Criticising the manager....

[Clifford Nelson]

Thinking back, Dave, I suspect you're dead right. There was clearly contact with Coppell because he kept appearing in the directors' box - even after Pardew was appointed. My hunch is that he was offered the job and his answer wasn't "No" but "Not right now", so AP was Cortese's second choice because he couldn't wait.

 

My worry, and I've posted this before, is that Cortese is caught in a void. He isn't quite angry enough to fire Pardew and he knows most of the fans seem to like him, but he isn't impressed enough with Pardew to let him loose with much more transfer cash in the Summer.

 

That raises the spectre of a disappointing start to the season because we haven't done much to improve the squad in key areas, and a disappointing start to the season would result in Pardew being fired and another "catch the leaders" exercise.

 

Watching from afar, I'd be surprised if Cortese stays in that void. He's impatient and impulsive, and any bad result at or after Wembley could see the axe fall.

 

I think you have got it round about right. NC's shortcoming, which he is well aware of, is that he lacks footballing expertise. I'd be surprised if he's not kicking himself for not addressing the Sporting Director position. The right SD would by now be clear about what the club needs in the managerial seat, which has got to do with the type of football this club should be playing. As it is it seems to be more the glint in the applicants eye which becomes a determining factor. A very dodgy way of selecting managers which in many ways explains the managerial merry-go-rounds over the years.

 

But let's be sensible. The club is not in crisis. The Tranmere and Swindon results are not catastrophies, and there is still time for NC to decide what to do next, and to discuss widely with the wisest minds in european football, and make some decisions about direction before he even considers names. We also need to remember that AP in no worse that the overwhelming majority of british managers, and better than many.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Sorry again when were we a successful EPL club? unless by success you mean avoiding relegation year after year, being knocked out of all the cup compitions and finishing eigth once. This is what it comes down to its fine to be mediocre and poor as long as we're doing it in the EPL. people on here talking about wanting succsess and not excepting second best really seem to mean "second best is ok as long as I'm watching Liverpool beat us"

 

 

I'd have thought 27 years of continuous top flight football and thus by definition being one of the 20 or so most prominent clubs in English football was a pretty fair definition of success for this club . We achieved that in the (quite recent) past and I see no good reason why we should not aim for that again . There are 92 professional football clubs in the so-called league 'pyramid' - it remains my opinion that any of those 92 clubs that finish the season still in the top flight can be considered as some kind of footballing success . Your refusal to recognize this simple truth is mystifying to this fan - I'll be charitable and conclude you are being deliberately obtuse .

 

I'm far from sure what you actually want for the club but it would appear you are one of the many on here who limit their ambition to seeing SFC beat the impoverished 3rd Division 'small fry' on a regular basis and are perfectly happy with that depressingly modest level of achievement - I suppose this point of view could be summarised as the 'flat track bully' argument .

I reject that point of view in its entirety.

 

Markus Liebherr bought this club (at great expense) with the stated aim of returning it to the top flight of English football within 5 years . Mr Liebherr and Nicola Cortese obviously possess the vision to see this club becoming something better than what it is now - 'each to his own' of course but to be perfectly frank I prefer their vision to yours .

Edited 20 March, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[John B]

I'd have thought 27 years of continuous top flight football and thus by definition being one of the 20 or so most prominent clubs in English football was a pretty fair definition of success for this club . We achieved that in the (quite recent) past and I see no good reason why we should not aim for that again . There are 92 professional football clubs in the so-called league 'pyramid' - it remains my opinion that any of those 92 clubs that finish the season still in the top flight can be considered as some kind of footballing success . Your refusal to recognize this simple truth is mystifying to this fan - I'll be charitable and conclude you are being deliberately obtuse .

 

I'm far from sure what you actually want for the club but it would appear you are one of the many on here who limit their ambition to seeing SFC beat the impoverished 3rd Division 'small fry' on a regular basis and are perfectly happy with that depressingly modest level of achievement - I suppose this point of view could be summarised as the 'flat track bully' argument .

I reject that point of view in its entirety.

 

Markus Liebherr bought this club (at great expense) with the stated aim of returning it to the top flight of English football within 5 years . Mr Liebherr and Nicola Cortese obviously possess the vision to see this club becoming something better than what it is now - 'each to his own' of course but to be perfectly frank I prefer their vision to yours .

 

I do think Doddie has a point for a number of years success was avoiding relegation I must admit I prefer success to be a visit to Wembley

 

But you are right success is relative

[Dalek2003]

How could Pardew "not have any idea what he was getting into".

 

I thought he was a professional football manager with top flight experience being appointed to take over a club in the third tier of English football, with more money than any club at that level for over a decade.

 

How could he "not have any idea"? Aren't we paying him to have "an idea" or two?

 

 

 

 

I'm getting heartily sick of people making out that Saints are the hardest done by club in British football.

 

Getting a club spending millions with the second biggest fanbase in the division promoted from League One is NOT some unrealistic footballing miracle.

 

 

 

Cortese must wish he'd never spent a penny on players because he has invested millions and millions and millions on playing talent only for ungrateful berks to pontificate about how "money doesn't make any difference".

 

I wish he'd spent zero. Nothing.

 

Just stuck last years kids out. Because buying Lambert and Barnard and Hammond and Harding and Puncheon and Fonte makes no difference apparently.

 

Cortese should have spent nothing. Because money doesn't solve anything, does it?

 

Then you gits would have something to bloody moan about then.

 

 

You don't not what you are talking about. Just having a rant IMO

[Dalek2003]

I actually think Wotte may well have done much better - to spend the money we have, have the squad we have and to be so far behind the top 8 sides is borderline criminal.

 

AP will acknowledge that he has failed this season (at some stage) NC will then publically back him. Behind the scenes however AP will be told "top 2 or bye bye" regards next season.

 

Any doubts that we may fail to achieve top 2 and AP will be gone by the end of 2010

 

I hope he can do it as the thought of one more season in L1 is bad, if he fails again next season then we could face 2 years more in L1.

 

Come on AP get it together :cool:

 

Agree with this. AP has to start off with a flyer next season and by Christmas we should have opened a lead at the top of the League. Otherwise, that is it.

 

IMO we are starting preparations for next season NOW !

[SaintRichmond]

In Italy they tend to go for older managers, wheras in this country there's been a recent trend to go for younger managers. With NC being Italian and having links with Italian football I wouldnt be surprised if any replacement is an experienced manager - possibly one with international experience. I give you Steve McClaren.

 

 

 

And I would like to give him straight back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

[Glasgow_Saint]

Agree with this. AP has to start off with a flyer next season and by Christmas we should have opened a lead at the top of the League. Otherwise, that is it.

 

IMO we are starting preparations for next season NOW !

