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Martin Samuel, Daily Mail on Coretese: "self serving" and a "buffoon"


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Sorry but dont agree. Samuel has picked out bits and pieces and left out the real message that NC was getting across. We should have done better, with the money we have spent and even if we add back on the 10 points we are still some way off of Leeds and Norwich for example, something which we have been discussing on here for weeks. That ueis all NC is getting at, then Samuel brands him as "self serving and a buffoon"! bit harsh imo.

 

More than a bit harsh imo.

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. Cortese does need to calm down and he is impatient but then if he does pull off infusing Saints with ambition, journos like Samuel will be fighting to be first in line to get a quote off him.

 

 

The very reason why NC is a complete breath of fresh air at SMS. Someone with ambition for once, FFS.

 

Look forward to it reaching the "I dont care about the clubs mid-term future, we're off to Wemberlee for the P*ss-pot Final" element of the fan base.

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I think some of what he says has merit, but the style in which he has put it across leaves something to be desired. I can't help feeling that many in the football world (press pundits etc) think Pardew has done a decent Job (not spectacular but decent) in his first season here all things considered, something I happen to agree with. I have to say some of NC comments worry me, being ambitous is fine but it needs to tempered with a slice of realism of how far we've come in the last few months.

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I agree with you 100%...

Don't normally like Martin Samuel but I agree with everything he says in there. He's bang on the money. We did well to get Pardew considering the state we were in last summer. We now need to hang on to him. He will get us up next season. Two years in the Championship and then the Premiership. Cortese's five year plan completed. Easy.
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Don't normally like Martin Samuel but I agree with everything he says in there. He's bang on the money. We did well to get Pardew considering the state we were in last summer. We now need to hang on to him. He will get us up next season. Two years in the Championship and then the Premiership. Cortese's five year plan completed. Easy.

 

Jeez, and Samuel accuses NC for over-simplifying things...:rolleyes:

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West Ham fan Martin Samuel in piece suggesting that ex-West Hammer Alan Pardew might be a good pick for a club higher up the leagues the day after Zola's team get trounced at home. Hmmm. I'm sure there's a connection here but I just can't quite see it. Press conference at 4pm? (joke)

Mind you, Cortese is right - we have thrown away too many points. Samuel is right though with the general sentiment that it takes time to blend a team and that he's doing okay at the mo.

I wouldn't lay bets against Pardew going to West Ham after the cup final is done and dusted.

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If nothing else, this article shows how Cortese's interviews are generally very divisive.

 

All of the impatient and moaney "fans" on here justify their position and rants by pointing to Cortese's comments and accuse everyone else of being ambitious.

 

Pardew is clearly ****ed off with the constant digs from Cortese when we need our Chairman and Manager to have a solid relationship.

 

Not once since arriving here has Cortese praised Pardew or even acknowledged that he is doing a good job.

 

Cortese - like many of the modern internet fans - seems to believe that money guarantees instant success. He spent money in January was was really unhappy that we lost a game in February!

 

There is no doubt from his behaviour to date that Cortese has a huge ego - I would be a bit miffed if I was Markus Liebherr because as far as Cortese is concerned he is just a cash machine - it is Cortese that rescued Saints and it is 100% his project.

 

My own personal opinion is that Cortese resents the adulation that Pardew gets as manager and is therefore keen to knock him down a peg or two in public as well as making sure via his interviews that we are in no doubt who we should be worshipping.

 

Hopefully this is just two big personalities getting to kmow each other and hopefully they can find the right formula for working together as otherwise it will be us fans that lose out - as usual.

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APs career had taken a bit of a dive.

 

He came to Southampton where there were now no financial worries and he was given money to spend.

 

Let's see where we end up at the end of the season.

 

If we are miles adrift from the playoffs and lose the JPT final he may be in trouble

If he is close to the playoffs he will be okay

 

If AP wants to leave where would he go that is fundamentally better that is a club with no debt and money to spend.

 

NC would have a sack load of applications

 

The Daily Mail article is just a story to fill a few blank paragraphs taken from a recorded interview. No insight no new information

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It's an overreaction to an overreaction IMO.

 

Cortese clearly wants to keep AP on his toes, and while I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I personally feel he has been a little too harsh. BUT, I think that initial interview was blown out of porportion and there is nothing to really worry about.

