Thank heavens the JPT journey is over this weekend

[Legod Third Coming]

If we want to create positive momentum from Wembley, we have to break the Pardew tendency for safety first, give it a right positive go and then take that forward every match. We have to give it our best shot to win every match, not just long ball to scrabble a few wins and fail in the end wishing we had given it everything. We might fail but we needn't look back if we do.

 

I happen to think that it is Pardew's negative approach with arguably the best squad in the division that is getting up Nicola Cortese's nose. It may well cost him his job if he doesn't go for it.

 

Second highest scorers in the division. Yep negative as hell...

[eurosaint]

Second highest scorers in the division. Yep negative as hell...

Please don't let the facts interfere with his opinion, eh ??

[derry]

What a pompous arse you are as well as a clueless dinosaur.

 

Whatever!

[dune]

derry is dave merrington in case you didn't know.

[Scudamore]

Derry is a firm believer in bullsh:t baffles brains.

[Legod Third Coming]

I love the fact that people laud Ferguson for playing 4-5-1 as 'attacking' but Pardew playing 4-4-2 and scoring something like 18 goals in seven games is negative. Totallly bonkers, never read such total crap in all my days.

[View From The Top]

I love the fact that people laud Ferguson for playing 4-5-1 as 'attacking' but Pardew playing 4-4-2 and scoring something like 18 goals in seven games is negative. Totallly bonkers, never read such total crap in all my days.

 

It's because he has coaching badges and therefore understands the game don't you know.

[Give it to Ron]

It's because he has coaching badges and therefore understands the game don't you know.[/Quote]

 

So tell us why we failed to beat Brighton, Exeter, Brentford, Millwall, Tranmere, Swindon, Wycombe ?? 7 games which we failed to win which is surprising considering we are such attractive attacking football?

[doddisalegend]

My lad plays Saturday morning so don't get the chance to go away much but based on recent home games like Swindon and Hartlepool we did drag the wide midfielders in.

I am not suggesting we go back to the Paine/Sydenham era as its a totally different game now although what I would give for Big Ron again ;-).

The other night especially we never had any space or for our centre midfield to pass to - I lost count in the first half Morgan looked up ready to spray wide but had to turn back or short sideways as we had no outlet or we resort to aimless hoof to Lambert.

Teams come to St Marys and cram the centre - our first goal came from the first time Papa was actually wide and not through the centre - Hammond kept coming in the centre as well.

We beat Leeds and Huddersfield playing wide....why did we change that against Swindon???

 

I like Pardew...want him to stay but am getting a bit worried about some of his tactics in games. Harding is our best left back and attacking option - dont move him to the wrong side move the player you are bringing in.

Wotton or Perry could of even played right back against H'pool hardly world beaters - believe James is injured.

 

True but that was the point we changed to 4-4-2 from 4-3-1-2 AP noted he had made a mistake and changed the formation becuase it was to narrow a minute later we had a goal good work by AP I'd say. As for Harding it's not a tactical change but one made becuase we don't have a better option I didn't see Harding on tuesday but he played well enough when I saw him against the Dons a LB playing at RB is better than CM playing at RB not perfect but better.

[countysaint]

I'm with Alpine on this. I went to the JPT games against my better judgement, and I loved the last minute equaliser against Norwich, but I'm struggling to get over excited about the Wembley final. I'm sure it will be a great day, but the painting competition is not a real final in my eyes and I'd even swap a win on Sunday for a defeat in the play offs.

Did you mean a defeat on Sunday for a win in the Playoffs

[doddisalegend]

So tell us why we failed to beat Brighton, Exeter, Brentford, Millwall, Tranmere, Swindon, Wycombe ?? 7 games which we failed to win which is surprising considering we are such attractive attacking football?

 

Maybe becuase these teams aren't the push overs people think they are. We are not EPL anymore these teams are our level we are not as far ahead of them as people think.

[Give it to Ron]

True but that was the point we changed to 4-4-2 from 4-3-1-2 AP noted he had made a mistake and changed the formation becuase it was to narrow a minute later we had a goal good work by AP I'd say. As for Harding it's not a tactical change but one made becuase we don't have a better option I didn't see Harding on tuesday but he played well enough when I saw him against the Dons a LB playing at RB is better than CM playing at RB not perfect but better.