 

If you listen to AP, you'd think he has been preparing for next season since he took over - his comments when NC said that the play offs were the target "this season" were remarkable - he almost seemed surprised and seemed to think that the JPT (LOL) was his priority.

[Dalek2003]

If you listen to AP, you'd think he has been preparing for next season since he took over - his comments when NC said that the play offs were the target "this season" were remarkable - he almost seemed surprised and seemed to think that the JPT (LOL) was his priority.

 

I think you are right on the first part of this comment. Can't remember thinking that AP saw the JPT as a priority. I always felt he saw this as a bonus.

[SaintRichmond]

If you listen to AP, you'd think he has been preparing for next season since he took over - his comments when NC said that the play offs were the target "this season" were remarkable - he almost seemed surprised and seemed to think that the JPT (LOL) was his priority.

 

 

He DID make it his priority. Problem is, I doubt very much that his January aquisitions signed on with the magic words " of course you realise that we aren't going for the play offs this year, so it's another season in Division 1 "

 

IMHO it will be another mini Team rebuild during the close season:cool:

[corsacar saint]

AP has done a lot of good things ,bought in some excellent players and is a very nice guy to boot. However my worry is next year ,when we will be expected to go up,has he

got the managerial skills to motivate a highly talented group of players to perform consistently enough to be promoted.[top 2]

[up and away]

I think you have got it round about right. NC's shortcoming, which he is well aware of, is that he lacks footballing expertise. I'd be surprised if he's not kicking himself for not addressing the Sporting Director position. The right SD would by now be clear about what the club needs in the managerial seat, which has got to do with the type of football this club should be playing. As it is it seems to be more the glint in the applicants eye which becomes a determining factor. A very dodgy way of selecting managers which in many ways explains the managerial merry-go-rounds over the years.

 

But let's be sensible. The club is not in crisis. The Tranmere and Swindon results are not catastrophies, and there is still time for NC to decide what to do next, and to discuss widely with the wisest minds in european football, and make some decisions about direction before he even considers names. We also need to remember that AP in no worse that the overwhelming majority of british managers, and better than many.

 

The sporting director is no big issue at present, where he will be vital is in the steps leading into the Premier. Cortese has set up a working group nigh identical to what Lowe did for the acquisition of players, something that seems to be working very well when you have the money and can virtually buy the best player from anyone in our league. When we go into the CCC it's going to ratch up an order of magnitude, several for the Premier and that's where the SD will be vital. As for the manager, Cortese will be as good as anyone. You can look at all managers clubs have taken on over the years and the only one I can say that was inspired / well thought out, was Wenger. Just look at Burley, I could not imagine a manager with a better pedigree for us and look what happened there.

 

You are correct, the club is not in crisis but the Tranmere, Swindon results may be a lot more significant than you portray. If that means no promotion this season, that has an impact of several millions to Liebherr. I expect Cortese is totally ****ed off with Pardew on not prioritising on the league and that all the money spent in January failed to yield the desired result.

 

Even though I find Pardew extremely frustrating and would like to put a few dents in his arse, I believe he should be here next season. But he really needs to demonstrate automatic promotion form from the beginning of next season, eliminating the current flaw of inconsistency.

[The Majestic Channon]

[/b]

 

 

He DID make it his priority. Problem is, I doubt very much that his January aquisitions signed on with the magic words " of course you realise that we aren't going for the play offs this year, so it's another season in Division 1 "

 

IMHO it will be another mini Team rebuild during the close season:cool:

 

No he DID NOT,and you know it. As stated elswhere in the thread A.P. has always looked upon the J.P.T. as a bonus.

[up and away]

No he DID NOT,and you know it. As stated elswhere in the thread A.P. has always looked upon the J.P.T. as a bonus.

 

That is not the case, Pardew came out with this in the programme notes, something that Cortese reacted strongly to.

 

But the Saints boss defended his focus on the cups as well. In his programme notes, he said he had prioritised the cups because of the ten point deduction. Cortese had described the league as the “top, top priority.”

[The Majestic Channon]

That is not the case, Pardew came out with this in the programme notes, something that Cortese reacted strongly to.

 

But the Saints boss defended his focus on the cups as well. In his programme notes, he said he had prioritised the cups because of the ten point deduction. Cortese had described the league as the “top, top priority.”

Strange seeing as he definately stated a few times the j.p.t. is just a bonus.

[CB Fry]

You don't not what you are talking about. Just having a rant IMO

 

 

Still in a relegation battle according to you though, so I know more than you do. But then we all know that.

[derry]

If the club aren't absolutely certain that Pardew is the right manager for the whole of next season leading to automatic promotion he should be replaced.

 

If there is any doubt, he should not be left to start next season, then have to make a change and catch up. I think it will be the former.

[Barry the Badger]

If the club aren't absolutely certain that Pardew is the right manager for the whole of next season leading to automatic promotion he should be replaced.

 

If there is any doubt, he should not be left to start next season, then have to make a change and catch up. I think it will be the former.

 

No chance.

[Dalek2003]

Still in a relegation battle according to you though, so I know more than you do. But then we all know that.

 

CBFRY the all knowing one.

[Professor]

AP is OK - he has his strengths and weaknesses like everyone. There is no 'perfect' manager - so if AP left, or was replaced, the new guy would just have different strengths and different weaknesses. What is good at SFC is that teh manager is being managed by the Chairman, and is under pressure to perform - unlike the dire days of Wilde, Crouch etc, who meant well but weren't up to the role.

[Clifford Nelson]

The sporting director is no big issue at present, where he will be vital is in the steps leading into the Premier. Cortese has set up a working group nigh identical to what Lowe did for the acquisition of players, something that seems to be working very well when you have the money and can virtually buy the best player from anyone in our league. When we go into the CCC it's going to ratch up an order of magnitude, several for the Premier and that's where the SD will be vital. As for the manager, Cortese will be as good as anyone. You can look at all managers clubs have taken on over the years and the only one I can say that was inspired / well thought out, was Wenger. Just look at Burley, I could not imagine a manager with a better pedigree for us and look what happened there.

 

You are correct, the club is not in crisis but the Tranmere, Swindon results may be a lot more significant than you portray. If that means no promotion this season, that has an impact of several millions to Liebherr. I expect Cortese is totally ****ed off with Pardew on not prioritising on the league and that all the money spent in January failed to yield the desired result.

 

Even though I find Pardew extremely frustrating and would like to put a few dents in his arse, I believe he should be here next season. But he really needs to demonstrate automatic promotion form from the beginning of next season, eliminating the current flaw of inconsistency.

 

I think the race to CCC is probably over for us, but that is probably not the most important point long term. I think that Tranmere and Swindon, as well as Exeter and Brentford, are highly significant for showing our lack of plan when the ball doesn't run for us, which is the entire argument I am offering. That is altogether ten points lost due to bewilderment in adversity. Together with our first few games of the season, that's the difference between our current position and one in the play offs.