 

Now this response by Samuel seems to be a bit OTT too... to label Cortese as he does is extremely harsh IMO, especially without having met the guy and interviewed him first hand, and ultimately, all Cortese wants is the best for SFC, for which he cannot be criticised.

 

Whether he is being a bit too clinical and harsh on AP is a matter of opinion. As I say, I think he is being, but as long as AP stays I'm happy. I just think the talk of whether he'll leave/be sacked, having done a bloody good job, is a real shame and detracts from the progress made, but we'll see.

 

But back to the article... it's written to get a reaction and it's got one from some people. It's not particularly stunning or incisive journalism and he is clearly trying to provoke a response with the language used, which is all a bit sad really, but it's generally a bit of a non-story IMO,

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APs career had taken a bit of a dive.

 

He came to Southampton where there were now no financial worries and he was given money to spend.

 

Let's see where we end up at the end of the season.

 

If we are miles adrift from the playoffs and lose the JPT final he may be in trouble

If he is close to the playoffs he will be okay

 

If AP wants to leave where would he go that is fundamentally better that is a club with no debt and money to spend.

 

NC would have a sack load of applications

 

The Daily Mail article is just a story to fill a few blank paragraphs taken from a recorded interview. No insight no new information

 

Aye, and the reaction on here is exactly as you would expect - polarised along the lines of ones opinion of the job AP has done so far.

 

I reckon this article is an indirect tapping-up of AP for the West Ham job.

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Christ, if an outsider were to read that, which they obviously will, it will look like NC is a complete c*nt - which IMO he's not.

 

He's out spoken, business like, professional, driven, successful, challenging - yes.

 

But he's also the boss and he can, no, should expect that of his staff too.

 

Good.

 

Have we under achieved this season? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on what criteria you wish to use to define 'under achievement'.

 

For me - no, we haven't under achieved. I expected us to be upper mid table this season and that appears to be where we are heading.

 

I did NOT expect us to be in a cup final (because that's what it is) and so for me - im delighted at what we've achieved this season, and cant wait for next season when we WILL be challenging for the title.

 

So IMO it's right for a manager (of any business) to have a reality check now and again to keep you on your toes and keep wanting to do better.

 

Long may it continue.

 

Some fair points in there Bridgey,although I don't think NC is outspoken;he gives some interviews and says his piece,he does not offer a "rent-a-quote" service that some Chairmen and CEO's make a career out of.I thought he came across very well on Solent,showed ambition and some openness,not arrogance.

 

The danger is of course,that having found the limelight he wants to feature in it more frequently and prominently,although that may only happen if we climb up the leagues.

 

As for achievements,we are in a position many would have expected after all the turmoil,and a position most would gladly have accepted last June/July.

 

Given our spending in January we would have expected better since in the league.NC's comments only mirror supporters views.

 

AP is imo the best candidate that was available last summer,and there are not many - if any- I would prefer to him to lead us into next years challenge.

 

Samuel's article is an attempt to be insightful and humourous about a club most of the prem-dwellers have forgotten about.His one line potted history of our descent is correct,the rest of the article however just a dig at NC for the sake of it.

 

 

 

Well apparently a certain Mr Le Tissier has been sounding off to any one who cares to listen on the subject of Mr Cortese as well.

 

I for one am thankful we have Markus Liebherr as our owner,with NC at the helm, than the ragged arsed Pinnacle consortium with MLT as its figurehead.

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If nothing else, this article shows how Cortese's interviews are generally very divisive.

 

All of the impatient and moaney "fans" on here justify their position and rants by pointing to Cortese's comments and accuse everyone else of being ambitious.

 

Pardew is clearly ****ed off with the constant digs from Cortese when we need our Chairman and Manager to have a solid relationship.

 

Not once since arriving here has Cortese praised Pardew or even acknowledged that he is doing a good job.

 

Cortese - like many of the modern internet fans - seems to believe that money guarantees instant success. He spent money in January was was really unhappy that we lost a game in February!

 

There is no doubt from his behaviour to date that Cortese has a huge ego - I would be a bit miffed if I was Markus Liebherr because as far as Cortese is concerned he is just a cash machine - it is Cortese that rescued Saints and it is 100% his project.