 

But thats exactly my point....why start him in the middle? He is probably our only player with pace and playing in a congested middle was never going to work when in so many games we scream for width. We were brilliant with it against Huddersfield.

 

Sorry I disagree about the Harding to RB - he has been probably our best player in so many games this season but his threat is nullified playing on the right as he has to come into the congested middle to get on his left foot.

He did Ok but IMO we had better options-Perry for example.

 

Anyway we got away with it the other night against a very poor Hartlepool side - we may not on Sunday. Hopefully we can get James fit.

[Give it to Ron]

Maybe becuase these teams aren't the push overs people think they are. We are not EPL anymore these teams are our level we are not as far ahead of them as people think.

 

Sorry that is utter pants...no-one really thinks that anymore - I never go to SMS expecting us to do anything other than have a hard battle.

I have seen us far to long to do anything else.

[Legod Third Coming]

So tell us why we failed to beat Brighton, Exeter, Brentford, Millwall, Tranmere, Swindon, Wycombe ?? 7 games which we failed to win which is surprising considering we are such attractive attacking football?

 

Tell me why Exeter beat Leeds, Brentford beat Norwich and Wycombe beat Millwall.

 

Could it be because football is not a fecking science?

[derry]

It's because he has coaching badges and therefore understands the game don't you know.

 

I take it you don't believe that formal training courses teach anything you can't pick up as a fan.

 

Of course it gives a different perspective. It is my view we play badly when we compact the midfield and the evidence supports that.

 

And for those pontificating about the merits or otherwise of apparently the only systems they know 4-4-2/4-3-3/4-5-1/4-3-1-2 maybe reading 'Inverting The Pyramid' by Jonathon Wilson would be an education, but then standing in the Northam singing, is education enough.

[doddisalegend]

Sorry that is utter pants...no-one really thinks that anymore - I never go to SMS expecting us to do anything other than have a hard battle.

I have seen us far to long to do anything else.

 

Quite so why are you surprised we didn't beat all those teams?

[View From The Top]

I take it you don't believe that formal training courses teach anything you can't pick up as a fan.

 

Of course it gives a different perspective. It is my view we play badly when we compact the midfield and the evidence supports that.

 

And for those pontificating about the merits or otherwise of apparently the only systems they know 4-4-2/4-3-3/4-5-1/4-3-1-2 maybe reading 'Inverting The Pyramid' by Jonathon Wilson would be an education, but then standing in the Northam singing, is education enough.

 

Prehaps some of us have played to a very high level of non league football.

 

Prehaps some of us have FA badges.

 

Prehaps some of us don't believe that makes us the font of all knowledge.

 

Prehaps some of us understand that you spout ******s.

[View From The Top]

So tell us why we failed to beat Brighton, Exeter, Brentford, Millwall, Tranmere, Swindon, Wycombe ?? 7 games which we failed to win which is surprising considering we are such attractive attacking football?

 

Oh noes, we didn't win all of our football matches.

 

Every other team in the world, including Barca, win every single game they play.

[Give it to Ron]

Tell me why Exeter beat Leeds, Brentford beat Norwich and Wycombe beat Millwall.

 

Could it be because football is not a fecking science?

 

WTF has science got to do with the 7 games I mentioned ....no-one expects us to win everygame - even the best get beaten by minnows who work twice as hard and get the breaks.

But just maybe we get our tactics wrong on a few occasions like Swindon and the other night?

[derry]

Tell me why Exeter beat Leeds, Brentford beat Norwich and Wycombe beat Millwall.

 

Could it be because football is not a fecking science?

 

Or maybe it's teams like Brighton doing their homework and turning over teams who think they only have to turn up.

[derry]

Prehaps some of us have played to a very high level of non league football.

 

Prehaps some of us have FA badges.

 

Prehaps some of us don't believe that makes us the font of all knowledge.

 

Prehaps some of us understand that you spout ******s.

 

If you had done any of that you wouldn't have to resort to being so bloody obnoxious.