 

Regarding AP I am convinced that he isn't the answer in the longer perspective, but I will not join any silly calls for removing him. Just like your example with George Burley, who on the face of it seemed to have the pedigree, but failed repeatedly, this is what I'm suggesting ought to be avoided at any cost. Successful cv is all very good, but there is more to it than that: Just exactly what was it he did to get that success?

 

To spot those subtle issues is not really NC's forte. He needs help and that's why think an SD would be very helpful indeed, because an SD should be a person knowing exactly how this club should play it's football to be successful. Without that knowledge the changing of managers becomes entirely a lottery.

[captainchris]

The sporting director is no big issue at present, where he will be vital is in the steps leading into the Premier. Cortese has set up a working group nigh identical to what Lowe did for the acquisition of players, something that seems to be working very well when you have the money and can virtually buy the best player from anyone in our league. When we go into the CCC it's going to ratch up an order of magnitude, several for the Premier and that's where the SD will be vital. As for the manager, Cortese will be as good as anyone. You can look at all managers clubs have taken on over the years and the only one I can say that was inspired / well thought out, was Wenger. Just look at Burley, I could not imagine a manager with a better pedigree for us and look what happened there.

 

You are correct, the club is not in crisis but the Tranmere, Swindon results may be a lot more significant than you portray. If that means no promotion this season, that has an impact of several millions to Liebherr. I expect Cortese is totally ****ed off with Pardew on not prioritising on the league and that all the money spent in January failed to yield the desired result.

 

Even though I find Pardew extremely frustrating and would like to put a few dents in his arse, I believe he should be here next season. But he really needs to demonstrate automatic promotion form from the beginning of next season, eliminating the current flaw of inconsistency.

 

Why why oh why is 'next season' likely to be different to this - can someone please tell me..............Why will we be playing coherant planned passing football next year but not this?????

[CB Fry]

CBFRY the all knowing one.

 

 

No, just know more than you do. Which isn't difficult as your regular routine of embarrassing yourself on here demonstrates.

 

Anyway, fingers crossed we scrape free of the drop zone, eh?

[sadoldgit]

Why why oh why is 'next season' likely to be different to this - can someone please tell me..............Why will we be playing coherant planned passing football next year but not this?????

 

Next season we will start with the same points total as everyone else. We shall (hopefully) have a stable management structure and team which, again hopefully, will be strengthened in the summer. We shal be more savvy of this division and well prepared for the campain.

 

All of these were not true going into this season.

 

No matter what happens for the remaining games we have had the best season in years. The club is looking forwards with optimisim.

 

Why some people are still not satisfied with our progress beggers belief.

[CB Fry]

Next season we will start with the same points total as everyone else. We shall (hopefully) have a stable management structure and team which, again hopefully, will be strengthened in the summer. We shal be more savvy of this division and well prepared for the campain.

 

 

Wouldn't that mean spending money which of course doesn't make any difference to performance on the pitch according to you?

 

Surely we'll be fine if we spend not a penny this summer because we'll have stability and a pre season and everything?

[Window Cleaner]

Wouldn't that mean spending money which of course doesn't make any difference to performance on the pitch according to you?

 

Surely we'll be fine if we spend not a penny this summer because we'll have stability and a pre season and everything?

 

I bet we sell for more than we buy this time round.Not from any will of the management but just because it will happen that way. Something like 5 million out and a less than a couple of million in.

[Charlie Wayman]

is a favourite pastime of frustrated fans ..and chairmen.

Fans who faithfully attend every match they possible can, and then see a poor performance are often quick to criticise; manager, players or even referees - when their team doesn't pick up 3 points every game.

Lawrie McMenemy (argueably the most successful Saints manager ever) was once quoted as saying..."as manager, you can never never win. If the team gets the points, fans say - the team played well, if they lose - it's my fault 'cos I picked them ", and McMenemy was no stranger to criticism both during and after his 13 years at the club - which started with a relegation!

 

Success has been a rare visitor to SFC in recent decades. Seasons 1976, and 1983/4 were highpoints of the past that were rarely repeated. Enormous support in the 99 "Great Escape" season - when we JUST avoided Prem relegation, and extra boost with ONE good year with Gordon Strachan. Much sadness since, but now we seem to be on the up again.

This current team has won more games than any other team in the last 26 years...and it's only March - poor performance?

 

Building a team, like building a house isn't easier because you employ more bricklayers / or spend money on new players. It takes time to do a good job. Neither Cortese or, Pardew had any idea what they were getting into when they tried to re-float a club last August that started with -10 points. IMHO they have both done excellent jobs in their own way.

 

Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it either- as Roman A. has found at Chelsea, and losing patience and sacking a manager in anger was a bad decision that came home to roost for him on Wednesday night.

 

After 50 years as a fan...I am perhaps more philosophical than some, and many olders fans have seen more change, euphoria and turmoil than many of our younger supporters can ever imagine. If patience is a virtue then it better be a quality that we need to acquire because I'm sure that even if by some miracle, we got promoted this season,some people would be criticising the manager whose team was ONLY 10th in the CCC - next season !

 

 

You're missing the point completely! We came down with Norwich and Charlton and barring unforeseen hiccoughs on the way they are gong back up again and we are not.

 

We've spent £3million or more on players, they have not.

 

Even without the points deduction we have 60, Norwich have 79 and Charlton have 67 so they are doing way better than us on no money and without the hoo-hah and razzmatazz.

 

We are NOT in the play-offs even without the pints deduction.

 

They've lost 6 each we've lost 8

 

We've won 16, Charlton have won 18 and Norwich have won 24

 

Just something to bear in mind next year when we will be the ONLY "BIG" TEAM in the Rs**hole called the 3rd Division.

 

Still think it's unfair to criticise the manager?

[up and away]

Why why oh why is 'next season' likely to be different to this - can someone please tell me..............Why will we be playing coherant planned passing football next year but not this?????

 

We have clearly seen the promised land with performances against Huddersfield, Norwich and Leeds. Just imagine adding the impact of a Neil Danns into that equation and it's not difficult seeing the negative aspects disappear.

 

Pardew certainly contributed to the slow start with the resources he had available. Just watching all our previous CCC games would have given him a head start, rather than giving everyone a fresh start. I get the feeling we will come very close to the play offs, such most will be able to see how reachable the play offs were, but for better management. With the JPT long gone and the realisation that all we have done is given up one Wembley appearance for another, the value of the JPT will then be seen for it's true value.

 

But you have to be practical about such issues. There is no doubt that Pardew has failed in certain aspects and could well deserve to be removed, but you have to temper that with some wonderful things he has done. We now have a different set of conditions, where cutting off your nose to spite your face should not come into the equation. Then if you are going to replace Pardew you really need to be sure they will be doing better. So unless Billy Davis becomes available, caution is needed. This league should be realtively easy next season with the resources we have, only auomatic form will be acceptable. The CCC will be completely different!