 

My own personal opinion is that Cortese resents the adulation that Pardew gets as manager and is therefore keen to knock him down a peg or two in public as well as making sure via his interviews that we are in no doubt who we should be worshipping.

 

Hopefully this is just two big personalities getting to kmow each other and hopefully they can find the right formula for working together as otherwise it will be us fans that lose out - as usual.

 

Sorry, cant edit but meant un-ambitious.

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I reckon this article is an indirect tapping-up of AP for the West Ham job.

 

Interesting thought.

 

I too have wondered if AP will be in the frame when Zola gets the push.

 

Personally I'm not sure AP would be welcomed back by the Hammers fans,but stand to be corrected,in which case I doubt Gold and Sullivan would want to incur the fans wrath.

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Goodness, is this board dividing into pro and anti Cortese camps already? Whatever happened to the middle ground?

 

Samuel's silly article seems to be quite an irrational attack on Cortese. Pardew has done okay so far (he has at least put to bed the stupidity of people thinking we were in danger of relegation). The target Cortese set was 6th, and in a normal season we'd be well on target for accumulating enough points to get there.

 

Pardew certainly hasn't over-achieved as the jist of Samuel's article implies, but neither has he underachieved as some on here suggest. IMO he is doing okay, nothing more or less.

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Cortese has turned this club around from a business point of view but he is not skilled in football but that can be said for a lot of Chairman.

 

He is taking a hard nose approach towards Pardew and results. He has a target and he is not going to let others fail in that target being reached.

 

There have been rumours (I have heard from two different untrusted sources) that Pardew may be giving up at the end of the season but one of my trusted sources says he has heard nothing but the pressure is immense.

 

Forget what the press say when they are using material from third party interviews. Cortese is far from being a buffoon. The Echo tried to distract him and many more media outlets will try the same.

 

I happen to think Pardew is not the man to take us all the way. There are to many flaws in his game plan but let us see where we are at the end of this season.

 

The proof of the pudding is reaching the Premier within the planned time. Until that target in unreachable let's just enjoy the ride and ignore the praises and criticisms from the media. There is usually some bias feed behind most articles.

 

As for the mail, would not use it to whipe but it is funny when they attack Pompey, and there have been many articles of late, we enjoy but when it attacks our own we are up in arms and call it crap journalism.

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If I'm getting this right, the only thing that's being said here is that Cortese is blaming Pardew for the club not doing as well as he would've expected. Yet in the interview he said "We should have done better."

 

Nowhere does he put the blame on Pardew. It could just as easily be said to be pointed at the players. It could be pointed at himself, for not getting things working more smoothly and making Pardew's job easy enough, it could be at Liebherr. It could be a mixture of all of these things.

 

This journalist has taken the word we and treated it as if he said he. Then quite a few people have been taken in by this and agreed with him. Cortese has said he expected more from the club as a whole, he hasn't pointed the finger at anyone.

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Oh yes, what a terrible job Cortese has done. Definitely comparable to the likes of Gaydamak, Mandaric, Storrie, SaF, Al-Mirage.

 

And he's quite right - what right has a successful banker to come in and lecture us about the finances of football?

 

About as much as you, hypocrite.

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Well apparently a certain Mr Le Tissier has been sounding off to any one who cares to listen on the subject of Mr Cortese as well.

 

I worship, respect and love the job MLT did for Saints as a player.

 

If what you say is true, and considering his involvment with Pinnacle (which I was originally willing to excuse), his contribution to Saints since retiring is now confirmed to be an utter embarassment.

 

NC is the best CEO this club has had in decades. He is keeping the staff on their toes, something that has been badly, badly needed for a long, long time.

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Cortese has turned this club around from a business point of view but he is not skilled in football but that can be said for a lot of Chairman.

 

He is taking a hard nose approach towards Pardew and results. He has a target and he is not going to let others fail in that target being reached.

 

There have been rumours (I have heard from two different untrusted sources) that Pardew may be giving up at the end of the season but one of my trusted sources says he has heard nothing but the pressure is immense.

 

Forget what the press say when they are using material from third party interviews. Cortese is far from being a buffoon. The Echo tried to distract him and many more media outlets will try the same.