[doddisalegend]

But thats exactly my point....why start him in the middle? He is probably our only player with pace and playing in a congested middle was never going to work when in so many games we scream for width. We were brilliant with it against Huddersfield.

 

Sorry I disagree about the Harding to RB - he has been probably our best player in so many games this season but his threat is nullified playing on the right as he has to come into the congested middle to get on his left foot.

He did Ok but IMO we had better options-Perry for example.

 

Anyway we got away with it the other night against a very poor Hartlepool side - we may not on Sunday. Hopefully we can get James fit.

 

Ummmm Perry verses pacy wingers, no I don't think so. Also Perry would give us nothing going forward. I agree with you Harding is class best bargin of the season but we really don't have a better option we have two decent left backs in Mills and Harding and no right backs what AP is doing makes sense is not ideal but really is the best we can do. Harding at right back still looks better than James at right back. With Morgan out I'd rather have James playing CM where he belongs.

[sadoldgit]

Is this thread for real? After the last few years of losing and relegation finally something goes right and this is how it is perceived, as a distraction and thank goodness it will be over soon?

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

Lets just hope we get thumped eh to put some icing on the cake!

[chrisobee]

Prehaps some of us have played to a very high level of non league football.

 

Prehaps some of us have FA badges.

 

Prehaps some of us don't believe that makes us the font of all knowledge.

 

Prehaps some of us understand that you spout ******s.

 

Indeed perhaps some of us have attended 1000's of games and seen even more on TV, played to a decent level, refereed games etc, etc ;

But definitely most of us don't treat our fellow fans with contempt, don't think we know it all and don't prove the rule that you can't deal with stupidity.

[Legod Third Coming]

WTF has science got to do with the 7 games I mentioned ....no-one expects us to win everygame - even the best get beaten by minnows who work twice as hard and get the breaks.

But just maybe we get our tactics wrong on a few occasions like Swindon and the other night?

 

We are in promotion form. We haven't won every game. Who has pray? And how did they fathom beating luck and guaranteeing every decision and result?

 

The results say Pardew is getting it right more than wrong. Give him some credit. And also give some credit to other players and managers who, funnily enough, are also trying to win football matches...

[Legod Third Coming]

Or maybe it's teams like Brighton doing their homework and turning over teams who think they only have to turn up.

 

That's right, that's why Brighton are top of the league, thanks to tactical genius...

 

For a bloke who claims to know football I hope you have some other hobbies.

[Give it to Ron]

Ummmm Perry verses pacy wingers, no I don't think so. Also Perry would give us nothing going forward. I agree with you Harding is class best bargin of the season but we really don't have a better option we have two decent left backs in Mills and Harding and no right backs what AP is doing makes sense is not ideal but really is the best we can do. Harding at right back still looks better than James at right back. With Morgan out I'd rather have James playing CM where he belongs.

 

But they didn't have any pacey wingers - both their goals came down our left side I seem to remember and Fish had a poor game.

He hardly got forward and certainly didn't deliver many telling crosses like Dan does.

I would prefer Wotton at right back than in midfield ;-) if it means Dan can play at left back - 1 weak poition rather than 2 like the other night.

I think James is struggling so we may see Gillet....bit small for a full back though ;-)

[derry]

Indeed perhaps some of us have attended 1000's of games and seen even more on TV, played to a decent level, refereed games etc, etc ;

But definitely most of us don't treat our fellow fans with contempt, don't think we know it all and don't prove the rule that you can't deal with stupidity.

 

I have tried to explain but continually get flak from the same posters who don't attempt to explain their view but resort to sarcasm etc rather than lay down a reasoned tactical alternative view.

[View From The Top]

If you had done any of that you wouldn't have to resort to being so bloody obnoxious.

 

 

Yeah right, it was all a Dallas type dream and none of it really happened.

 

Still, oh Oracle, your way is bound to be taken up by the whole world now what with your record in management.

[derry]

That's right, that's why Brighton are top of the league, thanks to tactical genius...

 

For a bloke who claims to know football I hope you have some other hobbies.

 

Short memory, Pardew set up for two big strikers but they turned with two little pacy strikers who tore us apart. Poyet did his homework and outwitted us.

[derry]

Yeah right, it was all a Dallas type dream and none of it really happened.