[david in sweden]

You're missing the point completely! We came down with Norwich and Charlton and barring unforeseen hiccoughs on the way they are gong back up again and we are not.

 

We've spent £3million or more on players, they have not.

Even without the points deduction we have 60, Norwich have 79 and Charlton have 67 so they are doing way better than us on no money and without the hoo-hah and razzmatazz.

 

We are NOT in the play-offs even without the pints deduction.

They've lost 6 each we've lost 8

We've won 16, Charlton have won 18 and Norwich have won 24

 

Just something to bear in mind next year when we will be the ONLY "BIG" TEAM in the Rs**hole called the 3rd Division.

Still think it's unfair to criticise the manager?

 

I think you might re-read my original post Charlie W.

I was being a little nostalgic over my time as a fan, and didn't feel I was necessarily defending AP, but I did comment that they didn't know what they were in for. (I suspect however, that AP thought that his prev.experience might have given us better start than we had.)

The only plusses IMHO were that KD decided to stay, and that Lallana didn't leave. What was left was a demoralised and inadequate squad in a club only days away from bankruptcy-most of whom were replaced within the first 8 weeks. It is clear that the stop-gap measures of loan players and makeshift defenders wasn't the answer. Although NC bravely put up the money for the new buys, I don't think he expected so much, quite so soon either.

 

Of the two clubs you mentioned, Norwich though poor last season were unlucky to go down and Charlton had a mini revival at the end but not enough to stay up. I don't think either team has had such a major overhaul to their squads, whether they cost big money, or not. Certainly, few fans can claim that AP has made too many bad buys !

 

My main comparison was with Lawrie Mc. who took over a team in 8th place and saw them relegated in the second half of the same season. As you will recall, his first full season we finished a miserable 13th, and the year when we won the FA Cup we were only 6th (no play-offs then.), followed by a mediochre 9th - (even with Ball, Osgood and Mac Dougall) - before we got back up to Div.1

 

My point is that money doesn't but success and new managers don't succeed first time around (as Ted Bates might have testified). All the talk of "gelling" and getting the " right blend of youth and experience" sounds a lot of spin but is nevertheless true. As someone who "loved to hate " Leeds (in the 1970's) I am nevertheless a little pleased that they might have some chance to redeem themselves after such a traumatic period. I only hope it doesn't take so long for Saints to get "rehabilitated " to a higher level.

 

Whether or not AP will be the manager to do that or not, is a matter for the patient fans and a trusting Chairman.We've had our share of changing managers every season, we don't need any more of that sort of publicity.

WHERE WOULD WE HAVE BEEN,(I sometimes reflect)...if we'd sacked McMenemy after that first season, and who might have replaced him if we had...and what would our club history have looked like now ?

 

(MY original thread was purely philosophising and nostalgia). Sorry if you or others may have misinterpreted it.

[Clifford Nelson]

Why why oh why is 'next season' likely to be different to this - can someone please tell me..............Why will we be playing coherant planned passing football next year but not this?????

 

You've got it! We will have a few more points because we're not likely to have such indifferent start of the season, but otherwise...

 

And welcome to a small band of posters who believe that we have seen the chink in the armour. I have been asking similar questions to you for a few weeks now, and nobody have tried to engage in a coherent argument for why I am wrong. Therefore I believe that both of us are right, but it doesn't fill me with any joy.

[david in sweden]

You've got it! We will have a few more points because we're not likely to have such indifferent start of the season, but otherwise...

 

And welcome to a small band of posters who believe that we have seen the chink in the armour. I have been asking similar questions to you for a few weeks now, and nobody have tried to engage in a coherent argument for why I am wrong. Therefore I believe that both of us are right, but it doesn't fill me with any joy.

 

perhaps....because that coherant planned passing doesn't work quite so well on some of the ploughed fields in this league. Pardew has admitted this. (Coincidentally, some of those teams who struggle at the lower end of the league.)

Some of the goals which have cost us points have come from set-pieces and long range efforts that players (like Lambert) try ...from time to time. Even playing some form of coherent game plan depends on fair referees and a good playing surface.

Allowing for a couple of " blips" ... our record since the arrival of Fonte & Co.(League game no.24) is surely as good as most teams in L1. Thats progress, and as I observed recently we have actually EARNED 60 points this season - only the EA's penalty of -10 makes it what it is.

Edited 21 March, 2010 by david in sweden

[CB Fry]

perhaps....because that coherant planned passing doesn't work quite so well on some of the ploughed fields in this league. Pardew has admitted this. (Coincidentally, some of those teams who struggle at the lower end of the league.)

Some of the goals which have cost us points have come from set-pieces and long range efforts that players (like Lambert) try ...from time to time. Even playing some form of coherent game plan depends on fair referees and a good playing surface.

 

 

Shouldn't "the game plan" assume that League One is going to involve lots of matches on ploughed fields, and lots of games with referees who are, well, lower league standard.

 

Anyone managing a football club in League One should be planning for those incredibly likely scenarios. Otherwise there is something chronically wrong with the plan.

[doddisalegend]

Shouldn't "the game plan" assume that League One is going to involve lots of matches on ploughed fields, and lots of games with referees who are, well, lower league standard.

 

Anyone managing a football club in League One should be planning for those incredibly likely scenarios. Otherwise there is something chronically wrong with the plan.

 

While I agree with you about pitches (which is a poor excuse) I'm not sure you can plan for poor reffing desicions. You couldn't plan for that clown at Tranmere (which to be fair is the only game this season I think really was lost to poor reffing).

[david in sweden]

Shouldn't "the game plan" assume that League One is going to involve lots of matches on ploughed fields, and lots of games with referees who are, well, lower league standard.

 

YES it should!..so maybe we should get scouts to ignore the opposing players and concentrate on the state of the pitches instead?. Unfortunately the "clown " who recently refereed a recent game at SMS, made similar mistakes in a Prem match yesterday.

Anyone managing a football club in League One should be planning for those incredibly likely scenarios. Otherwise there is something chronically wrong with the plan.

 

Agreed ! Should we get rid of the players, or sack the manager ? we've got money to start over again, but if you choose the second alternative..please name possible successors.

Edited 21 March, 2010 by david in sweden

[CB Fry]

Agreed ! Should we get rid of the players, or sack the manager ? we've got money to start over again, but if you choose the second alternative..please name possible successors.

 

 

How about neither, and who says "we have the money to start over again"?

 

There is a lot of arrogant complacency setting in on this forum that we will have a bottomless pit of money to spend forever.

 

Pardew was given boatloads and boatloads of cash for this level with a view to getting in the play offs this season. I think it highly likely he has spent most of the summer budget already.

