long ball - Bolton or Footballing Arsenal etc?

 

Probably not, No.

 

If he did go to any premier league side, it would be someone like Wigan, Bolton or Hull IMO, a long ball side (as we seem to be these days) with him as the target man

[Turkish]

Hammond has scored tonight, Gerrard hasn't, i know which one should be picked for the next England squad based on their form over the last 45 minutes. Are you watching fabio???

[dune]

For a club like Saints it's always bad news when one of our players gets picked for England. As soon as they get chatting to the Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea players they want out.

[Smirking_Saint]

Not drunk yet Dune ??

[Turkish]

For a club like Saints it's always bad news when one of our players gets picked for England. As soon as they get chatting to the Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea players they want out.

 

well based on this thread we are ****ed as most of our squad are in form and about to be called up, well if tic tak has his way in his restructuring of football from grass roots up.

[dune]

Not drunk yet Dune ??

 

no i'm currently in re hab.

[JackFrost]

From a selfish point of view i did because i wanted to be proved right, that Beattie was not, never was, never will be an international player. That said he deserved his chance, because he scored 20+ goal IN TOP FLIGHT which is the difference. Lambert has never even played at the league above let alone two above.

 

Beattie looked average when he played for England against Liechtenstein. He didn't look a threat all game and in his only chance hit the bar from 3 yards out.

 

Until Lambert is doing what he is currently doing in the PL there is no debate

[Justin C]

This is silly please stop. If you really believe this then you know nothing about football.

 

Lets take off our red and White glasses.

 

I think Ricky is great but lets keep it real.

[Turkish]

This is silly please stop. If you really believe this then you know nothing about football.

 

Lets take off our red and White glasses.

 

I think Ricky is great but lets keep it real.

 

Dont be so arrogant Justin C, tic tac, a 19 year old coach of an under 8's team and has done a refeering course, is on a mission to restructure football from grass roots up and part of his grand plan is that any player on form in any league should be given a run out in international friendlies. That is a major reason why Brazil have been the world champions 5 (?) times and England have always failed at international level. They have a history of picking players from the Brazilian 3rd tier and putting them in the international side after a decent run of games, didn't you know? People like us that arrogantly think we know it all and that those that dont agree with us know nothing about football are also part of the reason for the lack of success of the English national team.

[Tac-tics]

Please show me where I have said Lambert should play for England?

 

It not part of my grand plan, I'd happily go to work and finish in the pub after, its an incentive the FA have set up and in my job I have a fair bit involvement, now please, pipe down with the ignorance.

 

Where have I said that ANY form player in the ANY league should play?, If we're lacking in quality and form in the top league, do we not look elsewhere? - yet again another question.

 

Such a shame that you fail to grasp such an easy question.

 

I've not for one second suggested he should be playing for England, I ASKED should he be looked at?

 

Oh and Turkish, you're a ****

Edited 2 April, 2010 by Tac-tics

[RedAndWhite91]

I suspect the OP was a bit tongue in cheek and some of you have taken it far too seriously.

[Turkish]

Please show me where I have said Lambert should play for England?

 

It not part of my grand plan, I'd happily go to work and finish in the pub after, its an incentive the FA have set up and in my job I have a fair bit involvement, now please, pipe down with the ignorance.

 

Where have I said that ANY form player in the ANY league should play?, If we're lacking in quality and form in the top league, do we not look elsewhere? - yet again another question.

 

Such a shame that you fail to grasp such an easy question.

 

I've not for one second suggested he should be playing for England, I ASKED should he be looked at?

 

Oh and Turkish, you're a ****

 

I dont see what your point is then. You say on the one hand should he be looked at, he could do a better job than half the premier league strikers etc then say you dont think he is good enough and shouldn't play for England, so you have answered your own, quite pointless, question.

[Turkish]

another one for an England call up tactic? As he has been getting rave reviews and won the FL1 player of the month award surely he is a shoe in for the next England friendly?

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/lea...,10794,00.html

 

And how about Kenny Jacket for England manager if Fabio quits or doesn't win us the world cup. It's going to be a toss up between him and Chris Houghton at Newcastle as they are only English managers to have any chance of winning anything this season.

Edited 4 April, 2010 by Turkish

[Tac-tics]

Not the sharpest tool in the box are you.

 

as for that matter, one of my under 8's scored a cracker last week, I'll email Fab and co.

 

Read the actual questions I posted.

[SuperMikey]

another one for an England call up tactic? As he has been getting rave reviews and won the FL1 player of the month award surely he is a shoe in for the next England friendly?

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/lea...,10794,00.html

 

And how about Kenny Jacket for England manager if Fabio quits or doesn't win us the world cup. It's going to be a toss up between him and Chris Houghton at Newcastle as they are only English managers to have any chance of winning anything this season.

 

Shut up you boring little c*nt. Every football club has it's annoying fans, but you take the proverbial biscuit.

[JackFrost]

Can someone close this ridiculous thread?

 

Probably the best post of this thread TBH

[Turkish]

Not the sharpest tool in the box are you.

 

as for that matter, one of my under 8's scored a cracker last week, I'll email Fab and co.

 

Read the actual questions I posted.

 

"Should Capello and co be casting an eye over here?"

 

Was this not your original question? You then go on several times to suggest he should be looked and also that he could do a job better than half the premier league strikers. Then when no one agrees with your quite bizarre suggestion backtrack and say you actually dont think he should play for England anyway, thus answering your own question, no he shouldn't be looked at because he is blatently not an international standard player. Not the sharpest tool in the box are you.

Edited 4 April, 2010 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Shut up you boring little c*nt. Every football club has it's annoying fans, but you take the proverbial biscuit.

 

ohhhh, Supermikey sticking his two pennies worth in. I'm deeply offended by your comment, i'm not little at all you cheeky ****.

Edited 4 April, 2010 by Turkish