 

Still, oh Oracle, your way is bound to be taken up by the whole world now what with your record in management.

 

Carry on singing.

[Give it to Ron]

We are in promotion form. We haven't won every game. Who has pray? And how did they fathom beating luck and guaranteeing every decision and result?

 

The results say Pardew is getting it right more than wrong. Give him some credit. And also give some credit to other players and managers who, funnily enough, are also trying to win football matches...

 

If you bothered to read my posts you would of seen I posted I like Pardew and want him to stay.....we were brilliant against Huddersfield and Leeds but that doesn't stop me worrying in some games he seems to get things wrong like Swindon.

That's not heresey its just my opinion and the way I see it and post on a football forum.

 

To respond to SOG....at least we now only moan about the football and not what happening in the boardroom or how many Klingons we have on the starboard bow.

[Legod Third Coming]

If you bothered to read my posts you would of seen I posted I like Pardew and want him to stay.....we were brilliant against Huddersfield and Leeds but that doesn't stop me worrying in some games he seems to get things wrong like Swindon.

That's not heresey its just my opinion and the way I see it and post on a football forum.

 

To respond to SOG....at least we now only moan about the football and not what happening in the boardroom or how many Klingons we have on the starboard bow.

 

He's 36 games into his career with Southampton. And he's expected to win every game? His tactics at Wycombe were not wrong.

 

He started with Antonio out wide - the width we apparently crave. Antonio played like a dog.

 

We had no midfield control, he put another midfielder on the pitch. Sadly it was Paul Wotton. The guy next to me bet me a fiver we would now improve, I wish I'd taken his money!!! We were woeful.

 

Lallana missed a sitter, everyone played crap.

 

What is Pardew supposed to do about that?

 

I didn't see Swindon so can't comment.

 

But this idea Pardew can get it right every game is madness. The sooner people stop believing it's possible, the better for them.

[doddisalegend]

But they didn't have any pacey wingers - both their goals came down our left side I seem to remember and Fish had a poor game. He hardly got forward and certainly didn't deliver many telling crosses like Dan does.

I would prefer Wotton at right back than in midfield ;-) if it means Dan can play at left back - 1 weak poition rather than 2 like the other night.

I think James is struggling so we may see Gillet....bit small for a full back though ;-)

 

Well thats the problem, Mills was steady if unspectacular against the Dons and we kept a clean sheet. To think that we've got through two proper RBs and two makeshift RBs in one season is a real kick in the teeth must be some sort of curse on saints rightbacks this season:(

[Give it to Ron]

He's 36 games into his career with Southampton. And he's expected to win every game? His tactics at Wycombe were not wrong.

 

 

I didn't see Swindon so can't comment.

 

But this idea Pardew can get it right every game is madness. The sooner people stop believing it's possible, the better for them.

 

Again where have I said that....again I will re-iterate my view as to why and thats because we go too narrow and too often like against Swindon and Hartlepool.

Why did we start like that when in the previous games we had a great game plan, width and beating decent teams (Huddersfield was an absolute dream game and the best match I have seen in years) yet resorted to the narrow plan that fails us on too many occasions.

[Legod Third Coming]

Again where have I said that....again I will re-iterate my view as to why and thats because we go too narrow and too often like against Swindon and Hartlepool.

Why did we start like that when in the previous games we had a great game plan, width and beating decent teams (Huddersfield was an absolute dream game and the best match I have seen in years) yet resorted to the narrow plan that fails us on too many occasions.

 

Sadly I missed Huddersfield because I was away working, but against Hartlepool we were not narrow to Pardew's intention. Puncheon simply refused to go outside, Waigo did. But it didn't matter, Puncheon created a goal when he cut inside.

 

I think you old timers are stuck in the past. I couldn't name a single team that plays with wide men who hug the line and swing the ball in from the bye-line. Most modern managers like wingers/wide players who play on their wrong foot and cut inside. Don't ask me why.

 

I watched us tear Wallsall apart with both Lallana and Puncheon playing inside and swapping sides. I don't remember them getting to the bye-line once.