 

That's why it was imperative to put together the gold standard run into play off contention to reflect the platinum standard investment.

 

 

And that's the heart of the point I have been trying to make which everyone misreads with their tedious "oh you want to sack the manager" snidey replies.

 

 

Too many fans want to have their "look where we've come from, slow and steady building" cake and they want to eat it too with talk of even more money in the summer, which isn't really "slow and steady building" is it? It's chucking money about.

 

Skint teams like Swindon do slow and steady building. Other teams, like us, chuck money at it and then expect results immediately, which is fair enough - otherwise why bother spending anything?

 

If all we want is slow and steady building well we could have done that with frees, kids and loans like Swindon, Colchester and Millwall.

 

Too many Saints fans want to have it both ways - Harrods spending and Big Issue "we're so helpless/look where we've come from/slow and steady" mentality.

 

Well you can't have it both ways, and a poor end to the season, if it happens will show that you can't.

 

And you certainly can't assume "we have the money" to do anything.

Edited 21 March, 2010 by CB Fry

[david in sweden]

I don't believe it's so easy to use a phrase like "slow and steady building" in L1.

There are a dozen teams in this league who SURVIVE every year, but little more, because you can do just so much at this level without a big cash imput. Those clubs who got fees from us were very grateful; Bristol Rovers, Exeter and Southend

...and Colchester are the only club with a chance of a play off but still couldn't afford to fund CCC football.

 

If NC got impatient, he could sack AP, sell Lambert (for considerably more than the paltry £1 million we paid) and still have funds over to run an L1 club with players on 2K a-week. I've never used the phrase bottomless pit either, but it's clear we have resources available, if the owner wants to invest more...unlike those clubs who are facing administration because they can'tapay their tax bill!.

 

It is possible to build a side, on youth, cheap buys and free transfers but it takes time and thankfully we don't have to go that route. I really don't see why some people think that big money transfers (if we rate £1 milion as big) should be an automatic measure to win every game and get promoted - even when you've started with -10 points.

 

To be honest, I've read your (many) criticisms CB, but I don't see you have offered any clear resolution to what you obviously see is the main problem.?

Edited 22 March, 2010 by david in sweden

[Clifford Nelson]

In the first 9 league games of the season we managed to get a sum total of 9points, which shows the lack of quality together with lack of pre-season which AP had to deal with. For that he needs a bit of understanding.

 

Then came the Bristol Rovers at home game, which in spite of us losing it still was my best experience of the season. It showed what we were capable of doing and we set out on a 16 game run with only 1 loss and 13 wins. But by the end of it AP's belief in the 4-5-1 had long faded. He probably never had any belief in it and merely adjusted to the fact that we only had one striker which he fancied. We had returned to 4-4-2, hoofball, head tennis, preferring conference players to Serie A alternatives, and sacrificing width.

 

Our run since then is OK, which it should be with so much better players, but it isn't league winning quality. No manager can guarantee winning all games, but our downfall hasn't been the top of the league, but a series of inept performances against clearly inferior opposition. Complaints about pitches and referees should not cloud the lesson learnt from all walks of life, that poor planning produces poor performance.

 

Next season is not going to provide anything better, apart from a better start of the season, and therefore a good chance of promotion. Following that we might be back to the CCC, but playing wise we will still be at square one, wondering whether even more, and increasingly expensive, players will do the job better.

 

The return to 4-4-2 signified to me a lack of conviction rather than any belief in it's superiority. Playing wise we returned into the anonymity of the mass of british football.

 

Am I capable of coming up with all the answers? No, I'm not. I freely admit not ever to have either played or managed at the highest level, but I can regognize a problem when I see one. If Saints are to return to the top level as a competitive side we need a blueprint to our football, which will give direction to the management, and render any more Tranmere episodes obsolete.

 

I'm hoping that this will still happen, and in the meantime I will enjoy my football when we're winning. But I am not fooling myself that this is the new dawn.

[Daren W]

How could Pardew "not have any idea what he was getting into".

 

I thought he was a professional football manager with top flight experience being appointed to take over a club in the third tier of English football, with more money than any club at that level for over a decade.

 

How could he "not have any idea"? Aren't we paying him to have "an idea" or two?

 

 

 

 

I'm getting heartily sick of people making out that Saints are the hardest done by club in British football.

 

Getting a club spending millions with the second biggest fanbase in the division promoted from League One is NOT some unrealistic footballing miracle.

 

 

 

Cortese must wish he'd never spent a penny on players because he has invested millions and millions and millions on playing talent only for ungrateful berks to pontificate about how "money doesn't make any difference".

 

I wish he'd spent zero. Nothing.

 

Just stuck last years kids out. Because buying Lambert and Barnard and Hammond and Harding and Puncheon and Fonte makes no difference apparently.

 

Cortese should have spent nothing. Because money doesn't solve anything, does it?

 

Then you gits would have something to bloody moan about then.

 

It's amazing how some people seem to forget what sort of shape we were in as a club come the pre season. We were a club on its knees with a team that had been relegated, decimated and low on confidence.

 

Now look at us, bar Lallana and Davis we're a totally different team from last season and it takes time to gel. We've got more than our fair share of numpties for whom "Gelling" is some word or phrase to ridicule but the truth is it does take time for players to get to know each other's game. I saw that at the Huddersfield game, players who were clicking, knowing each other's game, knowing the spaces and the players running into them... and it was a beautiful thing to witness.

 

If anyone thinks you can just create/buy that sort of mentality is an idiot... end of. I don't see Man City atop of the premier League and yet if we're to believe the intelligentia of this board throwing money at the situation is the way forward. Why is it that Man City's inability to buy Champions League football is forgotten about? Why is that Chelsea are struggling despite vast sums of money, to win proper silverware and yet under Mourinho they were flying? Surely throwing money at the situation is the way forward? Or is it that getting it right isn't as easy as some make it out to be? Yet our inability to overcome a -10 point headstart and gain promotion at the first attempt with a virtually new team is somehow a massive **** up...

 

The problem we have here is the "Championship Manager" generation who think because they can play and win a computer game, know what it takes to run a football club. I'm playing Uncharted 2, can I climb mountains? I'm playing MW2, does that make me Rambo? Hell no, so why does winning a computer game make some people think they know what it takes to make a successful manager?

 

Do you know what it takes? Time, a bit of investment and the right balance. Which we've almost got, but the way people have ignored the mental barrier of a 10 point deduction, the effects of last years relegation or the fact that we've got almost a whole new team is beyond me.

 

There's a word for it... stupidity...

 

That said, there can be no excuse for failure next season. Many of us have accepted we're going nowhere this season but expect real silverware next season. It's just that some of us had realistic expectations this season and a season of development (on and off the pitch) stability and a trip to Wembley can be viewed as a success and a good start.