 

I happen to think Pardew is not the man to take us all the way. There are to many flaws in his game plan but let us see where we are at the end of this season.

 

The proof of the pudding is reaching the Premier within the planned time. Until that target in unreachable let's just enjoy the ride and ignore the praises and criticisms from the media. There is usually some bias feed behind most articles.

 

As for the mail, would not use it to whipe but it is funny when they attack Pompey, and there have been many articles of late, we enjoy but when it attacks our own we are up in arms and call it crap journalism.

 

Entrusted or untrusted?

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Untrusted. ie I do not know where they got the information from and I am unaware they have any contact with the club. Suspect pub or terrace talk.

 

Would love to know if Cortese was at the Tranmere game though.

 

Fair enough. Thought i'd check. ;-)

 

Can't see it to be honest. With good jobs comes pressure and i'm sure that Pardew appreciates that. It's actually a pretty cushy job Pardew has here.

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I get the impression that the 'Old Boys' club consisting of MLT, Lawrie Mac, Channon, Leon Crouch, Benali etc are all a bit put out by ML and NCs disregard for them and their decision to start again.

I have heard stories involving all of them and all revolving around NC being a very shrewd businessman accommodating no free loaders.

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I just wish that Saints chairmen - and I include them all from Rupert onwards would just learn to STFU!

 

From Wilde's manifesto, Crouch's gaffes to Cortese's unsettling of the manager these pronouncements have not helped one bit.

 

Leave managing to the manager - any criticism should be in private.

 

In fact any comments should be in private.

 

You rarely here a peep on football matters from chairmen of truly successful clubs - do you?

 

Can't remember the Glaziers, Bruce Buck, Peter Hill-Wood or Randy Lerner having much to say.

 

Cortese should learn to keep a low profile.

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I get the impression that the 'Old Boys' club consisting of MLT, Lawrie Mac, Channon, Leon Crouch, Benali etc are all a bit put out by ML and NCs disregard for them and their decision to start again.

I have heard stories involving all of them and all revolving around NC being a very shrewd businessman accommodating no free loaders.

 

Why can't they be a bit more like Merrington and be gracious with what we've got? Aside from our league placing (which will change, in time) we are in one of the most enviable positions in the country...

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Yeah lets blame Samuel, Sports Journalist of the year 2002/ 05/ 06/ 08 and after being headhunted from The Times last year the highest paid sports columnist (note the word columnist, they comment on things that have happened or predict future events, they do not interview so don't blame that for the lack of new or "rehashing" of old quotes) in the UK.

 

Jesus.... Oh, also the Sports department of any national newspaper is completely independent from the news desk with regards editorial content. Paul Dacre at The Mail (whos journalistic stance I hate) let's their Sports editor function on his own. Otherwise they'd never get any interviews/ scoops!

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Why can't they be a bit more like Merrington and be gracious with what we've got? Aside from our league placing (which will change, in time) we are in one of the most enviable positions in the country...

 

 

Merrington doesn't have to pay for his ticket though so he's got every reason to be more gracious.

 

 

I could just hear him on the subject,

 

"What we don't need is to be paying for our tickets".

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Fail to understand what Samuel was looking to achieve with a personal attack on NC because that is all it is, would have thought if he wanted to look in this direction he concentrated on events further down the M27, there would then be a point to the article.

To have a pop at NC, without imo, real grounds to do so smacks of someone nudging him to do the article, quotes such as "we have thrown away too many points" is a fair comment one which I am sure AP would struggle to disagree with.

This article was written with an ulterior motive imo, we, the ones who are really interested, are aware NC is ambitious, its been planted all over here and elsewhere, I for one hope AP can take us where NC and in turn ML want us to be but if they feel he is not the man to do it there is nothing we or Samuel(if genuinely interested) can do but rely on their judgement.

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Yeah lets blame Samuel, Sports Journalist of the year 2002/ 05/ 06/ 08 and after being headhunted from The Times last year the highest paid sports columnist (note the word columnist, they comment on things that have happened or predict future events, they do not interview so don't blame that for the lack of new or "rehashing" of old quotes) in the UK.