 

But the point is still, we are winning more than losing. On eight game form we are the second best team in the division. Pardew won't get it right every game but the idea he is negative or tactically inept is cobblers. He has made more successful substitutions than any manager I have seen at Saints since Lawrie.

[doddisalegend]

Again where have I said that....again I will re-iterate my view as to why and thats because we go too narrow and too often like against Swindon and Hartlepool.

Why did we start like that when in the previous games we had a great game plan, width and beating decent teams (Huddersfield was an absolute dream game and the best match I have seen in years) yet resorted to the narrow plan that fails us on too many occasions.

 

I do remember reading some where about our scouting and how the management team work out the game plan in advance (If I remember right there's a room at Staplewood full of computers where the players are briefed). Now it's just possible that we set up based on the scouting reports with a game plan and the otherside do something else we're not excpecting leaving us playing the wrong way (such as to narrow) and struggling to change things (I have a feeling this may of been the case on tuesday hence our poor start).

[Give it to Ron]

Sadly I missed Huddersfield because I was away working, but against Hartlepool we were not narrow to Pardew's intention. Puncheon simply refused to go outside, Waigo did. But it didn't matter, Puncheon created a goal when he cut inside.

 

I think you old timers are stuck in the past. I couldn't name a single team that plays with wide men who hug the line and swing the ball in from the bye-line. Most modern managers like wingers/wide players who play on their wrong foot and cut inside. Don't ask me why.

 

I watched us tear Wallsall apart with both Lallana and Puncheon playing inside and swapping sides. I don't remember them getting to the bye-line once.

 

But the point is still, we are winning more than losing. On eight game form we are the second best team in the division. Pardew won't get it right every game but the idea he is negative or tactically inept is cobblers. He has made more successful substitutions than any manager I have seen at Saints since Lawrie.

 

You didnt watch Spuds and Fulham last night then...Bale and Bentley.

 

Shame you missed Huddersfield it was awesome and maybe why I feel like I do now. Width, skill, superb tactics and total domination.

So why did we change that for Swindon and lose momentum we were terrible?

 

As I said I like Pardew.....his substitutions compared to Burley are on a different planet. Also his transfer market dealings have been nothing short of superb.

[Legod Third Coming]

You didnt watch Spuds and Fulham last night then...Bale and Bentley.

 

Shame you missed Huddersfield it was awesome and maybe why I feel like I do now. Width, skill, superb tactics and total domination.

So why did we change that for Swindon and lose momentum we were terrible?

 

As I said I like Pardew.....his substitutions compared to Burley are on a different planet. Also his transfer market dealings have been nothing short of superb.

 

I heard about Huddersfield!!! I'm mightily cheesed missing it.

 

Bale is a great full back and I think Harding could do more of what Bale does. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against width, but that's wasted if you don't have players like Bale with superb delivery.

 

Tbh, as long as we score, I don't care how.

 

Seaborne is the only signing I've yet to be convinced about, but Waigo, Lambert, Harding, Puncheon, Fonte, Barnard, blimey we don't know we're born!!!

[itchen]

And I hope you have a great day out. All of you. And of course the right result...

 

But all the JPT is is a few moments of gratification. The League is the lifeblood of the club. It is immeasurably more important, and I cannot figure professional players being "distracted"

 

Is it? Yes, we'd all like not to be in the Third Division. And we'd all like promotion. But is it "immeasurably" more important. I, like many others, have enjoyed this season more than any in the last few years. We're winning games. We're playing (mainly) attractive football. We have some exciting individual performers. And we're at a Wembley final to which at least 44,000 of us will be going.

 

Compare that to most of our last few seasons in the top flight where we struggled just to stay there, getting beaten week after week. Yes, we were a Premiership club but we were the Premiership club everyone could beat.

 

I's like to see us back uo there, of course, now that we have an owner who might actually let us hang on to our better players instead of flogging them at the first opportunity. But I'm willing to wait for the five years set out when Liebherr bought the club. It would be great of we can make the playofs this year. And I won't gove up believing we can until it's mathematically impossible.

 

But I'm still going to enjoy being part of the biggest ever gathering of Saints fans in a stadium.

[benjii]

derry is dave merrington in case you didn't know.

 

That's rubbish. If he was, his analysis wouldn't extend beyond, "we'll be wanting to score more than them", "we'll not be wanting to concede one".