[CB Fry]

It's amazing how some people seem to forget what sort of shape we were in as a club come the pre season. We were a club on its knees with a team that had been relegated, decimated and low on confidence.

 

Now look at us, bar Lallana and Davis we're a totally different team from last season and it takes time to gel. We've got more than our fair share of numpties for whom "Gelling" is some word or phrase to ridicule but the truth is it does take time for players to get to know each other's game. I saw that at the Huddersfield game, players who were clicking, knowing each other's game, knowing the spaces and the players running into them... and it was a beautiful thing to witness.

 

If anyone thinks you can just create/buy that sort of mentality is an idiot... end of. I don't see Man City atop of the premier League and yet if we're to believe the intelligentia of this board throwing money at the situation is the way forward. Why is it that Man City's inability to buy Champions League football is forgotten about? Why is that Chelsea are struggling despite vast sums of money, to win proper silverware and yet under Mourinho they were flying? Surely throwing money at the situation is the way forward? Or is it that getting it right isn't as easy as some make it out to be? Yet our inability to overcome a -10 point headstart and gain promotion at the first attempt with a virtually new team is somehow a massive **** up...

 

The problem we have here is the "Championship Manager" generation who think because they can play and win a computer game, know what it takes to run a football club. I'm playing Uncharted 2, can I climb mountains? I'm playing MW2, does that make me Rambo? Hell no, so why does winning a computer game make some people think they know what it takes to make a successful manager?

 

Do you know what it takes? Time, a bit of investment and the right balance. Which we've almost got, but the way people have ignored the mental barrier of a 10 point deduction, the effects of last years relegation or the fact that we've got almost a whole new team is beyond me.

 

There's a word for it... stupidity...

 

That said, there can be no excuse for failure next season. Many of us have accepted we're going nowhere this season but expect real silverware next season. It's just that some of us had realistic expectations this season and a season of development (on and off the pitch) stability and a trip to Wembley can be viewed as a success and a good start.

 

 

 

If all we needed was time, then we didn't need to spend any money.

 

Kenny Jackett got Millwall to the play offs in his first full season on a shoestring, and Danny Wilson is doing much the same at Swindon in his first full season.

 

But we have blown the rest of the division out of the water financially, and we are not Man City trying to get atop of the Premier League as your cliched comparison suggests.

 

We are trying to outdo Swindon, Huddersfield, Colchester, Millwall and MK Dons to reach the giddy heights of sixth in third tier. Not quite the same as winning the worlds biggest, richest and toughest league.

 

Nicola Cortese says today we've thrown too many points away, but I guess he's just a Championship Manager geek you can ignore.

[speculator]

It's amazing how some people seem to forget what sort of shape we were in as a club come the pre season. We were a club on its knees with a team that had been relegated, decimated and low on confidence.

 

Now look at us, bar Lallana and Davis we're a totally different team from last season and it takes time to gel. We've got more than our fair share of numpties for whom "Gelling" is some word or phrase to ridicule but the truth is it does take time for players to get to know each other's game. I saw that at the Huddersfield game, players who were clicking, knowing each other's game, knowing the spaces and the players running into them... and it was a beautiful thing to witness.

 

If anyone thinks you can just create/buy that sort of mentality is an idiot... end of. I don't see Man City atop of the premier League and yet if we're to believe the intelligentia of this board throwing money at the situation is the way forward. Why is it that Man City's inability to buy Champions League football is forgotten about? Why is that Chelsea are struggling despite vast sums of money, to win proper silverware and yet under Mourinho they were flying? Surely throwing money at the situation is the way forward? Or is it that getting it right isn't as easy as some make it out to be? Yet our inability to overcome a -10 point headstart and gain promotion at the first attempt with a virtually new team is somehow a massive **** up...

 

The problem we have here is the "Championship Manager" generation who think because they can play and win a computer game, know what it takes to run a football club. I'm playing Uncharted 2, can I climb mountains? I'm playing MW2, does that make me Rambo? Hell no, so why does winning a computer game make some people think they know what it takes to make a successful manager?

 

Do you know what it takes? Time, a bit of investment and the right balance. Which we've almost got, but the way people have ignored the mental barrier of a 10 point deduction, the effects of last years relegation or the fact that we've got almost a whole new team is beyond me.

 

There's a word for it... stupidity...

 

That said, there can be no excuse for failure next season. Many of us have accepted we're going nowhere this season but expect real silverware next season. It's just that some of us had realistic expectations this season and a season of development (on and off the pitch) stability and a trip to Wembley can be viewed as a success and a good start.

 

Good post and one Cortese could do us all a favour and read. Using Norwich and Charlton as a comparison / barometer to where we should be suggests he likes to dabble on his home computer. The fact we are only 7 points behind Charlton taking into account our points deduction with a good chance of that only being 4 pts come Wednesday then I feel we have had a very good season and Pardew was done a great job setting deep footings for the more visual aspects of the rebuild to really start next year.

 

Grateful to Cortese for his influence over Mr Leibherr and therefore saving the club but his impatience and contrary press releases has partly fuelled the unrest in the fan base that has seen some usually level headed individuals join the knee jerkers who can't seem to accept that a team like Saints can have the occassional slip up. They reason we shouldn't be drawing games at the likes of Wycombe or losing at Tranmere where most would reason its myopic in the extreme to expect not to have the odd bad or has been often the case this season the odd unlucky result.

 

Unfortunately, chairman and owners throughout football can't seem to help themselves at times. Look at Chelsea - for all their spending power the owner alledgedly allowed a dislike of a dour and arrogant manager to get in the way of the one trophy he apparently covets. I doubt Mourinho hasn't stopped smiling since last Wednesday. I hope we don't have another misguided ego landed at SMS for all his good work behind the scenes to date. I'm worried that as the club gets more settled behind the scenes his attention will turn to the pitch and based on his comments so far that is attention that is both unwanted and not warranted in my opinion. Pardew has done a great job under some unwelcome and unjust criticism.

[speculator]

If all we needed was time, then we didn't need to spend any money.

 

Kenny Jackett got Millwall to the play offs in his first full season on a shoestring, and Danny Wilson is doing much the same at Swindon in his first full season.

 

But we have blown the rest of the division out of the water financially, and we are not Man City trying to get atop of the Premier League as your cliched comparison suggests.

 

We are trying to outdo Swindon, Huddersfield, Colchester, Millwall and MK Dons to reach the giddy heights of sixth in third tier. Not quite the same as winning the worlds biggest, richest and toughest league.

 

Nicola Cortese says today we've thrown too many points away, but I guess he's just a Championship Manager geek you can ignore.

 

 

I appreciate what you are saying but with respect to those other teams they do not have the infrastructure of ourselves and cannot readily aspire to having a realistic chance of reaching the Premiership, whereas we can.