 

Jesus.... Oh, also the Sports department of any national newspaper is completely independent from the news desk with regards editorial content. Paul Dacre at The Mail (whos journalistic stance I hate) let's their Sports editor function on his own. Otherwise they'd never get any interviews/ scoops!

Actually, even columnists can pick up the phone and interview the subject of their rants. And they do. Sports departments of newspapers are still under the jurisdiction of the editor, so are not completely independent. And even award-winning journalists can get things wrong.

Hope that helps.

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I worship, respect and love the job MLT did for Saints as a player.

 

If what you say is true, and considering his involvment with Pinnacle (which I was originally willing to excuse), his contribution to Saints since retiring is now confirmed to be an utter embarassment.

 

NC is the best CEO this club has had in decades. He is keeping the staff on their toes, something that has been badly, badly needed for a long, long time.

 

Could not agree more.

 

A man with a plan and the drive to see it through rather than the hideous decisions and inertia all too commonly found with his predecessors.

 

NC will do for me!

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It appears the aritcle was written following NC's interview with Solent... second hand journalism again.

 

I presume we've all heard that in full?

 

Is the article a fair reflection of the interview ? No IMO

 

Do care I what the Mail says anyway? No.

K.

 

Took the words out of my mouth. Couldn't care less what this sensationalist rag has to say.

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I just wish that Saints chairmen - and I include them all from Rupert onwards would just learn to STFU!

 

From Wilde's manifesto, Crouch's gaffes to Cortese's unsettling of the manager these pronouncements have not helped one bit.

 

Leave managing to the manager - any criticism should be in private.

 

In fact any comments should be in private.

 

You rarely here a peep on football matters from chairmen of truly successful clubs - do you?

 

Can't remember the Glaziers, Bruce Buck, Peter Hill-Wood or Randy Lerner having much to say.

 

Cortese should learn to keep a low profile.

 

Very unfair, imo.

 

Cortese doesnt sit in the squad photo or turn up at Staplewood with "NC" stitched onto a team tracksuit. He also isnt playing power games to manoeuvre himself into a position of influence at the FA, and there is no indication of him manipulating the press.

 

What he has done is given a couple of fairly straight interviews since he arrived. Interviews, I might add, that indicate he has developed real feelings for the club in very short time.

 

I understand he meets weekly with AP; only after he first went public about the results (just before the Pompey game) did our performances take a significant upswing.

 

Maybe AP just wasnt listening to him before, he found it necessary to escalate to the real judges of team and management performance - the fans ???

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Don't know what Samuel's agenda is here. He has taken soundbites from the Radio Solent interview, which was made up of questions submitted by the fans and has twisted them in to some sort of attack on the Manager.

 

Cortese's stewardship is different to what we are used to in this country and certainly different to most football CEOs. It's a 'well done, we are doing well but WE CAN DO BETTER!' type of attitude. One where resting on one's laurels is not an option. To me, that is a refreshing change and the only pocket lining going on here, is one of bonuses for achieving and bettering footballing targets (unlike certain other clubs).

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Hmmm, I have been slightly worried by Cortese's recent interviews (or is this a re-hash of the January one), as I do think he is being unreasonable. I agre, to an extent, with what Samuel is saying, but I don't agree with the way it has been articulated.

 

+1, besides the season isn't over, who knows where we find ourselves from 10th to 6th are still possible.

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Can't disagree with the article. Has NC not had a little self promotional actvity on OS? something that Lowe was heavily criticised for.

 

NC maybe doing a good job only time will tell. We don;t need these stories unsettling the club just as it finds stability.

 

The summer will tell us a lot. Lets enjoy the remainder of the week, a cup final at Wembley and see what the summer brings

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The underlying thread of that article is very good and I agree with most of it - it's the acerbic delivery and character assassination that I find very unsavoury and makes MS look like a buffoon.

 

Anyone who calls RL delightfull is indeed a buffoon

 

Not that I have any time for Martin Samuel who is indeed a buffoon but in fairness I think it's clear the "delightful" tag was totally sarcastic !

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The underlying thread of that article is very good and I agree with most of it - it's the acerbic delivery and character assassination that I find very unsavoury and makes MS look like a buffoon.

 

Anyone who calls RL delightfull is indeed a buffoon

He was being sarcastic.