[saintkiptanui]

Alpine is a benny. I can't f*cin wait for Sunday, you can stick your lower reaches of the premiership up your ballon knot.

[Chez]

Why?

because it would mean we made it to the play offs and for me the two Derby County games were amoungst the best games I have ever been to. Yes it hurt like hell when we lost, but I will never ever forget the feeling when our second went it. I've never pogowed so high in my life and I just know I won't get that sort of buzz in the JPT final unless we go a few down and come back in the second half. Does that ever happen in cup finals? The play off games are on a different level in terms of excitement. The atmosphere both at SMS and at their place was incredible. Second to none and that is hard to find in these days of all seater stadiums etc. The FA cup final has probably spoiled me which is why the JPT final doesn't grab me. Don't get me wrong I am looking forward to Sunday and I will love seeing us win there if we do, but I think the play offs are possibly better equiped to offer me my `football fix'. I may be wrong, I'll let you know if it happens. Enjoy the day. Peace. Edited 25 March, 2010 by Chez

[Scudamore]

Just a little food for thought on this whole width discussion before i go to bed. Aren't we essentially stuck with a very similar problem to that of England. Gerrard is a player too good to leave out of the team but there is also the need to accomodate Lampard, another player too good to be left out. Now playing the two centrally stifles one of the players in their natural attacking tendencies. Capello gets around this by playing Gerrard on the left. But his role is not to hug the touchline, far from it. He is allowed a free rein of the pitch. Because to constrain a player of such natural talent with all he brings to the game would of course be a waste.

 

We have Lallana who whilst obviously not being of Gerrard's level is far too good a player (and at this level a player who can unlock defences) to be left out of the side.

Edited 25 March, 2010 by Scudamore

[benjii]

because it would mean we made it to the play offs and for me the two Derby County games were amoungst the best games I have ever been to. Yes it hurt like hell when we lost, but I will never ever forget the feeling when our second went it. I've never pogowed so high in my life and I just know I won't get that sort of buzz in the JPT final unless we go a few down and come back in the second half. Does that ever happen in cup finals? The play off games are on a different level in terms of excitement. The atmosphere both at SMS and at their place was incredible. Second to none and that is hard to find in these days of all seater stadiums etc. The FA cup final has probably spoiled me which is why the JPT final doesn't grab me. Don't get me wrong I am looking forward to Sunday and I will love seeing us win there if we do, but I think the play offs are possibly better equiped to offer me my `football fix'. I may be wrong, I'll let you know if it happens. Enjoy the day. Peace.

 

Fair points - that away leg was amazing, despite the result.

 

I'll tell you what:

 

JPT win this year

Auto promotion next year

Championship play-offs the year after

 

How does that grab ya

[pele]

Well done Alpine another stupid thread started off by you!

[Chez]

Fair points - that away leg was amazing, despite the result.

 

I'll tell you what:

 

JPT win this year

Auto promotion next year

Championship play-offs the year after

 

How does that grab ya

 

where do I sign. The season has been bloody great. A wembley win would be tremendous. Huddersfield and Swindon away seem so far away now.

[benjii]

where do I sign. The season has been bloody great. A wembley win would be tremendous. Huddersfield and Swindon away seem so far away now.

 

Aye Swindon away reminded me of the times I used to go to early League Cup away ties when we were in the Prem. That sinking feeling that no player is going to do themselves justice, that a less talented team will do you because they're better organised, that the home fans will be talking about beating Southampton. Absolutely gutting.

[Saint in Paradise]

As an ex-Tim ( I can't bring myself to call me Pat ) who can only watch games via the internet or on You Tube

and therefore not allowed to post about how

I think players played I think I am allowed to say how much I have enjoyed this season.

[modern matron]

Yeah, I'm like you Alpy. It will be much better next week when Wembley is in the past and we are instead looking forward to a meaningless league game in the third tier of English football.

 

Does nothing EVER cheer you up? If you won the lottery I'm sure you would moan about the size of the cheque used in the publicity photo was not quite as large as you would have hoped.

 

I really do think you suffer from depression.

 

No he's not ill just bloody miserable.....