 

However, to do that we need more than a solution that relies on quick fixes and hopes that key players avoid injury. Jackett and Wilson are good managers but better versed in papering over the cracks for short term success. Its why they still ply their trades in the lower leagues.

 

Pardew I believe is trying to build a squad with a view to short term success but one that can grow with new acquistions as we are promoted. If the likes of Swindon. Colchester, Millwall etc get promoted this season what is going to happen to them? We need to go up with a squad with more sensible purchases can challange in the CCC next season like Leicester and had we not had the points deficit or delay in pre-season and ability to buy players I have no doubt Pardew could have done 'a Leicester' this year.

 

Unfortunately TIME was against us and whose to say with a win tomorrow that a 10 point gap is not insurmountable if a little improbable. Unlike you I don't think some of us have thrown in the towel just yet, need to wait until this time (that word again) next year provided our chairman stays in a supportive background role.

 

Patience.

[CB Fry]

I appreciate what you are saying but with respect to those other teams they do not have the infrastructure of ourselves and cannot readily aspire to having a realistic chance of reaching the Premiership, whereas we can.

 

However, to do that we need more than a solution that relies on quick fixes and hopes that key players avoid injury. Jackett and Wilson are good managers but better versed in papering over the cracks for short term success. Its why they still ply their trades in the lower leagues.

 

Pardew I believe is trying to build a squad with a view to short term success but one that can grow with new acquistions as we are promoted. If the likes of Swindon. Colchester, Millwall etc get promoted this season what is going to happen to them? We need to go up with a squad with more sensible purchases can challange in the CCC next season like Leicester and had we not had the points deficit or delay in pre-season and ability to buy players I have no doubt Pardew could have done 'a Leicester' this year.

 

Unfortunately TIME was against us and whose to say with a win tomorrow that a 10 point gap is not insurmountable if a little improbable. Unlike you I don't think some of us have thrown in the towel just yet, need to wait until this time (that word again) next year provided our chairman stays in a supportive background role.

 

Patience.

 

Hey, I am patient, and I don't want the manager changed and I do think we will make top two without much difficulty next season.

 

The points I am making is about the performance standard this year has been okay and nothing more.

 

With the resources we have thrown at the team this season then it's not much to ask to be minium 10 points from sixth. And we probably will acheive that come season end.

 

But that was "par" and pretty sure Cortese and Pardew were aiming for above par, especially when we started parachuting in £1.5m centre backs from the league above.

 

That is patently not the actions of a club gradually scaping together a team from the wreckage. It's the actions of a club that wants success yesterday.

 

In that context performance this year has been below par. There's too many seeing Saints as some underdog team scraping up the table against all odds. Frankly that's offensive to the rest of the division who we tower over financially and with infrastructure.

 

 

 

So to everyone - I don't need lectures about "give the manager time" and all that horses h it. I've heard it and you'll notice I haven't ever said Pardew should be given anything else than total support for the forseeable. I don't want him sacked so spare the cheap points scoring implying I do.

 

My comments are mainly aimed at those suggesting he has achieved some miracle this season, when actually we're still below par.

[up and away]

Good post and one Cortese could do us all a favour and read. Using Norwich and Charlton as a comparison / barometer to where we should be suggests he likes to dabble on his home computer. The fact we are only 7 points behind Charlton taking into account our points deduction with a good chance of that only being 4 pts come Wednesday then I feel we have had a very good season and Pardew was done a great job setting deep footings for the more visual aspects of the rebuild to really start next year.

 

Grateful to Cortese for his influence over Mr Leibherr and therefore saving the club but his impatience and contrary press releases has partly fuelled the unrest in the fan base that has seen some usually level headed individuals join the knee jerkers who can't seem to accept that a team like Saints can have the occassional slip up. They reason we shouldn't be drawing games at the likes of Wycombe or losing at Tranmere where most would reason its myopic in the extreme to expect not to have the odd bad or has been often the case this season the odd unlucky result.

 

Unfortunately, chairman and owners throughout football can't seem to help themselves at times. Look at Chelsea - for all their spending power the owner alledgedly allowed a dislike of a dour and arrogant manager to get in the way of the one trophy he apparently covets. I doubt Mourinho hasn't stopped smiling since last Wednesday. I hope we don't have another misguided ego landed at SMS for all his good work behind the scenes to date. I'm worried that as the club gets more settled behind the scenes his attention will turn to the pitch and based on his comments so far that is attention that is both unwanted and not warranted in my opinion. Pardew has done a great job under some unwelcome and unjust criticism.

 

If Cortese is not going to use other teams in this league for a comparison, what should he do? Use the leagues above and below and extrapolate between?

 

Corteses impatience and contrary press releases? What do you believe Cortese should have done when the manager comes out in print stating the mickey mouse cup is his priority, irrespective of what the CEO states?

 

I believe Pardew should still be here at the start of next season, but if that came down to a choice between Pardew and Cortese it is a total non contest. We could have got several other managers to have achieved similar to Pardew, but Cortese was alone in what he brought to the table. I thought his handling of the Echo to be an error, but not even sure about that now.

 

As a CEO I cannot rate Cortese highly enough. Going through all the infrastructure and making sure it's on a footing to progress this club to the top. Keeping the fans informed every now and then, what has and is happening. Let's anyone know in uncertain terms if you rattle his cage. Can anyone fault him for the infrastructure that has been put in place or the resources he has made available to make things happen? This sounds a bit like it's Corteses own money being used, not Liebherrs. Obviously not the case, but it's Corteses decision to back Pardew in the January window based upon their communications.

 

The amount of football managers I can think of that don't need managing themselves is extremely rare, Wenger being a noteable exception, most of the rest you would not trust with the weekly shop. Dave Basset once said about being interviewed for the position as manager, I would basically nod and agree during the interview, then get on with what I wanted when it came to it.

[derry]

perhaps....because that coherant planned passing doesn't work quite so well on some of the ploughed fields in this league. Pardew has admitted this. (Coincidentally, some of those teams who struggle at the lower end of the league.)

Some of the goals which have cost us points have come from set-pieces and long range efforts that players (like Lambert) try ...from time to time. Even playing some form of coherent game plan depends on fair referees and a good playing surface.

Allowing for a couple of " blips" ... our record since the arrival of Fonte & Co.(League game no.24) is surely as good as most teams in L1. Thats progress, and as I observed recently we have actually EARNED 60 points this season - only the EA's penalty of -10 makes it what it is.

 

In that case what's his excuse for not playing a passing game at St Mary's. We have played some dire hoofball there.

[david in sweden]

In that case what's his excuse for not playing a passing game at St Mary's. We have played some dire hoofball there.

 

 

Obviously other teams scout us out first to see how they can combat our formation - and if you play enough men back you

could stop almost any side from playing ..but PERHAPS ..some players don't listen to AP enough sometimes...

or, maybe we play against some good teams from time to time and lose or, perhaps like the rest of the world sometimes...

they have .." a bad day at the office."