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Without sounding like Alpine/Glasgow, I gotta agree with Cortese on this one

 

With the money we have spent, then we should be better placed.....ignore the 10 point deduction & we would still be outside the play-offs. I agree that the early part of season was a rebuilding phase, but with the money we have spent then we should not be losing away at teams like Tranmere.

 

This is not an anti Pardew post - I just think that Cortese is right in keeping players/managers focused.

 

A totally OTT acticle as usual by this rag !

 

This is the kind of bonkers mentality that infests life.

 

No one or amount of money has a divine right to be or do anything.

 

Not only that, but sport (like life) is 90% work and 10% luck - possibly even more in the luck drawer.

 

Gary Player might have thought that the harder he worked the luckier he got but he wasn't in the aeroplane the day Payne Stewart came down in it was he?

 

Geoff Hurst got a linesman's flag his way. What if the Russian has signalled no goal? It wouldn't be 44 years of hurt, it would be 80...

 

We should beat Tranmere because we outplay them. We might beat them because we get the rub of the green. On the day we should have beaten them because we were the better quality side. We should have beaten them because we worked hard enough to justify it, just.

 

We didn't. That's football. That's life. Sometimes other teams win - either with fortune or without.

 

But above all, it's 30 games into the manager's career at Southampton. It's what ten games into Jason Puncheon's? Lee Barnards's? 30 into Rickie Lambert's?

 

And guess what, we will STILL LOSE football matches. Ask Mr Ferguson or Mr Ancelotti - how is that £700m investment in winning the Champion's League coming on? How did United fair at Burnley - a team they 'should beat' easily on any given measure.

 

This team is in promotion form. It could still get promoted. On Sunday we could win our first tin-pot trophy for 34 years...

 

After ten years of being the most beaten football club in England. After two relegations. After the complete bollix of a season I was forced to endure last year, can people please just let me enjoy it?? Or is that too much to ask for al those suffering from premature promotion fever...

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Why anyone believes anything that is written in this paper is beyond me. Having twice had reporters banging on my front door in recent weeks and seeing a pack of lies written and published about me on Monday I can vouch for this newspapers absolute dis regard for the truth and penchance for nasty mischief making.

 

Anyone who buys this very unpleasant rag should be ashamed.

 

Is there really any point in calling Cortese a buffoon?

 

Love to see Cortese take on the Mail and ban it from SMS.

 

I know you have a personal reason to feel this way but I do actually agree with you there. Its not that I don't follow his line of thinking, I just think there was a quite nasty and spiteful tone to the article that was as you say unnecessary. Sure NC may come off as a bit cold and a bit of a hard nosed businessman but then he's achieved a heck of a lot more in his life than some hack journalist. I think people may have a case if they say that Cortese could be a bit more lenient with Pardew but that article was quite offensive and completely OTT IMO.

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Have to say sometimes articles like this just seem to be written to divide club and fans....isn't it about time Southampton got some good PR from the press?

 

Cortese I feel it seems is very misunderstood by many on here and I can understand why. Unless you've been in business and demand the highest standards from your staff you'll never reach the top. This is what Cortese demands....I respect him for that.

 

My only personal disagreement in the way he comes across is his lack of thankfulness towards Pardew and the EXCELLENT job he's done in the short time he's been here. It seems many of us have forgotten just how amazingly quickly Pardew spotted our issues and began to resolve them 1 by 1. Yes he had the money to do so, but he also demonstrates he knows how to get the best out of the players he's had like Lallana, Davis, Schiederlin & Others that were already at the club.

 

I'm in support of Pardew and Cortese, I think everything is correct at the club now, the only thing that's now required is some patience to see the fruits.

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Martin Samuel has only recently joined the Daily Wail and has struggled to prove he is worth the money they obviously had to pay to get him from The Thunderer. In general, he comes across as being a malcontent who always takes the opposite view to the norm.

 

This article is deliberate sh*t stirring to de-stabilise the club before it's success becomes unstoppable wrapped up in a way that at first sight appears to be on the side of the supporters but it isn't and don't be fooled.

 

Why else would Saints even get a mention in the Wail when they were in the premiership didn't even figure strong enough get more than a couple of lines, usually derogatory at that.

 

Samuel is a loose cannon best ignored.

 

Forget it!

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