 

If we followed the comments of some contributors we'd sack certain players twice a month! ..on the other hand when we don't get 3 points every match .. it's obviously the managers fault ..isn't it ?????

[derry]

All I know is what my eyes are telling me. We have bought a very good squad but they are not being allowed to play to their collective abilities and are hamstrung by the the managers negative approach, packing the midfield and forcing the ball to be lumped up front.

 

I don't buy into the Pardew philosophy, I'll go even further, I bloody well hate the way we play. This squad of players deserve better than the up the middle way of playing Pardew is adopting.

 

I want to see us playing proper passing football and these players would be a much better team if they played that way. If Pardew can't supply a team which contains some of the best talent in the league, that plays like a proper football team, without relying on hoofball, I want him replaced with a manager who will.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

..The right SD would by now be clear about what the club needs in the managerial seat, which has got to do with the type of football this club should be playing. . .

 

When I hear this I wonder why we need an SD at all. Does the owner have a say in the style of play? Does the CE have to pursue that, or is it left to the CE to decide, and then appoint an SD who will try to deliver it by telling you who to appoint as manager?

 

It all becomes a frightful mess, as responsibilities and accountability becomes so blurred. In fact the SD becomes the one with the CE's ear and the manager is left to be the one to field the brickbats from the fans.

 

Does Furguson need an SD to tell him how the side should play? No. So if you get a good manager, the SD job becomes almost redundant straight away, especially if the CE or Chairman does all the contract negotiations.

 

What a CE needs are good "independent" contacts who can give as unbiased an opinion as possible on the qualities of potential managers, not an overpaid sinecure.

[Window Cleaner]

When I hear this I wonder why we need an SD at all. Does the owner have a say in the style of play? Does the CE have to pursue that, or is it left to the CE to decide, and then appoint an SD who will try to deliver it by telling you who to appoint as manager?

 

It all becomes a frightful mess, as responsibilities and accountability becomes so blurred. In fact the SD becomes the one with the CE's ear and the manager is left to be the one to field the brickbats from the fans.

 

Does Furguson need an SD to tell him how the side should play? No. So if you get a good manager, the SD job becomes almost redundant straight away, especially if the CE or Chairman does all the contract negotiations.

 

What a CE needs are good "independent" contacts who can give as unbiased an opinion as possible on the qualities of potential managers, not an overpaid sinecure.

 

 

 

We don't have a SD, don't know if we'll even get one anytime in the near future.

Anyone who may or may not have been "interviewed" for that post is just a manager in waiting. Someone told us so last week rightly or wrongly I couldn't say.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You're missing the point completely! We came down with Norwich and Charlton and barring unforeseen hiccoughs on the way they are gong back up again and we are not.

 

We've spent £3million or more on players, they have not.

 

Even without the points deduction we have 60, Norwich have 79 and Charlton have 67 so they are doing way better than us on no money and without the hoo-hah and razzmatazz.

 

We are NOT in the play-offs even without the pints deduction.

 

They've lost 6 each we've lost 8

 

We've won 16, Charlton have won 18 and Norwich have won 24

 

Just something to bear in mind next year when we will be the ONLY "BIG" TEAM in the Rs**hole called the 3rd Division.

 

Still think it's unfair to criticise the manager?

 

Been speaking to my mate who is a Norwich fan, and I was asking how come they're doing so well when they haven't spent any money. It turns out that they have been spending money, without having their squad decimated in the Summer. And not a bad amount of it either.

 

Just a bit annoyed by people on this site who talk sh!t about how much we've spent, how much others have spent, and how much better they've been doing. If someone else wants to do this for Leeds and Charlton then please do, and then add to the thread. We also started off with a far worse team, after losing a lot of our better players in the summer, so we had to spend to get back on a level playing field. Anyway, that Norwich team for you.

 

Russell Martin - 200k

Michael Theoklitos - Free

Michael Rose - Loan

Jens Berthel Askou - Free

Michael Nelson - Free

Zak Whitbread - 400k

Oli Johnson - £175k

Matthew Gill - Free

Owain Tudor Jones - £150k

Paul McVeigh - Free

Anthony McNamee - £275k

Grant Holt - £500k

 

= £1.7m

 

Anyway, just saying.

[up and away]

When I hear this I wonder why we need an SD at all. Does the owner have a say in the style of play? Does the CE have to pursue that, or is it left to the CE to decide, and then appoint an SD who will try to deliver it by telling you who to appoint as manager?

 

It all becomes a frightful mess, as responsibilities and accountability becomes so blurred. In fact the SD becomes the one with the CE's ear and the manager is left to be the one to field the brickbats from the fans.

 

Does Furguson need an SD to tell him how the side should play? No. So if you get a good manager, the SD job becomes almost redundant straight away, especially if the CE or Chairman does all the contract negotiations.

 

What a CE needs are good "independent" contacts who can give as unbiased an opinion as possible on the qualities of potential managers, not an overpaid sinecure.

 

What you have over looked is that managers like Ferguson, Wenger, even Redknapp ARE the sporting directors, who choose to farm out parts of their jobs to others. Ferguson rarely takes training whilst Wenger usually does. They naturally gravitate into that position by their success. Is there anyone daft enough to seriously propose that Redknapp is a coach? It's only when the coach / team manager does not have the skills / success that you require the extra position above him. And when that manager becomes succcessful, that sporting director just ends up as an aide to the manager.

[CB Fry]

Been speaking to my mate who is a Norwich fan, and I was asking how come they're doing so well when they haven't spent any money. It turns out that they have been spending money, without having their squad decimated in the Summer. And not a bad amount of it either.

 

Just a bit annoyed by people on this site who talk sh!t about how much we've spent, how much others have spent, and how much better they've been doing. If someone else wants to do this for Leeds and Charlton then please do, and then add to the thread. We also started off with a far worse team, after losing a lot of our better players in the summer, so we had to spend to get back on a level playing field. Anyway, that Norwich team for you.

 

Russell Martin - 200k

Michael Theoklitos - Free

Michael Rose - Loan

Jens Berthel Askou - Free

Michael Nelson - Free

Zak Whitbread - 400k

Oli Johnson - £175k

Matthew Gill - Free

Owain Tudor Jones - £150k

Paul McVeigh - Free

Anthony McNamee - £275k

Grant Holt - £500k

 

= £1.7m

 

Anyway, just saying.

 

 

£1.7m you say. £1.7million! One point seven whole million!

 

We've bought at least three players for a million each this season, and we easily spent One point seven whole million in January alone.

 

Add to that we kept our million pound goalkeeper and our million pound midfielder we already had, plus the likes of Lallana who could have gone for about £2m.

 

 

Anyway, just saying.

Edited 22 March, 2010 by CB Fry